Bangkok Pattaya Hospital..Where is the Care?...

[thebounder]

By all means raise issues, but don't blindly support a hospital that clearly you know little about. Many of us have lived in Pattaya for many years and know first hand from bitter personal experience exactly what the place is like.

On the question of evidence, having been a practicising trial lawyer for many years, I have a reasonable take on that too. The evidence on this thread is actually extremely compelling. In truth, if this was a med neg trial in a common law jurisdiction, the very fact that a high end hospital with a self proclaimed state of the art trauma centre admits to sending a critically injured trauma patient such as Matt to a hospital as basic as Chonburi would probably be subject to the doctrine of Res Ipsa Loquitor (the facts speak for themselves is the rough translation). In very simple terms, the effect of it would be that the burden of proof would shift from the plaintiff to the defendent. Their actions appear so clearly to be wrong that it would fall to the defendent to explain them, and I find it very hard to believe that any Court would accept the blood argument from a trauma centre (which, as someone earlier explained, is about as convincing as a pub with no beer, i.e just about possible, but extremely unlikely).

In most cases the rule tends to be the most simple explanation is usually the right one. Knowing BPH from prior personal experience, the simple explanation in Matt's case would be pretty much the same as what happened to my wife's friend. Simple would seem to be, delivered by rescuers in return for payment, no ID, no wallet or money, no friend to agree to cover the cost, thus BPH not interested and off to the Government hospital in Chonburi. Maybe I am wrong, but in the absence of anything further, it seems by far and away the most likely explanation. If BPH could show me a similar case where a fully insured patient was shipped off for treatment to Chonburi hospital while critical, I would be far more inclined to believe their claims. I doubt very much whether they could do so.

I'm not blindly supporting the BPH hospital. I've heard enough in this thread to cause me to stay clear of this hospital should I ever be unfortunate enough to fall sick in Pattaya.

What I'm supporting is the principle of "innocent until proved guilty" and the principle that "circumstantial evidence can never be conclusive".

There are two issues in this thread; one, that the BPH has a poor record of care in the eyes of a relatively few ex-pats, and two, Matt's death is just another example, but a very serious example, of this poor care.

You'll notice a few posts ago, I wrote that if Matt did not have a rare blood type, then it's difficult to appreciate any reason why he should have been transferred to Chonburi. We need further explanation from the hospital on this issue which might not be as black and white as some of you seem to think. I presume that all blood groups do not fall into the category of either rare or not rare. There are probably some groups that are quite rare, moderately rare or not particularly common.

The evidence we are talking about here is BPH's own statement that they sent this critically injured man to Chonburi hospital. Please explain how that could ever be defined as circumstantial evidence. What you have here is actually direct evidence, i.e the complete opposite of circumstantial evidence.

You have said you have not been to Chonburi hospital. If you had, you would know perfectly well that if Matt's wellbeing was BPH's primary motivation, they would not have sent him there. Believe me, it is a black and white issue.

Edited June 1, 2007 by thebounder

[thai_narak]

BarryZ would rather have long and endless discussion in this thread than to believe and accept that there is something wrong with BPH. I tired of this... I'm outta here.

[onzestan]

Onzestan,

If what you say is true, it's difficult to imagine how they could continue in business. My first impression was that BPH was the only private hospital in Pattaya. Phil Connors advises me there are also a few other private hospitals, as well as a few public hospitals. Let the market determine the outcome. Word of mouth advertising, whether positive or negative, can be very powerful.

But remember also that bad news is usually more interesting than good news. We seem to be fascinated by scandals and disasters. As I mentioned before, my mother spent her working life as a nurse in the U.K. in several hospitals, eventually becoming a mid-wife. The impression I got from the daily anecdotes over say a 12 year periiod was that all hospitals are places of chaotic disaster. Consider yourself lucky if things go right.

Dear Barry,

Allow me to remind you that Pattaya is a tourist town, and that's the clientele that BPH is aiming for, because most of these tourist will have travel insurance. Furthermore they have very, very good clout at government level, big sponsors of the traffic police, local newspapers and local TV stations.

Because your mother worked in several U.K. hospitals, doesn't mean you can appreciate the local conditions of a place where you are not staying.

You core belief that everyone is innocent if not proven guilty is admirable, but completely out of place in this instance. The BPH has proven to us local expats time and time again that they are not worthy to be called Hospital but unfortunately the only thing we can do is boycotting them and as I did inform our insurance company.

And let's not forget that ïf" is a very big word and you use it quite often to implicate that you're not believing what has been said. I do believe that your motives in posting here are right, it's just that you're barking up the wrong three.

Regards

onzestan

[Barryz]

By the way, I just typed into Google search, Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, and on the first page came across the following quote from an organisation that calls itself the "Pattaya Expats Club".

Hospitals:

There are four or five hospitals in the Pattaya area, all providing excellent care but at widely varying prices. However, compared to the United States the cost at all of them is minimal (even if you have no insurance) and the convenience (access to specialists, little waiting time) sure beats service in the United Kingdom.

Two hospitals go out of their way to provide health care services to foreigners with up scale facilities, packaged health care options and no language barriers with the nurses and doctors. There is the Pattaya International Hospital and the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital, and this second one has the lower prices.

My recommendation is to use the Bangkok Pattaya hospital and to consider purchasing one of their health care packages. For 2,000 to 3,000 baht (US$45 to US$70) you get a thorough physical, plus good discounts on any future visits to the Emergency Room and treatment as an in patient at the hospital. Check out the available packages soon after you arrive in Pattaya, rather than waiting until you need their services.

Now this might simply be a paid advertisement from the BPH. I wouldn't know. But it certainly paints a different picture to that of most of the posters in this thread.

Is there no-one prepared to stand up and declare what fine treatment he/she has received from the BPH?

[Phil Conners]

Pattaya Expats Club is "owned" by Niels Colow who also owns Pattaya People and is a member of the BPH cheerleader team.

Edited June 2, 2007 by Phil Conners

[onzestan]

Is there no-one prepared to stand up and declare what fine treatment he/she has received from the BPH?

OK I'll grant you your wish, a couple of years ago I needed a T.U.R.P. (google for it).

One outstanding doctor at BPH, an UROLOGIST working part time there (as most of the doctors are at BPH) said to me : Quote : I can do, and rest assured there is absolutely no danger, I do this intervention about 50 times a week, BUT at this hospital it would cost you about 150.000 Baht, and if you don't mind to travel to SriRacha PhyaThai hospital it would cost you between 40 and 50.000 Baht depending if you have to stay 2 or 3 nights because of bleeding. unquote.

As it turned out it the final bill came to 46.360 Baht, for a very professionally done intervention and 2 nights in a room with all the frills and wonderful nurses.

That's the only time that I have gotten good advice at BPH.

Now if you don't WANT to believe us, there is absolutely nothing we can do or say to change your opinion, and I for one am getting sick and tired about you constantly implying that we don't know what we are talking about.

Please go away and leave us in our ignorance.

onzestan

[Barryz]

Is there no-one prepared to stand up and declare what fine treatment he/she has received from the BPH?

OK I'll grant you your wish, a couple of years ago I needed a T.U.R.P. (google for it).

One outstanding doctor at BPH, an UROLOGIST working part time there (as most of the doctors are at BPH) said to me : Quote : I can do, and rest assured there is absolutely no danger, I do this intervention about 50 times a week, BUT at this hospital it would cost you about 150.000 Baht, and if you don't mind to travel to SriRacha PhyaThai hospital it would cost you between 40 and 50.000 Baht depending if you have to stay 2 or 3 nights because of bleeding. unquote.

As it turned out it the final bill came to 46.360 Baht, for a very professionally done intervention and 2 nights in a room with all the frills and wonderful nurses.

That's the only time that I have gotten good advice at BPH.

Now if you don't WANT to believe us, there is absolutely nothing we can do or say to change your opinion, and I for one am getting sick and tired about you constantly implying that we don't know what we are talking about.

Please go away and leave us in our ignorance.

onzestan

You weren't by any chance rude to the urologist at the BPH, who referred you to another hospital, were you?

[onzestan]

You weren't by any chance rude to the urologist at the BPH, who referred you to another hospital, were you?

No I wasn't, I rarely am, but I have reached the end of my patience with your bickering, and I'm only human.

Furthermore If you think that constantly putting the words of well meaning posters in doubt is not rude then let me inform you that this attitude is not only rude but quite insulting also.

This topic is about the unfortunate dead of an in Pattaya admired young man, and you have turned it into a yes/no circus insofar that many members have been turned of by your meddling with something you don't no sh*t about.

No need to reply, I've had it with you and your so called looking for the truth attitude.

regards

onzestan

[Barryz]

You weren't by any chance rude to the urologist at the BPH, who referred you to another hospital, were you?

No I wasn't, I rarely am, but I have reached the end of my patience with your bickering, and I'm only human.

Furthermore If you think that constantly putting the words of well meaning posters in doubt is not rude then let me inform you that this attitude is not only rude but quite insulting also.

This topic is about the unfortunate dead of an in Pattaya admired young man, and you have turned it into a yes/no circus insofar that many members have been turned of by your meddling with something you don't no sh*t about.

No need to reply, I've had it with you and your so called looking for the truth attitude.

regards

onzestan

Ah! I'm now beginning to see what might be part of the problem. I think we might have an attitude problem in Pattaya with regard to a bunch of crude and rude chauvinistic males. It sure doesn't help.

[raro]

Dear Barry,

yes indeed, attitude could well be a big part of your problem.

With all due respect and no intention to flame you, but what you post in this thread is only leading into an argument with zero benefit to the topic as such. I was actually a couple of times during this thread close to reporting you as a troll as you seem to look rather into arguing than admitting that we, the board members who actually do live in Pattaya, have first hand accounts of what is going on at the BHP and do not idealize a humanitarian institution from somewhere far away.

With very best regards

raro

[Barryz]

Dear Barry,

yes indeed, attitude could well be a big part of your problem.

With all due respect and no intention to flame you, but what you post in this thread is only leading into an argument with zero benefit to the topic as such. I was actually a couple of times during this thread close to reporting you as a troll as you seem to look rather into arguing than admitting that we, the board members who actually do live in Pattaya, have first hand accounts of what is going on at the BHP and do not idealize a humanitarian institution from somewhere far away.

With very best regards

raro

I can't think why you should regard me as a troll. This thread started off with some absolutely shocking and unbelievable statements that a hospital had turned away a seriously injured guy brought to them in a pick-up truck because he had no ID. Nothing I have contributed to this thread comes anywhere near as being as inflammatory as that. Without a clarifying statement from the hospital, you'd probably all still believe that that was the situation.

I suppose you still believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction because the CIA must have know their job.

[Mobi]

There is absolutely not a shadow of doubt in my mind that BarryZ is enjoying immensely his brief moment of fame, and is sitting at his PC, licking his lips, awaiting the next outraged poster to fall into his 'trollish' trap.

He smart enough not to flame, and as such will permitted to go on with his highly provocative posts indefinitely, - so you will never win.

He is having the time of his life, and he will never stop until you guys stop.

It is such a shame, as this is a serious thread with serious issues to air, and IMHO. this person has totally ruined it and made a mockery of a sensible debate and is sticking his fingers up at all the good things that Thai Visa stands for.

As I said on the 'sister thread' on BHP the other day...BarryZ, SHAME ON YOU, and on all your unfeeling and uncaring acolytes.

I hope you can live with yourself.

[onzestan]

Ah! I'm now beginning to see what might be part of the problem. I think we might have an attitude problem in Pattaya with regard to a bunch of crude and rude chauvinistic males. It sure doesn't help.

Only people that I consider superior to me can insult me, and your not one of them.

onzestan

[larvidchr]

There is absolutely not a shadow of doubt in my mind that BarryZ is enjoying immensely his brief moment of fame, and is sitting at his PC, licking his lips, awaiting the next outraged poster to fall into his 'trollish' trap.

He smart enough not to flame, and as such will permitted to go on with his highly provocative posts indefinitely, - so you will never win.

He is having the time of his life, and he will never stop until you guys stop.

It is such a shame, as this is a serious thread with serious issues to air, and IMHO. this person has totally ruined it and made a mockery of a sensible debate and is sticking his fingers up at all the good things that Thai Visa stands for.

As I said on the 'sister thread' on BHP the other day...BarryZ, SHAME ON YOU, and on all your unfeeling and uncaring acolytes.

I hope you can live with yourself.

I second this.

Barryz you promised in an post a while back you would butt out, I mistakenly took you on your word, you are not a gentleman, and you should really be ashamed of yourself . It is not nice to wish for somebody being run over by a truck and stuck in Chonburi hospital, and I dont, but sometimes it can be really hard to stay on the narrow path of virtue. There is no doubt in my mind, that you are a deeply disturbed individual, getting your rocks of doing this

Edited June 3, 2007 by larvidchr

[suiging]

Barry. No matter what your motives are, the majority of folk on this thread have actual experience of the BPH. You do not.

Your comments on objectivity are noted and yes there is always two sides to every argument. The expatriate community who choose to make Pattaya their home, come onto threads like this to voice their concerns over repeated real incidents which culminated in a horrific act which we, like you certainly do not know the the full truth of as it now stands. However, you have lost your way claiming many of the incidents reported here are in some way figments of our collective imagination and that it is our attitudes which have caused this distress.

This I am afraid makes your comments in many eyes fatuous and your attitude one of arrogant priggishness. At the risk of being banned for flaming.......sod off.

[Barryz]

You can see the problem here. I'm an impartial outsider trying to wade through the subjective bias and misinformation in this thread and yet get told to 'sod off'.

It's no wonder there are so few prepared to defend the BPH and praise the excellent treatment received at a very reasonable cost. They'd be howled down, ridiculed and insulted. It seems to me that the majority of posters in this thread represent a tiny minority of past BPH patients who for some reason are very disgruntled, perhaps for justified reasons and sometimes perhaps not.

[suiging]

All the media techniques rolled into one post. Broadening, mock objectivity, hidden message. BPH really offers "excellent treatment received at a very reasonable cost".

Who are you ?

[Barryz]

There is absolutely not a shadow of doubt in my mind that BarryZ is enjoying immensely his brief moment of fame, and is sitting at his PC, licking his lips, awaiting the next outraged poster to fall into his 'trollish' trap.

He smart enough not to flame, and as such will permitted to go on with his highly provocative posts indefinitely, - so you will never win.

He is having the time of his life, and he will never stop until you guys stop.

It is such a shame, as this is a serious thread with serious issues to air, and IMHO. this person has totally ruined it and made a mockery of a sensible debate and is sticking his fingers up at all the good things that Thai Visa stands for.

As I said on the 'sister thread' on BHP the other day...BarryZ, SHAME ON YOU, and on all your unfeeling and uncaring acolytes.

I hope you can live with yourself.

It's a good job I don't take some of you guys seriously!

I'm all in favour of serious issues like this being given a good airing, but you guys down in Pattaya are not being very successful, it seems, at getting to the truth of the matter. In such a small, close-knit community I would have thought there would be someone on this forum who had a wife with a friend who knows the cousin of another friend who knows the brother of a nurse who works in the blood bank of the BPH.

I've always agreed there's a question mark over the blood supplies issue. I've been hoping that a further statement from the hospital might clarify this issue. I'm hanging in here in the hope there can be some resolution.

Don't know how you got the impression I'm unfeeling and uncaring about the death of someone who might have been saved if different decisions had been made. Are we on the same planet?

[think_too_mut]

With current visa rules, most of farangs in Pattaya will be dead in 15-20 years.

The new wing that BPH has built is just to scoop health insurance remitances.

They probably believe it can be done in 5 years.

[Barryz]

All the media techniques rolled into one post. Broadening, mock objectivity, hidden message. BPH really offers "excellent treatment received at a very reasonable cost".

Who are you ?

Barry is actually my name and appears on my birth certificate. I'm not a media expert but I haved worked in the Public Service (Civil Service to you British).

[Mobi]

A troll by any other name will smell as bad......

Forget it, he'll never stop - he's addicted to the limelight.

[tatt2dude]

You can see the problem here. I'm an impartial outsider trying to wade through the subjective bias and misinformation in this thread and yet get told to 'sod off'.

It's no wonder there are so few prepared to defend the BPH and praise the excellent treatment received at a very reasonable cost. They'd be howled down, ridiculed and insulted. It seems to me that the majority of posters in this thread represent a tiny minority of past BPH patients who for some reason are very disgruntled, perhaps for justified reasons and sometimes perhaps not.

OK.

I have never had any dealings with BPH. Despite my involvement in this I did not comment on the hospital in question, in fact one other poster to this site went so far to accuse me of being too intimidated to do so. The truth of the matter is that I did not have facts to hand so did not feel qualified to comment.

After reading the BPH statement I will not comment.

With this in mind I find your statement "It's no wonder there are so few prepared to defend the BPH and praise the excellent treatment received at a very reasonable cost" quite remarkable given your 43 year absence from Thailand, you must have made quite an impression when here, for someone to keep you up to speed with current satisfaction levels at this hospital.

It's been asked previously but I will ask you again who are you?

[onzestan]

It's been asked previously but I will ask you again who are you?

I don't know who he is, but I think I know what he thinks he is.

He thinks that he's the knight in shining armor.

Or he's the public relation manager of the BPH, or hopes to become that.

Hopeless

onzestan

[onzestan]

A troll by any other name will smell as bad......

Forget it, he'll never stop - he's addicted to the limelight.

OK Mobi, sorry I hadn't read you a.m. post.

I will shut up on this topic and hope everybody else does too.

cheers

onzestan

[Barryz]

A troll by any other name will smell as bad......

Forget it, he'll never stop - he's addicted to the limelight.

That's an amusing comment from someone who's been a member of this forum for only 16 months yet has almost 3,000 posts.

As a member for 5 months with only 100 posts I'm way behind you on the limelight-seeking front. Have you got any relevant comments?

[Mobi]

Have you got any relevant comments?

yes - everything you say from now on is ignored. You'll probably end up writing to yourself.

[Barryz]

With this in mind I find your statement "It's no wonder there are so few prepared to defend the BPH and praise the excellent treatment received at a very reasonable cost" quite remarkable given your 43 year absence from Thailand, you must have made quite an impression when here, for someone to keep you up to speed with current satisfaction levels at this hospital.

It's been asked previously but I will ask you again who are you?

I think most reasonable people would appreciate that no hospital can survive if it has no satisfied customers, even though most of them might be transient tourists. The insurance companies would complain for a start if they thought they were paying excessive bills for a treatment that wasn't successful and which required further attention and expense when the tourist got back home.

Of course I have no information on the actual numbers of satisfied clients of the BPH. I merely make the observation that whoever they are, they are:

(1) Unlikely to be reading this thread.

(2) Unlikely to go out of their way or take the time and trouble to express their satisfaction with BPH service. People who have a grievance tend to shout louder.

If such people do or have come across this thread, I can understand their reluctance to express a counter-balancing good story about BPH in case they are lynched too.

[Mobi]

With this in mind I find your statement "It's no wonder there are so few prepared to defend the BPH and praise the excellent treatment received at a very reasonable cost" quite remarkable given your 43 year absence from Thailand, you must have made quite an impression when here, for someone to keep you up to speed with current satisfaction levels at this hospital.

It's been asked previously but I will ask you again who are you?

I think most reasonable people would appreciate that no hospital can survive if it has no satisfied customers, even though most of them might be transient tourists. The insurance companies would complain for a start if they thought they were paying excessive bills for a treatment that wasn't successful and which required further attention and expense when the tourist got back home.

Of course I have no information on the actual numbers of satisfied clients of the BPH. I merely make the observation that whoever they are, they are:

(1) Unlikely to be reading this thread.

(2) Unlikely to go out of their way or take the time and trouble to express their satisfaction with BPH service. People who have a grievance tend to shout louder.

If such people do or have come across this thread, I can understand their reluctance to express a counter-balancing good story about BPH in case they are lynched too.

Ignored

[tatt2dude]

I think most reasonable people would appreciate that no hospital can survive if it has no satisfied customers, even though most of them might be transient tourists. The insurance companies would complain for a start if they thought they were paying excessive bills for a treatment that wasn't successful and which required further attention and expense when the tourist got back home.

I am a reasonable person who is fit and in no need of hospital care, prior to this thread and Matt's accident I had no knowledge of BPH and whilst I agree to take much of what I read on the internet with a healthy pinch of salt I am somewhat concerned by the BPH statement. Would I now give business to BPH? Not until such time that they re-assure me. Prior to these events? Why not, their marketing campaigns are very persuasive.

Of course I have no information on the actual numbers of satisfied clients of the BPH. I merely make the observation that whoever they are, they are:

(1) Unlikely to be reading this thread.

(2) Unlikely to go out of their way or take the time and trouble to express their satisfaction with BPH service. People who have a grievance tend to shout louder.

Some truth in what you say, but given how damning this thread is to the hospital one would have thought that someone would have defended them! I mean this is a forum where you can hide behind an id so how bad can the lynching really be? There must be someone with a good experience?

If such people do or have come across this thread, I can understand their reluctance to express a counter-balancing good story about BPH in case they are lynched too.

Step forward and assist Barry, he is carrying on a very difficult one man crusade given he has never visited the place received treatment or for that matter set foot in Thailand in the last 43 years.

Someone already said it:

"All the media techniques rolled into one post. Broadening, mock objectivity, hidden message."

What exactly is your agenda?

[onzestan]

A troll by any other name will smell as bad......

Forget it, he'll never stop - he's addicted to the limelight.

That's an amusing comment from someone who's been a member of this forum for only 16 months yet has almost 3,000 posts.

As a member for 5 months with only 100 posts I'm way behind you on the limelight-seeking front. Have you got any relevant comments?

Ignored by onzestan. Not relevant to this topic.