Where Can I Find Resources For Muang (chiang Mai) Dialect? Or Anyone Fluent In Muang Here?

[phrakid]

aka the chiang mai dialect.

is there any websites or threads with guide to basic words n phrases to chiang mai dialect?

or anyone fluent in muang can post some basic words n phrases?

i only know a few basic words like bo aow, bo mee, bo tjai, bo hoo, an yang, yang yee, tah kee, tad dai krap, etc....

and i also know muang dialect will pronounce words starting with L in H fashion?

eg. long laem will become hong haem

lorn will become horn

lau will become hau

etc

and anyway, does anyone know whats the meaning of the word 'tjao' ? i think its some sort of interjection placed at sentences?

[Richard W]

aka the chiang mai dialect.

is there any websites or threads with guide to basic words n phrases to chiang mai dialect?

or anyone fluent in muang can post some basic words n phrases?

There's a page of Northern words at www.learningthai.com . I suppose it might be worth investigating www.lannaworld.com .

and i also know muang dialect will pronounce words starting with L in H fashion?

eg. long laem will become hong haem

lorn will become horn

lau will become hau

etc

Note that these are words that start with ร. The change from ร to ฮ affects most SW Tai dialects, including Shan, Tai Lue and Lao/Isaan. Ahom, Central Thai and Southern Thai are the most significant SW Tai dialects not to undergo the change.

The other major differences are, if we use the etymological spelling, as still used in the tua mueang, which we're encoding at Unicode under the name of 'Lanna (Old Tai Lue)':

• ค ท พ are pronounced [k t p], not [kh th ph] as in Central Thai.
  However, Northern Thai still distinguishes ค and ฅ; the latter is pronounced the same as ข, though the tone is different.
  
• ช is pronounced like Siamese จ or as according to dialect.
  
• ฉ ฌ are pronounced as s.
  
• Old อย (now written in Central Thai as อย, ย or หย) is pronounced as English y.
  
• หญ and old ย are pronounced [ñ].
  
• There are only 4 middle consonants - อ อย ด บ. ก ต ป are high consonants.
  
• Live syllable with high or mid consonant and mai tho has a different tone to live syllable with low consonant and mai ek.
  

and anyway, does anyone know whats the meaning of the word 'tjao' ? i think its some sort of interjection placed at sentences?

It's the polite particle - เจ้า.

[meadish_sweetball]

Richard, do you know if เจ้า was ever used by muang males in the past? Nowadays it is not seen as proper as a man in Northern Thailand to use เจ้า - is this a recent change?

[CSS]

There is a Northern Thai Dialect lessons book that the US Peace Corps has produced for its volunteers that you may be able to talk the PC admin staff into giving you or, probably with more luck, find a volunteer willing to make you a copy. There are many variations of the Northern Dialect and this book tries to stay general but uses the Chiang Mai dialect as the base reference.

At the start it notes some of the standard sound changes, many of which Richard has already given.

ค -- ก คำ -- กำ เคย -- เกย คัน(รถ) -- กัน คาง -- กาง คับ -- กั๊บ

ท -- ต ทางซ้าย -- ตางซ้าย ที่ -- ตี้ ท้อง -- ต๊อง ทุกข์ -- ตุ๊ก ทัน -- ตัน

ย -- ญ (Norther dialect use "ญ" as a nasal form in place of central ย)

ช/ฉ -- ซ/จ ชอบ -- ซอบ ช้าง -- จ๊าง เชียงใหม่ -- เจียงใหม่ ชื่อ -- จื้อ เชิญ -- เจิน

พ -- ป พี่ -- ปี้ พอ -- ปอ

ร -- ฮ/ห รัก -- ฮัก ร้อน -- ฮ้อน โรงเรียน -- โฮงเฮียน เรา -- เฮา รู้ -- ฮู้

ร -- ล เรียบร้อย -- เลียบล้อย โรงแรม -- โลงแลม ร้อย -- ล้อย

Additionally Northern does not use consonant clusters with ร and ล ใกล้ -- ใก๊ กลัว -- กั๋ว ครู -- คู

Vowel shifts:

เ-ียว -- เ-ว เ-ือ -- เ-ีย (this one is true of old fashion northern speaking thai) เ-ือย -- เ-ย -ัว+ย -- โ-ย -+ว+า -- -ัว -ึ -- เ-ิ

Northern can also have 8 tones: mid tone, low tone, falling tone, falling-low tone, high tone, high-low tone, rising-high tone, short rising tone

Here are a few question words to get started with:

pai (rising tone) ไผ = who

ah-nyang (low then rising tone) อะหญัง = what *the ny is a nasally sound

gaw (low tone) ก่อ = and interrogative used at the end of a question that requires a yes or no answer.

and you must have

sao (mid tone) ซาว = twenty

* I apologize for my poor transcriptions

*Information came from the US Peace Crops/Thailand Northern Dialect Lessons prepared by Sunirun Bonsooth, Tuanchai Chaimongkol, Supaporn Boonraksasatya, and Thongchai Chutasilp

[sabaijai]

Richard, do you know if เจ้า was ever used by muang males in the past? Nowadays it is not seen as proper as a man in Northern Thailand to use เจ้า - is this a recent change?

I'm wondering the same, since in northern Laos (esp Luang Prabang) both men and women use เจ้า.

By the way it sounds more like จ้าว to me ...

[Richard W]

Richard, do you know if เจ้า was ever used by muang males in the past? Nowadays it is not seen as proper as a man in Northern Thailand to use เจ้า - is this a recent change?

I've seen references to both sexes using it, but in that case the change was well over a generation ago, even in the countryside of Chiangmai. FWIW, MFL has both ครับ and ฅับ (the two would be pronounced the same) for Siamese ครับ.

[NaiGreg]

Richard, do you know if เจ้า was ever used by muang males in the past? Nowadays it is not seen as proper as a man in Northern Thailand to use เจ้า - is this a recent change?

I've seen references to both sexes using it, but in that case the change was well over a generation ago, even in the countryside of Chiangmai. FWIW, MFL has both ครับ and ฅับ (the two would be pronounced the same) for Siamese ครับ.

I frequently hear male radio-talk-show hosts (Chiangmai) use เจ้า and จ้าว, usually with conversations with women, but also with men. And they seem to be using it to emphesize friendliness, rather than feminine-speak.

-NG

[sabaijai]

Richard, do you know if เจ้า was ever used by muang males in the past? Nowadays it is not seen as proper as a man in Northern Thailand to use เจ้า - is this a recent change?

I've seen references to both sexes using it, but in that case the change was well over a generation ago, even in the countryside of Chiangmai. FWIW, MFL has both ครับ and ฅับ (the two would be pronounced the same) for Siamese ครับ.

I frequently hear male radio-talk-show hosts (Chiangmai) use เจ้า and จ้าว, usually with conversations with women, but also with men. And they seem to be using it to emphesize friendliness, rather than feminine-speak.

-NG

So it's alive and well in Chiang Mai ...

[NaiGreg]

Richard, do you know if เจ้า was ever used by muang males in the past? Nowadays it is not seen as proper as a man in Northern Thailand to use เจ้า - is this a recent change?

I've seen references to both sexes using it, but in that case the change was well over a generation ago, even in the countryside of Chiangmai. FWIW, MFL has both ครับ and ฅับ (the two would be pronounced the same) for Siamese ครับ.

I frequently hear male radio-talk-show hosts (Chiangmai) use เจ้า and จ้าว, usually with conversations with women, but also with men. And they seem to be using it to emphesize friendliness, rather than feminine-speak.

-NG

My post may have been a little misleading. My wife reminded me that when we hear the DJ using จ้าว it is almost always with women and if with a man, probably a very young man. It would be improper for him to use it with a mature man. But still, it is for friendly banter and perhaps to emphasize one's Khon Mueang identity.

-NG