To Own A Petrol Station & 7-eleven

[prtrolhead]

My wife has land on a bussy road in Buriram. How can I build a petrol station with a 7-Eleven store on the land and roughly how much will this cost - I have about 20Million Baht to invest. 

I also want to know if I can work in the fuel station and get a work permit and how to find people to build the station.

[blizzard]

lol..................7--11 very capable of acquiring their own land.

like i said be4 to another , if you need to ask these questions, fougettabboutit!

[mackayae]

Check the PTT Thailand website. They have an application form for service station dealership (in Thai). Investment starts at 3-5 million baht. They have 3 options: company own dealer operate; joint venture; dealer own dealer operate. They offer station design and job training. PTT already has a joint venture with 7-11, so that fits your needs. Break even period: 5 years. Good luck.

Edited April 27, 2007 by mackayae

[blizzard]

i grduatted from a respected buznit college in good ole usa.

let me get this straight, 7-11 great to b partners with, of course you have to pay arm and leg to be connected with them. so you want this guy to partner up with a company who already is partnered up with 7-11.

this guy will in effect be paying royalties to 2 companies instead of the usual one.

he would be better off opening a thai massage shop on sukhumvit in soi 4 area. he have mut greater chance for losing less money.

[think_too_mut]

Where are now those doomsayers to see that investment sentiment in Thailand is far from being shaken?

[prtrolhead]

Thank you Mackayae, I've had the wife read out the info on PTT website and she has tried to explained to me about the various plans they offer but I will need a better translation to understand it properly.

Blizzard seems to think 7-Elven is a bad deal but if I opened an independant mini-mart, getting supplies would be a problem. Buriram is not Bangkok there are no Makro stores close by or within reasonable distance. As for partnering off with a fuel supplier: the facts are I have to, I cannot produce my own fuels.

I am still a bit confused as to the fact if I can work in the fuel station or get a work permit and would appriciate some constructive advise on this

[soundman]

My wife opened a PTT service petrol station about ten years ago. The deal back then was 8,000,000 Baht for a 16 filling head station with service depot & car wash. You can also have it built by your own builders, however, the PTT engineers will check on every detail meeting spec. My wife went this route, paid cash for eveything, & saved about 1,000,000 Baht.

If you didn't want to front the cash to build the station, PTT would build it for free, take your land as security, & make you sign a twenty year contract to buy a miniumum of 60,000 litres of fuel from PTT per month. If you defaulted on this contract, PTT would claim your land. 60,000 litres does not sound like much, however, thesedays we generally buy most of our fuel these days from private wholesalers, not from PTT, as we generally get a price that is 35 Satang cheaper.

As far as 7/11 is concerened, they are affiliated with PTT. They probably will not be very enthusiastic to build on other service station brands. Cost for the franchise is 3,000,000 Baht for a "middle of the road" sized store. If you have a good position, you can leave it as a company run (CPF) business, and collect a rent based on a % of sales. This is the way my wife has gone with the 7/11 in her petrol station. We have an option to buy the 7/11 at any time for 3,000,000 Baht.

Profitability. Sales of petrol - about 30 satang per litre.

7/11 - Rent about 50,000 Baht per month on sales of about 60,000B per day.

Rental of other small business's set up on the land - eg car wash, service centre, restaurants, small retail outlets - about 50,000 per month.

As to falang working in these business's, you'de have to check the "resticted activities" list. I am fairly sure the petroleum retailing industry falls somewhere in there. Not a problem though. If PTT & 7/11 like your land (location), & your wife has a business & education background, I am sure the whole lot could be put in your wife's name. (up to you in this scenario - watch your cash, 20 mil is a lot of money to trust to someone else).

Cheers,

Soundman.

Edited April 28, 2007 by soundman

[Clipped]

sell LPG...and build little one story shop houses for mechanics to rent out, to quicken your return, if you can find someone that has worked at a 7-11(for a specified period of time), they are entitled to start up a new location for 400,000 baht.

[prtrolhead]

thanks Soundman great advise. Now I think I might do as your wife did and build the fuelstation and rent out the mini-mart service area and car wash. we have 6 rai on road front so theoretically we could have a big fuel station.

We have had some drawings and a survay made and as the land is fairly solid there so it fairly straight forward to build but laying the pipes and fuel tanks needs specialist. Do you know if any in Buriram or wolud I need to source someone from Bangkok or will PTT advise on that

[blizzard]

believe me dude if there was money to be made on your wifes land location, somebody would already be making it.

there must be a reason the big boys dont invest there. one good reason might be aint money to be made there.

500000$, if its no big deal to you go with it to impress your wife, tosucceed in business you have to put yourself in position to succeed.

hmmm you dont know how to start, not good.

the companies you dealing with want you to put up the money and take the risk, if you dont meet their minimums you lose property and all you invested, not good

you may have to put everything in your wifes name, really really not good.

you got to remember your partners will be obliging to you, as its your money at risk, not theirs.

Edited April 28, 2007 by blizzard

[LoveDaBlues]

believe me dude if there was money to be made on your wifes land location, somebody would already be making it.

there must be a reason the big boys dont invest there. one good reason might be aint money to be made there.

I'm sure some biz-wiz like yourself said the same thing to soundman's wife 10 years ago.

BTW, who are the "big boys", little man?

[blizzard]

soundmans wife sounded like she knew what she was doing. not same same. this guy seems cluless.

he mustve made his money another way.

[prtrolhead]

soundmans wife sounded like she knew what she was doing. not same same. this guy seems cluless.

he mustve made his money another way.

Blizzard, I appricate your worries, its very touching.

However, my Thai wife and I are very happy together and have been for nearly 16 years so I dont think you need to show so much concern.

In the UK I owned two filling stations and a Land Rover dealership before selling them off 2 years ago.

I am now bored from not doing anything here in Buriram, so this would be hobby, I dont care if its makes much money or not - Its something to do.

My sittuation is basically simple, I dont read Thai and there is very little information available on the subject in Buriram.

This Forum has provided me with very important information and I appriciate the effort of Soundman, Clipped and Makayae.

I did not graduate from your respected buznit college, but one thing is very clear to me and that is to respect all who try and do something constructive.

[LoveDaBlues]

soundmans wife sounded like she knew what she was doing. not same same. this guy seems cluless.

he mustve made his money another way.

Blizzard, I appricate your worries, its very touching.

However, my Thai wife and I are very happy together and have been for nearly 16 years so I dont think you need to show so much concern.

In the UK I owned two filling stations and a Land Rover dealership before selling them off 2 years ago.

I am now bored from not doing anything here in Buriram, so this would be hobby, I dont care if its makes much money or not - Its something to do.

My sittuation is basically simple, I dont read Thai and there is very little information available on the subject in Buriram.

This Forum has provided me with very important information and I appriciate the effort of Soundman, Clipped and Makayae.

I did not graduate from your respected buznit college, but one thing is very clear to me and that is to respect all who try and do something constructive.

hmmmmm........methinks blizzard needs to do a little backpedaling........

[blizzard]

if its only a hooby to him go for it, what do i know. actually i dont know shit about doing buznit in thailand.....lol.

still he going to invest a lot of money(to most) and do buznit in a country he is unfamiliar with. and in a buszit notoriously known for working on razor thin margins.

usually boredom not high on the list why someone should start a bisnet.........lol.

Edited April 28, 2007 by blizzard

[fxm88]

Before investing a lot, why don't you test the waters by setting up a small operation? Hand-pumping the petrol from a barrel? Or just filling up some bottles (the Fanta bottles seem most popular) and putting them on a shelf near the road? Remember, the 3 most important factors in running a successful petrol station are: location, location, and location.

[blizzard]

i didnt want to be rude but i was thinking something similar, start small.

have your wife work pumping gas for 2 years and if she is good at it and doesnt complain then you might have something.

after all you only as good as your employees are. and she will be your number 1 employee.

and if thing go bad you can come on here asking for good divorce lawyer....lol

all kidding aside........lol. if you can run a business well get your ass to bangkok and open up a taco bell near soi 4. thats worth a shot. enuff people coming and going and we would have something besides mcdonald and kfc.

Edited April 28, 2007 by blizzard

[Doro22]

Blizzard.

"all kidding aside........lol. if you can run a business well get your ass to bangkok and open up a taco bell near soi 4. thats worth a shot. enuff people coming and going and we would have something besides mcdonald and kfc".

Why haven´t the "big boys" at Yum! thought about this?

..:"believe me dude if there was money to be made on your wifes land location, somebody would already be making it.

there must be a reason the big boys dont invest there. one good reason might be aint money to be made there".

[blizzard]

dont really have a good answer.......lol.maybe yum did taco test with middle income thais and the results werent encouraging.

but this guys a maverick and has experience running a busnit. he could show em.

running a petrol station in the middle of nowhere seems silly.

ps. one hint. make it against company policy for thais to pick nose in front of paying customers. this should help bottom line.

[LoveDaBlues]

dont really have a good answer.......lol.maybe yum did taco test with middle income thais and the results werent encouraging.

but this guys a maverick and has experience running a busnit. he could show em.

running a petrol station in the middle of nowhere seems silly.

ps. one hint. make it against company policy for thais to pick nose in front of paying customers. this should help bottom line.

Actually, they do pretty well as a lot of the locals (like my wife's family) have to routinely travel long distances in their business. Not silly at all. BTW, what great busnit do you have going?

[blizzard]

just becoz you use a business doesnt mean they are a moneymaker. petrol station all over the whole ###### planet.

[peteinCM]

prtrolhead, you are a braver man than I am in giving specific details about your proposed business venture on this forum. If you listened to many of the members on Thai Visa you would quickly learn that:

1. No farang can succeed in business in LOS, and every farang business is doomed to failure

2. Every Thai person is out to rip off and to cheat every farang they meet (and all other Thais as well)

3. Farang should never in any circumstances marry or be friends with any Thai person because of #2--even Thai marriage partners of 20 years are just looking at the long view and are just biding time to take all of your money or to kill you in your sleep (or both)

4. Thailand is an awful backwater country run by people who can't even wipe their own noses, and nothing in Thailand works right, runs on time, or meets the same high standards as their home countries

5. Thais are ungrateful louts who have no business trying to restrict or manage the investment, travel, or residency of foreigners within Thailand (the bloody awful cheek)

6. Thais have no real understanding of Buddhism or religion in general and any religious hocus pocus in which they engage is all superstitious drivel practised by poor illiterates

7. Thai nationalism and pride in their country is a misguided notion by an insular and ignorant people who have no desire to embrace globalazition and the new world economy, and Thais should be ashamed of their pride in their country and of their nationalism

8. In the very, very near future, it will be doomsday for Thailand, and the economy will be destroyed, the tourists will no longer come to Thailand, there will be 50% unemployment, there will be civil war and rioting in the streets, and Thais will have to come begging on their knees to get the white man to return to their country and make everything all right

9. Thaskin and Surayad (or is it Sonthi?) share the role of the Antichrist (they alternate days) and all the woes of Thailand can be laid at their feet

It seems many people posting on this business forum have either failed in their business in Thailand (and probably are not the best people to ask for advice) or have never run any business in Thailand. I think Soundman and Greg from Sunbelt are two of the few successful businessmen posting on this forum. I guess most successful farang businessmen in LOS are too busy running their businesses to spend much time on Internet forums.

Frankly, I know of a great number of farang who have done well for themselves on their Thai business ventures. Almost all of them have already had business success in their choosen field before opening a similar business in LOS, and they almost all have good Thai partners. It sounds like you have both of these. I have nothing of value to add to your queries as I have no experience with the grocery retail business or the gas business. However, good luck to you, and forgive me for hijacking your thread with my little list of observations.

[LoveDaBlues]

just becoz you use a business doesnt mean they are a moneymaker. petrol station all over the whole ###### planet.

exactly; many gas stations. and a lot of them do make money. the station in my wife's village (boonies) supports the owner and his family. been there since my wife was a little girl.

still waiting for the fantastic biz you have here; you seem to know so much about busnit in Thailand.

[gjones]

PeteinCM is correct, I know of a lot of falangs that have made good decent and honest business here in Thailand and I know one guy who who lives 300 meters from my home and he builds fuel service stations for PTT though I think his field is in CNG or NGV.

His name is Glyn Jones (no relation) and the company is based on Srinakarin Rd - Take a look at this link ------ http://www.powergreenalliance.com/industry.htm

and good luck

[blizzard]

mr blu u missing the point. im trying to help the gentlemaan.

where is it said anywhere that a good reason to open a petrol station is to cure boredom.

i said i dont know s h i t e about doing busnit in thailand. but i remember my college professor telling me opening busnit coz you is bored is not a good idea......etc etc etc.

[LoveDaBlues]

prtrolhead, you are a braver man than I am in giving specific details about your proposed business venture on this forum. If you listened to many of the members on Thai Visa you would quickly learn that:

1. No farang can succeed in business in LOS, and every farang business is doomed to failure

2. Every Thai person is out to rip off and to cheat every farang they meet (and all other Thais as well)

3. Farang should never in any circumstances marry or be friends with any Thai person because of #2--even Thai marriage partners of 20 years are just looking at the long view and are just biding time to take all of your money or to kill you in your sleep (or both)

4. Thailand is an awful backwater country run by people who can't even wipe their own noses, and nothing in Thailand works right, runs on time, or meets the same high standards as their home countries

5. Thais are ungrateful louts who have no business trying to restrict or manage the investment, travel, or residency of foreigners within Thailand (the bloody awful cheek)

6. Thais have no real understanding of Buddhism or religion in general and any religious hocus pocus in which they engage is all superstitious drivel practised by poor illiterates

7. Thai nationalism and pride in their country is a misguided notion by an insular and ignorant people who have no desire to embrace globalazition and the new world economy, and Thais should be ashamed of their pride in their country and of their nationalism

8. In the very, very near future, it will be doomsday for Thailand, and the economy will be destroyed, the tourists will no longer come to Thailand, there will be 50% unemployment, there will be civil war and rioting in the streets, and Thais will have to come begging on their knees to get the white man to return to their country and make everything all right

9. Thaskin and Surayad (or is it Sonthi?) share the role of the Antichrist (they alternate days) and all the woes of Thailand can be laid at their feet

It seems many people posting on this business forum have either failed in their business in Thailand (and probably are not the best people to ask for advice) or have never run any business in Thailand. I think Soundman and Greg from Sunbelt are two of the few successful businessmen posting on this forum. I guess most successful farang businessmen in LOS are too busy running their businesses to spend much time on Internet forums.

Frankly, I know of a great number of farang who have done well for themselves on their Thai business ventures. Almost all of them have already had business success in their choosen field before opening a similar business in LOS, and they almost all have good Thai partners. It sounds like you have both of these. I have nothing of value to add to your queries as I have no experience with the grocery retail business or the gas business. However, good luck to you, and forgive me for hijacking your thread with my little list of observations.

I too want to wish you good luck. If your land is truly at a busy location I believe you will succeed.

I started a small business (or is it busnit?) for the wife's family and the profits are running at 110%. Don't want to mention the nature of the business as I am planning on expanding to a larger market and don't want to give anyone ideas.

Business here is doable; a lot of people who post here have failed and of course if they can't do it nobody can.

[LoveDaBlues]

mr blu u missing the point. im trying to help the gentlemaan.

where is it said anywhere that a good reason to open a petrol station is to cure boredom.

i said i dont know s h i t e about doing busnit in thailand. but i remember my college professor telling me opening busnit coz you is bored is not a good idea......etc etc etc.

I guess since your 'college professor' said it it must be true.

Maybe you heard this old saying....."those that can't do; teach."

Actually, a lot of people fight boredom by working. By starting a business you get the satisfaction of watching your baby grow and mature. Some people like/need to keep busy; keep their hours filled doing something. Fortunately, I'm quite good at doing nothing.......

[soundman]

thanks Soundman great advise. Now I think I might do as your wife did and build the fuelstation and rent out the mini-mart service area and car wash. we have 6 rai on road front so theoretically we could have a big fuel station.

We have had some drawings and a survay made and as the land is fairly solid there so it fairly straight forward to build but laying the pipes and fuel tanks needs specialist. Do you know if any in Buriram or wolud I need to source someone from Bangkok or will PTT advise on that

Believe it or not, the best people to ask about your location will be the sales staff for the petrol station brand concerned. They will have done extensive surveys of all areas in Thailand. If the loaction is suitable, they will be very eager to sell you a package, providing some "personal" criteria are met, such as previous experience, education etc.

These days the company sales people are not at all interested in selling a package that is doomed to failure. Bad look for the brand. They want to set up business's that will be still operating in 20 years time. Much more profit for the parent company.

If you have a good location, but lack the experteese, the sales staff could be of some assistance in helping you find an appropriate partner. Probably someone who allready owns another outlet elsewhere. If you go down this route, pls. employ the services of a lawyer who knows what they are doing.

As to the actual profitability of the petrol station. Selling petrol will basically cover the costs of the whole operation & upkeep etc. You will do well to sell more than 200,000 litres per month. (unless you strike it lucky along a major trucking route with no other stations near by).

All the profit comes from rental & or retailing.

6 Rai of land will be a little on the smallish side, but no probs. Should be able to fit a sixteen head filler, office, car wash, service centre, 7/11, Staff housing, coffee shop, & bout 10 - 15 smaller type shop areas, as well as parking facilities for maybe 30 vehicles. Forget about large truck facilities on 6 rai.

Hope this is some help.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[blizzard]

now this guy sounds like a sound man.

im thinking to meself how you gonna make money only selling petrol and 10 baht pepsi colas.

to actually make money you pretty much got to develop a shopping center.

i ve been on a visa run to cambodia and if i were running the show id stop at a place that has it all instead of one that doesnt.

hey hey, i know my buznit.

[Arkady]

My wife has land on a bussy road in Buriram. How can I build a petrol station with a 7-Eleven store on the land and roughly how much will this cost - I have about 20Million Baht to invest. 

I also want to know if I can work in the fuel station and get a work permit and how to find people to build the station.

I see no reason why you should not get a work permit as managing director of the company as it will be a reasonably substantial investment by Thai standards and will hire several people. You would obviously not be able fill tanks or work in the convenience store but could be around. Even if you did it as a sole proprietorship in your wife's name, it would theoretically be possible but I imagine harder. I think you might do better with a company anyway because a company can depreciate the investment (other than the land purchase) against tax, while a sole proprietorship is not allowed to expense depreciation. Deciding how to structure a company in view of the Foreign Business Act is a topic for another thread but, if you are happy with your wife holding a majority of the shares, it should be doable. I don't know anything about filling stations but have looked into 7-11 franchises and at the Thai listed company (CP7-11) and think it is a good business here. B2.85 million is the current price for a franchise in Bkk, of which B1 million is a deposit. If you own the store, I think you can rent it to them and operate the franchise or just rent it out. If sales are B50-60k a day which is I think think close to the average, you might do better operating it yourself but your wife would have to commit to supervising it closely. The way they operate is that they sign a 10 year contract for the store rental. They fit it out from the franchise fee you pay them and they take 46% of the profit before tax and owner's remuneration. If you are in breach of contract, they take the B1 million deposit but I would imagine you have to screw up badly to do that, or just want to discontinue the business. If the land is in a good location, it should work, if you and your wife are willing to control all aspects of the construction and operations closely. Admittedly there are a lot of naive farangs who open up hopeless businesses or just get ripped off but there are also a lot of doomsayers here who like to say it's virtually impossible for a farang to start a profitable business in Thailand.