Is It Still Worth Moving To Thailand?

[ThaiGoon]

[bkkandrew]

Thaigoon, I am glad you find Chonabot's moderation so funny. Perhaps if you carry on in such hilarity, you can be suspended again?

PS - sorry Chon, but he is a pain...

[ThaiGoon]

Thaigoon, I am glad you find Chonabot's moderation so funny. Perhaps if you carry on in such hilarity, you can be suspended again?

PS - sorry Chon, but he is a pain...

That post was meant for Chinthee's post. If you look at the times of the postings, you probably would be able to figure out that I posted that comment without seeing Chonabot's. I think Chonabot obviously saw this.

Edited May 24, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[Maigo6]

By The Way.................................

My Japanese GF has a Sister who is younger, she is 22, drop dead gorgeous, has never had a bf before.....................................guess what, she asked me if I knew some good Gaijin/Farang/ guys she could meet.....what a shame, I don't know any.

It's the truth guys, after living in Thailand for 17 years, I don't think I know one Farang that I could 'hand on my heart' recommend.

( Apart from myself )

Edited May 24, 2007 by Maigo6

[qwertz]

So, what you're saying is, Thailand is no place for loners and misanthropes?

Edited May 24, 2007 by qwertz

[Maigo6]

So, what you're saying is, Thailand is no place for loners and misanthropes?

Gwertz, I think there are many good Farangs in Thailand actually...........

They just don't want to admit it on an internet forum.

[dumspero]

JRTexas- Why is it that you bring in JFK in the first place? Then, when I question that as an aside you attack Bush. I'm no Bush fan either, if that's what you're implying. I just don't think it's constructive to think that today's politicians are so bad, as a general matter, compared to the allegedly great few of the past that a person can make artificially great by mythologizing them. JFK did some good and some bad (and I don't care about his personal life; I'm talking about policy and leadership only). Same with Washington and Lincoln, my own two favorites. They did some great things, but it's naive to pretend they were so incredibly wonderful compared to today's crop.

BACK ON TOPIC. How condescending toward Thais to think the low end farangs are needed to support the poor Thai girls in Pattaya. That kind of rationalizing often comes from the low end farangs that the visa restrictions will, hopefully, reduce in number if not outright drive out toward Angeles and other places.

And to clarify, I don't think 'low end' has to do with lifestyle vis a vis Thai women or with financial means per se. It's just that many of the hard up farangs are the ones who are undesirable in so many ways, including the way they treat the women. And if we're honest, we must admit that the kind of farang who thinks he's so needed by these 'poor' Thai girls in Pattaya is very likely to be the type that lords it over them and otherwise treats them like shit. UNDESIRABLE.

CONCLUSION: Thailand is getting more and more worth moving to all the time thanks in part to the tightening visa restrictions. And there will always be other places the pathetic visa victims can drain off to.

[kankaroo]

JRTexas- Why is it that you bring in JFK in the first place? Then, when I question that as an aside you attack Bush. I'm no Bush fan either, if that's what you're implying. I just don't think it's constructive to think that today's politicians are so bad, as a general matter, compared to the allegedly great few of the past that a person can make artificially great by mythologizing them. JFK did some good and some bad (and I don't care about his personal life; I'm talking about policy and leadership only). Same with Washington and Lincoln, my own two favorites. They did some great things, but it's naive to pretend they were so incredibly wonderful compared to today's crop.

BACK ON TOPIC. How condescending toward Thais to think the low end farangs are needed to support the poor Thai girls in Pattaya. That kind of rationalizing often comes from the low end farangs that the visa restrictions will, hopefully, reduce in number if not outright drive out toward Angeles and other places.

And to clarify, I don't think 'low end' has to do with lifestyle vis a vis Thai women or with financial means per se. It's just that many of the hard up farangs are the ones who are undesirable in so many ways, including the way they treat the women. And if we're honest, we must admit that the kind of farang who thinks he's so needed by these 'poor' Thai girls in Pattaya is very likely to be the type that lords it over them and otherwise treats them like shit. UNDESIRABLE.

CONCLUSION: Thailand is getting more and more worth moving to all the time thanks in part to the tightening visa restrictions. And there will always be other places the pathetic visa victims can drain off to.

[Ulysses G.]

I went to the US to study then I'll go back home. I didn't go to the US because I thought the US was a lot cheaper and had a lot of cheap prostitutes.

Why on earth do you need prostitutes, cheap or otherwise?

I lived in the US for 3 and a half years and never discussed such matters. Shame on you!

Oh well. I guess that was too subtle for bkkandrew.

Hmm, so let me get this straight... I was not subtle enough to seek out the price of prostitutes whilst living in the US...

Got to hand it to you! If that is the result of Subtlety, then you are welcome!

You still don't get it. This is getting funny.

From what I can see, he didn't "get it" because it wasn't written in clear English, not because of some fault in his thinking.

[ThaiGoon]

From what I can see, he didn't "get it" because it wasn't written in clear English, not because of some fault in his thinking.

I said I didn't go to the US because it was a cheaper country and had a lot of cheap prostitutes. Which part of it was not clear?

[JR Texas]

I went to the US to study then I'll go back home. I didn't go to the US because I thought the US was a lot cheaper and had a lot of cheap prostitutes.

Why on earth do you need prostitutes, cheap or otherwise?

I lived in the US for 3 and a half years and never discussed such matters. Shame on you!

Oh well. I guess that was too subtle for bkkandrew.

Hmm, so let me get this straight... I was not subtle enough to seek out the price of prostitutes whilst living in the US...

Got to hand it to you! If that is the result of Subtlety, then you are welcome!

You still don't get it. This is getting funny.

From what I can see, he didn't "get it" because it wasn't written in clear English, not because of some fault in his thinking.

JR Texas to Dumspero and Maigo6: Interesting stuff and most of it off topic.

To Dumspero, I wonder if your tune will change when the visa bar finally negatively impacts you. People with wealth often lose it........things change........one minute you are in and the next minute you are out. It happens all of the time. If you think you are immune to this, I think you are not seeing the big picture. My guess is that you are a young man who has not yet experienced extreme pain/loss and extreme pleasure/gain.

To Maigo6: I actually went into shock after reading something you wrote earlier......shock because I found myself partially agreeing with you (we are normally on opposite sides of the fence).

Yes, many farangs come here because it is one place they can still be with a woman.......many are very lonely and delude themselves into thinking that the girls love them........many are starved for love and affection.........many are total psychopaths that need to be locked up.

But not all of the farangs fit the above picture. Many of them are good and decent human beings who could have moved almost anywhere (by this I mean any relatively inexpensive place to live) but decided Thailand was best for them. Some have genuine relationships....families....children. But you know this.

Off topic again, but I would like to point out that the vast majority of prostitution in Thailand has nothing to do with farangs.......my guess is that 98% of it involves Thai males and Thai females. But, unfortunately, the ruling elite have decided to create an economic system that benefits the top 1% and throws scraps at the bottom 99%. Some girls, out of desperation (and believe it or not most Thai girls are extremely shy), are forced into prostitution (some do choose it as it pays well). And some do rely on money they get from farangs........just look at all the new house construction going on in places like Isan......a lot of that can be traced to farang money (lets me honest about it).

And why not move to Japan? South of France? Switzerland? Because of the $$$$$$$$$ Many farangs chose Thailand because of economic circumstances. So what? Does that make them bad people? The funny thing is that many of them think they are rich and act like it but are far from being rich. Most rich people do not migrate to the developing world. They have ranches in Montana or villas off the coast of Italy, etc. If they think of Thailand at all, it is only to visit on a short time basis......something new to do to fight the boredom of having already been everywhere and done everything.

Back on topic: Is Thailand still a good place to move to? Is it worth it to move to Thailand? That depends on so many factors.....and answers to this are not always dependent on personal circumstances. Some people can use reason to rise above personal circumstances and reach a decision based on the totality of events taking place around them. I, for one, do not have a visa problem. I am a professor at a university in Thailand. I am not rich, but I am not poor. I do not need to visit bar girls.........I have a social life and a house, etc. But I still complain..........and my view is that Thailand is going downhill fast.

I also think the securitization of migration is causing major problems for expats and will only hurt Thailand's economy. But that is my view...........Dumspero and Maigo6 obviously have a different view and think things have never been better in Thailand and that the changes to the visa rules are wonderful.

Time, as always, will be the ultimate judge. Sorry about the tomb.

[kmart]

By The Way.................................

My Japanese GF has a Sister who is younger, she is 22, drop dead gorgeous, has never had a bf before.....................................guess what, she asked me if I knew some good Gaijin/Farang/ guys she could meet.....what a shame, I don't know any.

It's the truth guys, after living in Thailand for 17 years, I don't think I know one Farang that I could 'hand on my heart' recommend.

( Apart from myself )

Alpha Males don't recommend other male competitors into situations they see themselves best occupying. Purely an anthropological observation.

Are you a "Farang"; or "gaijin" (barbarian) yourself? Or are you equally dismissive of all species?

[ThaiGoon]

Oh by the way, I think I got the unclear part. I should have said, I went to the US because I wanted to study there, not because it was cheaper...etc. Anyway, never mind.

[dumspero]

JRTexas- I liked your pun about 'tomb.' To answer your guess, I'm not at all wealthy by the standards of our mutual country, the US. I'm not young and not old--am middle aged at 45. Have gone through deaths in the family, divorce and similar. So luckier than most, but have seen tragedy.

I agree that I could suffer personal financial and/or health failure and not make it to Thailand. But I'm not posting primarily about what's good for me. Maybe the visa restrictions will tighten to the point that I can't make it to Thailand. So what. I can find another country and more importantly that would mean Thailand was doing even better than in recent years. So good for Thailand and its people if that happens.

I don't know about you, but I don't see how most of us can live with Thais in our lives, homes, beds and hearts for a few decades and not want to see the country continue its upward climb (with 'adjustments,' admittedly), even if that's not good for us personally.

Your posts show you have a good heart--for example the heroes you pick among leaders. So even though you seem to tend to see the glass half empty while I see it half full, I suspect you want it to be full just as much as I do. We just tend to disagree about the current water level and how to fill it...

And again, I admit that financial means is an imperfect fit, but reallly, is it so drastic if the Kingdom only wants foreigners with, say, even $3,000 US per month in retirement income in one form or another? So the limits are hardly tight now.

Thaigoon- Your posts above are clear. Some posters just don't agree with the content and so they seek to discredit you personally as too young, too Thai, too 'living in the US' or some other meaningless thing because it's too difficult to refute the content.

[ThaiGoon]

Cheers krab khun Dumspero. Thanks.

[Ulysses G.]

I went to the US to study then I'll go back home.

Is this sentence clear?

When you add the second sentence it becomes even more difficult to understand.

[dumspero]

It's clear to me.

[dumspero]

And I don't know Thaigoon, but sometimes I think maybe I also know where he's coming from. In particular, I remember many Thais at the University of Michigan who found an odd disconnect between the Americans they would tend to meet in the US and the farangs they'd known in Thailand. A huge generalization, to be sure, but one can only wonder at the contrast in attitude between Thaigoon's American student friends and the attitude displayed by a number of the posters on this forum.

[ThaiGoon]

And I don't know Thaigoon, but sometimes I think maybe I also know where he's coming from. In particular, I remember many Thais at the University of Michigan who found an odd disconnect between the Americans they would tend to meet in the US and the farangs they'd known in Thailand. A huge generalization, to be sure, but one can only wonder at the contrast in attitude between Thaigoon's American student friends and the attitude displayed by a number of the posters on this forum.

You are so right krab khun Dumspero. My American student friends are a lot nicer and a lot more understanding than several people on here. Sometimes when I read comments on this board, I wonder what Thailand has ever done to these people? Why do hate Thailand and Thai people so much? Why do they always wanna put Thailand down at every opportunity they can, yet they still don't leave the country? Why do they seem to always wish for a disaster in Thailand? What has Thailand ever done to them to deserve this kind of sad personal vendetta? Anyway, it's great to see someone who's understanding like you and khun highdiver krab. It's really refreshing. Cheers krab.

[sbk]

I agree, some people do seem so miserable and hateful that it makes me wonder why they stay if they are so miserable. But I also think that you, ThaiGoon, have difficulty seeing constructive criticism for what it is and tend to take such criticisms too much to heart and assume the worst from those posting.

As an American, I get all kinds of crap from people who assume that I am somehow personally responsible for the policies of the US govt for the past 40 years. I have just learned to develop a tough skin and realize that people who are so small minded as to carry such opinions are usually not worth my energy to dispute. I think you need a tougher skin, ThaiGoon

Anyway, back to the whole idea if Thailand is worth it to move here or not. Well, I guess it depends on the reasons you live here. For me, it is worth it because this is my husband's home, as long as he is there, its worth it for me.

And yes, that is enough

[ThaiGoon]

I agree, some people do seem so miserable and hateful that it makes me wonder why they stay if they are so miserable. But I also think that you, ThaiGoon, have difficulty seeing constructive criticism for what it is and tend to take such criticisms too much to heart and assume the worst from those posting.

As an American, I get all kinds of crap from people who assume that I am somehow personally responsible for the policies of the US govt for the past 40 years. I have just learned to develop a tough skin and realize that people who are so small minded as to carry such opinions are usually not worth my energy to dispute. I think you need a tougher skin, ThaiGoon

Anyway, back to the whole idea if Thailand is worth it to move here or not. Well, I guess it depends on the reasons you live here. For me, it is worth it because this is my husband's home, as long as he is there, its worth it for me.

And yes, that is enough

Trust me Sbk. I can tell what is an honest caring constructive criticism and what is pure sinister attempt to put down Thailand and Thai people.

I'll give you one example from the Thai economy is in crisis thread.

Prakanong:

An old Marxist would have a field day looking at Thailand and its feudalism, egrarian society and the wannabe bourgeois ;-))

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...8172&st=345

Is this what you could call "constructive criticism"? Seriously. You can find several other similar comments there as well if you care to look at it.

Edited May 25, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[Edonista]

I went to the US to study then I'll go back home. I didn't go to the US because I thought the US was a lot cheaper and had a lot of cheap prostitutes.

Why on earth do you need prostitutes, cheap or otherwise?

I lived in the US for 3 and a half years and never discussed such matters. Shame on you!

Oh well. I guess that was too subtle for bkkandrew.

Hmm, so let me get this straight... I was not subtle enough to seek out the price of prostitutes whilst living in the US...

Got to hand it to you! If that is the result of Subtlety, then you are welcome!

You still don't get it. This is getting funny.

From what I can see, he didn't "get it" because it wasn't written in clear English, not because of some fault in his thinking.

JR Texas to Dumspero and Maigo6: Interesting stuff and most of it off topic.

To Dumspero, I wonder if your tune will change when the visa bar finally negatively impacts you. People with wealth often lose it........things change........one minute you are in and the next minute you are out. It happens all of the time. If you think you are immune to this, I think you are not seeing the big picture. My guess is that you are a young man who has not yet experienced extreme pain/loss and extreme pleasure/gain.

To Maigo6: I actually went into shock after reading something you wrote earlier......shock because I found myself partially agreeing with you (we are normally on opposite sides of the fence).

Yes, many farangs come here because it is one place they can still be with a woman.......many are very lonely and delude themselves into thinking that the girls love them........many are starved for love and affection.........many are total psychopaths that need to be locked up.

But not all of the farangs fit the above picture. Many of them are good and decent human beings who could have moved almost anywhere (by this I mean any relatively inexpensive place to live) but decided Thailand was best for them. Some have genuine relationships....families....children. But you know this.

Off topic again, but I would like to point out that the vast majority of prostitution in Thailand has nothing to do with farangs.......my guess is that 98% of it involves Thai males and Thai females. But, unfortunately, the ruling elite have decided to create an economic system that benefits the top 1% and throws scraps at the bottom 99%. Some girls, out of desperation (and believe it or not most Thai girls are extremely shy), are forced into prostitution (some do choose it as it pays well). And some do rely on money they get from farangs........just look at all the new house construction going on in places like Isan......a lot of that can be traced to farang money (lets me honest about it).

And why not move to Japan? South of France? Switzerland? Because of the $$$$$$$$$ Many farangs chose Thailand because of economic circumstances. So what? Does that make them bad people? The funny thing is that many of them think they are rich and act like it but are far from being rich. Most rich people do not migrate to the developing world. They have ranches in Montana or villas off the coast of Italy, etc. If they think of Thailand at all, it is only to visit on a short time basis......something new to do to fight the boredom of having already been everywhere and done everything.

Back on topic: Is Thailand still a good place to move to? Is it worth it to move to Thailand? That depends on so many factors.....and answers to this are not always dependent on personal circumstances. Some people can use reason to rise above personal circumstances and reach a decision based on the totality of events taking place around them. I, for one, do not have a visa problem. I am a professor at a university in Thailand. I am not rich, but I am not poor. I do not need to visit bar girls.........I have a social life and a house, etc. But I still complain..........and my view is that Thailand is going downhill fast.

I also think the securitization of migration is causing major problems for expats and will only hurt Thailand's economy. But that is my view...........Dumspero and Maigo6 obviously have a different view and think things have never been better in Thailand and that the changes to the visa rules are wonderful.

Time, as always, will be the ultimate judge. Sorry about the tomb.

Thank you JR you saved me the effort of replying to Maigo and Dumspero silliness.

Btw I think time has already started to judge.

[dumspero]

sbk- Huge caveat first that perhaps should go without saying. Your perspective formed over going on 4 years; mine only since January of this year.

But, since Jannuary 2007, 'constructive criticism,' really? The exchange on this thread started when bkkandrew made fun of Thaigoon for agreeing with Maigo. bkkandrew found it cute or relevant for some reason to note that Thaigoon is Thai and lives in the US. So what. Maybe bkkandrew was just being funny and/or baiting Thaigoon, and sure people are on here for different reasons, but that's not contructive criticism.

I don't agree with all of Thaigoon's posts (what is said or how), but many times his positions seem quite reasonable and then posters bait him or just outright show hate, either first and then he responds, or afterward in response to his posts.

So while I agree that Thaigoon (and others of us) sometimes need to have a thicker skin, we all have our weak points and wow, what a surprise, a Thai citizen is sensitive about mindless hatred of Thailand, Thai people, Thai laws and Thai culture. Just like many of us don't like mindless criticism of our own countries.

And to come at it from another angle, where is an example of him over-reacting to constructive criticism? For example, if I say I believe Thailand would be better off with a truly independent judiciary, such as the one the US is still striving for but certainly further along toward having, I doubt that would get his dander up. Same if I said it's hypocritical when Thai officials focus disproportinately on the smaller foreign clientele of prostitutes rather than the larger grouop of Thais users or even the overall clientele. I doubt that would get his dander up. On the other hand, if I throw out a sneering one liner about the Thai judiciary, that might be offensive. And if the forum allows those kind of attacks (as I think it should; that kind of nonsense dies fastest in the sunlight), then it should also tolerate the indignant responses from other posters.

[dumspero]

Geez, I hope we're not forming up into teams, Edonista. I disagree with Maigo as often as with JRTexas.

But I can honestly say I disagree with every post of yours that I can recall. Cheers.

[sbk]

sbk- Huge caveat first that perhaps should go without saying. Your perspective formed over going on 4 years; mine only since January of this year.

But, since Jannuary 2007, 'constructive criticism,' really? The exchange on this thread started when bkkandrew made fun of Thaigoon for agreeing with Maigo. bkkandrew found it cute or relevant for some reason to note that Thaigoon is Thai and lives in the US. So what. Maybe bkkandrew was just being funny and/or baiting Thaigoon, and sure people are on here for different reasons, but that's not contructive criticism.

I don't agree with all of Thaigoon's posts (what is said or how), but many times his positions seem quite reasonable and then posters bait him or just outright show hate, either first and then he responds, or afterward in response to his posts.

So while I agree that Thaigoon (and others of us) sometimes need to have a thicker skin, we all have our weak points and wow, what a surprise, a Thai citizen is sensitive about mindless hatred of Thailand, Thai people, Thai laws and Thai culture. Just like many of us don't like mindless criticism of our own countries.

And to come at it from another angle, where is an example of him over-reacting to constructive criticism? For example, if I say I believe Thailand would be better off with a truly independent judiciary, such as the one the US is still striving for but certainly further along toward having, I doubt that would get his dander up. Same if I said it's hypocritical when Thai officials focus disproportinately on the smaller foreign clientele of prostitutes rather than the larger grouop of Thais users or even the overall clientele. I doubt that would get his dander up. On the other hand, if I throw out a sneering one liner about the Thai judiciary, that might be offensive. And if the forum allows those kind of attacks (as I think it should; that kind of nonsense dies fastest in the sunlight), then it should also tolerate the indignant responses from other posters.

I didn't suggest that everyone offered constructive criticism did I? Just that I have seen, as a moderator, not just ThaiGoon, but many members react strongly to something that is perceived as a criticism when it isn't necessarily so. I am not willing to go into examples here, and I do believe I stated that there are members who are miserable and full of hate. Just not everyone.

Thaigoon is not the discussion here but if anyone sees him being personally attacked simply because he is Thai feel free to use the report button. You are as much a part of the moderation of this forum as us moderators.

Anyway, that is not what is under discussion here, and if we get off of personal attacks against other members, this could be an interesting thread

I have to say, I find it fascinating that so many judge living in Thailand by what kind of lifestyle it offers. That people would move here just because its cheap or warm or whatever. And move away because it no longer offers what they want.

[Dakhar]

I went to the US to study then I'll go back home. I didn't go to the US because I thought the US was a lot cheaper and had a lot of cheap prostitutes.

So you went to America because Thailand offered a lousy education & America (evil falang land) offers better? Yes, your cheap protitutes will still be here when you get back. You will be able to practice your English with them, although prices may be higher than what you were used to.

All this talk of only falang failures come to Thailand gets old. I am sure there are a lot, I have seen a lot, and yes it irratates me. But if Thailand was so full of winners.... why is that failures can come here and live the life of luxury? On the scale of thinks if they are able to come to Thailand and live it up, where does that place Thailand? Seems to me, falangs may just be returning to the flock so to speak.

Why am I here..... the wife insisted on comming back to her home land. Despite its many problems.... it is still her home, & she loves it here better than the US. (family ties are hard for Thais to break)

[JR Texas]

Geez, I hope we're not forming up into teams, Edonista. I disagree with Maigo as often as with JRTexas.

But I can honestly say I disagree with every post of yours that I can recall. Cheers.

JR Texas to Dumspero: Thanks for the earlier post that made me think "Dumspero is actually human!" We can agree to disagree. But about your mother..........ha ha ha.....just kidding.

In the end, we all need to: come together..........right now..........over??????....perhaps John Lennon would say "a common desire to create a better world for both present and future generations."

Good luck to the left, right, center, pessimists, optimists, all isms........etc.

[qwertz]

Threads often seem seem to turn to oldster or farang bashing and the old farang often becomes the favoured target.

I see the subject from a different angle as I'm an expat in Europe

Many older men here are divorced or widowed, have worked hard and are due to be pensioned.

They are often alone because their grown up family has little time for them.

Due to family or business commitments they never had the time or opportunity before to visit exotic places.

They are faced with the prospect of a boring retirement on a modest pension in the company of other pensioners.

That modest pension which hardly covers the heating bills here can ensure a relatively comfortable life in LOS.

I don't think most of these men actually move to LOS for the mongering, they discover it when they get there.

The first move is usually made by the women; old men are favoured targets for them too, for obvious reasons.

Most of these newer arrivals are not welcomed by the farangs already entrenched there because they might upset the balance, drive up the prices or alert the authorities that it's time to move the visa goalposts yet again.

It's a knotty problem for us all, especially men like me, due to retire and weighing all the pros and cons before making a decision on where to retire to.

The salient point is; men like me are not going to retire to a place where we're stigmatised and clearly not liked by the farangs or the locals.

[Maigo6]

OK, the gig is up, we all know she is not Japanese. It is a dead give away, she has straight teeth. We also know she is not Thai, that is OBVIOUS, maybe Korean?

Japanese.

[qwertz]

OK, the gig is up, we all know she is not Japanese. It is a dead give away, she has straight teeth. We also know she is not Thai, that is OBVIOUS, maybe Korean?

Japanese.

Well, I'm glad we got that question out of the way.