Bitcoin or Gold?

[MeePeeMai]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why do you think gold will increase so much? 

I don't, i was being generous so as not to offend the gold bugs here.

 

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I'm taking 5% of my Btc profits today and not sure where to put it, certainly not stocks, bonds, or the bank????. 

I wouldn't sell your bitcoin right now. You might regret it.

[MeePeeMai]

Why sell your bitcoin when you can earn 6% interest on it (in btc or USD), or take out an interest only loan on it for as little as 1% interest (without selling your bitcoin).

[TooBigToFit]

Rich people like these legal ponzi schemes and they work for them so long as people continue to buy into them. It's still a thing for techies and the rich who can play with money, but for most of the world there's no easy way to use this. You can always change gold and it's more reasonable priced supported by mainstream people who aren't rich. Gold is the better choice but if you are rich and want to take risks in a ponzi scheme go try bitcoin. Even better, find the other opportunities out there that will make you even more money with your riches. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

25 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Why sell your bitcoin when you can earn 6% interest on it (in btc or USD), or take out an interest only loan on it for as little as 1% interest (without selling your bitcoin).

Yeah, good point, I'm having conflicting thoughts. Crypto is certainly a way to get passive income. I believe I'll take most profits in USDC, in which I can get 10% p.a, or buy back more crpyto when there is a drop, or use on my crypto debit card. 

I'm glad I started this thread as the poll is 50/50 which means that having a position in gold, even a small one is probably wise. Even years ago people were saying BTC has peaked, I'd rather buy gold.

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, TooBigToFit said:

Rich people like these legal ponzi schemes and they work for them so long as people continue to buy into them. It's still a thing for techies and the rich who can play with money, but for most of the world there's no easy way to use this. You can always change gold and it's more reasonable priced supported by mainstream people who aren't rich. Gold is the better choice but if you are rich and want to take risks in a ponzi scheme go try bitcoin. Even better, find the other opportunities out there that will make you even more money with your riches. 

 

 

Are you seriously trying to say bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme?

[jaideedave]

On 1/5/2021 at 7:00 PM, gilo said:

How can one buy Bitcoin in Thailand?

I started using  "BITMEX" last month all okay so far.

[MeePeeMai]

It's pretty obvious who here studies bitcoin and is paying attention to it.. and who is still quoting MSM FUD from years ago.

 

Even the MSM is changing their tune now with big financial banks and institutions calling for a 150,000 to 400,000 btc by dec 2021

 

Things are moving very fast and it is wise to pay attention or get left behind. 

 

I bought Microstrategy stock (MSTR) after the CEO Michael Saylor bought 1 billion in bitcoin. I paid 350 for it at a peak or top and it's now at $522 (latest aftermarket trading price) and rising.

 

Bitcoin mining stocks and MSTR/Square/Paypal/Grayscale etc are great ways to benefit and get exposure to btc without actually buying btc.

 

Some btc mining stocks are up 1500 percent already in the last year.

 

BTW, Paypal, Square, Grayscale, Fidelity Digital Assets, MassMutual Insurance and others don't invest in ponzi schemes. Wake up and smell the coffee!

[Neeranam]

I see a pattern here with these convergent trendline.

 

I don't predict a 3000% increase like in 2017 but the chart show that 2000% or x20 is expected, which would put BTC at $400,000- 500,000. more conservatively, $275,000 by the end of this cycle.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, MeePeeMai said:

BTW, Paypal, Square, Grayscale, Fidelity Digital Assets, MassMutual Insurance and others don't invest in ponzi schemes. Wake up and smell the coffee!

Of course they don't. 

 

 

[Barnabe]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

One of bitcoin uses, in fact why it was invented is to detach from government/bank corruption. 

The US can't control bitcoin and soon will not be the world's reserve currency. 

In fact, if the US don't want to be left behind in this digital currency gold war, they had better start making more kind regulation. This is happening in the next month. 

 

WIshful thinking. As I said before, I am a fan of bitcoin, but I have my eyes open to the possible risks.

 

The US can't control bitcoin, but sure as hell they can control your ability to convert it into fiat.

If the US makes it illegal to turn bitcoin into fiat, the UK and EU will follow suit. What do you think will happen to the price of bitcoin?

 

And more importantly, never forget bitcoin is NOT anonymous. All transactions that you have ever done are recorded in the blockchain. This means you only really need to have one transaction where your identity was identified (such as converting to fiat in an exchange) to tie all your wallets and bitcoin together.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Barnabe said:

The US can't control bitcoin, but sure as hell they can control your ability to convert it into fiat.

If the US makes it illegal to turn bitcoin into fiat, the UK and EU will follow suit.

Rather self-important, don't you think? I couldn't care less what the US does. 

The US can do absolutely nothing to prevent me cashing my bitcoin. 

[Barnabe]

8 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

It's pretty obvious who here studies bitcoin and is paying attention to it.. and who is still quoting MSM FUD from years ago.

 

Even the MSM is changing their tune now with big financial banks and institutions calling for a 150,000 to 400,000 btc by dec 2021

 

Things are moving very fast and it is wise to pay attention or get left behind. 

 

I bought Microstrategy stock (MSTR) after the CEO Michael Saylor bought 1 billion in bitcoin. I paid 350 for it at a peak or top and it's now at $522 (latest aftermarket trading price) and rising.

 

Bitcoin mining stocks and MSTR/Square/Paypal/Grayscale etc are great ways to benefit and get exposure to btc without actually buying btc.

 

Some btc mining stocks are up 1500 percent already in the last year.

 

BTW, Paypal, Square, Grayscale, Fidelity Digital Assets, MassMutual Insurance and others don't invest in ponzi schemes. Wake up and smell the coffee!

 

The same thing was said in 2017 - bitcoin will be a half a million USD in a couple of years. Look how that turned out. "Analysts" will say anything, and my grandma can predict the movements of any market better than any of them.

 

And you think rich people can't make mistakes? The stock market is 400 years old.

 

Its history is littered with examples of boom and bust similar to bitcoin and "smart" people buying at tops. A lot of these supposedly smart retail investors will be minced when the price crashes again. Hodlers like you and me will ride it out, but the majority of people and institutions will panic sell once the price crashes 80% again.

[Barnabe]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Rather self-important, don't you think? I couldn't care less what the US does. 

The US can do absolutely nothing to prevent me cashing my bitcoin. 

 

Ok let me spell it out to you - let's say the US government announces it is illegal to convert BTC into fiat, BTC price crashes 90% in a day. UK and EU follow suit. How exactly are you going to cash out that BTC?

 

Is the scenario above unrealistic? A couple of weeks ago XRP crashed 80% due to a SEC suit, now all exchanges are closing down XRP trading. Seems like an omen of what could possibly happen if they decide to make a move.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, Barnabe said:

And you think rich people can't make mistakes? The stock market is 400 years old.

That's older than the USA?

[Susco]

13 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

BTW, Paypal, Square, Grayscale, Fidelity Digital Assets, MassMutual Insurance and others don't invest in ponzi schemes.

 

Only the biggest Ponzi in human history you mean?

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122990812087125457

MassMutual Burned by Madoff

 

Tremont is part of insurance giant Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co., under its subsidiary that oversees tens of billions of dollars in OppenheimerFunds mutual-fund assets

 

This month, Tremont disclosed that its clients lost $3.3 billion, more than half of all assets overseen by Tremont, as a result of Mr. Madoff's alleged $50 billion scam.

[petedk]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:03 AM, gyps said:

Hard to make large profits when one coin is $33,000. But, I had an opportunity at $9,000 a few months ago. Oh well!

You don't have to buy whole coins

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, Barnabe said:

 

Ok let me spell it out to you - let's say the US government announces it is illegal to convert BTC into fiat, BTC price crashes 90% in a day. UK and EU follow suit. How exactly are you going to cash out that BTC?

 

Is the scenario above unrealistic? A couple of weeks ago XRP crashed 80% due to a SEC suit, now all exchanges are closing down XRP trading. Seems like an omen of what could possibly happen if they decide to make a move.

XRP was 60c, it certainly didn't crash to 12c. Get your facts right.

[Barnabe]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

XRP was 60c, it certainly didn't crash to 12c. Get your facts right.

 

Oh ok, sorry, it "only" crashed 60%. You conveniently didn't address any of my other questions though. And XRP was only a lawsuit, and not made illegal, so you still have a few days to cash out whatever remaning money you have. If they decide to make it illegal, it will be done overnight and your coins are worthless.

 

The government has all the power and they can do whatever they want. Most governments bend the law to their will when <deleted> hits the fan.

US Gold confiscation in the 1930's, overnight removing the link between dollar and gold convertibility in 1970's, bailing in banks with depositors' money (latest example is Cyprus), etc etc.

 

The question is - are they going to do it or not? But the possibility is there, and ignoring it is just foolish.

[MeePeeMai]

8 minutes ago, Barnabe said:

 

WIshful thinking. As I said before, I am a fan of bitcoin, but I have my eyes open to the possible risks.

 

The US can't control bitcoin, but sure as hell they can control your ability to convert it into fiat.

If the US makes it illegal to turn bitcoin into fiat, the UK and EU will follow suit. What do you think will happen to the price of bitcoin?

 

And more importantly, never forget bitcoin is NOT anonymous. All transactions that you have ever done are recorded in the blockchain. This means you only really need to have one transaction where your identity was identified (such as converting to fiat in an exchange) to tie all your wallets and bitcoin together.

 

They will never try to make it illegal to convert to fiat.  They are simply looking at new regulations to insure that they get their taxes on it.  They want to know who has it and who's selling it so they can tax it.

 

There's no good reason to sell bitcoin for fiat anyway since the sale of Bitcoin generates a tax bill (Fed-IRS and possibly State taxes which will cost you at least 20 or 30 percent of your gains). 

 

This is the reason that it is difficult to buy the dip and sell at a profit looking to buy the dip again.  You'd have to get a dip at the same percentage of your tax bill just to break even when you buy back in (assuming that your timing is perfect).  It is proven that it is better over the long run just to buy and hold even through the dips/corrections/flash crashes and bear markets.

 

You can simply borrow on it at as low as 1% interest rate (no sale = no tax bill) or buy gold/silver/platinum etc with it on ALL the online gold bullion dealers (taxes due), then you can always turn your gold (that you bought with bitcoin) into fiat at anytime too if you choose to do so (tax gain or loss).

 

The US government just wants to make sure they get their taxes from it.  And yes, It would be wise to not run a fowl of tax reporting laws on your crypto trades so as not to end up in prison or with huge fines.  

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, MeePeeMai said:

They will never try to make it illegal to convert to fiat. 

Of course they won't, some people are just trolling, giving fake news and facts. 

[Neeranam]

The price of BTC is not the only metric seeing record numbers as the network hash rater has set a new all time high. You have to remember that the inflation of the USD is causing BTC to rise in value, so its value is being measured and paid for in hyper-inflated currencies. AS BTC continues to break all time highs, the market sentiment

remains overwhelmingly positive. 

[Barnabe]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Of course they won't, some people are just trolling, giving fake news and facts. 

 

"They will never try to make it illegal to convert to fiat."

"Fake news"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

 

If you are true bitcoin believers, you will know that its purpose is to disrupt the world's financial system. And if you believe that the system won't react to this potential disruption then you're in for a shock.

 

The thing is that I don't necessarily disagree with your vision. But if bitcoin survives, its rise will take a couple of decades, and it will have huge drawdowns of 80% or more, legal challenges worldwide, bans, etc.

[MeePeeMai]

2 minutes ago, Barnabe said:

"They will never try to make it illegal to convert to fiat."

"Fake news"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

 

The US Dollar is not currently backed by bitcoin.  Totally different scenario.  

[Neeranam]

33 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

There's no good reason to sell bitcoin for fiat anyway since the sale of Bitcoin generates a tax bill (Fed-IRS and possibly State taxes which will cost you at least 20 or 30 percent of your gains). 

With 5000%+ gains, 20% seems like a drop in the ocean ???? 

Similarly, 10% p.a seems insignificant. I'm rethinking the idea of caching out now to put USDC on exchanges to get a measly 10%. For now anyway, maybe when BTC price hit the high($270k -$500k), I'll transfer half to gold/exchanges. But I will obviously keep a close eye on the charts. 

[fdsa]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

One of bitcoin uses, in fact why it was invented is to detach from government/bank corruption. 

The US can't control bitcoin and soon will not be the world's reserve currency. 

In fact, if the US don't want to be left behind in this digital currency gold war, they had better start making more kind regulation. This is happening in the next month. 

 

There is one little issue though...

The majority of mining power is located in mainland China (60%+), and these miners will do whatever their government will tell them. For example, they could block the transactions they don't like or even "print" money by issuing double-spend transactions, which leads us to the very same government/bank corruption as we have already. But controlled by a different country.

 

And who do you prefer to be your master in this brave new world - the USA or China?

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Barnabe said:

Is the scenario above unrealistic? A couple of weeks ago XRP crashed 80% due to a SEC suit, now all exchanges are closing down XRP trading. Seems like an omen of what could possibly happen if they decide to make a move.

I don't think you understand the basics. Crypto can be very volatile in the short term. XRP did crash 60% but in the last week it is up 50%. When this unfair lawsuit goes away, incredible gains are going to happen.

The US government is fighting a losing battle. People are already counter-suing the SEC chairman for this ridiculous lawsuit the day before he left office on an asset he allowed for 8 years, just because the arrogant A*****e fell out personally with the Ripple CEO. 

 

Also, XRP is still up 36% for the year. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, fdsa said:

 

There is one little issue though...

The majority of mining power is located in mainland China (60%+), and these miners will do whatever their government will tell them. For example, they could block the transactions they don't like or even "print" money by issuing double-spend transactions, which leads us to the very same government/bank corruption as we have already. But controlled by a different country.

 

And who do you prefer to be your master in this brave new world - the USA or China?

Neither. There is very little BTC yet to be mined.

[fdsa]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Neither. There is very little BTC yet to be mined.

You didn't get the point. The miners' job is not only to "mine" new Bitcoins, but also to confirm transactions of already existing Bitcoins. And adding a statement like "If sender address is xxxxxxxxxxxx or receiver address is nnnnnnnnnnn then do not confirm transaction" is just a few lines of code.

[potless]

Banks etc have bereavement departments. Would there be any difficulty for the executors of a will when claiming assets held in Bitcoin?

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, potless said:

Banks etc have bereavement departments. Would there be any difficulty for the executors of a will when claiming assets held in Bitcoin?

Good question to which I don't know the answer. I educate my children on digital assets. Actually, it is because of these assets that one can study at ABAC(private uni in Bkk). Both my kids own OMG, XRP, BTC, LINK. The only other assets I will have are gold, land, house, cars, which will automatically go to my wife, if she outlives me. 

I plan to have a folder with all my accounts, passwords, and instructions. 

Don't think I need a lawyer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Neeranam