Scotland's Sturgeon puts UK on independence warning: We want a referendum soon

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

How can 'once in lifetime' be an idiom when it means what it says. Maybe you could offer a link to substantiate it is an idiom, well you cannot, because it isn't, it is what it says, simples.

 

Is the statement "Once in a generation" legally binding yes or no?

 

Careful with your answer there vogie. If you pass any opinion on that, you'll get hit up with,

 

Question 2: Was the 2015 Brexit referendum non-binding, advisory and consultative?

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Good grief... A true Trainspotting moment. And there was me thinking that all Scots were gifted with a sense of irony.

 

 

Your graphic doesn't mention paranoia, irrational fears, far-fetched ideas and bizarre hallucinations.

 

 

 

Right so as far as you are concerned the Scots are bigots and racists who suffer from paranoia with irrational fears, far fetched ideas and bizarre hallucinations.

You on the other hand are a paragon of virtue and tolerance who just loves everyone?

Nah I think you are a classic English nationalist. 

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Not if you're a liar like the SNP.

 

That utterly fails to answer my question and you know that.

Is the "Once in a generation" statement legally binding? Yes or no?

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Right so as far as you are concerned the Scots are bigots and racists

 

Yes.

 

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

who suffer from paranoia with irrational fears, far fetched ideas and bizarre hallucinations.

 

Only the ones gurning for independence.

 

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You on the other hand are a paragon of virtue and tolerance who just loves everyone?

 

Close. But this is not about me is it?

 

PS: It's not about you either.

 

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Nah I think you are a classic English nationalist. 

 

Aye.... right...

 

[vogie]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

 

That utterly fails to answer my question and you know that.

Is the "Once in a generation" statement legally binding? Yes or no?

I think exhibit B should clarify and answer your question.

 

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think exhibit B should clarify and answer your question.

 

 

Given your deflection, again, I must assume that you know the statement "Once in a generation" is not legally binding (in the same way "dead in a ditch is not) and are simply unable to bring yourself to acknowledge that FACT.

So in the interest of clarification we will conduct all future correspondence on the premise that "Once in a generation" is not and never was legally binding.

See. We got there in the end Vogie. Its only taken about 3 months and 100 posts between us.   

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Yes.

 

 

Only the ones gurning for independence.

 

 

Close. But this is not about me is it?

 

PS: It's not about you either.

 

 

Aye.... right...

 

 

Well thanks for sharing the views of an English nationalist. Us Scots will take on board your views and give them careful consideration when we are voting on independence. 

[NanLaew]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Well thanks for sharing the views of an English nationalist. Us Scots will take on board your views and give them careful consideration when we are voting on independence. 

 

Oh dear... asserting one's 'true' nationality so early in the fray? it looks like our @Rookiescot's given up.

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Given your deflection, again, I must assume that you know the statement "Once in a generation" is not legally binding (in the same way "dead in a ditch is not) and are simply unable to bring yourself to acknowledge that FACT.

So in the interest of clarification we will conduct all future correspondence on the premise that "Once in a generation" is not and never was legally binding.

See. We got there in the end Vogie. Its only taken about 3 months and 100 posts between us.   

Don't be so presumptious, we haven't got anywhere, well you havny. "The Scots said no and they meant it."

The spoken word can be just as legally binding as the written word, now we have got there, finally, phew that was hard work.

[Baerboxer]

On 11/27/2020 at 3:27 PM, vogie said:

Anything to divert attention from the mess she is making with the Scottish economy, education and covid. Only the UK can split the UK up, not a one horse party.

 

Very true. Only the Westminster Government can establish an advisory referendum. It is not within her, or the Scottish Parliament's powers. 

 

But she's always like pretending she's more powerful than she actually is. After she met May for the first time after Brexit referendum, she claimed (according to The Scotsman which reported it) that she could veto Brexit. Then she ran off to the EU where Juncker refused, quite rightly so, to meet her. But she came back and claimed they'd all tipped her the wink that an independent Scotland would be granted immediate membership, which the EU hotly denied saying Scotland could apply and be treated like any other aspiring member; again reported in the media. Then we have the treatment of Alex Salmond. He testified at his trial he was approached and told the sex accusations against him might go away if he didn't challenge Sturgeon. The SNP and Parliament have not concluded this, much too busy with Covid. It's all gone quiet and seemingly being swept under the carpet. She's done next to nothing for the poor constituency she represents. Much to grand trying to play on the world stage. 

 

She just loves being the tail wagging the dog and trying to be the center of attention.

 

The reality is, that legally, she and the Scottish Parliament, are governed by Westminster; and that any attempt to hold a referendum and bypass the law isn't likely to end well.

 

I doubt Johnson, with his large majority will grant another referendum, so soon after the previous "once in a generation one". That means, whether she likes it or not, she has to wait until the next election and hope for a change in government that might be more accommodating to her.

 

But her "demands", speaking like she's the one who can lay the law down to everyone else, and trying to say how it will all be, simply rubs the majority of British people up the wrong way. 

 

Well done Blair and Brown for creating this mess. Rivalling Cameron. 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

 

Oh dear... asserting one's 'true' nationality so early in the fray? it looks like our @Rookiescot's given up.

 

What? Bit early for hitting the sauce is it not?

As I said. Us Scots will take your views on board when we are voting on independence.

We would not like all those fair minded English folks to be shackled to a nation of racists and bigots. 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Don't be so presumptious, we haven't got anywhere, well you havny. "The Scots said no and they meant it."

The spoken word can be just as legally binding as the written word, now we have got there, finally, phew that was hard work.

 

So you are claiming the statement "Once in a generation" is legally binding? Yes or no?

If its a yes does the statement "Dead in a ditch" also become legally binding?

[Baerboxer]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Well thanks for sharing the views of an English nationalist. Us Scots will take on board your views and give them careful consideration when we are voting on independence. 

 

You won't be voting for independence. Not unless Westminster call for an advisory referendum.

 

Remember referendums, under the UK's constitution can only be advisory. So even if a referendum was held, in Scotland or the whole UK, the result would be subject to parliamentary debate and vote. 

 

A minority cannot make the law up to suit themselves in the UK, or most any civilized country.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Very true. Only the Westminster Government can establish an advisory referendum. It is not within her, or the Scottish Parliament's powers. 

 

But she's always like pretending she's more powerful than she actually is. After she met May for the first time after Brexit referendum, she claimed (according to The Scotsman which reported it) that she could veto Brexit. Then she ran off to the EU where Juncker refused, quite rightly so, to meet her. But she came back and claimed they'd all tipped her the wink that an independent Scotland would be granted immediate membership, which the EU hotly denied saying Scotland could apply and be treated like any other aspiring member; again reported in the media. Then we have the treatment of Alex Salmond. He testified at his trial he was approached and told the sex accusations against him might go away if he didn't challenge Sturgeon. The SNP and Parliament have not concluded this, much too busy with Covid. It's all gone quiet and seemingly being swept under the carpet. She's done next to nothing for the poor constituency she represents. Much to grand trying to play on the world stage. 

 

She just loves being the tail wagging the dog and trying to be the center of attention.

 

The reality is, that legally, she and the Scottish Parliament, are governed by Westminster; and that any attempt to hold a referendum and bypass the law isn't likely to end well.

 

I doubt Johnson, with his large majority will grant another referendum, so soon after the previous "once in a generation one". That means, whether she likes it or not, she has to wait until the next election and hope for a change in government that might be more accommodating to her.

 

But her "demands", speaking like she's the one who can lay the law down to everyone else, and trying to say how it will all be, simply rubs the majority of British people up the wrong way. 

 

Well done Blair and Brown for creating this mess. Rivalling Cameron. 

 

So your only hope of keeping the union together is to refuse Scotland a referendum.

No very democratic that is it?

Here I was think those plucky Brexiteers were the very paragon of supporters of democracy.

They have assured me on many occasions they were. 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So you are claiming the statement "Once in a generation" is legally binding? Yes or no?

If its a yes does the statement "Dead in a ditch" also become legally binding?

 

I don't want to answer for another poster. But if this helps.

 

Once in a generation, in this case, clearly is not legally binding. Politicians no longer have ethics and regard hypocrisy and lying as tools of the trade, as we see time and time again. So nothing they say has any real meaning and can be reversed as soon as necessary to them.

 

Also worth remembering, the results of advisory referendums are not legally binding on governments and politicians either. They are an expression of the electorates wishes only. 

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Politicians no longer have ethics and regard hypocrisy and lying as tools of the trade, as we see time and time again.

So true.....how quickly standards have changed (fallen) since I was a kid.

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So your only hope of keeping the union together is to refuse Scotland a referendum.

No very democratic that is it?

Here I was think those plucky Brexiteers were the very paragon of supporters of democracy.

They have assured me on many occasions they were. 

 

The UK is not an absolute democracy it's a constitutional monarchy with an elected lower house and appointed upper house. 

 

AFAIK, Switzerland is the only European country that regularly uses binding referendums to determine key issues.

 

Btw, I didn't vote for Brexit, so assume your sarcasm it meant for others.

 

8% of the UK's population live in Scotland. To allow those 8% to determine whether the country breaks up or not, based on a simple majority of 51% or just over 4% of the population, doesn't seem very democratic. 

 

 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So you are claiming the statement "Once in a generation" is legally binding? Yes or no?

If its a yes does the statement "Dead in a ditch" also become legally binding?

Why don't you listen to your leaders "Alex Salmond pledged there would be no second referendum for "a generation", even if he lost by one vote."

 

Now does that sound like an idiom to you?

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

So true.....how quickly standards have changed (fallen) since I was a kid.

 

I remember, as an infant, how MP's, Bank Managers, accountants, lawyers, Councilors and Journalists & Broadcasters were all held in high esteem. Lapses in morals, behavior or being caught lying meant resigning and disgrace.

 

Now, all the standards seem to have gone. 

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

8% of the UK's population live in Scotland. To allow those 8% to determine whether the country breaks up or not, based on a simple majority of 51% or just over 4% of the population, doesn't seem very democratic. 

Interesting argument......how would that translate into the Brexit fiasco (I know you didn't vote for it)....should the EU have had a vote on the UK leaving (they may well have voted leave...55555)

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

Simple. You hate the English and will accept pretty much anything to be independent from us, even if that means leaving the UK to be subjugated by the EU. 

 

You do realise that your vastly misplaced exceptionalism is shining brightly, don't you? 

 

Scots want independence from the UK so it simply MUST be about England? It couldn't possibly be about Scots simply wanting Scots to be in charge of their affairs. No, because everything revolves round England, in your mind, it must be a reaction against England. 

 

Here's the thing. England, like the rest of the UK, stopped being relevant on the international stage 70 years ago. Now, we want independence to make Scotland better. It has nothing to do with England or our feelings towards the English. 

 

I am sorry that it hurts you to be so irrelevant but that's the facts of it. 

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Why don't you listen to your leaders "Alex Salmond pledged there would be no second referendum for "a generation", even if he lost by one vote."

 

Now does that sound like an idiom to you?

 An idiom is a figure of speech established by usage that has a meaning not necessarily deductible from those of the individual words.

 

Yes.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, Surelynot said:

Interesting argument......how would that translate into the Brexit fiasco (I know you didn't vote for it)....should the EU have had a vote on the UK leaving (they may well have voted leave...55555)

 

Unfortunately no. The UK is a sovereign state and was a member of the EU. The EU isn't a sovereign state, or federal state. Although some would like it to be. As such any member can give notice to leave.

 

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You do realise that your vastly misplaced exceptionalism is shining brightly, don't you? 

 

Scots want independence from the UK so it simply MUST be about England? It couldn't possibly be about Scots simply wanting Scots to be in charge of their affairs. No, because everything revolves round England, in your mind, it must be a reaction against England. 

 

Here's the thing. England, like the rest of the UK, stopped being relevant on the international stage 70 years ago. Now, we want independence to make Scotland better. It has nothing to do with England or our feelings towards the English. 

 

I am sorry that it hurts you to be so irrelevant but that's the facts of it. 

I am sorry to have to keep reminding you RR, Scotland doesn't want independence, only the minority SNP want it.

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

 

You think that Scots are ethnically closer to Europeans than our cousins south of the border?

Absolute tosh. 

 

  We are talking about race , I am just pointing out flaws in your claim that Scots cannot be racist because they choose to stay with a whole continent thats the same race as they are .

  You would have more of a claim if you stated that Scotland choose to leave the EU and to be affiliated with Countries who are from another race to them .

   BTW , I am not making the claim that Scots are racist , just pointing out your logic is flawed 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I am sorry to have to keep reminding you RR, Scotland doesn't want independence, only the minority SNP want it.

 

We have established this already, vogie. Since at least 2014, the majority of Scots want independence from the UK. Now, the majority of people hailing from all areas but living in Scotland wants independance. 

 

You can continue to live with your fingers in your ears, but facts are facts.

[luckyluke]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Politicians no longer have ethics and regard hypocrisy and lying as tools of the trade, as we see time and time again. So nothing they say has any real meaning and can be reversed as soon as necessary to them.

 

Oh, so true;

and everyone is conscious of it.

 

However,  if it may benefit/strengthen the opinion of one,  he will refer to the declaration of the politician, as being absolute truth.

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You do realise that your vastly misplaced exceptionalism is shining brightly, don't you? 

 

Scots want independence from the UK so it simply MUST be about England? It couldn't possibly be about Scots simply wanting Scots to be in charge of their affairs. No, because everything revolves round England, in your mind, it must be a reaction against England. 

 

Here's the thing. England, like the rest of the UK, stopped being relevant on the international stage 70 years ago. Now, we want independence to make Scotland better. It has nothing to do with England or our feelings towards the English. 

 

I am sorry that it hurts you to be so irrelevant but that's the facts of it. 

 

Unfotunately, it's not about Scotland and England. And Wales and Northern Ireland which you seem to ignore.

 

It's about Scotland and the UK. Scotland is, like the others and integral part of the UK. Only the UK Parliament can change that. Whether they would wish to, take advice from the electorate in an advisory referendum or as part of an election manifesto is debatable.

 

The nationality of people in the UK is British. First and foremost.

[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Us Scots...

 

Me an' my pals....

 

You're funny. Ever thought about stand-up? On second thoughts, you're not THAT funny.

 

But enough about you.

 

15 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Only the Westminster Government can establish an advisory referendum. It is not within her, or the Scottish Parliament's powers.

 

Fact. She can request one until she's blue in the face (sic), but there's no hope of getting one any time soon.

 

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So your only hope of keeping the union together is to refuse Scotland a referendum.

 

But the Union isn't under threat, is it?

 

[vogie]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

We have established this already, vogie. Since at least 2014, the majority of Scots want independence from the UK. Now, the majority of people hailing from all areas but living in Scotland wants independance. 

 

You can continue to live with your fingers in your ears, but facts are facts.

We haven't established anything, all you have done is pinned your hopes on meaningless polls, the only true indication is the 2014 referendum, that is fact.