Time is running out to enact any trade deal with UK: EU lawmakers

[473geo]

8 hours ago, RayC said:

You are correct that I am not an original thinker, but you are flattering yourself if you think that rehashing the same tired out cliques - without any evidence to support them - brings anything new to the debate.

You could be correct as I have not spent the last 4 years whining about Brexit, whereas you appear well informed if not equipped

[kingdong]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

What is it you failed to understand about "Like non EU/EEA national migrants, they also cannot claim income related benefits unless they satisfy the habitual residence test?"

And whats the habitual residence test? Being in the uk under the freedom of movement act?

[kingdong]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

When did von de Leyen confide this remarkable information to you?

In the katesiree soi buahow just after the weekly mensa meeting.

[luckyluke]

12 hours ago, vogie said:

When people lose arguments they generally follow up with an insult, 

Or :

Suppose to be funny, one-liners. 

Ha-ha & Confused emoticons. 

[candide]

10 hours ago, uncleP said:

We will become a tax haven.  The EU's biggest  fear ????

A tax heaven policy is not sustainable for a big country. It will lose more tax from the high number of companies which are already settled on its territory, than it will earn by attracting new companies.

That's different for small countries. They can attract a lot more companies than their few domestic companies. So even if taxes are low, they can still get enough revenues.

[luckyluke]

12 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Even if we did save £350m a week, how will this affect you ? Do you really think that this will be plouged back into the NHS or that your taxes will be lowered ?

 

 

It is my understanding that, every Leave voter is expecting that something concrete, for the benefit of all, will be done with that money. 

This will also show the Remain voter that Brexit has a positive effect on their live. 

We now just have to wait what these concrete measures will be. 

I suppose this will be announced early next year. 

A kind of New-year present from the U.K. government. 

In my opinion a wise choice of date. 

 

Of course there is a possibility that nothing will be done with that money for the man of the street. 

This would be very unwise in my opinion :

Leave voters will have the impression that they have been cheated. 

Remain voters will claim, once again, that Brexit was a big lie. 

 

Hard Brexiteers will find an excuse. 

Or than, for once, maybe not. 

 

Will see. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by luckyluke

[luckyluke]

6 hours ago, kingdong said:

 as europe tears itself apart.

I don't know if that would be good or bad,

or once again, just like this E.U. thing, having no influence on the man of the street. 

 

Well when I claim no influence, it is because for me and the few I know, it hasn't. 

 

But always interested to read here, what concrete influence (positive or negative) the E.U. brought to the man of the street, from any country member, or past member, of the E.U.

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

I don't know if that would be good or bad,

or once again, just like this E.U. thing, having no influence on the man of the street. 

 

Well when I claim no influence, it is because for me and the few I know, it hasn't. 

 

But always interested to read here, what concrete influence (positive or negative) the E.U. brought to the man of the street, from any country member, or past member, of the E.U.

What about the 2 million eu citizens residing in the uk working in the gig economies on zero hour contracts on bogus self employed contracts then claiming tax and housing credits( a form of benefit with a fancy name ) so they take from our economy not contribute,for said industries to work they require a surplus of workers,which under eu current freedom of movement the uk is unable to stop,obviously not all migrants are claiming tax and housing credits but a large percentage are.there is goung to be a bloodbath of job losses early next year to the delight of the remainers who will shout from the rooftops " its because of brexit "when its actually down to the covid panademic,a lot of people are going to find themselves unemployed with no hope of getting a job in the near future,some harsh governing will need to occur which britain will be able to do without being hamstrung thru eu legislation.on my last point i sincerely hope i,m wrong,however whilst reading the future was never my strong point i did manage to master simple arithmetic.

[kingdong]

5 hours ago, RayC said:

Yet again this is supposed unreasonableness on the part of the EU is presented as some sort of a priori truth, which requires no further justification,  as opposed to what it actually is, namely unsubstantiated opinion.

 

I can't understand why an issue as insignificant as fishing has been allowed to escalate. Having said that, imo the EU should change its stance: Notwithstanding any contractual obligations with individual EU fishing companies, the UK has a point and it is unreasonable of the EU to expect the CFP to continue unaltered post-transition.

 

On the matter of state aid, the opposite is true. How can the UK expect to trade in the single market under more favourable terms and conditions than those that currently exist? There are rules governing the use of state aid which EU member states have to abide by. If they break these rules then they can be sanctioned by the ECJ. Why should the UK expect to be exempt from these conditions if it wants to trade in the single market?

 

Post transition, the UK will no longer be obliged to enact EU legislation into UK law, so in what way will it be a political alliance? Where is the evidence to suggest that the EU will have - or desires - any influence over UK domestic policy post transition?

Just negotiating without the chest-beating rhetoric from UK government ministers would be a start.

So I should disregard my feeling that - on the whole - 'the other side' make the more rational argument just because I was born in a particular place? 

 

The comment about "... unaccountable bureaucrats.." is just nonsense. Barnier is not a latter-day Napoleon. He is employed by the European Commission, who take instructions from - and are accountable to - the European Council, The Council of Ministers and the European Parliament: The latter body is directly elected by the public in the EU, whilst the other two bodies consist of Heads of State and ministers from the individual member states, all of whom were elected in free democratic elections. 

 

I don't wish misfortune on my own country. A thriving UK is in my individual best interests. I live in London; most of my assets are in the UK. I want the UK to succeed, but I don't accept that I have to blindly get behind every (in)action made by this government.

 

I am not accusing you of holding this view, but it is clear from comments made on this forum that there are Brits who are simply pro-Brexit not just because they are anti-EU, and feel that the UK would be better off going it alone, but because they are anti-European and wish to see European nations fail.

On your last point ,like europe wants britain to fail? Seems a lot of european posters on here are of the same school of thought.as i mentioned before when europe tears itself apart a self governing uk coud look like a safe haven,free from the restrictions of the eu.

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

What about the 2 million eu citizens residing in the uk working in the gig economies... 

The U.K., in this particular case, will have the possibility next year to change their Immigration law concerning European citizens. 

 

However it always had the possibility to create laws and regulations, to reduce, if not stop these zero hours contracts and benefits for these people.

Same as they could severely punished the ones who employ them. 

 

 Your post described a typical U. K. problem, which could be handled by the U.K. government. 

 

It however doesn’t convince me of concrete influence of the E.U. on the man of the street in Europe. 

[luckyluke]

10 minutes ago, kingdong said:

when europe tears itself apart a self governing uk coud look like ,free from the restrictions of the eu.

Will the E.U. tears itself apart? 

 

Will it be a bad thing? 

 

Are there concrete restrictions of the E.U. for the man in the street? 

 

You may have these impression/opinion.

 

It is not necessarily the impression/opinion of all of us. 

 

[kingdong]

8 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

The U.K., in this particular case, will have the possibility next year to change their Immigration law concerning European citizens. 

 

However it always had the possibility to create laws and regulations, to reduce, if not stop these zero hours contracts and benefits for these people.

Same as they could severely punished the ones who employ them. 

 

 Your post described a typical U. K. problem, which could be handled by the U.K. government. 

 

It however doesn’t convince me of concrete influence of the E.U. on the man of the street in Europe. 

Just described how eu has affected the working man,sorry it didn,t convince you and hope future events don,t have you looking for a job next year along with 10 s of thousands of other unemployed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Just described how eu has affected the working man,sorry it didn,t convince you and hope future events don,t have you looking for a job next year along with 10 s of thousands of other unemployed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the E.U.,there is indeed freedom of movement. 

 

However each country has the right to create his own laws and regulations. 

 

If in the U.K., some people are treated preferentially, with special benefits, and are allowed to work cash in hand or whatever, different from what it should be legally, 

it is because the U.K. government let it happens. 

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

The U.K., in this particular case, will have the possibility next year to change their Immigration law concerning European citizens. 

 

However it always had the possibility to create laws and regulations, to reduce, if not stop these zero hours contracts and benefits for these people.

Same as they could severely punished the ones who employ them. 

 

 Your post described a typical U. K. problem, which could be handled by the U.K. government. 

 

It however doesn’t convince me of concrete influence of the E.U. on the man of the street in Europe. 

There is another school of thought that said we should stay in the eu and change it from within,what a joke that was,when cameron went to the eu in the spring before the peoples election regarding unemployed migrants coming in and claiming benefits,they laughed in his face.then the election by this time the people had had enough and voted accordingly.perhaps the british could have fought to bring about change but preferred to sit back and dp sweet fa,now after we leave they,re going to have to be accountable and will no longer be able to bleat" we can't do anything because of eu rules "

[luckyluke]

52 minutes ago, kingdong said:

There is another school of thought.. 

 

There was a referendum and Leave won, democracy has to been respected. 

I don't have any problem with that. 

However I don't buy that the E.U. changed the condition of life of the man in the street, in any European country. 

My life as pensioner is financially better than a U.K. pensionner, this is not thanks to the E.U., but to the Belgian government. 

If apparently some Britons have less benefits than some Immigrants, is not the fault of the E.U., but of the U.K. government which tolerate this/making this possible. 

 

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

There was a referendum and Leave won, democracy has to been respected. 

I don't have any problem with that. 

However I don't buy that the E.U. changed the condition of life of the man in the street, in any European country. 

My life as pensioner is financially better than a U.K. pensionner, this is not thanks to the E.U., but to the Belgian government. 

If apparently some Britons have less benefits than some Immigrants, is not the fault of the E.U., but of the U.K. government which tolerate this/making this possible. 

 

I gave my opinion as to how i thought the eu had affected british lives,yet all you're going on about is  your own personal circumstances,quite frankly couldn,t give a tinkers cuss.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, kingdong said:

I gave my opinion as to how i thought the eu had affected british lives,yet all you're going on about is  your own personal circumstances,quite frankly couldn,t give a tinkers cuss.

It is up to you of course to consider my 2 concrete examples as untrue. 

As is the fact that you consider someone else opinion, if not similar with yours, as of no interest. 

[kingdong]

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

It is up to you of course to consider my 2 concrete examples as untrue. 

As is the fact that you consider someone else opinion, if not similar with yours, as of no interest. 

I stated as  to how i considered being in the eu affected the lives of british workers,you replied with a i,me myself post,if you want to blow your trumpet,join the flemish Philharmonic,nothing more to be said on this subject.i,m sick of trying to reason,flogging a dead horse.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

I stated as  to how i considered being in the eu affected the lives of british workers,you replied with a i,me myself post

Being part of the E.U. is accepting  the rules, one of them is freedom of movement, but every country has the right to impose his own regulations on its citizens and immigrants.

 

So the life of the British, and foreign workers there, is stipulated by British law, not by the E.U..

 

I gave you an example about the autonomy of each country, by stipulating that my country decided to give a decent pension to its elderly, which I am part of.

 

The U.K. has always have that autonomy too, they could/can decide to do the same as my country if they wish too.

 

The E.U. has no any power to interfere.

 

If you don't want to admit this, I am afraid I will have to catalogue you as a truth dismisser, with an agenda based on falsehoods.

 

Once again, I personally don't have any problem that the U.K. decided, in a democratic way, to leave the E.U..

 

However I detest when some use fabrications to try to make a point,

this is no more about having a difference of opinion.

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

Being part of the E.U. is accepting  the rules, one of them is freedom of movement, but every country has the right to impose his own regulations on its citizens and immigrants.

 

So the life of the British, and foreign workers there, is stipulated by British law, not by the E.U..

 

I gave you an example about the autonomy of each country, by stipulating that my country decided to give a decent pension to its elderly, which I am part of.

 

The U.K. has always have that autonomy too, they could/can decide to do the same as my country if they wish too.

 

The E.U. has no any power to interfere.

 

If you don't want to admit this, I am afraid I will have to catalogue you as a truth dismisser, with an agenda based on falsehoods.

 

Once again, I personally don't have any problem that the U.K. decided, in a democratic way, to leave the E.U..

 

However I detest when some use fabrications to try to make a point,

this is no more about having a difference of opinion.

The eu has no power to interfere?tell that to jimmy clitheroe.

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

The eu has no power to interfere?tell that to jimmy clitheroe.

I think it's you, sorry if I am wrong, that refer already to that person died in 1973.

 

I still don't see the relevance.

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

I think it's you, sorry if I am wrong, that refer already to that person died in 1973.

 

I still don't see the relevance.

Nor do i give it a rest end of discussion

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[uncleP]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 No, I cannot see the UK becoming a tax haven; but it was not I who brought the idea up!

 

 

Nor was it me. It has been mentioned in political  discourse over the "Brexit" period

[transam]

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

You could always come back to live in the UK now we are free of what you believe to be the shackles of a Franco/German hegemony!

I am in my retirement home, how about you...?   ????

[RayC]

12 hours ago, 473geo said:

you appear well informed if not equipped

Thank you for the compliment. I've always believed that informed opinion is better than uninformed.

 

Imo my equipment's fine - but I'm probably not the best person to rate such things. However, I don't believe that you are in a position to pass comment on it either. (Are you?)

[7by7]

16 hours ago, 473geo said:

My understanding is that many involved in agriculture work from home, where do you think they work in city?

 I think they work in the hills, fields, greenhouses etc., not from their front rooms!

 

I notice that you have again forgotten the 2.7 million plus who work in manufacturing!

[7by7]

16 hours ago, kingdong said:

And whats the habitual residence test? Being in the uk under the freedom of movement act?

 I have twice before provided you with a link to the government site which explains it. Here it is again: habitual resident test. (Click on the blue bit.)

 

14 hours ago, kingdong said:

What about the 2 million eu citizens residing in the uk working in the gig economies on zero hour contracts on bogus self employed contracts then claiming tax and housing credits( a form of benefit with a fancy name ) so they take from our economy not contribute,for said industries to work they require a surplus of workers,which under eu current freedom of movement the uk is unable to stop,obviously not all migrants are claiming tax and housing credits but a large percentage are.there is goung to be a bloodbath of job losses early next year to the delight of the remainers who will shout from the rooftops " its because of brexit "when its actually down to the covid panademic,a lot of people are going to find themselves unemployed with no hope of getting a job in the near future,some harsh governing will need to occur which britain will be able to do without being hamstrung thru eu legislation.on my last point i sincerely hope i,m wrong,however whilst reading the future was never my strong point i did manage to master simple arithmetic.

 It is obvious from the above rant, and precious ones from yourself, that understanding the rules and regulations on UK government websites isn't one of your strongpoints either!

[7by7]

8 hours ago, transam said:

I am in my retirement home, 

 

You don't live in the UK, though!

 

8 hours ago, transam said:

how about you...?   ????

 Not retired yet.

 

Neither I am telling everyone how wonderful post Brexit UK will be and those who disagree should move to a EU country! 

Edited November 10, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[sammieuk1]

Getting close to the oven ready better out than in deal every day then merry Christmas from the Spanish fishermen of old London town north sea division????

[Susco]

11 hours ago, kingdong said:

I stated as  to how i considered being in the eu affected the lives of british workers,

Maybe you should wait 6 months, and then state how not being in the EU affects the lives of British workers, though my belief is that there will be less British workers at that time