Customs regulations on the export of gold.

[griffon2011]

I have a couple of American Eagle 1 oz gold coins that I would like to take with me when I leave Thailand along with a few 1 baht gold bracelets.  I understand that there are some restrictions but they are not clear and I want to do this legally.  

[Airalee]

I don’t think that it will be an issue personally.  I have always travelled with a gold coin or two and the one time I was questioned about it in the customs and immigration transit area at Incheon airport, I told them that I always carry a little bit of gold with me just in case the world breaks down while I’m traveling.  Yes...I know...paranoid...But they understood and were cool with it and sent me on my way.
 

 I do however consider them to be “monetary instruments” as it says on those forms you have to fill out and when I would also carry cash, I would value the gold and keep the sum of both cash and gold under the $10,000 allotment.

[RocketDog]

If you are entering or leaving America beware that even if you declare the monetary instruments, regardless of the value, they can be seized by DHS as suspected in drug trade. They will give you a receipt and you may or may not ever see your assets again. If you do it may require an attorney costing more than the assets are worth. 

 

Asset seizure has become a popular way for federal /state/local authorities to supplement their funding 'legally'. 

 

It probably won't happen if you're white male but can. 

[griffon2011]

53 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

If you are entering or leaving America beware that even if you declare the monetary instruments, regardless of the value, they can be seized by DHS as suspected in drug trade. They will give you a receipt and you may or may not ever see your assets again. If you do it may require an attorney costing more than the assets are worth. 

 

Asset seizure has become a popular way for federal /state/local authorities to supplement their funding 'legally'. 

 

It probably won't happen if you're white male but can. 

I was aware of that BS tactic and would never enter/leave the US with any assets but was curious about the Thai laws.  Probably best to try and sell here but it is difficult to sell the American Eagles in Thailand for a decent price.  I was quoted a price about $400 US below spot!  

[oznomad]

Assuming the 1 baht bracelets are 96.5, I would sell them before departure. The colour of Thai gold, and the lower fineness may well cause issues later.

I may be interested in the eagles, if you are in the vicinity of the world famous family resort.

 

[griffon2011]

12 hours ago, oznomad said:

Assuming the 1 baht bracelets are 96.5, I would sell them before departure. The colour of Thai gold, and the lower fineness may well cause issues later.

I may be interested in the eagles, if you are in the vicinity of the world famous family resort.

 

Private message me regarding the Eagles.  I live within a 3 minute walk of the Ari bts.  I don't understand your reference to the "world famous family resort. 

[Salerno]

47 minutes ago, griffon2011 said:

"world famous family resort. 

 

= Pattaya.

 

Got to love the guys at TAT 

[RocketDog]

Another option is to ship the assets DHL or FedEx. Insurance is steep but I've taken delivery of metals this way several times from Canada to USA. 

For the jewelry I agree with other posters, just sell it. Naturally enough the USD is weak right now. ????

[Airalee]

19 hours ago, griffon2011 said:

I was aware of that BS tactic and would never enter/leave the US with any assets but was curious about the Thai laws.  Probably best to try and sell here but it is difficult to sell the American Eagles in Thailand for a decent price.  I was quoted a price about $400 US below spot!  

From what I have experienced, it’s difficult to sell any non Thai gold here for anything more than about 20% under spot.  The only place you might want to try is Huasengheng, but when I called them, they had a minimum buy of 1kg for foreign bullion coins or bars.  You’re probably better off selling the bracelets here (if there is no sentimental value) and bringing the coins back home.

[Airalee]

31 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Another option is to ship the assets DHL or FedEx. Insurance is steep but I've taken delivery of metals this way several times from Canada to USA. 

For the jewelry I agree with other posters, just sell it. Naturally enough the USD is weak right now. ????

I’m guessing you bought from Kitco?  I don’t remember who Apmex used when I purchased from them as it was so long ago, but DHL appears to be a non option.

 

https://www.dhlparcel.nl/en/consumer/support/sending/not-allowed-ship

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[griffon2011]

Home will be in South America not the US and I don't even want to transit the US when I leave Thailand. I had intended to leave them with my niece in LA but the risk seems too great as I no longer have any receipts.  I will sell the bracelets as suggested and take the hit on the Eagles as I bought them 20 years ago so its not like I am taking a loss. Anyone interested can PM me here.  

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

I’m guessing you bought from Kitco?  I don’t remember who Apmex used when I purchased from them as it was so long ago, but DHL appears to be a non option.

 

https://www.dhlparcel.nl/en/consumer/support/sending/not-allowed-ship

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Correct. Thinking more I believe it was FedEx. 

[Airalee]

18 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Correct. Thinking more I believe it was FedEx. 

Just did a quick search.  Looks like FedEx won’t ship any PMs either.  Heck...the won’t even ship costume jewelry or watches either.  Seems as if times have changed since I last bought gold.

 

Good write up about it here...

 

https://sdbullion.com/blog/does-fedex-ship-gold

[Airalee]

Here is another issue that the OP should be aware of (and most people aren’t)...which pertains to US citizens (cannot speak for any other country)

 

When selling gold, there are capital gains taxes.  Hopefully you kept your receipts because if you bought from the US Mint, you probably paid a significant premium above what you would pay when buying from a gold dealer (Kitco, Apmex, California Numismatic Investments etc).

 

The capital gains taxes are not the same as when selling a stock.  It is taxed as a collectible.  From what I have read, my understanding is that rate is your highest income tax rate but caps out at 28%.  Check with your accountant to make sure.

 

Of course, if you read the Kitco forums (or any gold forum), you will see all the people blathering on about “nobody will know I sold it”, “lost it in a boating accident” etc etc.  Well...speaking for myself...I’m sure not about to try to cheat the IRS and even if I sold them in Thailand  (which requires a copy of your passport to buy and sell), or any other country, I would report it.

 

Death and taxes.  It is what it is.

 

 

[Sighto]

On 11/13/2020 at 1:56 PM, RocketDog said:

It probably won't happen if you're white male but can. 

Ohh ! Why is that ?

Is there finally a special " affirmative action " in favor of White male carrying gold ?

Are White women more at risk to be searched than a man ?

[griffon2011]

17 minutes ago, Sighto said:

Ohh ! Why is that ?

Is there finally a special " affirmative action " in favor of White male carrying gold ?

Are White women more at risk to be searched than a man ?

Save your social justice warrior BS for another forum, but since you mentioned it maybe I want to use up some of that "white privilege" all you SJWs are always yakking about. 

[RocketDog]

40 minutes ago, Sighto said:

Ohh ! Why is that ?

Is there finally a special " affirmative action " in favor of White male carrying gold ?

Are White women more at risk to be searched than a man ?

I'm simply stating the reality of being profiled. It should be obvious that people of color are more likely to scrutinized and victimized than whites by USA customs. I'm not sure gender would come into it but wouldn't be surprised. 

In the USA right now Civil Asset Forfeiture is proving very lucrative in many states and, yes, people of color are more likely affected; statistics show this trend. 

I'm not making any social or class judgments. If you want to be enraged or offended please do so but that's on you. 

 

[RocketDog]

5 hours ago, Airalee said:

Here is another issue that the OP should be aware of (and most people aren’t)...which pertains to US citizens (cannot speak for any other country)

 

When selling gold, there are capital gains taxes.  Hopefully you kept your receipts because if you bought from the US Mint, you probably paid a significant premium above what you would pay when buying from a gold dealer (Kitco, Apmex, California Numismatic Investments etc).

 

The capital gains taxes are not the same as when selling a stock.  It is taxed as a collectible.  From what I have read, my understanding is that rate is your highest income tax rate but caps out at 28%.  Check with your accountant to make sure.

 

Of course, if you read the Kitco forums (or any gold forum), you will see all the people blathering on about “nobody will know I sold it”, “lost it in a boating accident” etc etc.  Well...speaking for myself...I’m sure not about to try to cheat the IRS and even if I sold them in Thailand  (which requires a copy of your passport to buy and sell), or any other country, I would report it.

 

Death and taxes.  It is what it is.

 

 

I know for a fact that no identification of any kind was required when I bought and sold 23k gold jewelry in Thailand. I don't know about bullion.  I am equally sure that there are places in Thailand that buy bullion without asking questions about the provenance of your bullion or your personal information. Gold melts at reasonably low temperatures and I suspect gold shops here would be willing to purchase gold lumps near the spot price after routinely verifying its purity. This fact makes it pretty easy to buy and sell here at a profit known only to the seller. 

 

The USA has no regulations requiring reporting bullion stored offshore. So it follows that the irs would have no knowledge of sales offshore either. 

Metals sold to Kitco in Canada are  not reported to reported to foreign governments according to Kitco. There are vaults in Singapore and other countries with the same practice. 

 

I'm certainly not advocating tax fraud and tax matters are best left to the people making these transactions. It's a big world with myriad tax laws. 

[Airalee]

37 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I know for a fact that no identification of any kind was required when I bought and sold 23k gold jewelry in Thailand. I don't know about bullion.  I am equally sure that there are places in Thailand that buy bullion without asking questions about the provenance of your bullion or your personal information. Gold melts at reasonably low temperatures and I suspect gold shops here would be willing to purchase gold lumps near the spot price after routinely verifying its purity. This fact makes it pretty easy to buy and sell here at a profit known only to the seller. 

 

The USA has no regulations requiring reporting bullion stored offshore. So it follows that the irs would have no knowledge of sales offshore either. 

Metals sold to Kitco in Canada are  not reported to reported to foreign governments according to Kitco. There are vaults in Singapore and other countries with the same practice. 

 

I'm certainly not advocating tax fraud and tax matters are best left to the people making these transactions. It's a big world with myriad tax laws. 

Last month, I bought a 1 baht bar (Thai) at the gold shop in the Changwattana immigration building and had to give them my passport to copy. That is the only gold I have bought in Thailand.  My girlfriend says that whenever she has bought or sold gold, they don’t take ID when she buys but do so every time she has sold.  Of course, I’m sure it all depends on the shop.
 

With regards to selling western bullion here... I took a 1oz gold brittania and a Valcambi bar (still in the sealed assay plastic packaging) to about a half a dozen gold shops both on the street and in the mall (Aurora Gold).  Only one shop was willing to buy and their offer was 20% below spot and that was only for the Valcambi and only if I would let them crack it open and test it first.  Of course, I said no as I wasn’t desperate for such a lowball offer.  They had no interest in the Brittania.   All the other shops waved me off.  
 

Whatever the laws may be regarding taxation...that is why I suggested that people ask their accountant in order to be sure.  Whatever the case, gold seems to be a discouraged investment for Americans outside of an IRA.  

[RocketDog]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

Last month, I bought a 1 baht bar (Thai) at the gold shop in the Changwattana immigration building and had to give them my passport to copy. That is the only gold I have bought in Thailand.  My girlfriend says that whenever she has bought or sold gold, they don’t take ID when she buys but do so every time she has sold.  Of course, I’m sure it all depends on the shop.
 

With regards to selling western bullion here... I took a 1oz gold brittania and a Valcambi bar (still in the sealed assay plastic packaging) to about a half a dozen gold shops both on the street and in the mall (Aurora Gold).  Only one shop was willing to buy and their offer was 20% below spot and that was only for the Valcambi and only if I would let them crack it open and test it first.  Of course, I said no as I wasn’t desperate for such a lowball offer.  They had no interest in the Brittania.   All the other shops waved me off.  
 

Whatever the laws may be regarding taxation...that is why I suggested that people ask their accountant in order to be sure.  Whatever the case, gold seems to be a discouraged investment for Americans outside of an IRA.  

I agree on all your points. It is easy to understand why gold has been downplayed by the United States government for years; fiat currency is always threatened an international standard. 

 

Jewelry is the only way I would attempt to buy or sell gold or silver in Thailand. Their are simply too many shops here and they are controlled far worse than the traffic laws are enforced here. As far as I can tell the vast majority of gold shops here quote virtually the same prices and do business honestly. The last time I bought I ask for a receipt. The shop owner took his business card, wrote the date and details of the transaction on the back, and handed it to me. He would have done business the same way with me regardless if I has two heads and four legs I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure any shops here that didn't deal fairly would quickly be identified and pretty soon be out of business.

[Airalee]

7 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Their are simply too many shops here

I’ve always wondered what the deal is with all the gold shops...and Top Charoen and 7-11s.  Haha.  

[griffon2011]

41 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I agree on all your points. It is easy to understand why gold has been downplayed by the United States government for years; fiat currency is always threatened an international standard. 

 

Jewelry is the only way I would attempt to buy or sell gold or silver in Thailand. Their are simply too many shops here and they are controlled far worse than the traffic laws are enforced here. As far as I can tell the vast majority of gold shops here quote virtually the same prices and do business honestly. The last time I bought I ask for a receipt. The shop owner took his business card, wrote the date and details of the transaction on the back, and handed it to me. He would have done business the same way with me regardless if I has two heads and four legs I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure any shops here that didn't deal fairly would quickly be identified and pretty soon be out of business.

I have been buying gold bullion and jewelry here in Thailand for 10 years and its only within the last two years or so that they occasionally ask for an ID.  I never had a problem but only use Hua Seng Heng on Yaowarat in Chinatown or their other shop in Seacon Square. They have a very good reputation.  This shop has been around for 90-100 years and most Thais know about it.  It will be packed with people and nearby shops are empty.  I don't buy gold as an investment but as an insurance against the fiat banking system and have done well over the years.  If you want to speculate in gold buy some of the mining companies which are undervalued now.  Everyone understands gold in Asia but almost no one in the US.  I probably would not own any in the US.