Ok, This Might Be A Slightly Odd One Out...

[Jank4444]

Hello,

I'm living in the UK, ILR, but are from the Germany (EU citizen).

I've met my girlfriend who is from Thailand, and we are intensively engaged and emotionally committed to each other and have been for 3 months now. I have visited her and her family twice already. We have talked about having a Thai wedding (as a religous notion) in November.

Now..... we would like to arrange so that she and her mother could come and visit me the UK "freely". What is the best way to go about it? Should we go through these "Authorised immigration advisers" chargin £250 to apply for non-settlement visa, or is there any other better means to apply? Like through EEA Family permit for civil partnership, and if so how would we get to that point of her coming to UK for civil partnership? I might also consider relocating to Thailand.

Now.... secondly... would there be any further problems because in her Thai passport she's not a she...?

Thanks for any advice,

K

[the scouser]

Jank,

I'd recommend going down the European route. However, your girlfriend can't benefit from any of the EEA rights until she is considered to be your family member, and she will only be considered so when you have formalised your relationship.

So, your girlfriend should apply for a visit visa which will allow you to "marry" in the U.K. and, once done, she can then apply to the Borders and Immigration Agency for a residence card as your family member. The possible hitch is that a condition of getting a visit visa for the UK is that the applicant needs to demonstrate that they intend to leave the country at the end of the visit, which will evidently not be the case with your girlfriend.

Consequently, your girlfriend might consider applying for a "fiancée" visa which, again, would enable her to "marry" in the U.K. but, this time she would not be expected to leave the UK once "married", so should stand a better chance of getting the visa. Once hitched, she could then apply to the BIA for her residence card.

Should you go down the European law route, once you and your girlfriend are married, not only would she be considered to be your family member, but her mother, too. Her mother should therefore qualify for a free family permit/residence card, also.

Lastly, as your girlfriend, at birth, was male, you would have to undergo a civil partnership, rather than a marriage.

Scouse.

[Jank4444]

I'd recommend going down the European route. However, your girlfriend can't benefit from any of the EEA rights until she is considered to be your family member, and she will only be considered so when you have formalised your relationship.

Consequently, your girlfriend might consider applying for a "fiancée" visa which, again, would enable her to "marry" in the U.K. but, this time she would not be expected to leave the UK once "married", so should stand a better chance of getting the visa. Once hitched, she could then apply to the BIA for her residence card.

Thanks,

I assume "fiancee" (civil partnership fiancee) visa will be applicable in this particular case also then. In that case this seems to be the best way forward. On the downside, I guess the fiancee visa is more expensive to apply for, rather than a visit visa.

Thanks again,

K

[the scouser]

The visa to allow the forming of a civil partnership leading to settlement is £500.00, but the subsequent application for a residence card is free, as will be the mother's.

Scouse.

[Mahout Angrit]

Now..... we would like to arrange so that she and her mother could come and visit me the UK "freely". What is the best way to go about it?

What do you mean by this statement? Do you wish for your g/f and her mother to be able to live in Thailand and whenever they feel like it be able to visit you in UK without having to apply for visas etc or do you want them to settle permanantly in UK? There is a difference.

A Fiancee visa will lead to settlement and although she can leave the UK she would be expected to spend the larger part of the time settled and having her main home living in UK.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Mahout Angrit

[the scouser]

A Fiancee visa will lead to settlement and although she can leave the UK she would be expected to spend the larger part of the time settled and having her main home living in UK.

This matter is different from the norm in that having contracted the civil partnership, the girlfriend can apply for a residence permit as the civil partner of an EEA national. She can then come and go as she wishes and does not need to demonstrate that she is largely living in the UK. Parents can also benefit from the same provisions.

Scouse.

[Mahout Angrit]

This matter is different from the norm in that having contracted the civil partnership, the girlfriend can apply for a residence permit as the civil partner of an EEA national. She can then come and go as she wishes and does not need to demonstrate that she is largely living in the UK. Parents can also benefit from the same provisions.

So the Fiancee visa you suggest and the OP mentions is not a UK Fiancee visa but a Fiancee visa applied for at a EU embassy (in this case Germany)?

[paully]

I think Scouse is referring to this (from the uk visas website):

"Can my family join me in the UK?

Yes. If you have the right to live in the UK your family can join you.

Under European Community law, your family includes:

your husband, wife or civil partner

your husband's, wife's or civil partner’s children or grandchildren (if they are under 21 years of age or if they are over 21 and are dependent on you), and

dependent relatives, for example your husband's, wife's or civil partner’s parents or grandparents.

If you are a student, only your husband, wife or civil partner and your dependent children can join you. This is limited to a period of three months unless you are the child of the EEA national, their spouse or their civil partner, or the EEA student is exercising Treaty Rights in another capacity, for example, they are also working or are self sufficient.

An unmarried partner can apply for an EEA family permit, but not as a family member. You would need to meet the relevant requirements of the Immigration Rules for Unmarried Partners. You do not have a right to join the EEA national in the UK like a family member, but your application can be considered. For advice on visas for unmarried partners, see our Husbands, wives and partners (INF 4) guidance. "

So there you go, Jank. Rather easier for you as an EU (EEA) citizen in the UK than for us as UK citizens in the UK!

Edited May 23, 2007 by paully

[the scouser]

Jank is a citizen of an EEA country and, as such, his civil partner can join him in the UK under the provision of European law, rather than the immigration rules. However, his partner is not considered to be his dependant for the purposes of European law until they have formed their civil partnership. Thailand does not recognise civil partnerships, so such a union will have to be formed, for example, in the U.K. Consequently, Jank's partner will have to enter the U.K. under the provisions of the immigration rules as a "fiancée". Once the civil partnership is contracted, his partner will then be a dependant of an EEA national and can apply free of charge to the BIA for a residence card under the provisions of European law.

Scouse.

[paully]

So get that civil partnership going once she arrives, Jank!

Edited May 23, 2007 by paully

[Jank4444]

So get that civil partnership going once she arrives, Jank!

Yes, it seems to be the best option. Thanks for the good insight from scouser and all the contributors here, so will do.

I agree about the point that it's slightly strange that UK citizens have a set of other types of restrictions in visa/spouse/partner issues from being an EU citizen living and working in the UK. However, we still have the not resort to Public Funds until the ILR permit, and we have to go through Home Office applications to receive full UK status if we so wish (after 6 years - 5 years settlement and 1 year with ILR). Another dilemma being EU citizen is that the application forms, and the regulations seem to change if ever so slightly every 2 - 3 years.

Cheers,

K

[the scouser]

Also, it is a more painful path for a German to take his/her Thai spouse to Germany, than it is for a Brit who lives in Germany.

Scouse.

[erikr_]

Also, it is a more painful path for a German to take his/her Thai spouse to Germany, than it is for a Brit who lives in Germany.

Scouse.

Be aware that with the short courtship the embassy might regard this as a partnership of convenience (similar to the marriage of convenience) and in the determination for this the BE in Bangkok at least does not follow the IDI and European casework instructions (seeing from some cases in the past) as the embassy still seems not to comprehend the essence of this regulation.

So make sure you prepare your gf