CW Report - Application to change from TR to Non-O

[Jackson B]

Just thought I would report back my experience on Thursday 3 Sep for my first 90-day Non-O (retirement) visa at CW. I was a little concerned to be fully prepared, as I have never applied for a visa in-country before (switching from a multi-entry TR). I had been to CW two weeks earlier to get a list of their requirements, which had included 3 copies of just about every document. So I had three packs of documents ready. This turned out in the end not to be true - originals plus one copy were mostly taken, and the originals were handed back. Except for the passport and TM6 copies - she took all three, and two copies of the maps of my apartment location. Oddly, she did not take any copies of the TM30 notification, even though it was on their list.

 

Also not required were a complete bank statement (I had paid 200 bt for an official one); the passbook copy was sufficient. And the TransferWise receipts for the 800k were also not asked for. Only the credit advice slips from the bank seemed relevant as proof that the funds "came from abroad" (in reality they come from a TransferWise partner). And the official letter from the bank stating 800k was that day's balance.

 

There was no queue for Counter C. She explained that they had received very few applications, as many foreigners had left Thailand already. After collating the actual documents I needed and signing every page, she sent me to Counter L for the "free stamp" that regularises the Covid amnesty extension. I did not need to queue at Counter L, even though many people were. That part was straightforward: a simple form to fill in, then waited a few minutes for the stamp that certifies extension until September 26. I then went straight back to Counter C to finalise the application.

 

She looked at the stamp, took 2k fee from me, double-checked all the documents, gave me a receipt then told me to be ready for officers to call me and visit my apartment, some time in the next two weeks. I am wondering what they will look for. Anyone with experience of this?

 

I was told to come back in 15 days for the Non-O visa, although it was not clear whether this was certain, or whether it was still subject to approval.

 

So now I am supposed to maintain 800k before the extension in 90 days. I would like to move this 800k to another account for such a purpose as keeping it with a slightly higher interest rate. Anyone know if I am allowed to do this without breaking the "seasoning" rule? Also, is the extension fairly straightforward? I'm quite curious what the purpose of the initial 90-day visa is, and why they don't just give a 12-month visa to begin with. (Yeah, yeah, I know it's Thai logic, but still.)

 

One important point to note was that I was told that my application needed to be made by 11 September, as they would not be accepting applications after this, even if I was to get an additional extension beyond 26 September. I can see no justification for this, but she was adamant to get the application in sooner rather than later. They seem to be taking a lot of Non-B applications this week.

 

I hope that covers the main details... I would be grateful if more experienced members had some tips about the seasoning and the extension process. Cheers.

[ubonjoe]

They will be doing the visit to confirm you are living where you say you are. They may want to talk to the management of the apartment or others to confirm you are living there.

You could move the 800k baht into another account before the 2 months before the day you will be applying for the extension of stay. Be sure the account you move it to allows you to immediately withdraw the money without delay or penalty other loss of interest,

[JackThompson]

16 hours ago, Jackson B said:

told me to be ready for officers to call me and visit my apartment, some time in the next two weeks. I am wondering what they will look for. Anyone with experience of this?

 

I was told to come back in 15 days for the Non-O visa, although it was not clear whether this was certain, or whether it was still subject to approval.

Many were doing these at CW, to spite living elsewhere, because other offices were throwing up artificial-roadblocks. 

 

To do this at CW now, you must at least set up residence temporarily, while going through the 90-day and then 1-year permitted-stay applications.

 

This was their solution, as there is no oversight-mechanism in Thailand, to force all Immigration Offices to Follow the (bleeping) Rules.

 

Personally, I would not touch the money until after you get your 1-year - though the rules would allow a move if done more than 2-months before you apply for the 1-year extension.  Immigration can be so unpredictable - why give them an excuse?  As-is, you are SET To Go.  Whatever interest-loss is cheaper than getting stuck with agent-fees, later - just my POV.

[BritTim]

From experience, I know that applying for the visa at CW while temporarily resident in a hotel in Bangkok (telling immigration that you are in the process of looking for long term accommodation) seems to be accepted. At many immigration offices, they will not accept the application without a long term rental agreement.

[Jackson B]

13 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They will be doing the visit to confirm you are living where you say you are. They may want to talk to the management of the apartment or others to confirm you are living there.

You could move the 800k baht into another account before the 2 months before the day you will be applying for the extension of stay. Be sure the account you move it to allows you to immediately withdraw the money without delay or penalty other loss of interest,

Thanks Ubon Joe. I see there are some accounts that pay some interest, but they don't have a passbook as they are all online. My girlfriend thinks they won't accept an account without a passbook to prove the money is there on the day. I wonder what retirees normally do with their cash holding. Why do you think immediate withdrawals are important? Do you mean for emergencies?

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Jackson B said:

Why do you think immediate withdrawals are important? Do you mean for emergencies?

Immediate withdrawals without penalty (except loss of interest) are important because those are the rules Immigration applies. It is pointless to look for any other logic.

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, Jackson B said:

Thanks Ubon Joe. I see there are some accounts that pay some interest, but they don't have a passbook as they are all online. My girlfriend thinks they won't accept an account without a passbook to prove the money is there on the day. I wonder what retirees normally do with their cash holding. Why do you think immediate withdrawals are important? Do you mean for emergencies?

You must be able to withdraw money from your Fixed Deposit Account same as from a normal savings account. If there's a delay or waiting period immigration won't accept that kind of account. If you withdraw money from a FDA you will lose interest, and only get same interest as for a savings account. What bank do you have? Several banks FDA's do have a pass book, but often in another colour, for example Bangkok Banks FDA pass book is orange and the savings account pass book is dark blue.

[Jackson B]

I am curious what requirements there will be for the 12-month extension, assuming I granted the Non-O. Any complications ahead to watch out for? And is health insurance required?

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Jackson B said:

I am curious what requirements there will be for the 12-month extension, assuming I granted the Non-O. Any complications ahead to watch out for? And is health insurance required?

No health insurance is required. If applying based on 800k baht in your bank account, that money must be in the account for at least two months prior to the application for the extension. Overall, the extension is a more automatic process than the original visa application.

[Peter Denis]

On 9/5/2020 at 6:12 PM, Jackson B said:

One important point to note was that I was told that my application needed to be made by 11 September, as they would not be accepting applications after this, even if I was to get an additional extension beyond 26 September. I can see no justification for this, but she was adamant to get the application in sooner rather than later. They seem to be taking a lot of Non-B applications this week.

Thanks for the report.

In case you plan to move to another place, after the Immigration Visit (they only do this to check whether you are indeed living at the place you told), be aware that you can only do this in the Bangkok area because you need to do the 1-year extension of stay application at the same IO where you applied for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

After you got the 1-year permission to stay stamp in your passport, you are of course free to go live wherever you want in Thailand (and you have to file a TM-30 - or TM-27 - at the local IO that you moved there, so that that IO would become 'your' IO for all Immigration matters).

 

>> @ubonjoe - See Jackson's quote > I also don't see the sense why CW would not handle your Non Imm O Visa application anymore after 11 September.  When you have a valid permission to stay till after the Amnesty, and you apply with still 15 days permission to stay left, why would they refuse such application?

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

See Jackson's quote > I also don't see the sense why CW would not handle your Non Imm O Visa application anymore after 11 September.  When you have a valid permission to stay till after the Amnesty, and you apply with still 15 days permission to stay left, why would they refuse such application?

Possibly incorrect information or a misunderstanding.

The 11th is the last day if sill on a automatic extension until the 26th or the stamp stating it a permit to stay.

[Jackson B]

11 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks for the report.

In case you plan to move to another place, after the Immigration Visit (they only do this to check whether you are indeed living at the place you told), be aware that you can only do this in the Bangkok area because you need to do the 1-year extension of stay application at the same IO where you applied for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

After you got the 1-year permission to stay stamp in your passport, you are of course free to go live wherever you want in Thailand (and you have to file a TM-30 - or TM-27 - at the local IO that you moved there, so that that IO would become 'your' IO for all Immigration matters).

 

>> @ubonjoe - See Jackson's quote > I also don't see the sense why CW would not handle your Non Imm O Visa application anymore after 11 September.  When you have a valid permission to stay till after the Amnesty, and you apply with still 15 days permission to stay left, why would they refuse such application?

Thanks for that bit of advice. I was thinking of moving back to CM actually. I thought the landlord files the TM30 though. I had copies of the computer screen, but these were not taken by the IO.

[Jackson B]

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Possibly incorrect information or a misunderstanding.

The 11th is the last day if sill on a automatic extension until the 26th or the stamp stating it a permit to stay.

That's what I thought too. I raised the possibility of getting a 30-day extension first, but she warned me not to do that - in both Thai and English. Maybe since then the stance has softened, but I was not willing to wait to find out.

[Peter Denis]

9 hours ago, Jackson B said:

Thanks for that bit of advice. I was thinking of moving back to CM actually. I thought the landlord files the TM30 though. I had copies of the computer screen, but these were not taken by the IO.

Hi, I PM-ed you a Guideline document on TM-30 (there are many misunderstandings about that requirement).  The document also outlines how to register on the IO TM-30 website, which will allow you do file your TM-30 notifications on-line.

[eppic]

On 9/6/2020 at 4:38 PM, BritTim said:

From experience, I know that applying for the visa at CW while temporarily resident in a hotel in Bangkok (telling immigration that you are in the process of looking for long term accommodation) seems to be accepted. At many immigration offices, they will not accept the application without a long term rental agreement.

Just an FYI or two as I applied for Non-O conversion also at Chaengwattana (counter C1):

 

1. I was asked for long term rental agreement, which I provided

2. I was also asked for rental receipts for previous three months. Fortunately, I had been handed requirements when previously asking about a dependent visa for my wife (denied) so I had the receipts.

 

This means that currently at CW, per their official requirements (and as enforced on me) it would be impossible to to apply for Non-O (retirement) without both a rental agreement and three months of receipts.  The receipts was a completely new requirement for me and I can't say whether they will ask from everyone, but should definitely be brought if you have it.

[eppic]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:46 AM, ubonjoe said:

Possibly incorrect information or a misunderstanding.

The 11th is the last day if sill on a automatic extension until the 26th or the stamp stating it a permit to stay.

 

I was also told the Sep 11 deadline applied regardless of any potential extension at MTT.  Can't say for sure whether they were just trying to force an earlier application or whether Sep 11 is really a hard deadline, so I am doing my best t get my child's Non-Ed before the 11th (off to CW tomorrow).

 

Hopefully, just a scare tactic to get people in earlier.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by eppic

[Peter Denis]

9 hours ago, eppic said:

Just an FYI or two as I applied for Non-O conversion also at Chaengwattana (counter C1):

 

1. I was asked for long term rental agreement, which I provided

2. I was also asked for rental receipts for previous three months. Fortunately, I had been handed requirements when previously asking about a dependent visa for my wife (denied) so I had the receipts.

 

This means that currently at CW, per their official requirements (and as enforced on me) it would be impossible to to apply for Non-O (retirement) without both a rental agreement and three months of receipts.  The receipts was a completely new requirement for me and I can't say whether they will ask from everyone, but should definitely be brought if you have it.

Hi, thanks for the report!

The rules/regulations to apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa have some time ago been updated and indeed the following has been added >

Condo or House purchase agreement ; Location the house or condo map and a rental receipt Past three months.

Obviously, that clumsy wording opens the door for mis-interpretation, and unfortunately when IO can get it wrong, they will get it wrong.

You wrote > I was also asked for rental receipts for previous three months

It is ridiculous to ask for rental receipts of the previous 3 months, from someone that entered Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa, when those Visa entries only provide a 30 or 60 days permission of stay.

The intent of the requirement is that in case you are renting, that you show the rental agreement as well as evidence that you paid 3 months of rental fee in advance (most landlords want you to pay 3 months at the moment you sign the rental agreement).  The reason IO asks for that receipt is to avoid you submitting a 'fake' rental agreement, so the 3-month of rental fees you would have to pay in advance is evidence that the rental agreement is genuine.

But IO requiring rental receipts of the previous 3 months is an obvious mis-interpretation.  

It's just waiting now for those unfortunates that are denied their 90-day Non Imm O Visa because of this IO stupidity.

[Peter Denis]

9 hours ago, eppic said:

 

I was also told the Sep 11 deadline applied regardless of any potential extension at MTT.  Can't say for sure whether they were just trying to force an earlier application or whether Sep 11 is really a hard deadline, so I am doing my best t get my child's Non-Ed before the 11th (off to CW tomorrow).

 

Hopefully, just a scare tactic to get people in earlier.

When your current permission to stay is till 26 September (the Amnesty based extension expiry), and you want to apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa, indeed 11 Sept is the deadline because a 90-day Non Imm O Visa requires at least 15 days left on your permission to stay when applying for it. 

If you are married to a Thai national or have Thai dependent children and you did not yet use your once-per-entry 60-days extension of stay, you can of course still apply for that one until 26 Sept, and based on the valid permission to stay it will provide till 25 November, you can then apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa till 10 Nov.

 

[Jackson B]

17 hours ago, eppic said:

Just an FYI or two as I applied for Non-O conversion also at Chaengwattana (counter C1):

 

1. I was asked for long term rental agreement, which I provided

2. I was also asked for rental receipts for previous three months. Fortunately, I had been handed requirements when previously asking about a dependent visa for my wife (denied) so I had the receipts.

 

This means that currently at CW, per their official requirements (and as enforced on me) it would be impossible to to apply for Non-O (retirement) without both a rental agreement and three months of receipts.  The receipts was a completely new requirement for me and I can't say whether they will ask from everyone, but should definitely be brought if you have it.

Yes, that's one of their requirements. I asked my landlord for official receipts and they happily obliged.

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, Jackson B said:

Yes, that's one of their requirements. I asked my landlord for official receipts and they happily obliged.

See my post #17 with some comments on that 3-months of rental receipts requirement.

[Jackson B]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

See my post #17 with some comments on that 3-months of rental receipts requirement.

I don't know about that, as I've had the same place over a year. So I provided three past receipts, and one to cover the next month. Plus I provided the invoices for all four months. I only ever paid one month in advance. 

 

But, yes, I wondered how someone would get on if they had only just arrived.

[greggraham]

You didn't get an under consideration stamp right, just the receipt? When will you hear the result?

[Jackson B]

4 hours ago, greggraham said:

You didn't get an under consideration stamp right, just the receipt? When will you hear the result?

This time next week.

[greggraham]

@Jackson B and @eppic;

 

1) Did they put the free stamp (until Sept 26) in your passport? (I know they did for Jackson)
2) Did they give you any kind of under consideration stamp or just the receipt for the 2000THB?

[Jackson B]

On 9/12/2020 at 9:32 AM, greggraham said:

@Jackson B and @eppic;

 

1) Did they put the free stamp (until Sept 26) in your passport? (I know they did for Jackson)
2) Did they give you any kind of under consideration stamp or just the receipt for the 2000THB?

Just the receipt, but there was another stamp on the application form that she kept. It says: You have 90 days visa (Non-O retirement). We stamp on *date*. Don't leave of Thailand before stamp visa. Keep money in bank until you have 1 year visa. After 60 days start count today *date*. You can summit 1 year visa at Counter L. Before leave of Thailand you must summit Re-Entry permit for keep visa."

[greggraham]

Can anyone help?

 

So my local IO let me apply for a conversion from TR -> Amnesty (via a usual +30 and the embassy letter +30) -> Non-O Marriage, using the TM86.

 

She initially said because of the embassy letter extension it wasn't possible, but after we pleaded with her she said she would ask her boss, she called us the next day instructing us to submit an application. On top of the usual documents, we were also told to submit as much proof as possible of our original intent to leave to apply for the visa abroad. I also have a letter from the UK embassy asking Thai immigration if they would consider helping me apply for a Non-O extension.  

 

Submitted it on the 11th, the IO came in to meet us at 0730 bless her so we could get it done before the hordes arrived (we had been there 10+ hours that week waiting for a cancelled appointment or something - usually que system was booked over a week in advance). We didn't get any kind of stamps on that day, just paid the 2000BHT and got given a receipt and told to wait. 

 

I'm kind of confused what happens next, I think we are waiting for a phone call whether it went through or not. So;

1) will there be a home visit between now and the 25th or will that come once the conversion has been approved?

2) should I be concerned the IO gave us no stamps so far?
3) is the fact she accepted the application cause for us to assume it should/is likely to be approved? 

Edited September 14, 2020 by greggraham

[Jackson B]

2 hours ago, greggraham said:

Can anyone help?

 

So my local IO let me apply for a conversion from TR -> Amnesty (via a usual +30 and the embassy letter +30) -> Non-O Marriage, using the TM86.

 

She initially said because of the embassy letter extension it wasn't possible, but after we pleaded with her she said she would ask her boss, she called us the next day instructing us to submit an application. On top of the usual documents, we were also told to submit as much proof as possible of our original intent to leave to apply for the visa abroad. I also have a letter from the UK embassy asking Thai immigration if they would consider helping me apply for a Non-O extension.  

 

Submitted it on the 11th, the IO came in to meet us at 0730 bless her so we could get it done before the hordes arrived (we had been there 10+ hours that week waiting for a cancelled appointment or something - usually que system was booked over a week in advance). We didn't get any kind of stamps on that day, just paid the 2000BHT and got given a receipt and told to wait. 

 

I'm kind of confused what happens next, I think we are waiting for a phone call whether it went through or not. So;

1) will there be a home visit between now and the 25th or will that come once the conversion has been approved?

2) should I be concerned the IO gave us no stamps so far?
3) is the fact she accepted the application cause for us to assume it should/is likely to be approved? 

I'm guessing it's not the CW office.

 

1) Yes they will visit to confirm your residence as part of the approval process. They visited me after 3 business days. If you are applying for marriage visa, then they will photograph you holding the marriage certificate. 

 

2) I got the regularising stamp to the 26th. That's all. And the receipt.

 

3) I think that's a reasonable assumption, providing the funds are there in your account, and shown to have "come from" abroad. Mine is a retirement O, so you might have different paperwork, but it sounds positive so far.

[greggraham]

Thanks pal, not CW no. A bit concerned about the lack of regularising stamp, but the IO was aware of its existence.

 

Any other comments @ubonjoe ?

[Peter Denis]

3 hours ago, greggraham said:

...

3) is the fact she accepted the application cause for us to assume it should/is likely to be approved? 

3 - The fact that the IO accepted the 2000 THB extension application fee, makes your application as good as certain 'accepted' but it still needs to go through the admin tredmill.

[LazySlipper]

On 9/5/2020 at 11:12 PM, Jackson B said:

And the TransferWise receipts for the 800k were also not asked for. Only the credit advice slips from the bank seemed relevant as proof that the funds "came from abroad" (in reality they come from a TransferWise partner). And the official letter from the bank stating 800k was that day's balance.

 

Let me get this straight. You have to show that the 800 000 came from abroad?

 

What if you been working here for years and saved the money?

 

What if you use some of the money and top off when the time comes?

Do you have to show proof that the money is from abroad??

 

Seems you might be giving misleading information.