Extra-judicial Killings Of Drug Dealers In Thailand

[chevykanteve]

The query here is about purpose. Did these killings in fact serve the purpose they were (apparently) intended to serve?

Two cases in point:

1. Several years ago there were many methamphetemine "crazies" in and around my neighborhood. It reached the point where it became dangerous to walk around in the evening. After the "killings" commenced, the problem disappeared rather quickly. Even now, nobody worries about walking around here during the evening hours.

2. A similar situation prevailed in Amphur Muang, practically next door to the army base. "Crazies" walked around at all hours, high on ya bah. There, I was told, the killings were prefaced by drug dealers finding an orchid in front of their house-door. The orchid was an alleged (gentlemanly) warning from the powers-at-be to GET OUT immediately or die. Several people who didn't get out are said to have subsequently went missing. Drug dealing in that neighbourhood stopped almost over-night. Friends I have who live there tell me the place transformed quickly into a much safer neighbourhood.

Are these in fact instances in which the end does jusify the means?

[Prakanong]

I do not think extra-judicial killings outside of due process of the law can every be justified - we are not animals but civilised human beings.

I have to admit I am totally against capital punishment too and see it as a mark of a failed society who still practices it - one innocent death is too much and there have been mistakes made.

Jail people and throw away the key I can go with though!

[sriracha john]

Discussed at length in on-going TV thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=92482

Edited May 8, 2007 by sriracha john

[chevykanteve]

Discussed at length in on-going TV thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=92482

Thanks. Didn't know.

[chevykanteve]

On second thought, after looking at the postings on that other thread, I think I'll keep this thread going unless I get "moderated-out". The topic of the other thread is not, strictly, the same.

[GuestHouse]

Let me see.. Did the extrajudicial killings of over 2000 people serve the purpose they (apparently) were intended to serve?

It all depends on that word (apparently).

They reinforced the rule of might is right

They gave ample oportunity (not missed) to get rid of rivals in business, love, politics

They removed competition in the supply of drugs

They further dragged the reputation of Thailand through the mud

They gave the impression that the government was actually doing something

They created a climate of fear among anyone who might be seen to have any kind of conflict with anyone connected to the TRT Party.

I think there was some mention about a war on drugs.

Is Thailand free of drugs right now?

[wadsy]

I do not think extra-judicial killings outside of due process of the law can every be justified - we are not animals but civilised human beings.

I have to admit I am totally against capital punishment too and see it as a mark of a failed society who still practices it - one innocent death is too much and there have been mistakes made.

Jail people and throw away the key I can go with though!

So basically you think that some lowlife murderer's life should be spared and the state should pay for his incarceration until he/she dies of natural causes just because 'mistakes have been made' and no-one, including the state, has the right to take another life? No doubt you have never lost someone close to you because some predator decided that a totally innocent and undeserving human being would be his/her next victim. As far as I am concerned, anyone relinquishes their right to live in society and be treated in a civilised manner when they commit barbaric, violent, vicious crimes and the consequences of their actions should have been thought about before the fact. And as far as mistakes being made, don't you think that with the certainty of DNA testing these days, that the 'error rate' would be zero now? You are right though, we are not animals so if you behave like one my view is you are treated like one.

Anyway, back to the point, ex-judicial killings are not justified I agree, as I don't think that it achieved anything long term and even if it did, they still did not operate with the sanction of the judicial system and of societies rules, just apparently Thaksin and company's orders and that is wrong. Also, as far as I am aware, the drug dealers are still around, the users are still using, albeit, maybe more discreetly......

[Prakanong]

I do not think extra-judicial killings outside of due process of the law can every be justified - we are not animals but civilised human beings.

I have to admit I am totally against capital punishment too and see it as a mark of a failed society who still practices it - one innocent death is too much and there have been mistakes made.

Jail people and throw away the key I can go with though!

So basically you think that some lowlife murderer's life should be spared and the state should pay for his incarceration until he/she dies of natural causes just because 'mistakes have been made' and no-one, including the state, has the right to take another life? No doubt you have never lost someone close to you because some predator decided that a totally innocent and undeserving human being would be his/her next victim. As far as I am concerned, anyone relinquishes their right to live in society and be treated in a civilised manner when they commit barbaric, violent, vicious crimes and the consequences of their actions should have been thought about before the fact. And as far as mistakes being made, don't you think that with the certainty of DNA testing these days, that the 'error rate' would be zero now? You are right though, we are not animals so if you behave like one my view is you are treated like one.

Anyway, back to the point, ex-judicial killings are not justified I agree, as I don't think that it achieved anything long term and even if it did, they still did not operate with the sanction of the judicial system and of societies rules, just apparently Thaksin and company's orders and that is wrong. Also, as far as I am aware, the drug dealers are still around, the users are still using, albeit, maybe more discreetly......

You have your views and I have mine - I have reached mine after much consideration over many years and you are not going to change my mind just as I will never change yours. Its not just because mistakes have been made (and continue to be even with today's technology) that I do not beleive in it

Even if I knew 100% that the person was guilty I just do not believe in capital punishment by the state. Cost should not even be a factor here but that is my view.

This is not a religious belief either and I am not a namby pamby liberal with a small 'l" - you would find me a much tougher jusdge than most! Maybe its me but I would find a life sentence meaning life a harsher punishment than a swift legal end.

Anyway back to the point of the OP and not our digression on capital punishment where it is legal - I agree with you extra-judicial killings are not the way to go.

[chevykanteve]

Let me see.. Did the extrajudicial killings of over 2000 people serve the purpose they (apparently) were intended to serve?

It all depends on that word (apparently).

They reinforced the rule of might is right

They gave ample oportunity (not missed) to get rid of rivals in business, love, politics

They removed competition in the supply of drugs

They further dragged the reputation of Thailand through the mud

They gave the impression that the government was actually doing something

They created a climate of fear among anyone who might be seen to have any kind of conflict with anyone connected to the TRT Party.

I think there was some mention about a war on drugs.

Is Thailand free of drugs right now?

[mosquitoman]

Sources tells me that one effect that these killings had was to push up the price of drugs as much as 500% so making the main dealers even richer.

MM

[chevykanteve]

Let me see.. Did the extrajudicial killings of over 2000 people serve the purpose they (apparently) were intended to serve?

It all depends on that word (apparently).

They reinforced the rule of might is right

They gave ample oportunity (not missed) to get rid of rivals in business, love, politics

They removed competition in the supply of drugs

They further dragged the reputation of Thailand through the mud

They gave the impression that the government was actually doing something

They created a climate of fear among anyone who might be seen to have any kind of conflict with anyone connected to the TRT Party.

I think there was some mention about a war on drugs.

Is Thailand free of drugs right now?

Did it serve its purpose? I mean, were there fewer drug-related problems in neighbourhoods after the killings? Yes, no, maybe??

[mmushr00m]

Its hard to "un-kill" someone if you later find out they're innocent.

[Prakanong]

Its hard to "un-kill" someone if you later find out they're innocent.

Yeah - I bet that innocent person walking that last few yards feels oh so much better knowing that they get it right most of the time!

Lets not even look into the demographic and economic faxctors playing into who gets executed and who does not

The playing field is not even level to begin with

[JR Texas]

Its hard to "un-kill" someone if you later find out they're innocent.

Yeah - I bet that innocent person walking that last few yards feels oh so much better knowing that they get it right most of the time!

Lets not even look into the demographic and economic faxctors playing into who gets executed and who does not

The playing field is not even level to begin with

JR Texas: It was one of Thailand's worst human rights disasters. Innocent people were killed by the State. The concept of justice went out the window. And, fearing the police, it forced illegal drug addicts even further into the shadows, making it more difficult for HIV/AIDS prevention workers to reach them, leading to an increase in HIV among illegal drug addicts who eventually spread the disease to general public. HIV prevalence is now rising among certain segments of Thailand's population, in large part due to its spread among illegal drug addicts (many of them got HIV in prison). So, there were unintended effects that were not positive for Thailand.