Anyone Know Structural Engineer in Phibun Mangsahan District Ubon

[Dazinoz]

Hi. My new girlfriend started building a new house for her parents in her village. As probably very common there was no plans and built by "experienced" person. From photos there is basically 15 steel posts in the ground with a roof area. With the latest storm and heavy rains her parents are calling her (she is currently in Chiang Mai) concerned that it may fall down. Questioning her it is apparent only a very small amount concrete used on posts. She wants to pour concrete slab but I am concerned that if post not solid enough slab may not be strong enough to support posts in strong winds.

 

I would like a structural engineer to maybe dig around one post and see if suitable and if not advise as to what is needed. I contacted one in Ubon Ratchithani city but not interested.

 

If anyone knows of one in the Phibun Mangsahan District please let me know.

[MJCM]

When we build our new house, we had to have the house plan checked over by the local Tessabaan, which then signed off on the House Plans and I believe that guy was a Structural Engineer.

 

So maybe it's a good idea to have your girlfriend contact the local Tessabaan and maybe they can help?

 

In Thai Tessaban is เทศบาล

[Dazinoz]

19 minutes ago, MJCM said:

When we build our new house, we had to have the house plan checked over by the local Tessabaan, which then signed off on the House Plans and I believe that guy was a Structural Engineer.

 

So maybe it's a good idea to have your girlfriend contact the local Tessabaan and maybe they can help?

 

In Thai Tessaban is เทศบาล

The engineer I contacted in Ubon wanted to see the plans. I just laughed and said the small amount already built in small village by local "experienced" guy and no plans.

 

But I see what you mean about they maybe able to tell me of someone. Thanks for the input.

[CGW]

On 10/2/2020 at 10:36 AM, Dazinoz said:

I would like a structural engineer to maybe dig around one post and see if suitable and if not advise as to what is needed. I contacted one in Ubon Ratchithani city but not interested.

Good luck finding anyone that would want to attach their name to this, it has all the ingredients for a future disaster!

[Dazinoz]

35 minutes ago, CGW said:

Good luck finding anyone that would want to attach their name to this, it has all the ingredients for a future disaster!

Yes I agree. Don't really have to attach name but I just want someone to look at it and say you need to do this "....." so I as can get fixed so won't be a future disaster.

[CGW]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

Yes I agree. Don't really have to attach name but I just want someone to look at it and say you need to do this "....." so I as can get fixed so won't be a future disaster.

I'm an engineer, free advice - tear it down and start again! ????

Anonymous 

[Dazinoz]

15 minutes ago, CGW said:

I'm an engineer, free advice - tear it down and start again! ????

Anonymous 

Obviously you don't have much idea of Thai logic.....will NEVER happen.

 

Thanks for your very helpful input. Seems to be a growing thing on TVF to condemn and not help.

[CGW]

7 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Seems to be a growing thing on TVF to condemn and not help.

Thought it had always been that way?

Seriously now, you have steel posts "held" in the ground with a bit of concrete, that appear to be moving, the worse time of the year for winds is after the summer, if it's moving now, what will happen then?

Thai's do indeed have a unique set of logic, none of which change facts, the way you describe it - it is unsafe & needs to be done correctly.

This should give you an idea of minimum design. https://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/footing_fundamentals/footing_dimensions.htm

Good luck.

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, CGW said:

Thought it had always been that way?

Seriously now, you have steel posts "held" in the ground with a bit of concrete, that appear to be moving, the worse time of the year for winds is after the summer, if it's moving now, what will happen then?

Thai's do indeed have a unique set of logic, none of which change facts, the way you describe it - it is unsafe & needs to be done correctly.

This should give you an idea of minimum design. https://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/footing_fundamentals/footing_dimensions.htm

Good luck.

Ok thanks.

 

Thais using "experienced" person to build house so far and, I assume, on the cheap, are probably not going to listen to farang as we know nothing.

 

Mum of house is continually message her 2 daughters who are working in massage in Chiang Mai wanting money to fix this and fix that. I say to my {new} gf does your mother understand where your work have no customers and thus no money. "yes she does but keep asking". Again Thai logic.

 

I was hoping to get someone for a few baht do a sketch as to what would be required and I could try make happen. My gf thinks pouring slab for the house around the post will be sufficient. Seriously how does a kwai farang who knows nothing explain to a Thai who knows everything?

[Cake Monster]

The posts really need to be set into and on top of " Footing Pads "if the structure is a " Post and Beam " type.

Google these things for yourself to gain some knowledge of this compared to what you actually have now

My House sits on Reinforced Concrete Pads that are 1.5 M X 1.5 M and are 250 mm thick, and are 1.5 M deep into the ground, to which concrete columns 80cm Square are joined and then the main beams at 80 cm thick at ground level.

One Upright at 4 M spacing, with some closer together at major load points

This maybe no help to you, but may give you an insight into what really is required.

Of course, the other materials in construction have to be considered IE Tiled roof , Metal sheet roof = different loads.

[Dazinoz]

37 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

The posts really need to be set into and on top of " Footing Pads "if the structure is a " Post and Beam " type.

Google these things for yourself to gain some knowledge of this compared to what you actually have now

My House sits on Reinforced Concrete Pads that are 1.5 M X 1.5 M and are 250 mm thick, and are 1.5 M deep into the ground, to which concrete columns 80cm Square are joined and then the main beams at 80 cm thick at ground level.

One Upright at 4 M spacing, with some closer together at major load points

This maybe no help to you, but may give you an insight into what really is required.

Of course, the other materials in construction have to be considered IE Tiled roof , Metal sheet roof = different loads.

The problem comes is that the posts and roof were done a few months back and done by an"experienced" person in the village and not a builder. No plans were done and no engineer involved. My new gf said post direct in ground with a small amount concrete around each post (15 off).

 

Now after heavy rains and winds "mum" is messaging my gf to get slab poured. I am pukking my hair out trying to explain to her more is needed, But i am just a farang and they used experienced person.

[CGW]

19 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

Thais using "experienced" person to build house so far and, I assume, on the cheap, are probably not going to listen to farang as we know nothing.

For anyone to give a helpful response would need to know how deep the footing are and what they are sitting in?

The top soils here tend to be little more than silt, hopefully they have gone deeper, you would expect so 

 

I understand Thai logic to some extent, when you have no money then you have a roof over your head, theirs a huge difference in ones life. My wife was bought up in a shack, her parents now live in a "house" basic, but it has four walls - their quality of life has improved a 1,000 fold, sure it is a similar situation with the Mother, so hope it turns out for the best.

[Dazinoz]

46 minutes ago, CGW said:

For anyone to give a helpful response would need to know how deep the footing are and what they are sitting in?

If you read what I am after and that is the name of a structural engineer to visit the house and look at sold and one footing and advise. I am 1000km away from house and have never been there so do NOT  know what is existing.

 

The family live in an old wooden house but daughters trying to build more modern house for them. Unfortunately lack of knowledge and limited funds on their side has led to this issue.

 

I had 2 photos she sent me and I looked at on phone. I though posts were steel. However just looking at them on my 27" iMac I can see they are concrete.

 

[CGW]

Thats not what I envisaged!

The looks like the posts are "off the shelf" they have a pre formed flat bottom that is about 3 x the area of the post, there doesn't look like there is a lot buried. Measure how much stick up there is then subtract from original................

We have 12 of these in the wife's veggie garden, they are in the ground 1/2 Metre with no concrete, they are only for holding netting to stop sun, they wont fall down but are not particularly secure.

[Dazinoz]

28 minutes ago, CGW said:

Thats not what I envisaged!

The looks like the posts are "off the shelf" they have a pre formed flat bottom that is about 3 x the area of the post, there doesn't look like there is a lot buried. Measure how much stick up there is then subtract from original................

We have 12 of these in the wife's veggie garden, they are in the ground 1/2 Metre with no concrete, they are only for holding netting to stop sun, they wont fall down but are not particularly secure.

Yep I know the type of posts you mean. As you say they don't look far in ground. Might be the photos but some don't look straight.

 

Its a shame my gf has wasted so much money so far. Her and her parents are of the idea just pour concrete slab and all will be ok.

 

Must admit I am really getting fed up trying to deal with them. If I could have managed to get onto an engineer in the area I would have taken her to visit a few days and check myself. I could go and dig one up and see what has been done but I am not structural engineer so don't know what to do. If I did it I would probably do an overkill at extra cost.

[CGW]

17 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Might be the photos but some don't look straight.

I thought that, they look like mine , difference is mine don't have a roof on top to act like a sail.

[teacherclaire]

On 10/3/2020 at 3:10 PM, Dazinoz said:

Yes I agree. Don't really have to attach name but I just want someone to look at it and say you need to do this "....." so I as can get fixed so won't be a future disaster.

If I were you, I'd try to find a company that does have a plan. Otherwise you're looking at huge problems in the future.

 

    

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, teacherclaire said:

If I were you, I'd try to find a company that does have a plan. Otherwise you're looking at huge problems in the future.

 

    

So far no one interested and I think hard to find due to the amount of construction already done.

[worgeordie]

Just get a concrete floor poured in, it will be good enough,

are you paying for it ?  at least they are concrete posts not steel

regards worgeordie

[Cake Monster]

6 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

So far no one interested and I think hard to find due to the amount of construction already done.

Are you yourself actually doing the looking for the Structural Engineer, or are the GF and her Mom looking.

I dont want to put them down in any way, but it could be a case of " them not looking " because you are Farang and know nothing, or that the " Experienced Guy " has sold them on this , and therefore cannot be wrong.

Looking at the Photos, these Steel posts seem to be not upright for some reason.

This kind of structure  is for a Roadside Soup Shop, not a House.

Me, I would abort project now and find company for correct plans, before you get to the point of no return, and have a shed as a House.

Sorry if tis upsets you, but you have to be realistic about this  

[Dazinoz]

3 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

Are you yourself actually doing the looking for the Structural Engineer, or are the GF and her Mom looking.

I dont want to put them down in any way, but it could be a case of " them not looking " because you are Farang and know nothing, or that the " Experienced Guy " has sold them on this , and therefore cannot be wrong.

Looking at the Photos, these Steel posts seem to be not upright for some reason.

Exactly my thoughts. I had an argument with gf yesterday for saying same. Btw I am looking so MAYBE they will listen to him.

[Dazinoz]

5 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Just get a concrete floor poured in, it will be good enough,

are you paying for it ?  at least they are concrete posts not steel

regards worgeordie

I am thinking just letting them pour the slab.

 

I have not contributed so far but offered to "help" in the slab.

 

I thought they were steel looking at pics on phone but after seeing pics on 27" screen I realised concrete. As CGW said probably off the shelf ones.

[Cake Monster]

7 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Just get a concrete floor poured in, it will be good enough,

are you paying for it ?  at least they are concrete posts not steel

regards worgeordie

OP states the posts are Steel

[Dazinoz]

7 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

OP states the posts are Steel

I have since corrected that in 2 replies.

[Cake Monster]

OP now says the posts are Concrete.

These  will be the 10cm square one I assume.

If they are, you may possibly be able to save the situation with additional bracing beams between the uprights ( once they  are upright ). Bracing top and bottom

Once the Walls are the infilled, and a decent Floor slab put down the structure should be ok ( ish )

Really you need to find an Engineer, and if you have to pay for him to travel and inspect/ advise, it will  probably save you a load of money in the future. 

Good Luck

[ThaidDown]

I'm on the 'dismantle it' side.

 

The key item that seems to be missing is the ground level ring beam that joins bases of all the posts together and stops them later moving relative to one another.  Cannot tell if the posts are deep enough either, that will depend on the ground strength.

As already mentioned this is the type of structure used for temporary open air restaurants or roadside bars.

 

Most, if not all, the materials could probably be be reused. 

 

A 'bodge' method, if the current poles are deep enough, is to chip away at the current poles revealing the rebar then constructing a ring beam at ground level connecting the rebar from it to the poles. Not to any code I'm sure but would at least stabilise the base. A concrete floor could then be laid.

[Dazinoz]

3 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

OP now says the posts are Concrete.

These  will be the 10cm square one I assume.

If they are, you may possibly be able to save the situation with additional bracing beams between the uprights ( once they  are upright ). Bracing top and bottom

Once the Walls are the infilled, and a decent Floor slab put down the structure should be ok ( ish )

Really you need to find an Engineer, and if you have to pay for him to travel and inspect/ advise, it will  probably save you a load of money in the future. 

Good Luck

Thanks.

 

Not sure on posts sizes as I am only getting info 2nd hand. I have contacted a couple engineers directly but not interested, hence my post asking if anyone knows.

 

Was wondering if you could drill through these post and put a a length of reo bar through them to extend into the slab?

 

I have told my gf I will help with cost now but if more is not done then if any problems later in relation to this.will be their problems.

[Dazinoz]

4 minutes ago, ThaidDown said:

I'm on the 'dismantle it' side.

Never going to happen. I am just a farang and the local "experienced" person built it so nothing wrong.

 

I will look at the rest of your idea as SOMETHING needs to be done.

[Cake Monster]

34 minutes ago, ThaidDown said:

I'm on the 'dismantle it' side.

 

The key item that seems to be missing is the ground level ring beam that joins bases of all the posts together and stops them later moving relative to one another.  Cannot tell if the posts are deep enough either, that will depend on the ground strength.

As already mentioned this is the type of structure used for temporary open air restaurants or roadside bars.

 

Most, if not all, the materials could probably be be reused. 

 

A 'bodge' method, if the current poles are deep enough, is to chip away at the current poles revealing the rebar then constructing a ring beam at ground level connecting the rebar from it to the poles. Not to any code I'm sure but would at least stabilise the base. A concrete floor could then be laid.

 

Good solution me thinks.

This will then add rigidity to the structure. 

The " Ground Level Ring " is the lower Beam of a Post and Beam Foundation, and is absolutely essential for the structural integrity of the Building.

Maybe, the uprights can be drilled X 4 holes 13 Diameter through and then Rebar 12 Diameter passed through, welded and boxed off to make the beams maybe 100 wide x 200 deep ( top to bottom ) with some Rebar spurs to lock in the Floor Slab.

Of course the next problem, should  you go this route, will be to convince GF and Mom this really needs doing, and for them to get  the Building guy to do it.

He will probably spit out his Dummy and walk away leaving his mess for someone else to sort out.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Cake Monster

[alfen]

14 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Just get a concrete floor poured in, it will be good enough,

are you paying for it ?  at least they are concrete posts not steel

regards worgeordie

Plus it's only a lightweight roof, the village guys know what they are doing and that structure will still be standing long after your gone, just through a little money at it to help out instead of bring western ideas into it, help, don't hinder.