Thailand Gets New Cyber Crime Law

[h90]

The only save way is to turn off the log files/deleted them frequently than no court can demand them.... Else you simply can't keep it confidential. If the men black/brown come you'll give the date no other choices....

Then the question becomes, "What does the law require of ISPs as regards retaining logs?" I know that in U.S. and Europe there are legal requirements for ISPs to retain certain information in their log files for specified lengths of time -- somewhere from two to five years!

This law is just another obstacle to Thailand entering the twentieth century, and people in the IT sector pointed out its shortcomings but were snowed under by the ultra-nationalists. You have to understand that the groups behind the coup and behind the junta were angry because they were losing power under Thaksin and are trying to find ways to prevent that from happening again. In the long run it won't work, but it can make life uncomfortable for a while.

Yes exactly therefor my server in Europe does not make any log files. If there is any problem, they can charge me whatever they want for not having any logs, they can take the server apart or put me in jail but they won't get any user data.

It is a complete joke to promise to keep the user data confident but collect them, so you have them if anyone is asking for it.

.......If you don't want to bomb, why do you store explosives in your house?.......

........If you don't want to give your user data why do you store them on the server connected to the internet?......

[rychrde]

The current government is not passing laws based on ill intent. They really think this is the way to go to protect the average Thai person. However, once the average person can speak for themselves via their votes, such laws will change.

Although this starts to be off-topic, from what I see in the villages the above is being very kind to the current regime. Largely castrating the police is demoralizing people in the villages who now see that nobody is protecting them from gangsterism.

The last sentence, however, will come true unless we go down the burmese road.

rych

[baabaabobo]

Gawdon Bennet! What a rum & coke!

[astral]

It means more jobs - for the thousands of people that will need to be employed to administer the records and keep track of every single IP address of every single user. Is the technology here even capable of that right now?

This is the problem when non computer literate people try to get involved in matters they do not understand.

The number of IP addresses, under the present system, exceeds the number of users.

That is why we have dynamic ip addresses, so they can be re-used.

The ISP can track who has a particular ip at any time, but I cannot see overseas

ISP's co-operating with the Thai government. In the US they will claim "freedom of speech"

and tell the Thai government to go <deleted> itself.

[Crushdepth]

Significant efforts have been made in Thailand to oppose sites that are representing illegal activities. Activities such as gambling, drug usage and pornography are strictly banned, using DNS control in Thailand and, more effectively, a transparent proxy.

Thailand has no effective internet censorship measures worth mentioning. It's strictly a face issue - blocking a small percentage of sites (in the most pathetically lame way imaginable) to pretend they are tackling the 'problem'. It's a bit like the Minister's recent anti-piracy raid at Pantip, where they arrested *one* porn vendor.

It would be funny if it wasn't so saaaad.

[DeputyDawg]

Any one for a ruby? hold on its the trouble on the dog,

[AndyCanfield]

that would mean that using proxies to access banned sites is now illegal.

Curios. If I use a special tool which is capable of getting past the Thai censor, they can probably detect that I am using this tool, but can not detect which site I'm going to. Will they arrest me for using such a tool itself? Is it now a crime to distribute such a tool in Thailand?

When will we know exactly what the law says? IMHO: Don't be silly. They're not going to tell us exactly what is illegal. And even if you know exactly what the legal paper says, that doesn't tell you what is in the mind of the guy with the handcuffs. You have no right to be here, therefore you have no rights at all.

[Steely Dan]

?? So are there any forums on Thai Visa on how to circumvent censorship... or is that "self censored"..??

From the Forum Rules:

We do not allow discussions of proxies or other methods of bypassing government blocking of websites.

I suppose someone interested could just google anonymous and proxy, but then would google be blocked? I guess that's how this sillyness started with the Lese Majesty thing and Youtube. I think those who are wondering about the practicalities of policing the law are missing the point. Sure you can't stop every teenager pursue their mastabatory quest for illicit stimulation the numbers are vast, you can however target groups or individuals you consider as persona non-grata and monitor their every move. This is both sinister and worrying. If the Russian experience is anything to go by I wouldn't be suprised if Thai secret agents were jetting off in search of the perpetrators of the insulting Youtube videos armed with radioactive Som Tam.

P.S I will now remove the portable proxy anonymiser from my pocket USB drive just in case the authorities decide to ban them or seal up all the USB slots in every internet cafe throughout the land.

[Bananaman]

Any one for a ruby? hold on its the trouble on the dog,

I'll join ya then after we'll head to the battle cruiser for a few pints of Uri.

[DeputyDawg]

I read this thread and Monty Python springs to mind, I wonder why that is?

[g00dgirl]

If somebody would connect to a VPN server in another country, which many people do to connect to their secure company network outside Thailand, that would be illegal then ...

cause it means all traffic gets routed through the VPN server in the other country first and from there all sites are accessible.

So is Thailand going to block all VPN traffic now?

[vertigobkk]

dont forget that prostitution is also illegal in thailand.... bwaahahahahahahahahahahah

[DeputyDawg]

dont forget that prostitution is also illegal in thailand.... bwaahahahahahahahahahahah

Lets just hope that the same set of enforcers are used

[bkkbaz]

Given that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of open wireless access points in Bangkok alone, not to mention all those anonymous internet cafes, I don't think this is going to cause any real problems for those intent on committing "cyber crime", whatever that is.

Will we have to show our passports at internet cafes now? How about when we take our laptops to Starbucks? Au bon pain? I doubt it.

Even Suvarnabhumi Airport has open wireless access.

And I haven't even mentioned Tor...

Carry on folks, nothing to see here.

[dman]

This link is a bit dated and a bit of a read but gives a very comprehensive view of the magnitude of China's internet filtering. Estimated over several hundred thousand people are involved in the effort. Thai govt officials like to talk tough and make headlines, but when it actually comes down to doing real work they are lazy. Personally I dont think they will have the stomach for this once they find out how much work it will involve. China is just the opposite, when they want something done they mobilise full force.

BTW. Nobody mentioned an unsecure wireless AP (access point) where all your neighbors are riding for free on your dime.

http://www.opennetinitiative.net/studies/china/#toc2b

Cheers from behind the Great (Fire) Wall.

[brucegoniners]

Regarding Ip adresses.

How they want go arround to find you on an IP address ?

99% of the Thai internet connections have not a fixed IP. If I look at my connection I have arround 100 different IP addresses from TOT, every time I login "supprise" I got a new IP address.

If you want a fixed IP adress I pay 8500 BHT with a speed of 256/128. No way to pay that sort of amount.

Im from the Netherlands and there have every body an fixed IP adres and pay 1500 BHT 20Mbps/4Mbps so you more easy to find.

Fixed Ip addresses aren't that expensive. I pay about 5400 including vat a month for a 2 mb fixed connection with CS Lox Info. It actually gives you about 1.6, but that's pretty fast.

[chevykanteve]

Gawdon Bennet! What a rum & coke!

Now we're getting into the spirit here!

[gdhm]

Thailand gets new cyber crime law

The chief immediate effect of the new bill will be to outlaw any attempt to get around government censors to access any of the tens of thousands of sites censored for moral or political purposes, or "to damage the country".

The government pushed the new law by saying it hopes the bill will provide an effective legal tool to fight cyber crime, including theft of data and chatroom contacts that lead to rape.

-Bangkok Post

Maybe the Thai government should sort out how they tell people that it is blocking a site.

The Internet Explorer standard message is VERY general and the reasons for failed access can be many.

If Thailand wishes people to obey it's Law then I feel they need to be helpful and generate some form of message upon attempted access similar to " This site has been blocked by the Thailand Government as it is considered.........."

Regards, Dave

[rychrde]

Will we have to show our passports at internet cafes now? How about when we take our laptops to Starbucks? Au bon pain? I doubt it.

Actually, was recently at Rome airport and wanted to check emails at one of those coin-op internet cabins and...yes, it demanded a scan of my passport to gain access. This was obviously after I deposited a one euro coin. I let the machine keep my coin.

rych

[John K]

Well in typical Thai fashion, I wonder if they bothered to get to the part on how they would implement this or only the first step. This is a huge task, in if they want to do like China, well there is a bit of a population difference for available manpower.

[steffi]

Doesn't anybody see the complete disconnect b/w the the original motive and the new reasoning?

Thailand gets new cyber crime law

The chief immediate effect of the new bill will be to outlaw any attempt to get around government censors to access any of the tens of thousands of sites censored for moral or political purposes, or "to damage the country".

The government pushed the new law by saying it hopes the bill will provide an effective legal tool to fight cyber crime, including theft of data and chatroom contacts that lead to rape.

-Bangkok Post

[aonangkrabi]

Disturbing news in this thread. I am not interested at all in gambling or porn sites, am not even interested in U-t. But I cannot stand someone else deciding what I am allowed to read.

So I went to google and yes! Five minutes later I entered the U-t site.

Now I feel OK again. I resume my old habits and will not visit these sites any more.

[Steely Dan]

Of course what we have here is a classic clash of civilisations, what's at stake is what you put on the top of your tree. In Thailand it is the Monarchy, followed closely by the moral secular 'guidance' and loyalty to the family unit. These are taught in Thai schools as givens, no room for questions or interpretations. Western societies put the abstract concept of freedom above everything else. True there are libel laws, but anybodys hypocricy or inconsistencies can be lampooned mercilessly. The Danish cartoon row was an example of this, sacred cows are therefore only sacred within their borders. It is also an undeniable fact that everybody is hard wired with their own rule book as to what should and should not be allowed - trying to curtail this is seen as an attack on personal freedom, indeed I had no interest in anonymous proxies until the first time something I wanted to access was blocked. I suppose it is the same psychology with adolescents experimenting with recreational drugs, but that's another topic.

[crocodilexp]

I don't think anyone needs to be terribly concerned about this law. It's just another law that will be enforced selectively, if at all. Thailand seems to have a law making ANY action illegal, it's up to the enforcers to decide exactly how illegal it is. Comes in handy for the elite, who can do anything with impunity anyway.

My GF claims most street vendors and beach hawkers are illegal too (since few of them have all the right permits) -- some of them run away when police is around. Prostitution, of course, is deeply illegal, and never happens in Thailand. So is riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

Thailand is not the USA, and although the laws are unjust and selectively enforced, in practice everything runs along smoothly, and in practice it's far less restrictive to both speech and action than my "beacon of freedom" homeland.

[s.pylos]

Edit: About tracing IP, it's easier than ever don't be fooled by the always changing IPs, it's logged anyway : time/date and account name, plus for ToT for example your phone number is tied to your account, isn't it handy to e caught ?

Interesting typo:

I have been e-caught !

[sandy]

[thohts]

So, if I use the IP address of a blocked site (such as Mashable.com or YouTube.com) to access that site, that would make me a criminal? That method would be 'circumventing the government's censors', would it not?

'not make sense'

[astral]

dont forget that prostitution is also illegal in thailand.... bwaahahahahahahahahahahah

Lets just hope that the same set of enforcers are used

I expect the boys in brown can recognise a prostitute or a brothel,

but I think that very few will have any idea what an IP address is.

[sukanyacondo]

Should be interesting for all those flying thru Thai airspace too?? "ladies and gentlemen we are now entering Thai airspace etc etc" mind you I havent a clue how laptops work on aircraft?? Would they divert the plane or just shoot it down ha ha ha ha remember right and wrong is just a human concept

[sukanyacondo]

Have new elections been announced for later this year???

[thefusilier]

So are there any forums on Thai Visa on how to circumvent censorship... or is that "self censored"..??

It isn't hard to find out with a few searches. I had the need to only once I came to Thailand and it was pretty easy.

Edited May 10, 2007 by thefusilier