Cow Business : Advise Needed.

[Tilapia]

Dear all, (especially cow experts).

It will take me 3 years before the fish-farm is completed, so I was thinking about using one building for cows (feed the skinny up and sell them). We have appox 50 rai with ponds, and there is lots of grass there ( the locals come and collect it every day) plus that we have bi-products from our feed-mill, after the raw material have been through the hammer-mill, there is soya-bean, casava, broken-rice, corn, rice-polish (ram), fishmeal.

Can any of the above mention, be used in the diet for cows ?

The building has concrete floor, so what is the best material to use for covering that. ?

All advise is welcome.

Regards.

Tilapia.

[Maizefarmer]

Here's a possible way forward:

Use one building to house the cattle at night - smooth concreate floors are bad news for housed cattle, they should be corrugated or scoured so throw down about 1/2" of cement screed. Cover with loads of chopped grass and change every 3 - 5 days (about 3 in summer, about 5 in winter), or when it starts getting musty and smelling of ammonia (whichever comes first). Compost all this waste for about 6 - 8 weeks, then spread it out over areas of the grass that have been grazed down.

Let them roam free outside during the day - so long as you can offer green grass and hay for roughage (you have lots of water - get a few 1/2" - 1" sprinklers).

Make sure there is shade avaliable and loads of fresh clean water.

The mill by products you have will be a great diet additive - do some reading up on fresh grass/hay/feedmill byproduct - you should be able to make up a fairly decent mix from that lot (espeically with the fishmeal you have - best protien source you can get in thailand for cattle - so use it all).

Do some calculations i.e. work out how much by products you can produce each week, and what they add up to diet wise, and divide it up to see how many head it will support - in other words, don't get more animals than you can support with what you have, otherwise you'll quickly find the economics go out out the window.

Planing is going to be the crux to how well this works (3 years ain't much time - but it can be done, if your feed costs are controlleable - which they are in this case).

Work with 2 or 3 groups of cattle - I don't know how much mill by product you produce (hence the need to calculate that all out very carefully to determine how many head in each group you can support). In anyevent, split the groups age wise by 3, 6 and 9 months (multiples that fit into 36 months and which will give an overlap of 3 - 6 months so that you can sustain forage & mill by product usage at an even rate while maintaining a regular cash flow). Plan it out so that you wind down towards the end with a group of 3 month old live stock left i.e. so that the last bunch of cattle sold are ones that you purchased in 24 months time are aged around 3 months when you purchase them - that will give you the time you need towards the end to make the swop over back to the fish project.

Avoid males. "Off Whites" - high Brahman mix would be a good choice (there are other options to consider as well): hardy & easy to keep.

Forget about milking - stick to meat.

Don't try and breed - 3 years ain't enough time to go down that route, purchase all stock.

Above all - keep it simple & keep it practical, it's only a 3 year project.

This only mean't to be a rough outline and starting point to work from.

MF

[Tilapia]

Hi MF.

I knew I could count on you, thanks a lot.

We have all the fresh water avalible, and feed source will not be a problem, but I think that I have to make a fence, conected to the house, then they can walk in and out as they please. Our land is 4 different plots, so I will need to cut grass and bring to the cattle every day (no problem, will keep our staff busy). If this can make a profit, I will continiu to do it, because our bi-product will always be there, and when we run full scale I need 120ton of fish pellets per month, so there should be plenty for the cattle as well.

One more question, in the future I would need to build a "housing" for the cattle, if we talking night-time only and for shade, how much room does the cattle need ?? let say 20 heads ??

Regards

Tilapia.

[chownah]

Tilapia,

The things you refer to as by-products (soya-bean, casava, broken-rice, corn, rice-polish (ram), fishmeal).....are these the things you buy to feed the fish or are they the leftover scraps of things that you can not feed to the fish. This makes a big difference in the economics.

Chownah

Maizefarmer,

Does soybean need to be cooked before being fed to cattle?

Chownah

[Tilapia]

Tilapia,

The things you refer to as by-products (soya-bean, casava, broken-rice, corn, rice-polish (ram), fishmeal).....are these the things you buy to feed the fish or are they the leftover scraps of things that you can not feed to the fish. This makes a big difference in the economics.

Chownah

Maizefarmer,

Does soybean need to be cooked before being fed to cattle?

Chownah

I buy the raw materials in bulk load, so I have to run all through the hammer-mill, before I can send it to the ekstruder, so what I want, is to feed to the cattle the grain there are to big for the ekstruder, if the cattle is able to eat that, then I have almost no waste on the raw material, and if it can generate a small profit by using it for cattle, that would just be great.

Tilapia.

[ozzydom]

Tilapia, maybe you can give me an answer , what is the protein content of ram (lum). I have been adding a bit to my fingerling feed,the ram from small village mills has more broken rice than that from the big commercial mills. The fingerlings seem to be doing better than normal since I started using it or maybe its an illusion.

[Maizefarmer]

Tilapia,

The things you refer to as by-products (soya-bean, casava, broken-rice, corn, rice-polish (ram), fishmeal).....are these the things you buy to feed the fish or are they the leftover scraps of things that you can not feed to the fish. This makes a big difference in the economics.

Chownah

Maizefarmer,

Does soybean need to be cooked before being fed to cattle?

Chownah

Soya & Soya bean can be fed to cattle. Mostly, it is soya cake that is fed because the oild is extracted for other purposes. Their is a potential problem with acidosis if it is over used, but in a balanced diet this is not a problem. It is an excellent source of cheap protein.

The rules for successful introduction/usage of freash soya beans in cattle diets:

1) Introduce and build up slowly of a period of about 2 week.

2) Keep the diet urea free.

3) Do not exceed around 12% -14% TR/DM (total ration dry matter).

4) Soya should not be feed to young calves (they have limited rumen function)

The real problem with soya bean from feedmill (hammered) is rancidity from the fat content i.e. it has a limited shelf life in Thailands hot/humid climate- about 2 - 3 days, nomore than that.

Night time shelter: keep it cheap and simple - throw up a wooden frame with a corragated tin roof or smililar. The sides can be a couple of 4" wide planks nailedto the uprights around the side : 2' above ground level and 4' above ground level. Leave wide openings/entrances/gates at each cnr so the cattle can use it in the day for shade. The higher the roof the better - 8' to 10' above ground level.

Covered area: 600 - 800 sqaure feet ( 25 x 30 or 20 x 40) - not smaller. Do not concreate the base - keep it bare andthrow down chopped dry grass.Might be an idea to concreate in the uprights - cows love rubbing themselves aginst these poles and will soon push the whole structure down if it is not ridgityly made!

MF

MF

Edited May 24, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[Tilapia]

Hi MF.

Thanks for those info, I have to start straight away, one local farmer close to me need to sell his cows/cattle so he can pay for his sons marriage, there is 30 heads with several females pregnant, it's a mixed bunch but they are cheap (I think) 150.000baht, so here we go, the next thing I need will be a horse and a lasso.

Tilapia.

[Tilapia]

Tilapia, maybe you can give me an answer , what is the protein content of ram (lum). I have been adding a bit to my fingerling feed,the ram from small village mills has more broken rice than that from the big commercial mills. The fingerlings seem to be doing better than normal since I started using it or maybe its an illusion.

Hi Ozzydom.

Ram contains 12% of protein and broken rice 8%, so it is not from that your fish are getting bigger. The powder-feed we make for small fry, contains 45% protein, what brand are you currently using ? and how many fish do you have ? Catfish or Tilapia.

Best regards.

Tilapia.

[Maizefarmer]

Hi MF.

Thanks for those info, I have to start straight away, one local farmer close to me need to sell his cows/cattle so he can pay for his sons marriage, there is 30 heads with several females pregnant, it's a mixed bunch but they are cheap (I think) 150.000baht, so here we go, the next thing I need will be a horse and a lasso.

Tilapia.

mmmmm ... I'd exercise caution if I was you. Read my notes on the forum (a few threads below) about selecting cows. Although written for dairy animals, there some common points to both dairy and beef.

Baht 150k for 30 head is real cheap. This sort of thing can happen when a farmer finds he has a heard problem.TB infection comes to mind - if one animal has it in a heard, chances then others have it. I suggest you get a vet's opinion before you committ yourself to this purchase.

How many animals does this guy have - is he selling the whole heard, and if not why these particular animals versus any others he has - especially if it's a mixed bunch. You do not want to buy someone eles problem. The other thing that comes to mind is that I can think of a dozen farmers who would rush at a chance to buy 30 head at 5K average price each - if all was in order. Do you due dilligence.

MF

[bannork]

Maybe there's a lot of young male calves in that herd, though it still sounds absurdly cheap.

Still I think prices have been very low the last few months, a slaughterhouse trader only offered us 12,000 baht for a Brahman cow and her fourth calf (male 5 months old ) the other day. Not worth selling.

[Tilapia]

Hi MF.

Thanks for those info, I have to start straight away, one local farmer close to me need to sell his cows/cattle so he can pay for his sons marriage, there is 30 heads with several females pregnant, it's a mixed bunch but they are cheap (I think) 150.000baht, so here we go, the next thing I need will be a horse and a lasso.

Tilapia.

mmmmm ... I'd exercise caution if I was you. Read my notes on the forum (a few threads below) about selecting cows. Although written for dairy animals, there some common points to both dairy and beef.

Baht 150k for 30 head is real cheap. This sort of thing can happen when a farmer finds he has a heard problem.TB infection comes to mind - if one animal has it in a heard, chances then others have it. I suggest you get a vet's opinion before you committ yourself to this purchase.

How many animals does this guy have - is he selling the whole heard, and if not why these particular animals versus any others he has - especially if it's a mixed bunch. You do not want to buy someone eles problem. The other thing that comes to mind is that I can think of a dozen farmers who would rush at a chance to buy 30 head at 5K average price each - if all was in order. Do you due dilligence.

MF

Hi MF.

I will have a vet to check them, it's the right thing to do, I don't think there are anything wrong with them, his son is getting married(I know that) and he says that he dont have the strenght to walk with them every day to find grasing, specially now, when they all start planting there rice. He wants to sell them as a "lot" not one by one, the problem is that nobody around here have that kind of money to spare.

But I will check them out for any kind of sickness.

Rgs

Tilapia