Water Booster Pump For Residence

[ProThaiExpat]

I have a Mitsubishi 250 Watt booster pump connected to my house by Sarah Panit five years ago.

I have had to replace a part on it almost every year and it is not pumping water now, just running without doing anything but getting hot and turning itself off, sometimes it works well and others it just does this.

What has constantly bothered me is the fact that the supply side of the pump is at least an inch and a quarter or more intake (pipe hole diameter) from my huge tank and likewise on the outtake side narrowing into a 3/4inch house line pipe system. (Hole diameter measurement) From the visual size of this PVC pipe, I would have called it a quarter inch pipe in the U.S. but perhaps iron pipe having thicker walls has narrower openings, so a visual 1/4 inch PVC pipe is actually a 3/4 inch diameter opening pipe.

Surely such a reduction in pipe size creates substantial additional pressure in addition to the pumps efforts and would cause the pump to labor harder. Perhaps to the point of building too much pressure in the pump causing parts to bust, which has happened a lot.

However, my patience at having them come out and repair the pump annually or more often has worn thin and I am replacing the pump.

In shopping for a new one, I thought of a smaller pump, as neighbors have with no problems and their pumps are all smaller, however, I was told the piping for all the pumps was the same size, regardless of wattage. Is wattage the measure of the size of a pump????

A smaller pump would work just that much harder to force the larger volume of water provided by a large intake pipe into my smaller house pipe system??

I can't believe my developer used a small size pipe on my house than on the other houses in the project. Is the internal diameter of a PVC pipe the measurement one refers to when discussing pipe size?

My house is 200 sq. meters, all on one floor, but the laundry facilities are on the opposite side from the pump location so it is a good 40 meter run, although more or less level.

Any advice anyone can give regarding pump size, pipe size and what pump I should buy and from whom would be much appreciated.

I really would like to find a competent company to supply, install and maintain my pump. Appliance stores and their salesmen are just not reliable, at least for me so far. Perhaps my translator is clueless, I suspect so.

I have noted Dang the plumbers number from the posted services pinned post and will have my Thai mate call and see if he provides such a service.

I have seen pumps on display at Homepro, perhaps they install?? But follow up service is probably problematic from them.

Am I wrong in thinking a booster pump should run without troubles for years without giving its owner problems on a monthly or semi-annual basis???

My Thai mate has suggested using the Thai hardware store on the south east corner of the intersection Mae Rim Road and the superhighway to help with this problem, its the hardware store Ajarn likes so much. They certainly have enough heavy duty pumps for sale. Anyone have any experience with them on installation or maintenance calls.

In Thailand, is pump sales, installation and maintenance a plumbers area of expertise or do they have "pump Engineers" for this function?? I know the guy from Sarah Panit seems marginally competent to repair but judgment calls on pump size, adequacy for installation etc. seem not his area of expertise. Every time I ask whether the pump is the right size for my installation, I get a blank stare.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[cmsally]

I always use the place on Charoenrat Rd. Driving from the Riverside /Good View (north) you come past the Brasserie and just before Kaew Nawarat intersection theres a place in a row of wooden shophouses called Ang Tong (can't guarantee name is right as I always just go there and never really notice). They also have storage and workshop on the other side of the street. They sell, install, fix pumps and have been in this business since probably around the time my grandmother was born. Never had a problem.

I have in the past tried other places too but they never come through with the maintenance. One being a place out on the north side (inside) of the superhighway can't remember the name.

[chanchao]

Another good place for buying pumps and just about everything else you could put on, in or next to your house and garden is Global House on the Middle Ring, in between the ping river bridge and ye olde lamphun road underpass. www.globalhouse.co.th

I'd put in a proper pump, one that sucks not just the water but also all humidity right out of all houses around you in a 1 km radius. When your neighbour would be foolish enough to open her tap, your pump's incredible suction power will open her fridge and get her bottled water, orange juice and soy milk too.

[Ajarn]

The place that I have been using for years is on the frontage road, with tesco/lotus, but towards the river. Big place on the corner, with lots of water containers and such visible. The phone number is 053-234-481

[ProThaiExpat]

Called plumber Dang and he said Mitsubishi run hot and have thermostat that shuts them off. Advice, let it rest ten minutes and then turn it back on.

My question remains, what makes pump run without pumping water? Seems to me it is an impeller problem or problem with whatever drives the water into pressure container.

Once the water doesn't pass through the unit and it still runs, heat is generated fast and then it turns off, but not before the heat has damaged seals on pump and manifold, in my view.

[Ta22]

time to replace one . and get over with all your problem .

the trick is don't over install .

, go to one of the local shop you should find some brand out there .

sometime is due to mud in the water . after long years of using you need to open it up to clean it .

if you get too strong a pump - is painful even when you shower .

and in thailand where people use the jet of water to wash your ass.

trust me .. when the water perrsure get too strong . it going to bust your ass.

.

so good luck .

[Bill97]

My question remains, what makes pump run without pumping water?

It is very often air in the pump. A hole or loose connection and the pump sucks in air and stops pumping water. Or air is comming in the with the water from the water source. A pump with air in it will not pump water and will run and get hot. Is your water source a well? If so a leaking foot valve in the well will cause air to go into your pump.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Bill97

[ovenman]

if you get too strong a pump - is painful even when you shower .

and in thailand where people use the jet of water to wash your ass.

trust me .. when the water perrsure get too strong . it going to bust your ass.

Put a valve on any line where the pressure is too strong and reduce the pressure on that line.

Edited May 8, 2007 by ovenman

[Naam]

time to replace one . and get over with all your problem .

the trick is don't over install .

, go to one of the local shop you should find some brand out there .

sometime is due to mud in the water . after long years of using you need to open it up to clean it .

if you get too strong a pump - is painful even when you shower .

and in thailand where people use the jet of water to wash your ass.

trust me .. when the water perrsure get too strong . it going to bust your ass.

.

so good luck .

when perrsure get too strong mak mak you dont turn valve open to mut, na?

[Bill97]

My question remains, what makes pump run without pumping water?

It is very often air in the pump. A hole or loose connection and the pump sucks in air and stops pumping water. Or air is comming in the with the water from the water source. A pump with air in it will not pump water and will run and get hot. Is your water source a well? If so a leaking foot valve in the well will cause air to go into your pump.

Sorry, I reread your post and see that you are pumping from a storage tank, not a well.

If the water system worked satisfactorly when the pump was working properly over a period of 5(?) years, then just get a reliable pump of the same size and you should be ok. I have had good luck with Hitachi pumps for many years. If you did not like the water system performance when the pump was working, then you have other issues like pump and/or pipe size.

[ProThaiExpat]

Many thanks all for your helpful suggestions. Yes, I think I had air in my pump, not sure how it got there, but one of the functions I did perform was to open the manifold and run the pump until only water came out. Also, there is a screw valve down low in the tank that when opened allows air and water to exit the pump tank.

I also loosened the regulator valve so the pump does not go on right away when a faucet is turned on. It does turn off immediately when the faucet is turned off. My conclusion is that I have reduced the pumps response to pressure levels.

I have had a working pump for two days without a problem and I sent the new smaller Hitachi pump back to the dealer when it arrived today based on the advice that I should use the same size pump as before.

A friend sent me a picture of his trouble free installation and it is a Hitachi with the same pipe arrangement as I have and his is a 250 watt pump as well.

The plumber guy Dang, didn't show or call, even though his house call fee of 500 baht was agreed to. I think if he does, I will just wait until I have trouble again, if ever, and then call him.

Thanks all for your encouragement and advice, it has made me feel a lot better and answered the important question, "why does the motor run and no water is being pumped" Air lock or air in the line, when bled off, no problem and that is what I think did it for me.

For some reason I had the price of a new pump in my head at 15k baht, not so, 250 watt is quoted at 6500. Will certainly replace my Mitsubishi with a new Hitachi if this one drives me bonkers again.

[chownah]

For every pump I have ever had it was easy to tell if there was a mixture of air and water in the pump because of the sound they made....it sounds like a thrashing sort of sound....which smooths out when the air is finally forced out of the pump and straight water is being pumped. If this should happen again listen and see if you can detect the difference. To get the air out just open all the valves you can to get maximum water flow and the air should be purged in a couple of seconds unless there is a large amount of air being continuously drawn in.

Chownah

[lopburi3]

You did not mention how the water comes out of your storage tank. Are you pumping water up from an underground tank or up from the top of an above ground tank? If yes you should have a stop valve on your pump itself (spring operated closure on the place you open to add water to prime likely) and a foot-valve at the bottom of your input pipe. These items can start to fail after extended use.

As you have found out pumps are not that expensive. The most common failure that I used to have was the relay contacts to turn on/off. As said most units have heat overload shut off to protect your motor.

[ProThaiExpat]

Thanks lupburi3, my tank is quite large and above ground. The outlet pipe from the tank exits above the level of the pump.

The "relay contacts" you mention have been replaced twice in five years. I thought those valves had something to do with pressure, and as posted, I backed off the screw to the plus side some and now the pump delivers less pressure and delays before coming on to pump.

I think a little less pressure is going to make the pump work less hard and that has to be good. Likewise, high pressure wears everything out.

[Bill97]

The "relay contacts" you mention have been replaced twice in five years.

You can clean up relay contacts with a small fine file or fine black sandpaper on a thin flat stick just like the routine maintenance on old auto engine points. Faster and cheaper than replacing them. They just need to be made flat and smooth on the contact surfaces then blow out the dust and they again work fine.

[lopburi3]

There should be two adjustments - one for high pressure cut-off (which must be what you adjusted as it will limit the high pressure) and the other to start the pump operating when pressure gets too low. Normally they dope those adjustment points so you don't mess with them. I have several Mitsubishi 405 models where I adjusted the pressure rate as high as I could and it did not seem to cause any extra problems and pumps lasted many years/decades. Having your high pressure lower and the low pressure the same will cause more pump operation as it will have to run all them time when you are drawing water - this may help the point wear however. Six of one, half dozen of the other I guess. As long as you are happy at the lower pressure should not be a problem.

[ProThaiExpat]

Actually, not happy with the lower pressure, so I have turned the screw some more toward the negative marking, opposite from what I thought it would be.

Will continue you to tighten screw until desired pressure returns. I do have only one adjustment screw that I can see and when it was new, there was a green paint like substance semi-freezing it in place.

My pump now doesn't cycle on immediately when there is demand for water. Before it turned on immediately. In fact it was so tight that if there was even a drip in a toiled tank, the pump would cycle on and off repeatedly, I used it as a tell tale of when I had a leak. Your right, lopburi3 that the pump sure worked harder and the contact points would surely have oxidized or whatever they do to become "unclean".

[Bill97]

'ProThaiExpat'

Does your pump have a pressure tank? (I am not familiar with the Mitsubishi pumps) If it does, you should be able to get a few liters of water out of the pressure tank before the pump turns on. They are designed that way so they do not cycle on and off in short time intervals.

[ProThaiExpat]

quite right Bill97. Your point makes sense. I have a very large tank below the pump motor and manifold and the pump motor doesn't presently cycle on right away as before, due to my change in the setting.

[naka]

You have one of two problems.

1. Your pump intake is not "flooded" (primed) so you are trying to pump air or air/water mix

and a centrifugal pump cannot pump air so it just keeps

running and never builds up enough pressure to open the pressure switch.

2. Your pressure switch is either set too high or is not working at all.

If it is set above the pressure generating capability of the pump then

it will never open (and stop the pump)

If it is faulty/jammed then again the pump motor will never stop.

The pressure switches on these things have two setting so can be a bit tricky to adjust

Setting 1 is the upper trip point which is the point at which the switch opens.

Setting 2 is the Hysteresis or gap. this sets the gap between the opening and re-closing point.

Example ... Setting 1 is set to 25 psi

Setting 2 is set to 4 psi.

So the motor will stop when the pressure rises above 25 psi

and the motor will re-start when the pressure drops below 21 psi.

This gap is needed to stop the switch from "chattering".

Hope that's not too techie. oh, and the setting on the long spring is Setting 1

you would not normally need to adjust setting 2.

Tip, make sure your tank never runs dry !

Some good typical info at the link below.

http://www.davey.com.au/files/48630-5.pdf

Naka.

Edited May 11, 2007 by naka

[Mapguy]

For water pump installation and maintenance I have found a good man. Don't have the name in English, he speaks Thai only, but his telephone numbers are 0849481691 and 0850371092.

I have a large pump purchased from Montree Machine Tool (053412224) some years ago. It gets the water from an underground storage tank. It was not correctly installed, but we didn't realize that and were only inconvenienced a little so didn't really get upset with low water pressure, which occurred when, for example, trying to take a shower when the clothes washer tub was being filled. Lately, the pump started to overheat. We thought the pump was bad.

Turns out the pump was fine. The repair man checked the feeder pipe immersed in the water and discovered it simply wasn't of sufficient size to do the job. He put in a wider feed pipe with a larger rough filter and the water pressure improved significantly. It all took less than 30 minutes. No more problems! 700 bhat.

Montree Machine Tool put me on to him. They called him; he called us within five minutes asking if we had running water. We did so he said he'd come by later after finishing a job. He showed up three hours later.

[Dante99]

For water pump installation and maintenance I have found a good man. Don't have the name in English, he speaks Thai only, but his telephone numbers are 0849481691 and 0850371092.

I have a large pump purchased from Montree Machine Tool (053412224) some years ago. It gets the water from an underground storage tank. It was not correctly installed, but we didn't realize that and were only inconvenienced a little so didn't really get upset with low water pressure, which occurred when, for example, trying to take a shower when the clothes washer tub was being filled. Lately, the pump started to overheat. We thought the pump was bad.

Turns out the pump was fine. The repair man checked the feeder pipe immersed in the water and discovered it simply wasn't of sufficient size to do the job. He put in a wider feed pipe with a larger rough filter and the water pressure improved significantly. It all took less than 30 minutes. No more problems! 700 bhat.

Montree Machine Tool put me on to him. They called him; he called us within five minutes asking if we had running water. We did so he said he'd come by later after finishing a job. He showed up three hours later.

Is Montree Machine Tool located on the SE corner of the Super Highway and the road to Mae Rim? If not, where is it?

[sfokevin]

'ProThaiExpat'

Does your pump have a pressure tank? (I am not familiar with the Mitsubishi pumps) If it does, you should be able to get a few liters of water out of the pressure tank before the pump turns on. They are designed that way so they do not cycle on and off in short time intervals.

Can one buy a separate pressure tank and add it to the pressurized side of the system?...

My pump works great (But no pressure tank built in) - Every time I turn on a tap I have an annoying 3-4 second lag where the water pressure drops before the pump kicks in.

I looked in Homepro but they don't seem to sell the tanks as a stand alone item

Edited May 25, 2011 by sfokevin

[powderpuff]

ProThai. These guys are right when they say if you have troubles in the future call an experienced engineer to troubleshoot the system.

a 205 is already a very small pump. I had about 3 405 till I switched to a 2 stage impeller. But that is for a 2 storey house.

[Dante99]

'ProThaiExpat'

Does your pump have a pressure tank? (I am not familiar with the Mitsubishi pumps) If it does, you should be able to get a few liters of water out of the pressure tank before the pump turns on. They are designed that way so they do not cycle on and off in short time intervals.

Can one buy a separate pressure tank and add it to the pressurized side of the system?...

My pump works great (But no pressure tank built in) - Every time I turn on a tap I have an annoying 3-4 second lag where the water pressure drops before the pump kicks in.

I looked in Homepro but they don't seem to sell the tanks as a stand alone item

You are responding to a three year old post. To answer your question, yes you can buy a separate pressure tank and add it to the house side of the pump. They are available at many of the shops that sell pumps and quite commonly installed in 2 story houses where large pumps are needed but are not available with a built in tank. Inside the moat about 70 meters West of the NE corner is a shop that has them, sells pumps and other equipment. It is before the first U turn opportunity and on the left side of course. They will install too.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Dante99

[Mapguy]

For water pump installation and maintenance I have found a good man. Don't have the name in English, he speaks Thai only, but his telephone numbers are 0849481691 and 0850371092.

I have a large pump purchased from Montree Machine Tool (053412224) some years ago. It gets the water from an underground storage tank. It was not correctly installed, but we didn't realize that and were only inconvenienced a little so didn't really get upset with low water pressure, which occurred when, for example, trying to take a shower when the clothes washer tub was being filled. Lately, the pump started to overheat. We thought the pump was bad.

Turns out the pump was fine. The repair man checked the feeder pipe immersed in the water and discovered it simply wasn't of sufficient size to do the job. He put in a wider feed pipe with a larger rough filter and the water pressure improved significantly. It all took less than 30 minutes. No more problems! 700 bhat.

Montree Machine Tool put me on to him. They called him; he called us within five minutes asking if we had running water. We did so he said he'd come by later after finishing a job. He showed up three hours later.

Is Montree Machine Tool located on the SE corner of the Super Highway and the road to Mae Rim?

Yes.

If not, where is it?

[noise]

My question remains, what makes pump run without pumping water?

It is very often air in the pump.

Sorry, I reread your post and see that you are pumping from a storage tank, not a well.

Bill97 was still correct, maybe, after a fashion??? I, too, pump from a storage tank and have found that when I do something "water intensive" (e.g., power wash the carport floor and driveway after filling a fish pond) I run the risk of using so much water out of the tank that the water level falls below "suction" source pipe. The pump than starts sucking air. I then have to play with the piping to bleed the air out.