How to give a condo to a non Thai ?

[alyx]

Hey 

 

I have read a few threads regarding the matter (info dates back to 2017) and also witnessed some difficult situations when it comes to inheritance.

 

I am fully aware that, unless funds are transferred from abroad there is no way to offer a property to a non Thai.

 

I am also aware of the difficult path to inheritance: before one of my friend's brother died, they thought they had it covered as they had made a will giving their property to each other. To make it easier they had sold 50% of the condo's "shares" to each other making them owners. When one of them died, the brother had to go to court to obtain recognition of the will. Unfortunately only two options were given to him: a) inherit and sell it within a year b) keep the deed as it is therefore keep both names on the title with the possibility to sell it later. Hadn't they acquired each 50% of the property my friend would have been left with no option but sell it as fast as he could. It is to be noted that each of the brother resided in Thailand making the process smoother.

So, I have answered my question: under these circumstances that is impossible thanks to the less than friendly, towards foreigners, condominium act.

 

Back to my case: I am looking at the possibility to sell my condo to my company. I understand that it will make it fall out of the foreigner quota but Ia m really looking at the dangers of such a transaction. I have had this company for 20 years and it is well managed / controlled so I am really not asking about the possibility that someone sells the place without my knowledge as this is near to impossible but I am eventually willing to take the risk.

 

What are the legal problems?

Is there another solution such as a power of attorney ? (Correct me if I am wrong: that POA could not come in effect in case of my death or at least until the event is known to the land department)

Would that mean that I am losing the yellow book as well as the pink ID card if I were to do so ?

Would that mean that I would not be able to offer proof of residence ?

Feel free to complete the list ????

 

Thank you for any thoughtful insight 

[HampiK]

First I don't understand why this brother had to sell the condo? That would be interesting? Or you mean he only can receive the condo if he could show they money for the second condo in his name?

 

About if you sell your condo to your company.. you still can keep the yellow book and the pink ID, as this is no prove of ownership. It's prove of your residence. Maybe in your yellow book the content has to be changed, as your named at the moment as owner.. after you sell the condo you should be named as residence or whatever word they used if the condo is not yours.

 

So actually I would be interested in more details why the court told your friends brother to sell. Here is the problem to understand the problem 100% and also check there is no misunderstanding of some points. Let's see of some other posters opinion, maybe someone which some knowledge about this comes in as well.

 

My guess is, that they only want see a sell so they can receive the property tax on the condo.
But I think this is the same for Thais. about 2 years ago, when they sell tax was lowered a lot for a short time of period, I know a few Thais who changed the name of houses to their children, as it was cheaper that time. For Thais they only not need proof of money. but still need to pay the sell tax when a property changed name. So Maybe it's the same problem. and in that case mean your brother have to buy the propertiy so they receive this tax (all that they want from foreigner and thai)... 

[Peterw42]

OP, Its unclear what your question is and what you want to achieve. Yes you can sell your condo to your company, normal transfer fees would apply.

You only ever own 49% of a Thai company.

If you already own a foreign title condo, there is no real advantage in transferring it to a company.

Foreigners usually only use a company structure to own a Thai title condo, and then only 49%, a trusted Thai friend or wife owns the other 51%.

POA doesn't operate after death.

Yellow book has nothing to do with ownership, a yellow book is issued for a property and if you reside in that property you get listed in that yellow book and get a pink ID with those address details. 

If you no longer reside in a property, you are no longer listed in the yellow book, you would then need to be in a yellow book for your new residence.

 

Maybe explain the current ownership structure of your condo and what you want to achieve, will to family or friend etc.

[blackcab]

44 minutes ago, alyx said:

What are the legal problems?

Is there another solution such as a power of attorney ? (Correct me if I am wrong: that POA could not come in effect in case of my death or at least until the event is known to the land department)

Would that mean that I am losing the yellow book as well as the pink ID card if I were to do so ?

Would that mean that I would not be able to offer proof of residence ?

 

Power of Attorney: The land office only recognise an authority that is given using their own specific form. Nothing else is acceptable. Further, the form will only be accepted if it is dated within the last month, and it would not be valid after you die.

 

Yellow Book: This would remain valid, as registration in a blue or yellow book has nothing to do with ownership of the property once the registration has been made. The same for the pink ID card.

 

Proof of Residence: You would need a lease from the limited company, signed by the number of directors required to bind the company. That lease might say that the rental price included water, electric, internet, government taxes, common fees, maintenance and insurance (think serviced condo) in which case you could change all of the utilities to the name of the company. The same for the common fees, etc. All of these expenses would then become legitimate deductible expenditure that the company could enter into it's accounts.

 

It's a bit of effort getting everything changed into the company name, but if your corporate tax situation warrants it then once it's done it works very well.

 

Land and building tax: As a company owned property the condo would be subject to a 3 per cent tax rate based on its assessed value. This is a deductible expense however.

[LukKrueng]

10 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Foreigners usually only use a company structure to own a Thai title condo

There is no such thing as Thai title condo / foreign title condo. In each condo building foreigners can own up to 49% of the units. Every time a foreigner wants to buy a condo unit (either from Thai or foreign owner) a letter from the condo juristic person must be issued to show current state of the building. It can happen that at some point in time more than 49% of the units are owned by foreigners, so the next foreigner that wants to buy a unit from a foreign - he won't be allowed. This might be the situation of the OP. possibly at the time he wanted to transfer the deed to his name there were more than 49% foreign owned units, so none can be added (amending the title deed is a transaction which effects the status of condo units ownership) so it was suggested to him to keep the status quo or to sell to a Thai. 

[Peterw42]

41 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no such thing as Thai title condo / foreign title condo. In each condo building foreigners can own up to 49% of the units. Every time a foreigner wants to buy a condo unit (either from Thai or foreign owner) a letter from the condo juristic person must be issued to show current state of the building. It can happen that at some point in time more than 49% of the units are owned by foreigners, so the next foreigner that wants to buy a unit from a foreign - he won't be allowed. This might be the situation of the OP. possibly at the time he wanted to transfer the deed to his name there were more than 49% foreign owned units, so none can be added (amending the title deed is a transaction which effects the status of condo units ownership) so it was suggested to him to keep the status quo or to sell to a Thai. 

Yes, I was only using the term for ease of explanation. 

[Delight]

 It seems to me that  the OP wishes to be in a position to bequeath his condo.

 

It is a simple procedure if the condo is in  company.

 

Transfer fees will have to be paid -as stated by others.

 

Once   complete it is a simple matter of transferring the only assets that the OP owns(in relation to this topic) and that is his shares and his 100% voting rights.

This needs to be done whilst the OP is still alive.

[supersomchai]

On 9/23/2020 at 12:37 PM, LukKrueng said:

There is no such thing as Thai title condo / foreign title condo. In each condo building foreigners can own up to 49% of the units. Every time a foreigner wants to buy a condo unit (either from Thai or foreign owner) a letter from the condo juristic person must be issued to show current state of the building. It can happen that at some point in time more than 49% of the units are owned by foreigners, so the next foreigner that wants to buy a unit from a foreign - he won't be allowed. This might be the situation of the OP. possibly at the time he wanted to transfer the deed to his name there were more than 49% foreign owned units, so none can be added (amending the title deed is a transaction which effects the status of condo units ownership) so it was suggested to him to keep the status quo or to sell to a Thai. 

How is it possible for more than %49 of a condos units to be owned by foreigners?

i could understand it going below %49 

when a foreigner died and his unit was sold to a thai.

 

[LukKrueng]

9 hours ago, supersomchai said:

How is it possible for more than %49 of a condos units to be owned by foreigners?

i could understand it going below %49 

when a foreigner died and his unit was sold to a thai.

 

Seems there is a misconception of the 51/49% issue. There is NO Thai/Foreign quota, nor designated Thai/Foreign units. There is only a limit of 49% foreign owned units. So basically anyone can buy any unit that is up for sale, but if a foreigner wants to buy a unit, the condo management have to check the CURRENT status of ownership, and if at the time of checking the status there are no more then 49% foreign owned units they will issue a formal letter stating this fact. Armed with this letter and all other needed documents buyer and seller go to the land department and transfer ownership. 

The land department does not keep a record or balance of Thai/Foreign ownership of each condo building. That's done by the condo juristic person. 

After transferring the ownership the new owner will notify the juristic person he/she is the new legal owner of the unit.

However it might take some time from issuance of the first letter to the completion of process and update of the juristic person records.

During this time if other people request such a letter, the juristic person will issue, as the records have not been updated yet. This can create a situation that more than 49% of the units are owned by foreigners. It is not very common, but it happens. That is why this letter is needed even when a foreigner owner sells to another foreigner.

 

 

[Susco]

29 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

There is NO Thai/Foreign quota, nor designated Thai/Foreign units. There is only a limit of 49% foreign owned units. So basically anyone can buy any unit that is up for sale, but if a foreigner wants to buy a unit, the condo management have to check the CURRENT status of ownership, and if at the time of checking the status there are no more then 49% foreign owned units

 

 I suggest if you want to correct others, you first get your facts correct first.

 

Foreign quota is based on square meter, not on units.

 

49% of the total commercial space can be owned by foreigners, not 49% of the units

 

https://www.thailand-property-gate.com/legal-facts-and-information/what-means-foreigner-quota/

 

Foreigners can buy a condo only under their own names if it the condo unit can be sold under “foreigner quota”. This means, that within a condominium building, 49% of all units resp. of the total surface area of this particular building, can be sold to foreigners.

[LukKrueng]

2 hours ago, Susco said:

 

 I suggest if you want to correct others, you first get your facts correct first.

 

Foreign quota is based on square meter, not on units.

 

49% of the total commercial space can be owned by foreigners, not 49% of the units

 

https://www.thailand-property-gate.com/legal-facts-and-information/what-means-foreigner-quota/

 

Foreigners can buy a condo only under their own names if it the condo unit can be sold under “foreigner quota”. This means, that within a condominium building, 49% of all units resp. of the total surface area of this particular building, can be sold to foreigners.

Thank you for the correction.

So basically the only point I was not correct was how the 49% is measured (units or area) right? If so, it doesn't really change what I was saying as for how it can happen that more than 49% is owned by foreigners, and that was the actual point.