Farang Parents, Child Born In Thailand

[polecat]

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere -- most threads I've read have been concerned with Thai/farang parents.

My partner and I (unmarried) are both British and are expecting our first child at the end of July (Samitivej if you're interested).

We are both here on non-imm working visas.

I have read and heard that any child born on Thai soil qualifies for Thai citizenship. Does anyone have experience of actually dealing with this? Is dual nationality an option/good thing.

Also, any ideas on how having a child born in Thailand would affect our own visa status. ie would one of us be able to give up work to look after the child, or would we have to maintain our work permit/visa status.

Sorry if this is convoluted -- there are a lot of confusing issues for us to get out heads round at the moment

[samran]

In the case of being born in thailand, one of the parents must be either a Thai citizen or a Permanent Resident.

Unless you or your wife is a permanent resident at the time of birth, then I am afraid the answer is no. Your childs Thai birth certificate (which you will receive) will clearly state in the Nationality box in the top right hand corner (in Thai) that "Child not eligible for Thai nationality".

Once your child is born, you should apply via the British Emabassy for a passport. The official line for many years has been that foreign children under 7 years of age do not need a visa to stay in Thailand, and are not subject to overstay fines and regulations. Upon entry (or re-entry in your childs case), although they were granted a 30-day entry permit on arrival, the reality was they could stay as long as they want.

However, given the advent of the 90 in 180 day rule for those on arriving on these 30-day visa free arrivals, there have been reports here on Thai Visa that children have almost been denied re-entry (for having stayed the 90 day quota in 180 days) even though they didn't need a visa to be here in the first place!!

To save this from happening, it is very common from my experience for parents on the babies first trip out of Thailand (whenever that is) to apply for a 90 day non-immigrant O visa for the child. On the return trip back to Thailand at the end of the 90 days, based on your work permit status here in Thailand immigration will extend the babies stay for a year (and each year after that). As long as the baby has the appropriate re-entry permit, he or she can come and go as many times as they like without restriction. Their stay of course, will be conditional upon one of the parents working legally in Thailand.

[GuestHouse]

Firstly very many congratulations and best wishes to you all.

Samran's response is spot on.

If both parents are foreigners and in Thailand on Non Immigrant Visas then the child WILL NOT be given Thai Citizenship.

There are some other issues you perhaps need to consider:

You should not assume British Nationality will be given without checking first - The rule is that either the mother or the father has to have been born in the UK in order to pass on their British Nationality. I mention this because this because being British but not having been born in Britain is increasingly common (as your own baby's case implies).

Getting that wrong could leave a child born in Thailand as stateless, because the Thai authorities will not give citizenship accept where described in Samran's post above.

British Born in the UK is legally referred to as 'British Other Than by Descent'

If either or both parents are British (Born in the UK - British Other than by Decent) then the child born overseas will be (British Other Than by Descent).

The important distinction to note is that while the child would under these circumstances be British (by Descent) s/he could not in turn pass his/her British Nationality to his/her children. That may seem a far off matter but given the increase in travel, working overseas and multinational relationships you ought at least to be aware of the issue.

Finaly, if you haven't got them to hand it might be worth gathering all your birth certificates etc ready for the child's registration.

Again best of luck.

Edited May 8, 2007 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

With respect to Visas, one of you could indeed give up work, the other moving over to a Non Immigrant Visa as a Dependent. But you would still have to meet the income requirements for your visas.

[samran]

With respect to Visas, one of you could indeed give up work, the other moving over to a Non Immigrant Visa as a Dependent. But you would still have to meet the income requirements for your visas.

actually, just re-read the OP guesthouse.

They aren't actually married. So, if (say) the mother gave up work, she wouldn't be entitled to stay in Thailand based on her partners (the dad's) work status here in Thailand. In Thailand, partners can only be extended if they are married.

So, if the mum chooses not to go back to work, she'll be in the position of having to do visa runs - which are becoming quite difficult given the new 90/180 rules.

[polecat]

Many thanks -- that gives me plenty of food for thought. Seems I was way off with the ''born on Thai soil'' theory.

We've already run into some complications wth regards to not being married. For example, my (Thai) company won't do squat with regards to paternity leave/medical costs because we haven't tied the knot. My partner's (British) company, however, have -- aside from offering up to 45k baht for medical costs related to the pregnancy -- even offered me medical insurance on their scheme. In fact, if I worked for them, I would have 6 months (!) paternity leave on almost full pay. Wonder if they have any vacancies...

[samran]

definelty then get your childs immigration status extended then under your partners work permit. By the sounds of it, your partner is the main breadwinner at the moment.

As for you, perhaps you should think about talking to your partners company to provide you with a 'non active' post. It has been known to happen for expat companies, where the non-married partner is given an 'official' position, but not doing very much (eg proof reading english documents) so that they aren't subject to border runs.

Also talk to our sponsor Sunbelt, who may have one or two creative ways for you to stay here without resorting to border running.

[MsFigure]

I can also confirm that a child born to farang parents (husband and I are both australian) does not mean it is automatically a thai citizen.

Not sure if it is the same with the brits, but be sure to check with the British Embassy/Consulate about your future childs british citizenship. With our daughter we had to go to the Australian Embassy and have her become an "Australian Citizen" as she was not born in Australia.

Good luck

[the scouser]

Firstly very many congratulations and best wishes to you all.

Samran's response is spot on.

If both parents are foreigners and in Thailand on Non Immigrant Visas then the child WILL NOT be given Thai Citizenship.

There are some other issues you perhaps need to consider:

You should not assume British Nationality will be given without checking first - The rule is that either the mother or the father has to have been born in the UK in order to pass on their British Nationality. I mention this because this because being British but not having been born in Britain is increasingly common (as your own baby's case implies).

Getting that wrong could leave a child born in Thailand as stateless, because the Thai authorities will not give citizenship accept where described in Samran's post above.

British Born in the UK is legally referred to as 'British Other Than by Descent'

If either or both parents are British (Born in the UK - British Other than by Decent) then the child born overseas will be (British Other Than by Descent).

The important distinction to note is that while the child would under these circumstances be British (by Descent) s/he could not in turn pass his/her British Nationality to his/her children. That may seem a far off matter but given the increase in travel, working overseas and multinational relationships you ought at least to be aware of the issue.

Finaly, if you haven't got them to hand it might be worth gathering all your birth certificates etc ready for the child's registration.

Again best of luck.

Although I don't dispute the broad thrust of what you write, Guesthouse, at the risk of being a pedant, I shall take issue on a couple of points.

There are a variety of circumstances in which someone can be considered to be British "otherwise than by descent" and being born in the UK is just one. For example, someone who has naturalised as a British citizen will also be considered to be such, despite having been born outside of the UK. Secondly, not everyone born in the UK is entitled to British citizenship: gone are the days when simply being born in Blighty was enough. In order to be automatically British at birth when born in the UK, one of your married parents must be either British or have indefinite leave, or, if born to unmarried parents prior to 1 July 2006, your mother must be either British or settled. Those born in the UK prior to 1 January 1983 will be British "otherwise than by descent" by dint of having simply been born in the UK.

Scouse.

[GuestHouse]

Thanks for the clarification Scouse.

There are also special rules applying to the families of diplomatic staff and the armed forces. Again the British Embassy in BKK has all the details - And Scouse is undoubtedly 'The Man' on clafications. I have Scouse to thank for some very good, accurate and practical advice he has given me and my wife.

[astral]

Get that Thai birth certificate to the British Embassy asap and get the child registered there as well,

under both father and mothers names.

Then you can get a UK passport for the child and will not have entering the UK or Europe.