Street People Of Bangkok

[englishoak]

I never give money to beggers around tourist spots kids or no.Too many are run by the Mafia and there are real hard luck cases more deserving.As with my Thai friends if a begger happens along and is asking to eat we take them to a small stall and get them something. For the older people begging at night its usually genuine so I give sometimes.

When I come back to Thailand I always bring old clothes etc to sell. Normally I set up someone I know to sell the stuff for me then take them to buy more stock somewhere, they sell that and buy more stock etc etc. I give them a salary to start,, when they have learnt the basics of saving some to buy more stock I let them have the lot for free.Its worked a few times and now there is about 3 people I know selling in markets from this kick start.

By the way old t-shirts from England sell real well here 250-350 bht so its quite a good business. If only you could get more in the suitcase

At the borders I never give as they are most all working for mafia or they are the most ungrateful beggers I have ever seen.

[cobra]

They're pretty much a fixture on the overhead crosswalks on Sukhumvit,

The fact remains it's hard to hide missing limbs and their wretched lot in life.

The few coins that otherwise I'd just give to housekeeping isn't a big loss to me, so I always put a little something in their cup, by hook or crook I'm sure they'll be able to keep a little of it.

[Crash999]

The few coins that otherwise I'd just give to housekeeping isn't a big loss to me, so I always put a little something in their cup, by hook or crook I'm sure they'll be able to keep a little of it.

Not to pick on you in particular, but this is a classic scenario of an attempt to help actually making things worse.

- There most certainly is a controlling group behind the various beggars and by giving money to the beggars it is directly perpetuating the system. This system includes slavery, child abuse, and rumored forced amputations and so on. By giving money to the beggars you are directly supporting the system that brought these people onto the street.

- The use of the mentally and physically handicapped as well as kids for begging is just disgusting. The number of times I've seen infants and toddlers walking around naked near pedestrian walkways. And if that's not enough, there are even puppies- dirty amputees with (apparently) bleeding limbs, holding babies and puppies. It's almost a caricature and would be funny if the reality wasn't so terrible.

- Have pity on the street vendors who are actually working to make a living- not an easy life and many of those folks sleep in abandoned buildings to save money.

- Owing to 'contributions' by the controlling groups- the tourist areas are never cleaned up (aside from times like APEC), so as a result we get beggars like the 'dragger' in very visible areas. Doesn't give a good impression to visiting customers, family members, and gives the kids a fright.

The only thing I will give out is snacks to the kids- they like it (unless you give out something like soy milk) and it doesn't contribute to the system.

Really, seeing little kids wandering through traffic at 2am is always so disheartening. Please people, think of long-term consequences before you hand over cash to the beggars around town.

[royar2002]

Chanchao, have you noticed that in rural areas there are very few beggars.

You don't see any beggars, but all the people ask for money.

[mbkudu]

Then I guess you could say my wife is a beggar.

[plachon]

I thought the Thais would feed an extra mouth if need be? Maybe they only do this up country, thus no beggars.

Anyway, Cambodia is far worse for beggars, they follow you and grab onto your arm. I bought a big bag of sweets to give them. Everytime I handed a couple out I got looks of disgust and frowns.

They were purely after money, and even had the cheek to turn the sweets down.

You never know if your doing the right thing, so fack the lot of em now.

Terrible isn't it medicine box - you buy a big bag of sweets for the animals, sorry beggars, and the ungrateful little tykes turn down your generous offerings of jelly tots. They should have been grovelling on the floor with gratitude and obsequiance at such loving kindness, eh? I don't know, What is the world coming to when a beggar wants money? Bloody cheek!

But Mr Great White Tourist, don't you ever stop to consider for one moment, with all the benefits that a Western education can provide, that if you (beggar the thought) had been born a Cambodian orphan of US bombing or Pol Pot or a landmine, and hadn't eaten since yesterday, that a facking murray mint tossed at you by a dollar loaded farang, is hardly going to hit the spot in the depths of your growling stomach. Even a starving beggar has a bit of pride left.

Have a nice day eberneezer.

[stroll]

I have now deleted my earlier post, I couldn't do so earlier, because I was suspended for a few days. 'Bad taste', I agree, I realised when I read it again that afternoon.

[Sully]

Mr Plachon, although I agree with the sentiments expressed in your post, I must ask how a person is born an orphan, and are you just another rider on the "blame the US for everything" bandwagon? The world is thus...thus have "we" made the world. Have a nice day.

[Mai Krap]

Recently I passed a girl in a wheel chair who had very small legs and I knew was realy crippled,,, As I rode the train I questioned myself as to why I had not given her anything... The next time I passed I handed her a couple dollars equivilant... I would pass her sevral more times on this day... What did I get in return??? The nicest and most honest smile I have seen in some time... The girl in her early twentys was very clean and in no way looked pathetic nor did I feel sorry for her,,, I was thankful for my health which has given me the oppurtunity to earn and happy to give her a couple bucks ... This happend in Kuala Lampur and with a muslim girl...

That was the good but here is the ugly,,, How many people in this forum have seen the guy who crawls and drags hisself around sukimvit soi 3... he is disgustingly dirty and drags and rubs his face on the ground and realy makes a whole drama right in the middle of one of the bussiest sidewalks in town... I wouldnt be suprised to see him get up and walk away at the end of the day... In china town I saw a woman who had dragged herslf around on a skateboard thing get up and walk away... Last year in Ventiane some children were out begging for money late at night,,, I noticed a man lingering behind them and then the tuk tuk driver told me the man has a very large house on the edge of town and all the people who actualy work hate him as he employs many children to collect money for him and has had many people beaten and thrown in jail for moving in on his territory or trying to make him stop...

[possom]

sully ,"if the cap fits wear it " although i understand many americans feel embarrassed about their governments foreign policies over the years ,dont feel it is a personal attack . but please dont try and justify the policies which have led to suffering all over the world ,including the bombing of camdodia and the subsequent suffering of cambodian people for many years now ,and many years to come .

[RDN]

How many people in this forum have seen the guy who crawls and drags hisself around sukimvit soi 3... he is disgustingly dirty and drags and rubs his face on the ground and realy makes a whole drama right in the middle of one of the bussiest sidewalks in town... I wouldnt be suprised to see him get up and walk away at the end of the day.

I, for one, would be amazed if this filthy beggar got up! His legs looked well mangled, but maybe that is just an act. I never gave him money because he was so filthy - I just didn't want to get near him. But I did give to the ones that looked like lepers - no fingers, or shrivelled arms - that used to hang out on the Sukumvit walkways.

But now I'm in Phuket and rarely see beggars. Sometimes there is one in a local Thai market begging from other Thais and then I do give him or her some small change. I know it just encourages them, but what if they are genuine beggars and really need the money? It's a hard thing to do - to always turn away and assume that, in the long term, it is better to give them nothing.

[Bluecat]

Beggars in Bkk, for most of them, are "controlled" by syndicates.

Like in most of the countries in the region.

Does it make them better or worse?

I really do not know.

Up to you,...

[Sully]

Possum my guess is that youre a Brit...if so, dont think I cant dive into your country's illustrious history and propensity for dishing out pain and disruption around the globe. In my part of the world we say "if the shoe fits"...

Tally ho old chum.

[RamdomChances]

Just trying to work this thread out,

If a begger is controled but a gang that takes most of the money from them, then the begger is not deserving of charity.

but if the begger can keep all the money him/her self is deserving??

sorry i know the arguments but it still does not help the people in the street, if I have some change I give it if not I dont, usually I find I dont have any spare food or clothes handy!!

[stroll]

I adopted a policy of not giving money, you don't know where it will go or what it will be used for, but offers of food I carried with me (no, not sweets or used chewing gum) have often been refused.

I now give away my used clothes to acquaintences in Laos on my visa trips. Although they don't get passed on to beggars, they will end up with people in the community who can make good use of them, school children of poor families, for example.

Not something to boast about, but a minimum of effort and a caring thought can do a lot more good then discussing whether beggars are controlled by the mafia.

[eyespan]

Yup... why don't we channel our charitable energies into organisations like orphanages or the Sarnelli House (one of the only orphanages for AIDS infected children).

Then your conscience will not prick when you refuse the next begging kid so that we can get his scum of a boss out of business.

[RDN]

Yup... why don't we channel our charitable energies into organisations like orphanages or the Sarnelli House (one of the only orphanages for AIDS infected children). 

Then your conscience will not prick when you refuse the next begging kid so that we can get his scum of a boss out of business.

Good idea - I used to give to the Oxfam shop or Salvation Army in the UK. Before I moved to Thailand, they got a couple of wardrobes full of clothes that I couldn't bring with me and didn't want anyway. Is there an equivalent organisation in Thailand?

[Pepe']

Yup... why don't we channel our charitable energies into organisations like orphanages or the Sarnelli House (one of the only orphanages for AIDS infected children).

Then your conscience will not prick when you refuse the next begging kid so that we can get his scum of a boss out of business.

eyespan,

One of the better ideas I think. I don't give coins to beggars. I have donated years of my life to research and treatment of HIV/AIDS patients here in San Diego at the Owen Clinic at UCSD Medical Center.

I have allredy been communicating with Senator Mechai Viravaidya making arrangments to volunteer as a treating physician with PDA when I make the transition to Thailand.

What goes around comes around. If we help others someone will help us one day when we are down. In this life or the next...

[eyespan]

I think one of the reasons these syndicates are so successful is because many of us neglect our call to do good to others far too much. So much that we become unfocused.

Social problems in this country or any other country will not be solved just because we give a few conscience saving bahts to some kid who was deliberately crippled by his master.

Be focused, choose a worthy organisation to support and start from there.

In the US or Britain we could easily grab the kid and hand him to the relevant social organisations for proper help.

We can't do that here because there is too much talk.... no action.

[plachon]

Mr Plachon, although I agree with the sentiments expressed in your post, I must ask how a person is born an orphan, and are you just another rider on the "blame the US for everything" bandwagon? The world is thus...thus have "we" made the world. Have a nice day.

No, I try hard not to jump on that bandwaggon, but sometimes the actions of the US govt. make it hard to totally overlook the obvious. I even gave up on the Bear Pit, when it became obvious that the arguments were all one-sided. No contest against the likes of G-P.

And, it's not difficult to be born an orphan if a B52 has just dropped a present from Nixon on your hut and killed your entire family, bar your mother who dies later from shrapnel wounds, leaving you to be cared for by neighbours. Admittedly, most became orphans a little later, but even if one of your parents are dead and the surviving one abandons you to someone elses care, you are still described as an "orphan", or so I believe.

This is all pedantics though! Beggars' sad lot in life is the topic.......

[Pepe']

The course of our lives is simply our karma unfolding. The resultant actions of previous good deeds leading to advantage and good fortune. Past bad deeds resulting in misfortune and disadvantage.

That is the philosophy of Thai people isn't it?

There is an old saying in India,"The wise man laments neither for the living or the dead but allways acts with kindness and compassion to everyone."

Don't worry the US has a heavy karmic hammer comming down as we speak. Although well deserved. We should never rejoice at the suffering of others.

Although sometimes it's difficult not to.

[plachon]

The course of our lives is simply our karma unfolding. The resultant actions of previous good deeds leading to advantage and good fortune. Past bad deeds resulting in misfortune and disadvantage.

That is the philosophy of Thai people isn't it?

There is an old saying in India,"The wise man laments neither for the living or the dead but allways acts with kindness and compassion to everyone."

Don't worry the US has a heavy karmic hammer comming down as we speak. Although well deserved. We should never rejoice at the suffering of others.

Although sometimes it's difficult not to.

Reincarnation is not the "philosophy" of all Thais, but a fair proportion seem to think that way, or so it seems. There's another way of looking at it and that's "natural law" - roughly speaking, in the end you'll get your just desserts for acts committed in this life, or so some others would like to believe. The saying you quote sounds quite Shree Rajneesh (aka Osho)-ish. Is it?

Anyway, I dunno what all this moral indignation about some poor beggars being "controlled" by the mafia is, bar an excuse not to give a brass farthing to all less fortunate than one self. Look at it this way - all who pay taxes are paying a large part of their earnings (sometimes up to half) to what in most countries is an accountable mafia, who blow this money on worthless projects and schemes. Especially disheaterning for the US citizen, like Sully, who must watch it being blown on lining the pockets of Halliburton executives and daisy-cutters daily. Read in the Washington Post (of all places!) that it would have been cheaper (and probably a lot more effective in winning the peace) just to hand out $20 K to every Iraqi citizen and let them get on with building the govt. of their choice. Ahhhhhhh, choices, choices..................

[Pepe']

No not Rajneesh, just an old Bengali saying.

I think your 20k peace plan is brilliant. Would have been a lot of happy Iraqis even more interested in the capitalistic way of life...

[Wild Republic]

Department of Farang Services

[Ice Treasure]

Yes they can.

You can see them being trucked to the various points where they are stationed, and picked up again at the end of their shift.

It's a job.

Post photgraphs of that happening..

[Ice Treasure]

Good Idea! Give them food, not money!

Near the Victory Monument a girl agout 10 years old threw a small bag of peanuts at me that I had given her. I told her to go #### herself.

Goodness that must have given you a rush dear..

[Ice Treasure]

The few coins that otherwise I'd just give to housekeeping isn't a big loss to me, so I always put a little something in their cup, by hook or crook I'm sure they'll be able to keep a little of it.

Not to pick on you in particular, but this is a classic scenario of an attempt to help actually making things worse.

- There most certainly is a controlling group behind the various beggars and by giving money to the beggars it is directly perpetuating the system. This system includes slavery, child abuse, and rumored forced amputations and so on. By giving money to the beggars you are directly supporting the system that brought these people onto the street.

- The use of the mentally and physically handicapped as well as kids for begging is just disgusting. The number of times I've seen infants and toddlers walking around naked near pedestrian walkways. And if that's not enough, there are even puppies- dirty amputees with (apparently) bleeding limbs, holding babies and puppies. It's almost a caricature and would be funny if the reality wasn't so terrible.

- Have pity on the street vendors who are actually working to make a living- not an easy life and many of those folks sleep in abandoned buildings to save money.

- Owing to 'contributions' by the controlling groups- the tourist areas are never cleaned up (aside from times like APEC), so as a result we get beggars like the 'dragger' in very visible areas. Doesn't give a good impression to visiting customers, family members, and gives the kids a fright.

The only thing I will give out is snacks to the kids- they like it (unless you give out something like soy milk) and it doesn't contribute to the system.

Really, seeing little kids wandering through traffic at 2am is always so disheartening. Please people, think of long-term consequences before you hand over cash to the beggars around town.

Perhaps you could post your evidence here... or is this a result of non-formal research, without proof?

[DJ Pat]

I've been known to give the odd half pack of fags to beggars

[kat]

The few coins that otherwise I'd just give to housekeeping isn't a big loss to me, so I always put a little something in their cup, by hook or crook I'm sure they'll be able to keep a little of it.

Not to pick on you in particular, but this is a classic scenario of an attempt to help actually making things worse.

- There most certainly is a controlling group behind the various beggars and by giving money to the beggars it is directly perpetuating the system. This system includes slavery, child abuse, and rumored forced amputations and so on. By giving money to the beggars you are directly supporting the system that brought these people onto the street.

- The use of the mentally and physically handicapped as well as kids for begging is just disgusting. The number of times I've seen infants and toddlers walking around naked near pedestrian walkways. And if that's not enough, there are even puppies- dirty amputees with (apparently) bleeding limbs, holding babies and puppies. It's almost a caricature and would be funny if the reality wasn't so terrible.

- Have pity on the street vendors who are actually working to make a living- not an easy life and many of those folks sleep in abandoned buildings to save money.

- Owing to 'contributions' by the controlling groups- the tourist areas are never cleaned up (aside from times like APEC), so as a result we get beggars like the 'dragger' in very visible areas. Doesn't give a good impression to visiting customers, family members, and gives the kids a fright.

The only thing I will give out is snacks to the kids- they like it (unless you give out something like soy milk) and it doesn't contribute to the system.

Really, seeing little kids wandering through traffic at 2am is always so disheartening. Please people, think of long-term consequences before you hand over cash to the beggars around town.

Perhaps you could post your evidence here... or is this a result of non-formal research, without proof?

Ice Treasure, just read the newspapers. I believe The Nation reported on syndicates a while back. Let's see, it was last year around APEC, when Thaksin was depopulating the city of any embarrassments or human "stray dogs" as the former esteemed governor Samak commented. The Cambodians that were rounded up were largely trafficked.

This is widely known, so I can't even prove how I know it anymore. I've worked on slum issues in Viet Nam, and other migrant issues here in Thailand, and it was one of the first things you learn from other people that not only work in the field, but by the business operators in the areas that see them getting picked up.

This doesn't mean they should not receive mercy, because they are literally the poorest of the poor. Most of the money goes to syndicates. You know how you can tell - next time you see some of the women with small children along Sukhumvit or on the skytrain steps, do a little survey up and down the sidewalk. There are almost always others very near by. Why do you think that is, agglomeration of the beggars? No, it's because they get dropped off and picked up.

The Cambodian children in Ho Chi Minh are also part of gangs, but in a horrible state nevertheless. I buy them a meal, and sometimes present some of them with flip-flops or cheap drawing materials. I also just try to acknowledge them and give them special attention, as this is sometimes even more valuable to a street child than a few cents. As for Thailand, I give to some old or severely disabled people at times. But there are some that are always out there, and you know that this is a "job" for them the same way that the vendors are doing a job. However, sometimes it is hard to surmise about why some can work as vendors and others not. Maybe they don't have any start-up money. Anyway, it is a question I have because there are so many independent vendors in Thailand.

[Limbo]

Call me heartless, call me cold. I never give money to beggars.

You are heartless Mr Mbkudu, you are cold Mr. Mbkudu, you never give money to beggars.

By the way, thanks for your information. It's nice of you to inform us about your stand in this. I, for instance, never eat strawberries. Maybe nice for you to know. I hope many people read this, so many people will know that I don't eat strawberries. Not that I don't like strawberries. I actually like strawberries, but I don't eat them. You have to wash them very good and I don't want to spend my time washing strawberries.

If you would wash the strawberries and put them in front of me I probably would east them. Unless I was drinking beer at that very moment. I don't like strawberries with beer, even if MR. Mbkudu would have washed them for me. I am sure that I drink more beer than I eat strawberries. But neverteless I have a special relation with strawberries which started in my youth. I am 178 centimeter tall and soon I have to go to the dentist. I don't like to go to the dentist. I shall take the car when I go to the dentist. I shall not walk there. And I shall not take a tuktuk either. I shall put on my black shoes with grey socks. My wife will clean the shoes first. Afterwards I might eat some strawberries.

I don't give money to young children with babies on their back, which they pinch in their legs and bow their toes to inflict pain on them so they shout and cry (Maesai bridge area and in front of the 7/11).

The children come from Burma, pay a fee at the border to enter Thailand. Poor mothers rent their babies to the middle-men. The middle-men hang the babies on the backs of six, seven year old kids and of they go.

But I give money to poor people. I put the gold on Buddha's back as the Thai would say. If you don't give money to poor people, but buy beer for hundreds of Baht, than in your next life you have to beg for people to give you empty bottles you can sell for some satang.

And you will hear the big laughters from big farang when you go there with your bag: hej Lek, don't spend it at the same time. Hahahahahaha, that's a good one, isn't it Mr. Mbkudu?