Bangkok Pattaya Hospital..Where is the Care?...

[Tammi]

I personally think that the low esteem many have of the BP Hospital due to their high charges has spilled over into people's willingness to crucify them from the get go.

It is unequivical that Money is paramount for the BP and my personal experience for tests was not good as the lung function machine didn't work very well and the cost had additional items and 2 seperate Doctors fees that made the total some 15% to 20% more expensive than the total I had been given as a final figure, before I agreed to the tests and whole procedure. I have never been back and now go to the Memorial Hospital.

So, BP Hospital has many detractors whose views are coloured before a comment is even formulated imho. That may have given the BP Hospital an unfair disadvantage in the instance.

The BP Hospital should however note the depth of feeling about high costs and hidden or undisclosed additions made to bills.

There are no hidden or undisclosed additions - ask for a detailed list that shows every item down to the cotton wool balls. You should not pay the first bill plonked in front of you. If the detailed list is long go sit down and study it, marking those items you have a query about. I have had extra items added to bills at BHP and at Bumrungrad. If you are staying in hospital for several days you can ask, each day, for the detailed bill for the day before. I realise this is difficult for a non-medical person or patient to do and quite impossible for any person or patient to do with regard to the operating room costs.

Also, at BHP, I find that the pharmacists do not tell one about side effects of the drugs they are giving you. If I am feeling up to it I ask and they go get the book. Also, at BPH, I have been handed packets of drugs that the doctor did not discuss with me and because I was feeling poorly have just paid the bill and gone home.

These are very difficult situations for a non-medical person and made worse by grumpy cashiers (at BHP) and for those of us who do not have medical insurance.

[wilko]

Was he wearing a crash helmet?

Yes

Then why was it taken off while he was lying on the road? Looks like some be severely reprimanded

Edited May 17, 2007 by wilko

[patsfangr]

Was he wearing a crash helmet?

Yes

Then why was it taken off while he was lying on the road? Looks like some be severely reprimanded

I don't think the helmet question is relevant to this thread, Wilko. I'm on a constant rant to my wife and friends about the poor enforcement of the helmet law here, not to mention the "toy hats" that are allowed to pass as "helmets". However, the discussion here focusses on the treatment given (or not given) to Matt after the injuries occurred. The helmet question would best be addressed elsewhere, IMO.

As to the treatment issue, the very valid and serious questions remain, and should be answered. The victim and his family deserve that. I'm not holding up a card showing either "GUILTY" or "INNOCENT" on it just yet. I continue to believe that no mal-practice, or irresponsible, economically motivated decision process have been proven against BPH; nor have they been cleared of such accusations in this case.

The higher costs charged there are unquestionable. I stopped buying my prescribed medications there long ago. I take my prescriptions to Fascino, which is at least 50% cheaper, and sometimes less. However, I continue to have confidence in the doctors I have seen at BPH, and the care provided in both the ER and in-patient facilities. Every bill has been presented in full detail, and the estimates given me prior to procedures have proven accurate.

[ErikD]

I think it is best to focus on the available information, the contradictions in the hospital's statements, the hospital's admitted policy and the consequences for all of us resulting from such conduct.

Pointless gossip about Thailand, firebrigades, other hospitals etc. are indeed an attempt to hijack the discussion here, be it for reasons of personal ego issues or being professionally or otherwise attached to that hospital. This matter is just too important to allow obstructionists to win. Our own health is at stake and that of those we love.

So far, the hospital does not meet the minimum expectations about transparency but shockingly admitted that we better register with them in order to avoid facing the same fate like the last victim. What else do we need to know about that place?

Well said Farangfool, I agree that we should stick to the point of this discussion and the serious question of why Matt Hayes died in the back of an ambulance being transferred from BHP to another hospital? Could this have been avoided? Would the same thing happen again in the same circumstances?

The statments from BHP are inadequate to say the least.

It is fine to say register with them to make things easier but what about all the tourists and visitors to Pattaya? It is alright to preach about carrying ID, insurance cards, hospital cards etc. etc (expat club included) to people living in Pattaya but what about the large majority of farangs visiting Pattaya? Most of them in beach wear or shorts they will not be carrying these things with them and I am sure totally unaware of the situation regarding emergency services in Pattaya and the conduct of BPH.

[wilko]

Yes, the point I'm making is that care starts at the scene of the accident and there is a vital 15 minutes that can mean life or death. Being handled by scantly trained rescue men on the scene is likely to be more deadly than any treament or lack thereof received in the hospital.

[ErikD]

Yes, the point I'm making is that care starts at the scene of the accident and there is a vital 15 minutes that can mean life or death. Being handled by scantly trained rescue men on the scene is likely to be more deadly than any treament or lack thereof received in the hospital.

I know this thread is long now but most of this has already been covered; in Matt's case he was wearing a helmet and according to the witness on the scene of the accident (tatt2dude who has given a very clear account of what he saw) and who has some basic first aid skills and did what he could for Matt. Matt left the scene of the accident conscious and coherent on his way to the BHP in an emergency rescue vehicle where he should have had the best of care as the guy who helped Matt thought. Although Matt's injuries were serious and nothing is going to change what happened to him the whole point of this topic is getting some answers for his family and friends to many of the questions that have been raised by this incident and can we change things for future victims so this situation does not arise again.

We will never know if Matt had not been moved if he would have lived but his family deserve to know the truth about his death and if enough pressure is brought to bear on BHP maybe it will improve things for others.

[ErikD]

The higher costs charged there are unquestionable. I stopped buying my prescribed medications there long ago. I take my prescriptions to Fascino, which is at least 50% cheaper, and sometimes less. However, I continue to have confidence in the doctors I have seen at BPH, and the care provided in both the ER and in-patient facilities. Every bill has been presented in full detail, and the estimates given me prior to procedures have proven accurate.

A new topic has been started for all the people who have stories about other issues at BHP all of which I think are valid and worth discussing.

The new topic as suggested by someone previously in this thread is called 'Bangkok Hospital Pattaya watch' and is a follow on from Matt's story for all the people who want to tell their stories about this hospital (good or bad) and for further comments about BHP that are not relevant to Matt's case.

[wilko]

Yes having re-read it is somewhat off topic...however I think it does no harm to be aware that care does not start on arrival at hospital it si well before then and the almost complete lack of an ambulance service appears to be of no concern to any of the hospitals around here.

Edited May 17, 2007 by wilko

[barryofthailand]

The fact is that most important facts are missing, and until known we will not get factual answers.

First, What was Matt's blood type. Why did Matt not have I.D. on his person? How long was he at BHP? Was Matt registered at this hospital?

To recieve proper emergency care, you must be registered with info in the computer on what should be done, who should be contacted in case of an Emergency.

This is also something that we all should be thinking about, as any one of us can easily end up in the same situation.

Barry

[ErikD]

The fact is that most important facts are missing, and until known we will not get factual answers.

First, What was Matt's blood type. Why did Matt not have I.D. on his person? How long was he at BHP? Was Matt registered at this hospital?

To recieve proper emergency care, you must be registered with info in the computer on what should be done, who should be contacted in case of an Emergency.

This is also something that we all should be thinking about, as any one of us can easily end up in the same situation.

Barry

What I can tell you (so I have been told) is unfortunately Matt's wallet was found in his apartment so it seems he did not have it on him for some reason (perhaps he just forgot to pick it up on his way out) but he did have his mobile phone on him at the time of the accident and anyone could have re-dialed any of the last numbers on his phone and one of his many friends would have picked up - none of them were contacted.

I do not believe you need to be registered with the hospital before you receive emergency care and the hospital have confirmed this in their statements and this should not be the case as most tourists and visitors to Pattaya would not think about registering with the hospital, it is the last thing most people think about whilst they are on holiday.

It could happen to anyone of us or our families and that is why I think it is so important to continue to ask the questions and put pressure on BHP for answers as this is the hospital where nearly all accident and emergency patients are taken in Pattaya (especially farangs).

It is now clear that some emergency treatment was given at BHP to Matt and his condition was serious but I think your questions are very relevant;-

How long was he at BHP?

Who made the decision to move him and why?

What blood type was Matt? was it rare or unusual?

Why did BHP not have a sufficient blood supply to treat him?

Why could the blood not have been brought to the hospital instead of moving a critically injured patient?

[farangfool]

To lesson everyone has to learn in pattaya is:

1) BHP pays the ambulances for injured farangs.

2) This establishes their monopoly in the health care market for emergencies

3) They might treat you or refuse you.

4) You might very easily die because of that.

5) The hospital has a comprehensive coverup operation to hide its conduct.

6) No justice, the patient is not much more than cattle.

The other factors just add to this basic truth.

[JimmyTheMook]

I am not the only one on this forum who has felt ripped off by this place , this poor guy really had it worse.

Where is the care?

Editor:

On Saturday, April 28, 2007 my friend and former colleague 32 year-old Matt Gerald Hayes was struck by a truck as he rode his motorcycle in South Pattaya-a case of hit and run. Volunteer ambulance workers arrived on the scene quickly and took Matt to a well known, state-of-the-arts hospital in North Pattaya on Sukumvit Road. Upon arrival at this well advertised hospital Matt was denied treatment because it could not be ascertained that he would be able to pay his hospital bill! (he could) The volunteer ambulance men were told by staff at the hospital to take Matt to Chonburi-an hour away. On route, Matt died.

He will be greatly missed by his friends, fellow teachers, family and the children he taught at BEST school. There are two questions that plague me; 1.Why was Matt denied proper treatment that could have saved his young life at this “renowned” hospital? 2. Where does the Hippocratic Oath come into play with this distinguished medical establishment?

If this is how legally employed foreigners are being treated by this hospital, then this hospital’s services should be boycotted.

Answers to the questions and comments are awaited.

Yours truly,

Steve Kessler

source : pattayamail.com

[tropo]

I haven't used the place yet, thanks to so many negative reports I've come across on this forum, although I can say that my experiences at PIH haven't been too good either.

[Pattayaman]

I am not the only one on this forum who has felt ripped off by this place , this poor guy really had it worse.

Where is the care?

Editor:

On Saturday, April 28, 2007 my friend and former colleague 32 year-old Matt Gerald Hayes was struck by a truck as he rode his motorcycle in South Pattaya-a case of hit and run. Volunteer ambulance workers arrived on the scene quickly and took Matt to a well known, state-of-the-arts hospital in North Pattaya on Sukumvit Road. Upon arrival at this well advertised hospital Matt was denied treatment because it could not be ascertained that he would be able to pay his hospital bill! (he could) The volunteer ambulance men were told by staff at the hospital to take Matt to Chonburi-an hour away. On route, Matt died.

He will be greatly missed by his friends, fellow teachers, family and the children he taught at BEST school. There are two questions that plague me; 1.Why was Matt denied proper treatment that could have saved his young life at this “renowned” hospital? 2. Where does the Hippocratic Oath come into play with this distinguished medical establishment?

If this is how legally employed foreigners are being treated by this hospital, then this hospital’s services should be boycotted.

Answers to the questions and comments are awaited.

Yours truly,

Steve Kessler

Sadly this is not the first case of this kind i have heard of at this hospital,as for ethics it seems there are little after all this is

Thailand and only money talks. My thoughts are with your friends family .

source : pattayamail.com

[Phil Conners]

So.... when is the demonstration in front of BP?

[libya 115]

There are many bad reports on this forum regarding the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital. They are rip-off merchants and the Doctors are low standard. They run tests which are not needed and insist on a nights stay for minor ailments. The minute you go through the door they attach you to a drip.

Two True Horror Stories

1. A friend of mine was admitted; symptoms of generally unwell with swollen lower limbs and water retension. After three days of tests, they told him he had luekemia and liver failure and would soon die, then discharged him witha bag of pills and a bill for several thousand baht.

Result: Following a second opinion at a local doctors surgery, he was told it was just a simple kidney fluid imbalance. Still fit and healthy five years later.

2. A friend of mine collapsed following a serious drinking session and ended up admitted to the Bangkok Pattaya hospital. The following day, having sobered up and slept it off in a hospital bed was presented with a bill for 65,000 baht.

[jackmuu]

Sad story but a similar thing happened to a Thai friends mother a few years ago in Bangkok. She had been hit by a bike near Jatujak market and wearing the usual scruffy Thai attire for a market outing was deemed not to have enough money for decent care. She too died, and was a quite well off woman.

Love some things in this country, others disgust me.

[keebone]

Did you know that Nurses including those in the ICU and CCU wards at the BPH as part of their shift rota have to work 7am - 11pm and then 7am - 7pm the following day. They are usually not allowed to leave until 11.30pm so by the time they get home and do whatever chores need doing like putting their uniform in the washing machine etc its about 1am and then up at about 5.30am to get ready for a 12 hour shift.

Will make you feel secure if your life is hanging by a thread that those in charge of keeping you alive have only had a few hours sleep !

[JimmyTheMook]

So.... when is the demonstration in front of BP?

It does not have to be a Hollywood production with Jack Nicholson, just let the locals know to avoid this place.

Seems the word is slowing getting out.

[suiging]

Did you know that Nurses including those in the ICU and CCU wards at the BPH as part of their shift rota have to work 7am - 11pm and then 7am - 7pm the following day. They are usually not allowed to leave until 11.30pm so by the time they get home and do whatever chores need doing like putting their uniform in the washing machine etc its about 1am and then up at about 5.30am to get ready for a 12 hour shift.

Will make you feel secure if your life is hanging by a thread that those in charge of keeping you alive have only had a few hours sleep !

This is certainly true. My mother was an ex-nurse and she could not believe the hours the girls were expected to work. Nothing but praise for them in every other department, how they kept on their feet, I will never know.

[raro]

A couple of years ago, I was witness of an accident in which a motorcyclist was badly injured. We brought him to BPH and he was refused treatment unless we can cough up 10,000 Baht. The guy was actually lying in the emergency care area on a stretcher, bleeding from nose and ears.

I demanded to see a Manager as at that point I still thought it is the receptionist's malconception and not hospital policy, but they remained firm on demanding cash in advance.

After we all scratched the cash together (they have an ATM for your convenience...) the accident victim enjoyed a basic treatment and has been transferred with one of BPH's emergency vans to Memorial Hospital were he died the next morning.

I still remember very well the nurse carrying an EKG to the van with the cables dangling over the floor...

I have told this story hundreds of times to anybody who mentioned medical care in Thailand, hoping to turn away as many people as possible from this institution.

[libya 115]

A couple of years ago, I was witness of an accident in which a motorcyclist was badly injured. We brought him to BPH and he was refused treatment unless we can cough up 10,000 Baht. The guy was actually lying in the emergency care area on a stretcher, bleeding from nose and ears.

I demanded to see a Manager as at that point I still thought it is the receptionist's malconception and not hospital policy, but they remained firm on demanding cash in advance.

After we all scratched the cash together (they have an ATM for your convenience...) the accident victim enjoyed a basic treatment and has been transferred with one of BPH's emergency vans to Memorial Hospital were he died the next morning.

I still remember very well the nurse carrying an EKG to the van with the cables dangling over the floor...

I have told this story hundreds of times to anybody who mentioned medical care in Thailand, hoping to turn away as many people as possible from this institution.

What is needed is a wave of publicity via websites, letters to newspapers, paper flyers, etc. to highlight the dreadful and greedy institution that is: The Bangkok Pattaya Hospital.

The Management are scum and they will receive their just deserts someday. I am sure of that. They cruise in their Mercedes and treat their fellow man with contempt.

Shame on all staff who choose to work there. Doctors from the west particularly.

[JimmyTheMook]

CNN link:

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[thai_narak]

Let's BOYCOTT BangkokPattaya Hospital!!!

I've heard long time ago that ThaKsin is a major shareholder in this hospital so the 30 Baht program for goverment hospital was to separate the poor and the rich. If you do not have money, you die in the goverment hospital...

That's just what I've from Thai friends. Please do not bombard me with comments.

Edited May 23, 2007 by thai_narak

[Mobi]

I have suggested on the other Bangkok Hospital thread that it is merged with this thread.

I know this thread started out as a report on the terrible death of Mat, but I now I believe it will be a testament to his memory if we can now keep it going as a reporting point for all that is bad and ugly at that hospital - and who knows maybe one day be influential in getting some change in attitude and policy.

[Mobi]

Here's a couple.

1.

I farang guy I know is in the early stages of altzheimers disease. One day he had a minor 'memory loss' at home, and his Thai girl friend rushed him To BP - not knowing what what wrong with him. He was insured, and was kept in hospital, under observation, for 2 weeks, without doing any serious tests, except keeping him mildly sedated, and charging his insurers 30,000 baht a day for the privilege. Throughout his stay there his girl friend looked after his every need, fed him (from outside caterers), slept by his side, and there was no special care from the hospital staff, nor were any special tests undertaken, I guess they decided 30K per day was quite enough, without risking his sojourn there by actually diagnosing what what wrong with him.

Eventually, his son flew in from Europe, and told the doctors he had Altzheimers and had him discharged.

2.

My wife woke up one day and discovered a very large lump in her breast.

I rushed her into BP and had them do a mammogram.

When the mammogram was finished, she was sent to see a specialist. I should say at this point that, unusually for her, she was dressed quite roughly, as I had rushed her in and refused to give her a chance to put on decent clothes. The specialist didn't know a farang was with her, gave her a good look up and down, and said: yes there is a growth, but he wouldn't worry too much about it and suggested that she came back in 12 months to see if it had got any bigger!!

I took her to see a top specialist in Bumrungrad, who immediately booked her in for surgery. Fortunately the tumour was benign, but there was no way of knowing until it had been removed and examined.

My wife is not stupid, and she is totally convinced that the specialist in Pattaya had decided she couldn't afford the surgery. He spoke 'down' to her quite roughly and just got rid of her.

More later.....

[thai_narak]

My sister in-law was admitted for 2 days a few months back in BPH and when my wife got the bill it was 20K. My wife then asked the admin for such a high rocketed price and they just replied that it is because she (sister in-law) was admitted in the new wing (new building) and that the charge per day is higher than that of the old wing. I think this reason of the sudden price increase is BS! I told my wife that next time if it is not so urgent it is better to drive to bangkok (Ramkhamheng, Samitevej, Bumrungrad, and others) than to go to BPH.

[Tammi]

My sister in-law was admitted for 2 days a few months back in BPH and when my wife got the bill it was 20K. My wife then asked the admin for such a high rocketed price and they just replied that it is because she (sister in-law) was admitted in the new wing (new building) and that the charge per day is higher than that of the old wing. I think this reason of the sudden price increase is BS! I told my wife that next time if it is not so urgent it is better to drive to bangkok (Ramkhamheng, Samitevej, Bumrungrad, and others) than to go to BPH.

This is also one of my bitches with BHP - they do not explain the different room rates.

In August last year I was in for one night with food poisoning and total was 24,534.50 . Standard inpatient food was 1,300!!!!!!! For comparable room at Bumrungrad food is 430!! And if I had known I would have taken a shared room for a lot less than the 4,100 BHP charged for a single.

[thai_narak]

My sister in-law was admitted for 2 days a few months back in BPH and when my wife got the bill it was 20K. My wife then asked the admin for such a high rocketed price and they just replied that it is because she (sister in-law) was admitted in the new wing (new building) and that the charge per day is higher than that of the old wing. I think this reason of the sudden price increase is BS! I told my wife that next time if it is not so urgent it is better to drive to bangkok (Ramkhamheng, Samitevej, Bumrungrad, and others) than to go to BPH.

This is also one of my bitches with BHP - they do not explain the different room rates.

In August last year I was in for one night with food poisoning and total was 24,534.50 . Standard inpatient food was 1,300!!!!!!! For comparable room at Bumrungrad food is 430!! And if I had known I would have taken a shared room for a lot less than the 4,100 BHP charged for a single.

note: when I said 2 days what I meant was 1 night which less than 48 hours stay...

we should really boycott this hostpital...

[libya 115]

This news story demonstates the bare faced audacity with which the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital treats the public with total contempt.

They turn away a farang who is at deaths door and sentenced him to death by sending him away, yet they can afford to spend 5 million Baht on advertising umbrellas for the Pattaya beaches.

If I see one I shall pick it up, walk to the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital and insert it up the rectum of the first Doctor I encounter. I suggest that everyone follow suit!

Libya 115

SOURCE: Pattaya People: May 24th 2007

BHP gave out Beach Umbrellas worth 5 Million Baht

The administrators from Bangkok Hospital Pattaya headed by Doctor Phirat Praditwanich, Director of BHP went to City Hall in the afternoon of 23rd May and were welcomed by Mayor Niran Wattanasartsatorn.

Starting from May 2007 the Bangkok Hospital Pattaya has organized a project to help improve and beautify the beaches of Pattaya.

All together 8,200 colourful beach umbrellas were raised and will continuously be given to City Hall to place along the beach until July 2007. All this is worth over 5 Million Baht.