Overcharged, Even With A Menu

[jeebusjones]

Recently, I found a new restaurant on a quiet soi not far from my apartment. It's an Isaan restaurant, serving such tasty treats as som tam, kao moo yang and nom took moo. The tables are spread out in a banana grove, providing a relaxing, private atmosphere with the sounds of birds chirping instead of engines revving.

Today I went there for lunch with my girlfriend. When we received the bill, we were surprised to see a different total than what we'd expected. It wasn't much higher, but enough to catch our attention.

My girlfriend asked why the prices on the bill weren't the same as the prices on the menu. The waiter clearly was caught off guard, and spewed out some bs story about how it was an old menu from an old restaurant, and the prices were different now. We knew that was crap for many reasons, and my girlfriend politely told him that he shouldn't charge a different price than what was on the menu. And in fact, on our previous visit they hadn't. But this time they smelled farang money and got greedy, and tried to overcharge us in spite of having prices clearly written on the menu.

Now, it's not the money that bothers me. The difference was only about 40 baht. But it's the principle of being ripped off. I just can't understand people who have such a petty mentality. By attempting to steal 40 baht, they've now lost my future business. I probably would have gone there a few times a week, and I always tip . But now I'll never go back.

This is not a unique experience. This happens more often than I'd like to admit, and it's beginning to drive me crazy! Anyone else have similar experiences?

[LoveDaBlues]

Did you pay the correct price or the higher price?

[Jingthing]

This has happened to me so many times. The old "old menu" scam. I just ask to see the menu again, and not once have they not changed the prices back or threatened to call the police. It probably works most of the time for them, so they probably think why not? I truly think the concept of the menu price equals an implied contract is not very strong here. The other variation is the claim that they gave you the "large" size even though there is only one price and size on the menu. When ripped off, push back. If there is no menu, you are pretty much out of luck.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[wolfmanjack]

Recently, I found a new restaurant on a quiet soi not far from my apartment. It's an Isaan restaurant, serving such tasty treats as som tam, kao moo yang and nom took moo. The tables are spread out in a banana grove, providing a relaxing, private atmosphere with the sounds of birds chirping instead of engines revving.

Today I went there for lunch with my girlfriend. When we received the bill, we were surprised to see a different total than what we'd expected. It wasn't much higher, but enough to catch our attention.

My girlfriend asked why the prices on the bill weren't the same as the prices on the menu. The waiter clearly was caught off guard, and spewed out some bs story about how it was an old menu from an old restaurant, and the prices were different now. We knew that was crap for many reasons, and my girlfriend politely told him that he shouldn't charge a different price than what was on the menu. And in fact, on our previous visit they hadn't. But this time they smelled farang money and got greedy, and tried to overcharge us in spite of having prices clearly written on the menu.

Now, it's not the money that bothers me. The difference was only about 40 baht. But it's the principle of being ripped off. I just can't understand people who have such a petty mentality. By attempting to steal 40 baht, they've now lost my future business. I probably would have gone there a few times a week, and I always tip . But now I'll never go back.

This is not a unique experience. This happens more often than I'd like to admit, and it's beginning to drive me crazy! Anyone else have similar experiences?

I used to go to a restaurant down the road from me and every time i went the bill would be different even though i ate the same thing every time. It all depended on who figured out the bill. The husband was the cheapest. The mother was the most expensive and the daughter was in the middle. I tried to get my wife to find out what the deal was but she wouldn't question them about it. I liked the food though and even the highest price was still cheap so I continued to eat there. Yes I still got 3 different prices. Even after being here 8 years.

[jeebusjones]

Did you pay the correct price or the higher price?

I paid the higher price, but left no tip. In hindsight I really wish I hadn't, but my girlfriend is fairly non-confrontational. She's also pretty concerned about "face," and she thought she could keep the higher ground by paying the extra bit.

So, if I paid the higher price once, do you think it would be possible to go back in the future and demand the correct, menu price? Or have I already burned that bridge?

[blizzard]

why dont you walk out with a few utensils to show them!

all this and you thinking of going back for more. is today thai comics day?

Edited May 3, 2007 by blizzard

[Jingthing]

Bridge definitely burned. If I were you, I would go again at least once and give them another try. When ordering, say gai yang, 80 baht, chai mai, pointing to the menu. I think they will get the message.

[LoveDaBlues]

Did you pay the correct price or the higher price?

I paid the higher price, but left no tip. In hindsight I really wish I hadn't, but my girlfriend is fairly non-confrontational. She's also pretty concerned about "face," and she thought she could keep the higher ground by paying the extra bit.

So, if I paid the higher price once, do you think it would be possible to go back in the future and demand the correct, menu price? Or have I already burned that bridge?

If you really like the food I wouldn't stop going there. Just wait a week or so before going back. Before ordering ask the waiter "is this the new menu or the old menu"? (with a slight smile of course) You'll be charged correct prices.

[jeebusjones]

I will say this only once, the official Thai Visa response is "If you don't like it go home!"

Ok now we may continue.

I'm glad that's out of the way.

[blizzard]

we aint done yet.............lol.

now i know why thais will take advantage of farangs. the farangs are just like rocky balboa. they lead with their chin just asking to be smacked, and when the thai smacks em they go back for more.

[LoveDaBlues]

we aint done yet.............lol.

now i know why thais will take advantage of farangs. the farangs are just like rocky balboa. they lead with their chin just asking to be smacked, and when the thai smacks em they go back for more.

yea........40 baht......that's a real ass-whoomping!

glad a newbie is such a Thai expert.

[wolfmanjack]

we aint done yet.............lol.

now i know why thais will take advantage of farangs. the farangs are just like rocky balboa. they lead with their chin just asking to be smacked, and when the thai smacks em they go back for more.

yea........40 baht......that's a real ass-whoomping!

glad a newbie is such a Thai expert.

Hey 40 baht is a fortune to him. It could break his piggy bank.

Besides the 40 baht is what the OP probably would have left for a tip anyway so it wasn't the smack on the chin that buznis blizzard thinks it was.

[blizzard]

psychologically i bet this guy is fuming. stress kills. watch out.

[Naam]

Now, it's not the money that bothers me. The difference was only about 40 baht. But it's the principle of being ripped off.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

once i shot the waiter and the owner of a restaurant when they tried to cheat me out 50 baht. it was not a clever move as it costs 200 baht on the black market to replace a 9mm bullet. to save a bullet i had them stand one behind the other (which -for reasons unknown to me- they did rather reluctantly).

[PhilHarries]

I truly think the concept of the menu price equals an implied contract is not very strong here.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a price on a menu, or even a price tag, advert or display, is any form of contract at all, implied or otherwise. It is merely an invitation to trade and the shop keeper or, in this case restauranteur, is free to ask any price they like for the goods at the point of sale.

Edit: Just struck me that the point of ordering the food could be construed as the point of sale and thus the contract established at the price on display.

Edited May 3, 2007 by PhilHarries

[LoveDaBlues]

we aint done yet.............lol.

now i know why thais will take advantage of farangs. the farangs are just like rocky balboa. they lead with their chin just asking to be smacked, and when the thai smacks em they go back for more.

yea........40 baht......that's a real ass-whoomping!

glad a newbie is such a Thai expert.

Hey 40 baht is a fortune to him. It could break his piggy bank.

Besides the 40 baht is what the OP probably would have left for a tip anyway so it wasn't the smack on the chin that buznis blizzard thinks it was.

wolfmanjack - can't you get things right? In "blizzardspeak" it's 'buznit'.......not 'buznis'.

[blizzard]

read the post guys, i know its not the amount of mony.

ITS THE PRINCIPLE ! but to be honest i think its the money. no way he leave a dollar tip. his "girlfriend" would have none of that. ive seen thai chicks leave 2 or 3 baht.

Edited May 3, 2007 by blizzard

[Jingthing]

I truly think the concept of the menu price equals an implied contract is not very strong here.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a price on a menu, or even a price tag, advert or display, is any form of contract at all, implied or otherwise. It is merely an invitation to trade and the shop keeper or, in this case restauranteur, is free to ask any price they like for the goods at the point of sale.

You have a point in a retail shop where bargaining is allowed. But if at an eatery, and your order a fried rice from a menu, and the menu says 50 baht, and the waiter takes your order and brings you the food, it is an implied contract that you will pay 50 baht. You don't think so? If the waiter said, no thats 70 baht now, different story, or if you said I will give you 20 baht for that fried rice (absurd), different story too.

Now if you are a street stall with no menu and you order the fried rice and eat it, they really can say any amount if you don't ask the price first.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Jingthing

[Toptrainer]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a price on a menu, or even a price tag, advert or display, is any form of contract at all, implied or otherwise. It is merely an invitation to trade and the shop keeper or, in this case restauranteur, is free to ask any price they like for the goods at the point of sale.

I agree like Traffic laws and the illegality of prostitution it is only a suggestion and not the reality.

[wolfmanjack]

we aint done yet.............lol.

now i know why thais will take advantage of farangs. the farangs are just like rocky balboa. they lead with their chin just asking to be smacked, and when the thai smacks em they go back for more.

yea........40 baht......that's a real ass-whoomping!

glad a newbie is such a Thai expert.

Hey 40 baht is a fortune to him. It could break his piggy bank.

Besides the 40 baht is what the OP probably would have left for a tip anyway so it wasn't the smack on the chin that buznis blizzard thinks it was.

wolfmanjack - can't you get things right? In "blizzardspeak" it's 'buznit'.......not 'buznis'.

My apologies. Where is that wai smiley that every one uses anyway ?

[bkkmadness]

Unless you spoke to a manager and got the same information it was probably a small time staff scam so perhaps not going back punishes the wrong people. I'd use the place again, any more problems with the bill speak to the boss, don't get fobbed off by some waiting staff. An alternative is if you get the right bill still speak to the boss and ask him why you was overcharged last time.

[PhilHarries]

I truly think the concept of the menu price equals an implied contract is not very strong here.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a price on a menu, or even a price tag, advert or display, is any form of contract at all, implied or otherwise. It is merely an invitation to trade and the shop keeper or, in this case restauranteur, is free to ask any price they like for the goods at the point of sale.

You have a point in a retail shop where bargaining is allowed. But if at an eatery, and your order a fried rice, and the menu says 50 baht, and the waiter takes your order and brings you the food, it is an implied contract that you will pay 50 baht. You don't think so? If the waiter said, no thats 70 baht now, different story, or if you said I will give you 20 baht for that fried rice (absurd), different story too.

Yeah, I realised the point just after I clicked Add Reply. See edited post.

Personally I don't mind too much regarding minor variations as I don't usually notice them. It's not as if I mentally add up the costs as I go down the menu. Besides which here in KL you'd have to add up the prices then add on the +10% service and +5% government tax.

[LoveDaBlues]

I truly think the concept of the menu price equals an implied contract is not very strong here.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a price on a menu, or even a price tag, advert or display, is any form of contract at all, implied or otherwise. It is merely an invitation to trade and the shop keeper or, in this case restauranteur, is free to ask any price they like for the goods at the point of sale.

Edit: Just struck me that the point of ordering the food could be construed as the point of sale and thus the contract established at the price on display.

Wow, you got it wrong twice.

The POS doesn't matter. If there is a dispute over price and a 3rd party is called in (police) the only way to establish price is to refer to the menu. Of course, WHICH menu could be a problem. IF the police handled the situation correctly they would defer to the menu shown to the customer; in this case if I'm reading correctly there really wasn't a 'newer' menu; just a bill padded by 40 baht.

[blizzard]

simple way is to take it to judge judy. let her decide.....................lol. or judge her thai counterpart jusdg somchai...............lol.

[LoveDaBlues]

read the post guys, i know its not the amount of mony.

ITS THE PRINCIPLE ! but to be honest i think its the money. no way he leave a dollar tip. his "girlfriend" would have none of that. ive seen thai chicks leave 2 or 3 baht.

I've seen Thai women leave no tip. My Thai wife leaves roughly 10%.

you said "no way he leave a dollar tip." Wow give me some of your smart pills.......you know so much about individuals you probably never met........

[JR Texas]

I truly think the concept of the menu price equals an implied contract is not very strong here.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe a price on a menu, or even a price tag, advert or display, is any form of contract at all, implied or otherwise. It is merely an invitation to trade and the shop keeper or, in this case restauranteur, is free to ask any price they like for the goods at the point of sale.

You have a point in a retail shop where bargaining is allowed. But if at an eatery, and your order a fried rice, and the menu says 50 baht, and the waiter takes your order and brings you the food, it is an implied contract that you will pay 50 baht. You don't think so? If the waiter said, no thats 70 baht now, different story, or if you said I will give you 20 baht for that fried rice (absurd), different story too.

Yeah, I realised the point just after I clicked Add Reply. See edited post.

Personally I don't mind too much regarding minor variations as I don't usually notice them. It's not as if I mentally add up the costs as I go down the menu. Besides which here in KL you'd have to add up the prices then add on the +10% service and +5% government tax.

JR Texas: This sort of petty theft bugs me.......it seems to be a well-established game in Thailand.

A Thai just came into my office and told me, "Thais think all farangs are rich."

Maybe it is a cultural thing.....they think we are all rich so cheating us is OK. Of course, to them it is not cheating and probably has something to do with perceived "fairness."

So farangs and Thais are on opposite sides of a cultural (ethical/moral) fence with regard to this issue.

For the record, I think the worst cheats are the tuk tuk and taxi drivers.

[LoveDaBlues]

once you've lived in LOS more than 5 minutes it's easy to protect yourself.

tuk tuk - establish price to destination BEFORE you jump in

taxi - make em turn on the meter or no go

Plenty of Thais cheat other Thais too......don't feel special lol.

[JimsKnight]

Typical TV thread on this issue, you have two camps - One that you're keeneow and shouldn't mind, just bend over and take your medicine! Then theres the other that, rightly so, you should argue the toss out of it and get a fair deal.

Whenever I go to a place like that I try to ascertain the price first! But of course its not always possible as, you may come across as a keeneow in front of all the thais and, in this case, the thai gf.

[blizzard]

thai s think we are rich becoz we are. what foreigner would want to live here with no money.

i know there are exceptins. sorry if you are poor and farang..................lol.

[Toptrainer]

JR Texas: This sort of petty theft bugs me.......it seems to be a well-established game in Thailand.

A Thai just came into my office and told me, "Thais think all farangs are rich."

Maybe it is a cultural thing.....they think we are all rich so cheating us is OK. Of course, to them it is not cheating and probably has something to do with perceived "fairness."

So farangs and Thais are on opposite sides of a cultural (ethical/moral) fence with regard to this issue.

For the record, I think the worst cheats are the tuk tuk and taxi drivers.

How dare you! Tuk Tuk's and Taxi drivers are the most wonderful people on Earth! Mother Theresa herself came to Thailand oh so many years ago just to learn about being charitable from theese gental souls.

If your lazy,fat,pasty white butt wasn't so stingy you would give and give some more until you bleed! Yes, I said bleed don't you know that Buddha declared Tuk Tuk drivers at a higher plane than Nirvanna(the place not the band). It is for them and only them to decide what you should pay and no matter how much they ask you should pay it happily!

Stingy sod!