Graphics Card Upgrade.

[Jockstar]

Recently i posted a thread regarding upgrading a few things on my Pc. This is a side note from that. I currently have a Gefore FX5900 Nividia card. I want to upgrade to a faster newer card with at least pixel shading 2. I know that the PCI express cards are the go. Unfortunately i dont have a mother board that supports PCI -e so i have to go for a AGP card. What is the best and fastest card i can get ? Not stressed about the money. But whats the best. 6600 was mentioned by someone. Cheers in advance.

[Guest Reimar]

Recently i posted a thread regarding upgrading a few things on my Pc. This is a side note from that. I currently have a Gefore FX5900 Nividia card. I want to upgrade to a faster newer card with at least pixel shading 2. I know that the PCI express cards are the go. Unfortunately i dont have a mother board that supports PCI -e so i have to go for a AGP card. What is the best and fastest card i can get ? Not stressed about the money. But whats the best. 6600 was mentioned by someone. Cheers in advance.

If tou don't find a card which has your requirement, may you update your driver.

The best Driver for Nvidia and ATI, special for gaming, you'll find at: Guru3d.com and dna-drivers.nl

[Richard-BKK]

I belief that the best what you now can buy for AGP are VGA cards based on a Nvidia 7600GT chipset.

[cali]

But whats the best. 6600 was mentioned by someone. Cheers in advance.

The 6600 is several generations old and way too slow to be even considered an entry level card today. Do they even sell it anymore? You said the best, and the best is the X1950 XT which may set you back in the 9000 baht range. Below is from an article. Follow the link to see the best cards at lower prices. The best Thanni has is the lowly 7900GS for nearly the same price (gasp) as this card.

The X1950 XT - manufactured exclusively by Gecube - is simply the most powerful card ever to grace the AGP bus. This card has no direct competition; in fact, its closest competition is its X1950 PRO AGP sibling, which is much less powerful.

At $270, it is a bit of a tough pill to swallow for a dying interface. I would only recommend the X1950 XT AGP to someone with a very fast AGP system who already has a power supply with enough juice to handle the card. It must be noted, however, that if you have $270 to spend on an AGP card - and potentially an extra $100 for a power supply that can handle it - you may be much better off purchasing a PCI Express motherboard, CPU and PCIe video card. PCIe video cards are cheaper than their AGP cousins. If you upgrade your system to PCI-E and sell your old components, you may actually spend a similar amount of money compared to buying an expensive AGP card alone.

Source: The best Video Gaming Cards for the Money: May 2007

[solo siam]

You'd get more performance out of switching the motherboard to a PCI-Express one and adding a PCI-Express graphics card, AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

[cali]

...AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

False. The AGP GeCube mentioned above will blow away just about every single PCI-Express card made today, save the big daddy 8800's. The GeCube is brand new and uses ATI's very latest and most sophisticated chip, performing close to the same chip running on PCI-express.

[Jockstar]

...AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

False. The AGP GeCube mentioned above will blow away just about every single PCI-Express card made today, save the big daddy 8800's. The GeCube is brand new and uses ATI's very latest and most sophisticated chip, performing close to the same chip running on PCI-express.

What about the 7600GT? I have read that thats a pretty good card.

[Tywais]

What about the 7600GT? I have read that thats a pretty good card.

From this review it seems quite the performer > Hardwarezone

I have a EN6600GTX 512MB but it is PCI-e and have not found a game it can't handle. After upgrading to a E6600 core2duo I decided to reload my MS Sim-X game. Set all video features at maximum (ultra-high) and 1280x1024 and no problems at all including no hesitation in motion, something I couldn't do with my AMD 3800X2 with the same card.

I suspect if you use the 7600GT your limit will no longer be the video card but the MB/CPU/Memory. Will run around 7000 Baht except for the Leadtech which is a high end brand. Though looking at the above review, you will see they are not using a very high end system.

[Jockstar]

Have just been comparing some pics of my existing card FX5900 to the 7600Gt. The cards slots look different. Have a look at what i mean.

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view....;cid=3&pg=1

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2003q4/g...xt/index.x?pg=1

[Tywais]

Those are the AGP voltage type keys. Several flavors of AGP have been developed from higher voltage versions (3.3V) to as low as .8V versions. The card you have is a universal card which will support mainboards with either 3.3V or 1.5V. The 7600 appears to be a 1.5V version. So will depend on your motherboard if it excepts it or not (how the card slot keys are located). Could you tell us the brand and model of your mainboard again? If you look at the AGP slot on the mainboard, how many keys are in it and where located (front, back, none).

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

http://www.motherboards.org/articles/tech-...ions/920_4.html

http://pinouts.ru/Slots/agp_pinout.shtml

[solo siam]

...AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

False. The AGP GeCube mentioned above will blow away just about every single PCI-Express card made today, save the big daddy 8800's. The GeCube is brand new and uses ATI's very latest and most sophisticated chip, performing close to the same chip running on PCI-express.

Thats not true.

You could purchase a new motherboard AND an 8800GTS for nearly that price, which would absolutely blow away the 1950 - especially on AGP, the new motherboard will allow faster RAM, run quicker and allow easy future upgrades. The 1950 isn't even a DX10 card, what you are suggesting is buying $500 tires for your $200 car, pointless.

Everything but the 8800 series of graphics cards will struggle to run games at full pace, I have a 6600GT (AGP) and its a struggle to run newer games at even 1/3 to 1/2 details.

[Jockstar]

Those are the AGP voltage type keys. Several flavors of AGP have been developed from higher voltage versions (3.3V) to as low as .8V versions. The card you have is a universal card which will support mainboards with either 3.3V or 1.5V. The 7600 appears to be a 1.5V version. So will depend on your motherboard if it excepts it or not (how the card slot keys are located). Could you tell us the brand and model of your mainboard again? If you look at the AGP slot on the mainboard, how many keys are in it and where located (front, back, none).

http://www.playtool.com/pages/agpcompat/agp.html

http://www.motherboards.org/articles/tech-...ions/920_4.html

http://pinouts.ru/Slots/agp_pinout.shtml

Heres some more info on my PC if it helps.

Operating System System Model

Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (build 2600) Enclosure Type: Desktop

Processor a Main Circuit Board b

1.80 gigahertz AMD Athlon 64

128 kilobyte primary memory cache

512 kilobyte secondary memory cache Board: MS-7025

Bus Clock: 200 megahertz

BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD 6.00 PG 11/22/2004

Drives Memory Modules c,d

163.92 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity

40.84 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1P [CD-ROM drive]

RF5327D VJV616B SCSI CdRom Device [CD-ROM drive]

TSSTcorp CD/DVDW TS-H552U [CD-ROM drive]

3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

6Y160L4 [Hard drive] (163.93 GB) -- drive 0, rev YAR41BW0, SMART Status: Healthy 1024 Megabytes Installed Memory

Slot 'A0' has 512 MB

Slot 'A1' is Empty

Slot 'A2' has 512 MB

Slot 'A3' is Empty

Local Drive Volumes

c: (NTFS on drive 0) 163.92 GB 40.84 GB free

Network Drives

None detected

Users (mouse over user name for details) Printers

local user accounts last logon

Administrator 5/5/2550 22:51:03 (admin)

local system accounts

Guest never

HelpAssistant never

SUPPORT_388945a0 never

Marks a disabled account; Marks a locked account Canon MP160 Printer on USB001

CAPTURE FAX BVRP on NUL:

Controllers Display

Standard floppy disk controller

NVIDIA nForce3 250 Parallel ATA Controller (v2.6)

NVIDIA nForce3 250 Serial ATA Controller (v2.6) (2x) NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 [Display adapter]

BenQ FP91G+ [Monitor] (19.1"vis, ¾ÄȨԡÒ¹ 2005)

Default Monitor (3x)

Bus Adapters Multimedia

SCSI/RAID Host Controller

Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller

Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller (2x) Realtek AC'97 Audio

Communications Other Devices

Communications cable between two computers [Modem]

1394 Net Adapter

LanRoad on NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller

Motorola SURFboard SB5101 USB Cable Modem

primary Auto IP Address: 121.209.161.52 / 21

Gateway: 121.209.160.1

Dhcp Server: 172.18.50.149

Physical Address: 00:16:B5:25:6C:8C

NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller

Dhcp Server: 172.18.50.149

Physical Address: 00:11:09:C9:AF:DD

Networking Dns Servers: 61.9.194.49

61.9.195.193

VIA OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller

Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard

PS/2 Compatible Mouse

NVIDIA Network Bus Enumerator

USB Root Hub (3x)

Virus Protection [back to Top]

McAfee VirusScan Version 10.0.27

Scan Engine Version 5100

Virus Definitions Version 5024

Last Disk Scan on 8 àÁÉÒ¹ 2550 20:39:23

Realtime File Scanning On

[cali]

...AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

False. The AGP GeCube mentioned above will blow away just about every single PCI-Express card made today, save the big daddy 8800's. The GeCube is brand new and uses ATI's very latest and most sophisticated chip, performing close to the same chip running on PCI-express.

Thats not true.

Read this primer and come back when you have a clue.

[solo siam]

...AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

False. The AGP GeCube mentioned above will blow away just about every single PCI-Express card made today, save the big daddy 8800's. The GeCube is brand new and uses ATI's very latest and most sophisticated chip, performing close to the same chip running on PCI-express.

Thats not true.

Read this primer and come back when you have a clue.

Thanks you just proved my point....

"To answer this question, we tested a GeForce 7600 GT and Radeon X1950 Pro in their AGP and PCI Express versions"

"Differences were nevertheless minimal, and we can’t really say that a more recent graphic card will be restrained by an AGP bus even if its performances are generally 2-3% lower"

The 7600GT is almost half as powerful as the 8800GTS, hence the x1950 pro is almost half (give or take 2-3%) as powerful as a 8800GTS.

[cali]

...AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

False. The AGP GeCube mentioned above will blow away just about every single PCI-Express card made today, save the big daddy 8800's. The GeCube is brand new and uses ATI's very latest and most sophisticated chip, performing close to the same chip running on PCI-express.

Thats not true.

Read this primer and come back when you have a clue.

Thanks you just proved my point....

"To answer this question, we tested a GeForce 7600 GT and Radeon X1950 Pro in their AGP and PCI Express versions"

"Differences were nevertheless minimal, and we can't really say that a more recent graphic card will be restrained by an AGP bus even if its performances are generally 2-3% lower"

The 7600GT is almost half as powerful as the 8800GTS, hence the x1950 pro is almost half (give or take 2-3%) as powerful as a 8800GTS.

Dude, of course the 8800 is way faster and I already said that in my post! Your assertion that AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games is just plain false. Chip for chip, AGP is nearly the same speed as PCI express. It is therefore ridiculous to claim that ATI's newest, most expensive, state of the art cards won't run most of the newer games.

[solo siam]

...AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

False. The AGP GeCube mentioned above will blow away just about every single PCI-Express card made today, save the big daddy 8800's. The GeCube is brand new and uses ATI's very latest and most sophisticated chip, performing close to the same chip running on PCI-express.

Thats not true.

Read this primer and come back when you have a clue.

Thanks you just proved my point....

"To answer this question, we tested a GeForce 7600 GT and Radeon X1950 Pro in their AGP and PCI Express versions"

"Differences were nevertheless minimal, and we can't really say that a more recent graphic card will be restrained by an AGP bus even if its performances are generally 2-3% lower"

The 7600GT is almost half as powerful as the 8800GTS, hence the x1950 pro is almost half (give or take 2-3%) as powerful as a 8800GTS.

Dude, of course the 8800 is way faster and I already said that in my post! Your assertion that AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games is just plain false. Chip for chip, AGP is nearly the same speed as PCI express. It is therefore ridiculous to claim that ATI's newest, most expensive, state of the art cards won't run most of the newer games.

Most of the newer games coming out are DX10 so no the X1950 will not be able to run them at their full potential, IMO its a waste to spend that much money now on a last generation AGP graphics card.

Also that AGP card is 20% more expensive than the equivelant PCI-Express card, why pay a premium for dated technology?

[JimsKnight]

You'd get more performance out of switching the motherboard to a PCI-Express one and adding a PCI-Express graphics card, AGP won't cut it with most of the newer games.

The AGP gainward 512 Mb Graphics card is the last of the great AGP graphics cards even this struggles a little with the latest games though...

[Tywais]

Also that AGP card is 20% more expensive than the equivelant PCI-Express card, why pay a premium for dated technology?

I believe Jockstar has not expressed interest in upgrading his mainboard, cpu and memory (based on another post of his) in order to be able to support a PCI-express card but what would be a good choice for his existing system at a reasonable price. Back to the topic, sorry Jockstar but that list tells nothing about the specific motherboard you have or AGP card slot (1x,2x,4x,8x).

Did the shop give you the manual for the mainboard when you bought it? If we can get the exact brand and model of the motherboard should be easy enough to determine if the 7600GT will work in it. Or if you can pull the video card and look at the card slot and see if it is keyed and at what position. Or take it to a shop and verify if the slot will work with 1.5V AGP cards.

[Richard-BKK]

Love it, people talking about PCIe cards, but read the question again. This person asking about what is possible with AGP.

Quick calculation for changing to a PCIe mainboard, cheap mainboard 3000 Baht, cheap DDR2 memory 2x 512MB =3300 Baht, VGA card 5000 Baht, processor 6000 Baht is already about 17,300 Baht.

17,300 Baht is surely something else as just paying 5000 Baht for a good Asus 7600GT 256MB VGA card?

[Tywais]

17,300 Baht is surely something else as just paying 5000 Baht for a good Asus 7600GT 256MB VGA card?

Totally agree and will have to wait for Jockstar for more information about the AGP slot he has on the mainboard. This card is fine for all but the absolute high end games and then the limitation will be CPU/memory as much as video at that point.

[solo siam]

Love it, people talking about PCIe cards, but read the question again. This person asking about what is possible with AGP.

Quick calculation for changing to a PCIe mainboard, cheap mainboard 3000 Baht, cheap DDR2 memory 2x 512MB =3300 Baht, VGA card 5000 Baht, processor 6000 Baht is already about 17,300 Baht.

17,300 Baht is surely something else as just paying 5000 Baht for a good Asus 7600GT 256MB VGA card?

He can just change the motherboard, no need to upgrade the memory or CPU - He said money wasn't a problem and somebody suggested a 10,000 Baht AGP card, My point was a 3,000 motherboard with PCI Express and a 7,000 baht PCI Express graphics card would be money better spent.

7600GT won't play new games particularly well (perhaps medium settings). Which may well be fine, but spending that sort of money on an AGP graphics card that will not be able to be used ever again if he wants to upgrade his PC at some stage seems wasteful.

[cali]

He said money wasn't a problem and somebody suggested a 10,000 Baht AGP card

Please stop skewing the facts. Someone answered the question of what is the BEST AGP CARD (not recommended it) and in that very post was this: If you upgrade your system to PCI-E and sell your old components, you may actually spend a similar amount of money compared to buying an expensive AGP card alone.

Most of the newer games coming out are DX10

You have a real problem admitting you are wrong. You have now skewed your post away from "most of the newer games" to a new tune of FUTURE games because is there even one DX10 game shipping today? The newest (not just newer) games run better on high end DX9 AGP/PCI express card than low end 8600 DX10 PCI express. It is furthermore unknown (unless you have some evidence) if that will change with DX10 games so even your new tune appears baseless.

My point was a 3,000 motherboard with PCI Express and a 7,000 baht PCI Express graphics card would be money better spent.

Bad advice--don't blow 3000 baht for a 2-3% performance gain. If all you are going to do is buy a 7000 baht card, then a mobo upgrade is pointless because the same class AGP card will perform similarly.

[Jockstar]

Ok. Just looked out the books that came with the mother board. This is what i have.

NVIDIA nForce 3 Ultra Chipset Based

K8N Neo 2 Platinum Edition

designed for AMD Athlon 64 processors

Does that make more sense?

Edited May 6, 2007 by Jockstar

[solo siam]

He said money wasn't a problem and somebody suggested a 10,000 Baht AGP card

Please stop skewing the facts. Someone answered the question of what is the BEST AGP CARD (not recommended it) and in that very post was this: If you upgrade your system to PCI-E and sell your old components, you may actually spend a similar amount of money compared to buying an expensive AGP card alone.

Most of the newer games coming out are DX10

You have a real problem admitting you are wrong. You have now skewed your post away from "most of the newer games" to a new tune of FUTURE games because is there even one DX10 game shipping today? The newest (not just newer) games run better on high end DX9 AGP/PCI express card than low end 8600 DX10 PCI express. It is furthermore unknown (unless you have some evidence) if that will change with DX10 games so even your new tune appears baseless.

My point was a 3,000 motherboard with PCI Express and a 7,000 baht PCI Express graphics card would be money better spent.

Bad advice--don't blow 3000 baht for a 2-3% performance gain. If all you are going to do is buy a 7000 baht card, then a mobo upgrade is pointless because the same class AGP card will perform similarly.

No need to get so upset.

I just wouldnt recommend anyone buying an expensive graphics card that is AGP and without DX10, why limit yourself to having to upgrade again in 12-18 months time.

[Tywais]

K8N Neo 2 Platinum Edition

You said the magic word. That board, from looking at the pictures, shows that it supports 1.5V AGP cards (key is at the top of the slot) which means the 7600GT will work in it. From the specification page > One AGP (Accelerated Graphics Port) 1.5V 4X/8X slot.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjA3

PS: Also should consider topping up your memory >= 1GB for gaming.

For other members, please no more bickering.

[Richard-BKK]

One of my friends bought a Sparks Nvidia 7600GT card, it is compared to most other brands much cheaper, but comparing the actual speed and price I had something I paid to much for my Asus card....

This is just a advice, the card also comes with 3 years warranty....

One GB memory is for any Windows XP computer now-a-days a advice, honestly I have to say that I run on most of my computers Windows 2000 Professional.

Windows 2000 Professional can do most of the stuff Windows XP can but uses much less memory and is with the latest updates and up-to-date-drivers much faster then Windows XP ever will be.

[dttk0009]

I recently just acquired a new computer, going from an AMD 2500+, 512Mb RAM and an ATI Radeon 9600XT (which was fantastic for the price back then), to a C2D and 2G RAM. Needless to say, this computer came with a <deleted> card (X1300) for gaming, so I'll be picking up the 8800GTS next month or so. Both the computer and the card possess incredible overclocking capabilities, not to mention that the card comes with DX10. If money isn't a problem, then I wouldn't bother with an AGP card these days anymore, though the 7600GT does perform quite well for its money's worth.

Here, I looked up the comparison chart on Tom's Hardware, and the results pretty much speak for themselves:

I guess you get what you pay for.

Edited May 6, 2007 by dttk0009

[Jockstar]

PS: Also should consider topping up your memory >= 1GB for gaming.

Already got 1Gb but i'm gonna add another 1gb. No i just got to work out what RAM sticks i have.(ie Brand) etc.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Jockstar

[manutoo]

Hello Jockstar,

your current CPU won't get the most of the latest Gecube X1950XT (and anyway u may not find it in Thailand), and it's not coz of AGP.

I know what I'm talking about, I just bought it..!

So, I have 2 PCs. My "old" AGP PC is a P4c 2.6ghz which is quite more powerful than your AMD 1.8ghz (at very least 30%).

Increasing its speed to 2.92ghz increased the result of the 3Dmark05 benchmark by ~10%, up to ~6100 from 5600, so my new 3D card is clearly limited by my CPU (hopefully, not much when the CPU is at 2.92ghz).

My new PCI PC is an Amd 64 3500+, with a NVidia 7800GT card.

Its score with 3dMark05 is 5100 ; increasing the CPU speed by 10% didn't change the score, therefore the 7800GT card is not limited by the CPU.

So thanks to the brand new X1950XT, my "old" AGP PC is about 20% better than the "new" PCI one.

Both PCs are coupled with 2x512GB of Corsair CAS2 RAM.

So here what you should do : buy a 7600GT (the GT is quite important !) AGP card for about 6800b (for example, here : http://www.busitek.com/forms/pricelist.html ).

With it, you'll be able to run current games on medium settings, and 1-year old games on high settings, and 2+ year old games on very high settings, on resolution of 1024x768 or even 1280x960.

Don't buy an additional 1GB now, save this money, and save the money from the X1950XT to buy a Core2 Duo CPU on next year, with new RAM/3D card as well.

I hope it helps...

[Jockstar]

Hello Jockstar,

your current CPU won't get the most of the latest Gecube X1950XT (and anyway u may not find it in Thailand), and it's not coz of AGP.

I know what I'm talking about, I just bought it..!

So, I have 2 PCs. My "old" AGP PC is a P4c 2.6ghz which is quite more powerful than your AMD 1.8ghz (at very least 30%).

Increasing its speed to 2.92ghz increased the result of the 3Dmark05 benchmark by ~10%, up to ~6100 from 5600, so my new 3D card is clearly limited by my CPU (hopefully, not much when the CPU is at 2.92ghz).

My new PCI PC is an Amd 64 3500+, with a NVidia 7800GT card.

Its score with 3dMark05 is 5100 ; increasing the CPU speed by 10% didn't change the score, therefore the 7800GT card is not limited by the CPU.

So thanks to the brand new X1950XT, my "old" AGP PC is about 20% better than the "new" PCI one.

Both PCs are coupled with 2x512GB of Corsair CAS2 RAM.

So here what you should do : buy a 7600GT (the GT is quite important !) AGP card for about 6800b (for example, here : http://www.busitek.com/forms/pricelist.html ).

With it, you'll be able to run current games on medium settings, and 1-year old games on high settings, and 2+ year old games on very high settings, on resolution of 1024x768 or even 1280x960.

Don't buy an additional 1GB now, save this money, and save the money from the X1950XT to buy a Core2 Duo CPU on next year, with new RAM/3D card as well.

I hope it helps...

Can i buy an AMD Athlon 3500 processor and put it into my main board that i have? Then also buy the 7800GT card and then 1GB RAM. Will this speed my PC up greatly? BTW I'm in OZ now and not LOS.