New Zealand Coroner Slams 'slipshod' Thai Police

[sriracha john]

NZ coroner raps 'slipshod' Thai police

Wellington - A New Zealand coroner has criticized Thai police for a "slipshod" investigation into the death of a man who was found dead in a resort hotel swimming pool in 2003, it was reported on Tuesday. Coroner Garry Evans said it made it impossible for him to find out why New Zealander Luke Tahu Stevens, 29, died at the Grand Plaza Hotel in the southern Thai resort of Hat Yai on September 6 2003. He said the Thai police had failed to ensure a full autopsy was conducted, failed to interview a key witness and failed to examine the scene to find out where Stevens fell and how he died.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=118446

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Coroner critical of Thai pool death inquiry

The Wellington coroner has taken the unusual step of criticizing a foreign police investigation into a New Zealander's fatal fall into a Thai hotel pool.

Luke Tahu Stevens, 29, was found dead in the Grand Plaza Hotel pool in the southern Thai resort of Hat Yai on September 6, 2003.

He was the son of television journalist Ross Stevens, who died of cancer in 1997.

Wellington coroner Garry Evans said a slipshod investigation by Thai police had made it impossible for him to find out why Mr Stevens died.

Police failed to ensure a full autopsy was conducted, failed to interview a key witness and failed to examine the scene to find out where Mr Stevens fell and how he died.

Mr Evans said the standard of the investigation by Thai police "falls below that standard observed by New Zealand police" and the court could not rule how or why he died.

"The coroner's ability to discharge his statutory functions is therefore seriously compromised," Mr Evans wrote in his findings.

The court was told Luke Stevens suddenly left his London flat at the end of August 2003, taking almost no luggage with him. His sudden departure was out of character.

He checked into the Royal Plaza Hotel on September 4. Two days later, hotel staff said a taxi driver went to his room and demanded payment of a fare, but left after getting no response.

Shortly afterward, Mr Stevens' body was found face-down in the hotel's swimming pool. He appeared to have jumped on to a cabana roof, two floors below, and then fallen a further four metres into the pool, striking his head somewhere along the way.

But the court could not conclusively rule whether he had fallen or jumped. If he had jumped, it could not rule on whether he meant to land on the cabana roof, or whether he was trying to kill himself.

Mr Evans said that, though there was evidence that Mr Stevens had been drinking and using drugs while in Thailand, the absence of blood tests meant it would never be known whether they were factors in his death.

Thai evidence also stated a hotel employee said he had seen Mr Stevens "in an intoxicated state" the day he died. But there was no evidence that Thai police interviewed the witness.

Mr Evans said the evidence before the court did not meet the high standard of proof required for a verdict of suicide.

He ruled out foul play, and said it was doubtful there was any link between the presence of the taxi driver and Mr Stevens' death.

Detective Inspector Mike Bush, former New Zealand Police liaison officer in Southeast Asia, who also investigated Mr Stevens' death and provided evidence to the inquest, said Thai police were not bound by the same standard of investigation as New Zealand police.

- The Dominion Post (New Zealand)

[WaiWai]

Detective Inspector Mike Bush, former New Zealand Police liaison officer in Southeast Asia, who also investigated Mr Stevens' death and provided evidence to the inquest, said Thai police were not bound by the same standard of investigation as New Zealand police.

*Evidently* not .

[Pink Mist]

didnt realise the kiwis ruled Thailand

[dumspero]

Let's complain when things aren't done in a poorer country just like they might be done in a richer country.

Sad fact is you go get drunk and drugged in a so-called developing country and you're taking a bigger risk than in NZ or someplace like that.

[JacksonGlurk]

Let's see now....

Four posts, one of which was the original newspaper story, and two of them are slamming people for judging Thais by...ahem...'western' standards.

Bloody typical.

[Donnyboy]

didnt realise the kiwis ruled Thailand

well not yet anyway, aunty Helen has world domination plans, with stunning looks and a way with words, the world will fall at her feet

see picture

[Donnyboy]

Let's see now....

Four posts, one of which was the original newspaper story, and two of them are slamming people for judging Thais by...ahem...'western' standards.

Bloody typical.

no slammin people on my post..........not even if she was the last female on a deserted island

[Donnyboy]

Let's see now....

Four posts, one of which was the original newspaper story, and two of them are slamming people for judging Thais by...ahem...'western' standards.

Bloody typical.

but it does seem that this case is a tad inconclusive why Mr Stevens died, by the way the story is reported anyway. Hence the prejudice comments.

Perhaps it may have been poor police performance in this paticular case, but there are numerous of incidents in Thailand where the police may have buggered up, in my view anyway.

[Pink Mist]

thats right donny, it's the Thai police province not a kiwi coroner

[chuchok]

Let's see now....

Four posts, one of which was the original newspaper story, and two of them are slamming people for judging Thais by...ahem...'western' standards.

Bloody typical.

Well what standards do you prefer,something like this....

Policeman:Hey Sargent Somchai,we've got another farang dead in Pattaya.

Somchai:What happened?

Policeman:dunno really.bloke was found with his head in a plastic bag and his arms and feet tied up.

Somchai:Another sucicide eh

Policeman:Yep,afraid so.

Somchai:ok that's that then.Let's do a shakedown of a few pubs down the road.The car payments for the mia noi are doing my head in......

[Pink Mist]

[scousemouse]

Let's see now....

Four posts, one of which was the original newspaper story, and two of them are slamming people for judging Thais by...ahem...'western' standards.

Bloody typical.

Well what standards do you prefer,something like this....

Policeman:Hey Sargent Somchai,we've got another farang dead in Pattaya.

Somchai:What happened?

Policeman:dunno really.bloke was found with his head in a plastic bag and his arms and feet tied up.

Somchai:Another sucicide eh

Policeman:Yep,afraid so.

Somchai:ok that's that then.Let's do a shakedown of a few pubs down the road.The car payments for the mia noi are doing my head in......

ouch !!!!! !!!!!.

[taxexile]

Mr Evans said that, though there was evidence that Mr Stevens had been drinking and using drugs while in Thailand, the absence of blood tests meant it would never be known whether they were factors in his death.

Thai evidence also stated a hotel employee said he had seen Mr Stevens "in an intoxicated state" the day he died. But there was no evidence that Thai police interviewed the witness.

Wellington coroner Garry Evans said a slipshod investigation by Thai police had made it impossible for him to find out why Mr Stevens died

Let's complain when things aren't done in a poorer country just like they might be done in a richer country.

the nz coroner is complaining , quite rightly , about a slipshod investigation.

this has everything to do with lack of professionalism , laziness and not following procedure , and nothing at all to do with a poor country or a rich country.

a blood test for drugs , alcohol , diabetes , heart attack etc. should be standard procedure in any country , and i'm sure it is in thailand too.

the thai police are quick enough to interview falangs if they suspect their visa is out of date by half an hour , or if there is a complaint against a tourist.

the police and the hospital just couldnt be bothered , i.e. were slipshod.

Edited May 2, 2007 by taxexile

[kmart]

Let's complain when things aren't done in a poorer country just like they might be done in a richer country.

Sad fact is you go get drunk and drugged in a so-called developing country and you're taking a bigger risk than in NZ or someplace like that.

Sad fact is that the Thai Police are largely a shower of <deleted>, and beyond extortion and collection of tea money for the boss, usually cannot be relied upon to do their jobs to any level of competency...

Just throw a few empty beer bottles in a dead guy's room and then its problem solved.

[wintermute]

I think NZ is confused about something, police in Thailand aren't here to help anyone except themselves and their big bosses. That's how things work in a banana republic. If you want a real investigation you need to lean on the people on the very top.

[JacksonGlurk]

Let's complain when things aren't done in a poorer country just like they might be done in a richer country.

Sad fact is you go get drunk and drugged in a so-called developing country and you're taking a bigger risk than in NZ or someplace like that.

Sad fact is that the Thai Police are largely a shower of <deleted>, and beyond extortion and collection of tea money for the boss, usually cannot be relied upon to do their jobs to any level of competency...

Just throw a few empty beer bottles in a dead guy's room and then its problem solved.

Oh dear. Another poster whose broken his rose colored glasses. If this doesn't stop, there won't be any reason left to read Thai Visa anymore....

[samran]

lets be problem solvers here.

How would you change things as public sector managers, in a way that won't get you shot, kidnapped (and then shot), or have your family kidnapped and then shot. Not to mention very limited public budget and unweildly bureacracy to back you up.

1000 words or less "if I ruled Thailand then I would...."

[chuchok]

lets be problem solvers here.

How would you change things as public sector managers, in a way that won't get you shot, kidnapped (and then shot), or have your family kidnapped and then shot. Not to mention very limited public budget and unweildly bureacracy to back you up.

1000 words or less "if I ruled Thailand then I would...."

just ask the foresic kunying with the freaky hair if this was a 'slipslod' job and i'm sure she will agree.

A freind of mine died a couple of months ago in BKK from a heart attack.Autopsy was done,as were blood tests etc.No slipslod job at all.Done ,just as it should have been.......

[samran]

lets be problem solvers here.

How would you change things as public sector managers, in a way that won't get you shot, kidnapped (and then shot), or have your family kidnapped and then shot. Not to mention very limited public budget and unweildly bureacracy to back you up.

1000 words or less "if I ruled Thailand then I would...."

just ask the foresic kunying with the freaky hair if this was a 'slipslod' job and i'm sure she will agree.

A freind of mine died a couple of months ago in BKK from a heart attack.Autopsy was done,as were blood tests etc.No slipslod job at all.Done ,just as it should have been.......

while I don't disagree with you at all (I mean, I live and work here...I KNOW!!!), that wasn't my question. I'd just like to hear a propsal for a solution rather than ad nausium bagging.....Buggered if I know the right answer to be perfectly honest, but there must be a bright spark out there somewhere.

[chuchok]

while I don't disagree with you at all (I mean, I live and work here...I KNOW!!!), that wasn't my question. I'd just like to hear a propsal for a solution rather than ad nausium bagging.....Buggered if I know the right answer to be perfectly honest, but there must be a bright spark out there somewhere.

Fine the people responsible for work unbecoming etc..Decent fines,mandatory,no way out etc.(Easier said than done though...)

[samran]

one thing I'd do though for low level traffic infringments, I'd make them 100baht max, payable via internet banking or at 7-11. No confiscaition of license either. Part of the issue with bribing police is that it is such a pain in the arse to pay legitimately.

Dunno about increasing the quality of investigative work though. Probably requires inquiring mines to start with.

[sriracha john]

1000 words or less "if I ruled Thailand then I would...."

1. Ensure that in any unexplained death that blood alcohol levels and drug screens be conducted.

2. Ensure that any witnesses involved be interviewed.

3. Ensure that a full autopsy be performed.

4. Ensure the scene of the incident was examined.

5. Establish a time limit before something is done for anyone who faints onto the floor of a cell in police custody and remains motion-less. Perhaps a few hours wouldn't be too much to ask as a limit:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=78424&hl=

[Jimjim]

Investigations can get f---ed up anywhere, just look at the O.J. Simpson investigation. I think many Thai homicide detectives do a great job and there are some great forensic investigators here, particularly that lady they mention in the news all the time, if you can believe the news.

As a whole, though, probably New Zealand police would live up to higher standards more often than Thai police.

There just needs to be more consistency and training taking place in Thailand and it will take time and money, and several years.

[dumspero]

Agreed with Jimjim. (hoping that's just jimjim and not jimjim, but who knows. JuJim?)

The answer is easy. Consistently trained police who consistently enforce law and policy in a transparent and honest manner. Getting there takes time and money, and that is hard.

Too bad when some swap their newbie rose colored glasses for glasses that can only see shit. The truth lies somewhere in between, and it only heads in the right direction with focus on the good and steps to move things in that direction.

[kmart]

Agreed with Jimjim. (hoping that's just jimjim and not jimjim, but who knows. JuJim?)

The answer is easy. Consistently trained police who consistently enforce law and policy in a transparent and honest manner. Getting there takes time and money, and that is hard.

Too bad when some swap their newbie rose colored glasses for glasses that can only see shit. The truth lies somewhere in between, and it only heads in the right direction with focus on the good and steps to move things in that direction.

They don't seem to be short of either money (at the top level anyway) or time, and yet....?

I'd like to share your optimism, dumspero. I admit my earlier post was rather negative; I do know quite a few local cops, and they are good guys, but it seems that the whole organisation is rotten and morally bankrupt... Right from the top down. It will take a heckuva lot of political will and maybe massive upheaval to change this.