Refund of tax on interest frustration

[Orton Rd]

Thought might as well get a tax number to stop tax being deducted, not that it's a lot and claim a refund. Went to the bank got a statement of interest, off to the revenue office. Thought if there were any problems it would be here, not so they were really helpful and got a tax number after about 20 mins, even though at first they did say needed a WP which I don't have.

Back to the bank (Krungsri) and hand over the tax card, photocopies signed then they decided they could not do it after all and refunds can only be done through farmers bank and krungthai bank! They suggested opening a krungthai account then they could link it, gave up trying to understand at this point but went off to find a krungthai bank- cannot open account without a wp!

Then I remembered a letter from krungsri head office when all this started, it implies that both Thais and foreigners will be stopped interest on less than 20k, but apparently this is only for foreigners, or so the Mrs claims. But it clearly says to get the deduction stopped take the tax number in. Not sure if they will even stop tax deductions now they have the number registered. So it seem you can only get tax back from 2 banks.

 

 letter from head office

Starting May 2019, it is required by Thai law from Revenue Department of Thailand that everyone in Thailand ,both Thais and foreigners, who have deposit accounts with earned interests must pay tax. However, if interests earned is less than THB 20,000, you will not be deducted for tax payment , but you must present your Tax ID card at Krungsri branch for the deduction records.
 
Everyone who is employed in Thailand will get tax ID card, please present such tax ID to branches for records on tax deduction if  interests earned are less than THB 20,000 as mentioned above.
If you do not have such tax ID, you will be deducted for tax payment on interests, as  interests are deemed as income.

We do apologize for any convenience caused to you. Should you need further assistance or more information, please do not hesitate to contact us or 24 hours Krungsri Call Center 1572, overseas call (66) 2 296 2000 press 1.

Best regards,


Krungsri Digi-care Team  
Bank of Ayudhya PCL.,

 

[EricTh]

Yes, getting money from Thai government is a big headache. Every year they make it more and more difficult. We have to wait 3 months for them to send in a cheque.

 

Then this cheque can only be cashed in at KrungThai. Nobody at KrungThai know how to speak decent English so I had to resort to my limited Thai to communicate.

 

The whole process is a nightmare. It used to be simpler a few years back.

 

 

[Sophon]

You can't get the tax back from the bank, all they can do is stop deduction of any future tax. You get the tax back by filing an income tax return (PND 90/91) with the Revenue  Department, and after a few weeks they will send you a letter with the tax refund. You take the letter to Krung Thai Bank to get your refund.

 

You can file your tax return online here, or you can go in person to the Revenue Department with the tax deduction form you got from Krungsri Bank. The Revenue Department is generally quite happy to help with the filing (i.e. they will enter all the information into the system for you).

Edited January 29, 2021 by Sophon
Inserted link

[Orton Rd]

26 minutes ago, Sophon said:

You can't get the tax back from the bank, all they can do is stop deduction of any future tax. You get the tax back by filing an income tax return (PND 90/91) with the Revenue  Department, and after a few weeks they will send you a letter with the tax refund. You take the letter to Krung Thai Bank to get your refund.

 

You can file your tax return online here, or you can go in person to the Revenue Department with the tax deduction form you got from Krungsri Bank. The Revenue Department is generally quite happy to help with the filing (i.e. they will enter all the information into the system for you).

That is what I said at the tax office, over ridden by the mrs, thanks for that mate marvelous you can't get a straight answer from bank or revenue office but have to rely on another foreigner on the internet

Edited January 29, 2021 by Orton Rd

[Orton Rd]

J

32 minutes ago, Sophon said:

You can't get the tax back from the bank, all they can do is stop deduction of any future tax. You get the tax back by filing an income tax return (PND 90/91) with the Revenue  Department, and after a few weeks they will send you a letter with the tax refund. You take the letter to Krung Thai Bank to get your refund.

 

You can file your tax return online here, or you can go in person to the Revenue Department with the tax deduction form you got from Krungsri Bank. The Revenue Department is generally quite happy to help with the filing (i.e. they will enter all the information into the system for you).

just looked at the papers, the revenue office woman filled out the 90 form but gave them us them and told us to take to the bank this was the boss there, so they should be left at the revenue office?

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, Sophon said:

 

 

You can file your tax return online here, or 

 

Unfortunately, it's all in Thai and no English.

[Sophon]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

J

just looked at the papers, the revenue office woman filled out the 90 form but gave them us them and told us to take to the bank this was the boss there, so they should be left at the revenue office?

 

If she filled ut the PND 90 form in the computer, then she probably already filed the tax return for you and what he gave you was a print out from the system. One of the last steps when filing electronically is to have an OTP sent to your phone, which is then entered into the system. Did that happen? I can't imagine that she wouldn't have completed the process, as long as you showed her the tax deduction form from the bank.

 

Everything is entered into the computer, you don't leave any documentation at the Revenue Department. That said, before issuing a refund the Revenue Department can call you in and ask  for the documentation, that happened to me last year (I believe) because there was a new boss at the local revenue office.

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

That is what I said at the tax office, over ridden by the mrs, thanks for that mate marvelous you can't get a straight answer from bank or revenue office but have to rely on another foreigner on the internet

 

Most Thais can't speak English at an intermediate level, there's always some communication problem with them.

 

Even when they tried to speak English, I can't understand what they are saying due to broken grammar and wrong use of vocabulary.

 

[EricTh]

7 minutes ago, Sophon said:

 

If she filled ut the PND 90 form in the computer, then she probably already filed the tax return for you and what he gave you was a print out from the system. One of the last steps when filing electronically is to have an OTP sent to your phone, which is then entered into the system. Did that happen? I can't imagine that she wouldn't have completed the process, as long as you showed her the tax deduction form from the bank.

 

Everything is entered into the computer, you don't leave any documentation at the Revenue Department. That said, before issuing a refund the Revenue Department can call you in and ask  for the documentation, that happened to me last year (I believe) because there was a new boss at the local revenue office.

 

My officer keyed in something for me at the computer but instead of giving me the printed total amount as in previous years, he handed me a e-filing form which baffled me.

 

There was no OTP.

 

I had a one hour talk with the officer trying to understand what happened this year. They returned all my bank tax deductions to me and when I asked why is it different from past years, they couldn't explain.

 

You took only one paragraph to explain what happened.

 

But why was there no slip given to me like in previous years that I will receive xx amount back .

Edited January 29, 2021 by EricTh

[Orton Rd]

1 hour ago, Sophon said:

 

If she filled ut the PND 90 form in the computer, then she probably already filed the tax return for you and what he gave you was a print out from the system. One of the last steps when filing electronically is to have an OTP sent to your phone, which is then entered into the system. Did that happen? I can't imagine that she wouldn't have completed the process, as long as you showed her the tax deduction form from the bank.

 

Everything is entered into the computer, you don't leave any documentation at the Revenue Department. That said, before issuing a refund the Revenue Department can call you in and ask  for the documentation, that happened to me last year (I believe) because there was a new boss at the local revenue office.

Yeah she seemed to have done all that, but no OPT sent to phone. The problem is the bank who cannot create a prompt pay for me as no thai ID and they cannot do from a phone number or passport. Why they have to do it if the refund comes from the revenue I don't understand.

[topt]

20 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Yeah she seemed to have done all that, but no OPT sent to phone. The problem is the bank who cannot create a prompt pay for me as no thai ID and they cannot do from a phone number or passport. Why they have to do it if the refund comes from the revenue I don't understand.

Seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread.

@Sophon    PND 90/91 I understand is a full tax return. if you are only reclaiming tax withheld on interest you should be able to do so with a single one page sheet - at least that is what I have used for past 5 years or so in Pattaya. I have been sent the full return in the post in the past but have been told I can ignore it.

I have never received an OTP when filing this form.

24 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

The problem is the bank who cannot create a prompt pay for me as no thai ID and they cannot do from a phone number or passport.

When you are sent your letter with the refund you have 3 options (well last 2 years anyhow)-

Have it paid into KTB account

Prompt Pay

E-card payment

 

The last option was the only one possible for me. KT should know by now (probably depends on branch) how to generate a card for you and use the bar code on the tax repayment letter to load the account that you can then retrieve from their ATM.

2 hours ago, Sophon said:

That said, before issuing a refund the Revenue Department can call you in and ask  for the documentation

I have had to call and ask what the delay was and go in and see them so similar. I am fully expecting the same this year as filed a couple of weeks ago.

 

4 hours ago, EricTh said:

Then this cheque can only be cashed in at KrungThai.

As I mention above I don't believe they issue cheques anymore. This has been my experience but possibly YMMV.....

 

4 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

but you must present your Tax ID card at Krungsri branch for the deduction records.

I appeared to have been successful with this at SCB but L&H did not understand at all so again may depend on branch and type of account.

[Orton Rd]

Confusion is the right word to describe this alright  ????

[moontang]

Get the statement of interest paid from the bank, go to the revenue office, they will do it for you... You get the refund letter in the mail, take it to KTB.. Top it up to nearest 100..they will assist you at the machine.  Pretty simple.  Even in a farangless place like Nonthaburi, they were efficient. 

 

Your bank is where you get the statement to take to Revenue.  KTB is where you take the letter from Revenue you will get in 6 weeks or so.. even if you don't bank with KTB.  I didn't know Kasikorn participated. 

[asiaexpat]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

Get the statement of interest paid from the bank, go to the revenue office, they will do it for you... You get the refund letter in the mail, take it to KTB.. Top it up to nearest 100..they will assist you at the machine.  Pretty simple.  Even in a farangless place like Nonthaburi, they were efficient. 

 

Your bank is where you get the statement to take to Revenue.  KTB is where you take the letter from Revenue you will get in 6 weeks or so.. even if you don't bank with KTB.  I didn't know Kasikorn participated. 

Kasikorn is only an option for Thais using PromptPay. 

[tonray]

Not worth the hassle for a few hundred baht annually. I consider it part of my contribution toward whatever services I benefit from in Thailand. After all I don't pay any other btax outside of immigration nonsense fees.

[moontang]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

Not worth the hassle for a few hundred baht annually. I consider it part of my contribution toward whatever services I benefit from in Thailand. After all I don't pay any other btax outside of immigration nonsense fees.

You must be getting your financial advice from your local food court.  Start with a bank that actually competes on interest:  Krungsri, CIMB, LH.. to name a few.  It is less meaningful nowadays, but my return is close to 1000, and half of my 800k was in a tax free FD for half the year for over 55.  Have had refunds as high as 3500, with rates much closer to 3%.  There is also a cost to them to keep it on their books. We pay VAT of 7% and taxes at the land office are outrageous, and passed on to renters. 

[tonray]

12 minutes ago, moontang said:

You must be getting your financial advice from your local food court.  Start with a bank that actually competes on interest:  Krungsri, CIMB, LH.. to name a few.  It is less meaningful nowadays, but my return is close to 1000, and half of my 800k was in a tax free FD for half the year for over 55.  Have had refunds as high as 3500, with rates much closer to 3%.  There is also a cost to them to keep it on their books. We pay VAT of 7% and taxes at the land office are outrageous, and passed on to renters. 

Indeed.and it's better than the food.

[JimGant]

If you're a Yank, it's easy to avoid this whole goat rope. Just declare the Thai tax on your bank interest as a tax credit on your US tax return. If less than $600 (married, filing jointly), you just plug in the Thai tax number on line 1 of Schedule 3, Nonrefundable Credits. No Form 1116 required (although this isn't too difficult a form to navigate, should your taxes exceed $600). Presto: Your US tax bill is reduced dollar for dollar by the Thai taxes paid. Of course, you do have to declare the Thai interest on Schedule B of your US tax return. But, for many, the marginal tax rate on this interest will be 12% -- less than the 15% Thai tax "withholding at source" tax rate -- so, maybe a few satang savings..... And a whole lot less fuss in dealing with Thai gov't offices, and banks.

 

Yes, there's an IRS pub that says, if you can get a foreign tax refund, then you can't take the credit. But, we've all seen here on Thai Visa, and many with personal experience, that its hard to get a Thai tax ID -- and without that, no tax refund. So, if I ever got audited on this (zero chance with the current IRS budget), I would truthfully say: I was told I couldn't get a Thai tax ID without a Work Permit. (I just wouldn't say that I was told this on a forum.)

 

Bottom line: There's nothing shifty about this -- the Thai-US tax treaty says that Thailand gets initial taxing authority on earnings in Thailand. Yes, the US savings clause says that these earnings also have to be declared on one's US tax return -- but the treaty also calls for a tax credit to avoid double taxation. So, here we are.

 

That your tax dollars, er tax baht, are paying for services in your country of residence, not your former country of residence, pretty much covers the integrity and functionality bases -- just as the tax treaty intended.

 

TurboTax (and I'm sure other tax software programs) handle this tax credit easily.

 

For what it's worth, I'm a retired CPA (although, when active, I dealt with airline employees, not expats). So, if you do take the tax credit, and you do get audited (fat chance) -- just tell them you relied on the advice of a CPA. Just don't tell them he hung up his license 15 years ago, and now relies on selective inputs from internet forums. ????

 

 

[moontang]

Credit is worthless. Unless you owe.  Tax ID is miles easier than yellow book, but that may have been what made it easy.. Without a WP.  Ms Ae at the CM Office by Holiday Inn was super helpful.. Night and day compared to immigration.  Have filed down here and it was quick and easy, too.  No need to go to your home branch of revenue office.. But I did already have tax ID. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by moontang

[Orton Rd]

4 hours ago, tonray said:

Not worth the hassle for a few hundred baht annually. I consider it part of my contribution toward whatever services I benefit from in Thailand. After all I don't pay any other btax outside of immigration nonsense fees.

 

Few thousand not hundreds, personally I cannot think of any services I benefit from that I don't pay for anyway and I don't want to give this government one satang if I can help it. I opened an account with Krungthai and apparently will get the refund paid into that account, even though stopped out of Krungsri one. It's a bit of a chore, but it does seem they are only stopping the tax on foreign accounts, so why not get it back.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Orton Rd

[HampiK]

I had my Tax return in my bank account about 1 week after fill in the tax papers online. with the new option to also upload the tax documents, it's even easier this year, then before. Not have to visit the Tax Revenue department anymore. If you have problems, the Tax office in my area Klongsan Bangkok was very helpfull the first 2 years with helping fill out the form online. Now I can do it myself at it takes about 10-15 minutes. 

After that 1 week wait and the money will be available in the account. Of course it's of advantage if you have linked an existing Thai ID (13-Digits) to your account, then there is also less hasle.....

 

 

On 1/29/2021 at 6:53 PM, EricTh said:

 

Most Thais can't speak English at an intermediate level, there's always some communication problem with them.

Even when they tried to speak English, I can't understand what they are saying due to broken grammar and wrong use of vocabulary.

If you complain about Thais can't speak enough English... what's about your Thai knowledge, as you stay in Thailand!

I hear most complains about Thais are not able to understand English or whatever language they prefer from people who would complain in their hometown about foreigners coming there and not able to speak the local language!