Could And Would

[RamdomChances]

Whats the Thai equivelent of Could i.e I could go to the market and would, not as in I would like a coffee, but I would do that but...., or I would off gone to the market but......

I know how to get accross what I'm trying to say in thai, like I would use "yesterday i wanted to go to the market but.....

Just wondering, I've asked a few thai friends, but either their english is not good enough to explain, or my thai is'nt good enough to ask, or usually a bit off both.

Thanks

[snowleopard]

Whats the Thai equivelent of Could i.e I could go to the market

เราสามารถไปเที่ยวได้=We can go sightseeing.

เราอาจจะไปเที่ยวได้=We could go sightseeing.

อาจเป็นไปได้=It could be done.

ฉันสามารถไปที่ตลาดได้เมื่อวานแต่ได้เปลียนใจเพราะว่าฝนมันตกหนัก=I could have gone to the market yesterday but I changed my mind because it rained so heavily.

and would, not as in I would like a coffee, but I would do that but....,

สมมุติว่าถ้ามีโอกาสแล้วฉันจะชื้อคันนั้นเลย=Had I got the chance,I would buy that car right away.

Hope you'll get a few hints from these examples!

Cheers.

Snowleopard

[meadish_sweetball]

As a complement to Snowleopard:

There are no straight equivalents of the English "could" and "would" (modal auxiliary verbs) in Thai, which means you have to adapt the statement to the situation, and maybe be more explicit, but also contemplate if you REALLY need to - Thais are generally not too concerned with being exact in conversation.

The future marker ja' (short vowel followed by glottal stop) can also be used to create modality expressions.

(Ja) pai talaat go daai. (suggesting someone to go to the market, or expressing the possibility with "could" in English) We/I/whoever could go to the market...

Rao mii ookaat pai talaat, tae (we had the opportunity to go to market)

...

There are probably people out there with better suggestions...

[RamdomChances]

ok thanks, I suspected there was no direct translation. So could is a bit like past tence of "can" , any one know about would, or would off??

I have thought about if I really need this and probably I dont, but was just curious.

Thanks anyway

[snowleopard]

I would off gone to the market but......

any one know about would, or would off??

I think you first need to explain in plain English what the expressions "would off" and "would off gone" really mean!

Are you referring to the contraction of "would've" from "would have"?

Both could and would are modal verbs so they should be used to modify a verb,shouldn't they?

The various usages of modal auxillaries in English can also be expressed in Thai by using other words as Meadish pointed out in his post!

If you're more specific about what you'd like to say,then I'll try to oblige by giving you some hints!

Snowleopard.

[RamdomChances]

Sorry,should of been "would of", "or would have".

i.e Yesterday I would have gone to the market but...

I am dyslexic, and while I read very quickly, I cant really differentiate "letters" so my brain tends to see words as sort of little pictrues, as long as that picture resembles a word in the right context of the sentance, thats how I read it. I does make editing my own posts very difficult as when I've writen something it is vietually impossible for me to tell weather it is spelt corectly. An example is my middle name john which i uasually spell jhon and looks equally right to me!!

While my spoken thai is pretty good as you may imagine I am having great difficulty with the reading writing part. I hope this makes things a bit clearer.

[snowleopard]

Sorry,should of been  "would of", "or would have".

i.e Yesterday I would have gone to the market but...

I am dyslexic, and while I read very quickly, I cant really differentiate "letters" so my brain tends to see words as sort of little pictrues, as long as that picture resembles a word in the right context of the sentance, thats how I read it. I does make editing my own posts very difficult as when I've writen something it is vietually impossible for me to tell weather it is spelt corectly. An example is my middle name  john which i uasually spell jhon and looks equally right to me!!

While my spoken thai is pretty good as you may imagine I am having great difficulty with the reading writing part. I hope this makes things a bit clearer.

I am dyslexic

Hi there RandomChances!

I didn't realize that you were dyslectic and I'm glad you're so up-front about the whole thing.

I'm not sure if you can read Thai yet,so I've provided some trans-literations to make the communication smoother!

Here are a few suggestions on how you could use the English modal verbs in Thai!

It's not complete and there are,of course,other alternatives too!

1.I can go to the market tomorrow.="Chan samart pai dtalaht dai nai wahn proong-nee".(ฉันสามารถไปตลาดได้ในวันพรุ่งนี้)

2.I could go to the market tomorrow.="Chan aht-jah pai dtalaht nai wahn proong-nee."(ฉันอาจจะไปตลาดในวันพรุ่งนี้)

3a.I shall go to the market.="Chan jah pai dtalaht."(ฉันจะไปตลาด)

3b.I will go to the market.

3c. I'll go to the market.

4.I must go to the market."Chan dtorng pai dtalaht."(ฉันต้องไปตลาด)

5.I should go to the market.="Chan khoan jah pai dtalaht."(ฉันควรจะไปตลาด)

6a.I would go to the market if I had time.="Chan jah pai dtalaht tah mee waela."(ฉันจะไปตลาดถ้ามีเวลา)

6b.I would like to go to the market if I have time.="Chan yahk jah pai dtalaht tah mee waela.(ฉันอยากจะไปตลาดถ้ามีเวลา)

7.I could have gone to the market yesterday.="Chan keu-ap pai dtalaht meua-wahn"(ฉันเกือบไปตลาดเมื่อวาน)

8.I should have gone to the market yesterday.=

a."Chan nah-jah pai dtalaht meua-wahn"(ฉัน่าจะไปตลาดเมื่อวาน);or,

b."Chan khoan jah pai dtalaht meua-wahn" (ฉันควรจะไปตลาดเมื่อวาน )

9.I would have gone to the market yesterday if it had not rained.="Chan jah pai dtalat meua-wahn tah fon mai dtok"(ฉันจะไปตลาดเมื่อวานถ้าฝนไม่ตก)

10.I suspect I must have gone to the market yesterday because the fridge is now full of beer;but I cannot actually remember going there cuz I was pissed as a newt!

="Songsai wah Chan dtong pai tee-oo dtalaht laeow meua-wahn PRO-WAH dton-nee dtoo-yen man dtem pai doo-ay bia; DTAE kvahm-jing laeow jahm mai dai ley PRO-WAH MA-OO mahk mahk!" (สงสัยว่าฉันต้องไปเที่ยวตลาดแล้วเมื่อวาน เพราะว่าตอนนี้ตู้เย็นมันเต็มไปด้วยเบียร์ แต่ความจริงแล้ว จำไม่ได้เลย เพราะว่าเมามากๆ)

Now, I'm so fed up with talking about the "market" that I'm gonna drink some Guinness beer instead.

="Dee-o-nee pom bua poot gee-o-gap reuang dtalaht laeow jeung jah deum bia dahm taen dee kwa"(เดี๋ยวนี้ผมเบื่อเพูดเกี่ยวกับรื่องตลากแล้ว จึงจะดื่มเบียร์ดำแทนดีกว่า

Cheers.

Snowleopard.(เสือดาวสีขาวเหมือนหิมะ)

[RamdomChances]

Thanks mate, as for reading thai I'm try'ing just cos i know it willl help my spoken thai a lot!!

Ok I have a few questions , most of what you rote i understand .(if I dont refer to it I understand)

1. "samart", hered it spoken "can" chai mai krap?

2. I would of thought "mabye I 'll go to the market tomorrow."

3-6. No prob

7. keu-ap, (could?)

8a 8.I should have gone to the market yesterday.=Chan nah-jah pai dtalaht meua-wahn, I dont agree but understand and know what you mean

8b spot on

9 same

The rest I understand also in both languages , you are right i can not yet read thai, but can convert the transliteration easy enoughf , like i said my spoken is pretty good , but as you have read even my writn english is cr#ap!!

Thanks for the help

Ps as I said i tought there were no direct translations, but was just treying to inprove my spoken laanguage. Thanks

[Boon Mee]

Actually would and could is similar for Thais. It means คง,จะ,คงจะ,

อาจจะ ( this is like past tense). Actually it's depends on the content of the

sentence.

You might say, "I would go to the store if I

wasn't so lazy" ฉันคงไป ร้านขายของถ้าฉันไม่ขี้เกียจ

And, "I could go to the store if my car

wasn't broken". ฉันคงไปร้านขายของ ถ้า รถของฉันไม่เสีย

But what do I know, I'm still learning...

[snowleopard]

Thanks mate, as for reading thai I'm try'ing just cos i know it willl help my spoken thai a lot!!

Ok I have a few questions , most of what you rote i understand .(if I dont refer to it I understand)

1. "samart", hered it spoken "can" chai mai krap?

"(สามารถ)samart=able"!

In one of its uses,the modal verb "CAN" is used to show ability;so I would think that these two sentences mean the same:

"I can go to the market=I am able to go to the market".="Chan samart pai dtalaht dai".(ฉันสามารถไปตลาดได้)

2. I would of thought "mabye I 'll go to the market tomorrow."

You're right about,"maybe=aht-jah (อาจจะ)"!

When the modal verb "COULD" is used for the future,it indicates a possibility of happening;so that is why I used "aht-jah (อาจจะ) for "could"!

In English,I would say there's a difference between the,"I could go to the market tomorrow";and,"Maybe,I'll go to the market tomorrow",but I usually translate them the same way unless it's very crucial to show exact meaning!

It's possible to use more Thai words for detail when necessary.

7. keu-ap, (could?)

No!

keu-ap(เกือบ)=almost,nearly.

I used that translation for the modal verb "COULD" together with the present perfect tense "HAVE GONE" to indicate that there was no hindrance to go to the market yesterday but it never actually happened.

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[RamdomChances]

Thanks SL

With ref to Keu-ap if forgot about the "k" "g" thing show's the limitations of writing in english, why is ก (gor gai) translated as K anyone know?

I would of said geu-ap.

I would like to say this is good stuff for me, most of the words we are using i know already and have said before I did'nt think there where direct translatns, but it helps me and maybe others to use words in the right context.

I could also make sugestions(or at least informed questions) my self but I'm a bit put off because I cant wright thai.

Thanks ad well Bon Mee unfortunatly i can understand any of it.

[Richard W]

With ref to Keu-ap if forgot about the "k" "g" thing show's the limitations of writing in english, why is ก  (gor gai) translated as K anyone know?

I would of said geu-ap.

Thai has a three-way distinction of stops at the start of a syllable: voiced (e.g. English 'b' (just), Thai บ), voiceless unaspirated (Thai ป, English 'p' in 'spy'), and voiceless aspirated (English 'p' in 'pie', Thai ผ พ ภ). The English voiced stops have very little voicing compared to other languages, and are between the Thai voiced and voiceless unaspirated stops. Using international standards, the Thai contrast is best recorded as b v. p v. ph.

For the velars, Thai only contrasts voiceless unaspirated and voiceless aspirated; it has no voiced velar stop. These stops are therefore written k (ก) v. kh (ข ค ฆ). The same applies to the 'palatal' stops, which in the best conventions are distinguished c (จ) v. ch (ฉ ช ฌ). (There is a transliteration scheme which uses ch v. chh, which results in the bizarre-looking surname Chhinna.)

Englishmen have difficulty producing voiceless unaspirated stops. However, if we say 'g' or 'j', Thais should only hear ก or จ.

The official transcription has the following system:

   k   kh
   ch  ch (Bad choice!)
d   t  th
b   p  ph

Some textbooks teaching Thai try to stick to English letter values, and so we get:

    g  k
    j  ch
d   dt t
b   bp p

Probably the least ambiguous system is:

    g   kh
    j   ch
d   dt  th
b   bp  ph

However, Thai has neither a voiced sound 'g' nor voiced sound 'j'. In fact, in many old loans from English, 'j' is replaced by 'y'.

People acquainted with many languages generally prefer the international standard

    k   kh
    c   ch
d   t   th
b   p   ph

and this is the basis of the ISO 11940:1998 standard for reversibly transliterating Thai into the Roman alphabet.

Mandarin Chinese does not have voiced stops. The Chinese pinyin system uses 'g', 'd' and 'b' for the unaspirated stops, and does not need to use 'h' to indicate aspiration.

[snowleopard]

Thanks SL

With ref to Keu-ap if forgot about the "k" "g" thing show's the limitations of writing in english, why is ก  (gor gai) translated as K anyone know?

I would of said geu-ap.

Hi again RandomChances,

I think you're right about that!

I should have written "geu-ap" instead of "keu-ap"!

ก as an initial consonant should be transliterated as G or KH!

ก as a final consonant should definitely be written as K!

Thanks ad well Bon Mee unfortunatly i can understand any of it.

You might say, "I would go to the store if I

wasn't so lazy" ฉันคงไป ร้านขายของถ้าฉันไม่ขี้เกียจ

And, "I could go to the store if my car

wasn't broken". ฉันคงไปร้านขายของ ถ้า รถของฉันไม่เสีย

Here's a transliteration from Thai:

ฉันคงไป ร้านขายของถ้าฉันไม่ขี้เกียจ="chan kong pai rahn kai korng thaa chan mai kee-gee-at"

and:

ฉันคงไปร้านขายของ ถ้า รถของฉันไม่เสีย="chan kong pai rahn kai korng thaa rot korng chan mai see-ah"

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[Richard W]

ก as an initial consonant should be transliterated as G or KH!

ก as a final consonant should definitely be written as K!

What's the justification of KH for ก? I would have said that that was the one transliteration or transcriptions that should never be used.

ก as a final consonant should definitely be written as K!

While that's by far my preference, I think a phonetic transcription scheme that uses B and D for final บ and ด should be allowed to use G for final ก. Mary Haas's scheme did.

[snowleopard]

ก as an initial consonant should be transliterated as G or KH!

ก as a final consonant should definitely be written as K!

What's the justification of KH for ก? I would have said that that was the one transliteration or transcriptions that should never be used.

No justification needed Rickie!

I'm no good at transliterations because I prefer the real McCoy,which is the Thai script itself;and,I never actually used any Latin characters when I learned the vernacular many years ago.

"G" is definitely a better choice than "KH" for "ก" ;but I remember having seen the "KH" transliteration in several books here in Thailand some years ago and I suspect there are still some around.

I think the usefulness of English letters for learning Thai is limited.

I use a lot of Thai writing to transliterate English words for Thais and I know the readers can't pronounce English very clearly;eventhough,Thai script is probably better than its English counterpart as a pronunciation tool.

The only reason for my providing the transliterations of my Thai sentences was as a service to RandomChances so he would know exactly which words I used in them.

He's mentioned that he doesn't read Thai yet.

It's not a pronunciation guide per se because he has already learned how to pronounce those words from native speakers!

How about you?Can you read Thai yet Richard?The impression I get is that you seem overly obsessed with transliterations and pronounciation codes!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[snowleopard]

I could also make sugestions(or at least informed questions) my self but I'm a bit put off because I cant wright thai.

Come on now Random C.

Please do not hesitate!Write them down in transliterated script!

I'm sure you have plenty of good suggestions you've picked up from native speakers in your neck of the woods!

I'm all ears!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[Richard W]

I think the usefulness of English letters for learning Thai is limited.

I use a lot of Thai writing to transliterate English words for Thais and I know the readers can't pronounce English very clearly;eventhough,Thai script is probably better than its English counterpart as a pronunciation tool.

Most textbook's schemes are very limited simply because they are peculiar to that book; some are even worse because they don't make distinctions that they should. (Half the battle is to know that there is a difference to be made!) Leaving out the tone indication is a popular but very bad idea.

Sometimes you need a transcription because the Thai spelling is ambiguous, and smetimes because some of the wrinkles are not well taught, e.g. the effect of final ร in a closed syllable on the length and quality of the implicit vowel.

Thai script does seem much better for representing English spelling than English spelling is for Thai. It's a shame that IPA-based transcriptions don't sell.

Can you read Thai yet Richard?

Only haltingly. I am limited by my vocabulary. I am not confident in my reading of long words, but perhaps one simply has to know them - compare the syllabification of Kanchanaburi and Suphanburi. (At least I was out-performing thai-language.com before it was suspended - I did wonder if Glenn Slayden was getting sick of my corrections to the syllabifications.) Also, I have difficulty with ornate fonts, as in the titles of films and magazines. Reading normal handwriting used to be another problem, but I seem to have got the hang of that. (It's still very confusing when ก, ค and ด are not consistently distinguished!)

The impression I get is that you seem overly obsessed with transliterations and pronounciation codes!

It has long irritated me that there doesn't seem to be a standard scheme for representing Thai spellings in linguistic forums. As to the phonetically based schemes, it is very frustrating when one is trying to work out how a word is actually spelt in Thai if you've only seen it in transliteration.

When Bina asked for a transcription of the phrase for 'happy birthday', I wanted her to understand what I had written - if a job's worth doing, its worth doing well. Also, I don't like errors being propagated.

[RamdomChances]

Thanks both, I've never really bothered to learn any set systems for writing thai in english, vertually all the books and dictanaries use diferent ones.

I had some lessons (only 20hrs) back when I in "civilisation" and always remember asking the teacher how you spell things in english, the repliy was however you want!! ( which is good as thats how I spell things in english as well!!)

I only usually write things down in english as an "aide memoire" and spell it as I here it.

My wifes english is pretty good, but getting worse all the time, and I have a friend who comes back from BKK most weekends who's vocabulary is really good but cant put a sentance toether for the life of him.

Apart from that everyone speaks thai (cos its thailand) it does make it difficult to advance your speaking, reading/writing skills when theres know one to really ask. An example we were driving back from Nakorn today and heard someone say on the radio "Kwam sam kan" so I thought oh yea thats how you say "importence", I checked with the wife she says its "importent", so after a while explaining the difference she says yea ok "importence!!!

[bina]

i have to say that after learning one language which does not look like anything recognizable to most people, i should be able to learn thai the same way, but alas, age and hard work out in the sun every day make it much more difficult.

i learned hebrew as a child much as most do in the states: we learned yiddish w/hebrew letters, then learned hebrew with an ashkenazi accent which is really horrendous becouse noone actually speaks like that here... we learned thru: transliteration... which when u try to speak like that, people just look at you, cause u miss a lot of the gutterals etc. i learned to read and then to write thru shear neccessity and refuse to let my children learn english in such a rediculous manner.

examples of transliteration:

tzuba, tsuba, zova, tzoba (the name of my kibbutz)... when read in hebrew letters צובה, its entirely understandabe, but this way it isnt...

an other example: my daughter's name Aeviv (not like tel aviv the hill of spring, but ae -- עביב a gutteral a/ which means little cloud.... any way transliteration is impossible and i have to transliterate thai names from english to hebrew which is even funnier and the names go thru metamorphosis constantly.

[Richard W]

an other example: my daughter's name Aeviv (not like tel aviv the hill of spring, but ae -- עביב  a gutteral a/  which means little cloud.... any way transliteration is impossible.

If it's to be done reversibly, what's wrong with ‘Ābhîbh? (I'm assuming its qametz and not a hateph. Admittedly I'd prefer ‘Ābîb, but that's too technical.)

Thai into Hebrew must be quite a crunch!

[snowleopard]

I think the usefulness of English letters for learning Thai is limited.

I use a lot of Thai writing to transliterate English words for Thais and I know the readers can't pronounce English very clearly;eventhough,Thai script is probably better than its English counterpart as a pronunciation tool.

Thai script does seem much better for representing English spelling than English spelling is for Thai. It's a shame that IPA-based transcriptions don't sell.

Hi Richard,

Now while we are talking about the topic of transliterating English words for Thais by using Thai script and since you're interested in these things,I'm wondering if you would have any suggestions on the following problem!

If I'm right,there are two different sounds in English for the letter combination "TH"!

In the pronunciation of the first "TH" sound,the tongue leaves a little gap when it's put against the inside of the front teeth and the sound is kinda "snake like".

Some examples of words belonging to this group are:

month,three,both,north,south,thread,think,through,thermo,tooth,cloth,bath,etc.

The second "TH" sound is done with the tongue at the front teeth while the tongue is kind of vibrating a bit.

Some words pronounced in this fashion are:

northern,southern,there,clothes,brother,they,then,than,bathe,whether,weather,etc

My question to you is:

How would you write these two "TH" sounds by using Thai characters?

What Thai letters or combos would you use to represent the correct English pronunciation?

These sounds don't exist in Thai and I haven't found an accurate method for writing them so far!

If somebody else has any informed ideas on the subject,please feel free to post them here!

All good suggestions are appreciated!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[meadish_sweetball]

The English TH sounds cannot be represented accurately by Thai letters since these sounds do not exist in the Thai sound system. The only way would be to phonetically qualify and describe the sound value of these letters to learners, just like you tried to do, Snowleopard.

I have noticed that many Thai lexicographers and textbook authors use ธ (thcc thong) to represent the voiced and unvoiced lisps in English "the" and "thing". This works only if the students learn how this symbol is to be interpreted, just as the two "c" symbols I just used to represent the "aw"-like sound used as a vowel suffix for pronouncing thai letters.

[Richard W]

My recollection is that the voiced TH sound of English is normally represented by ด - the underlining alerts the reader to the fact that this is not the Thai sound. Some dictionaries also do that with ก and จ, not to make a distinction, but to remind the reader that the English sounds are different to the Thai sounds. I think underlining is standard with ซ ('zo zoo' ).

I try to follow the dictionaries as much as I can stomach to avoid confusion. I don't like the Thai doubling of consonants after short vowels, because then I can't represent 'bookcase' which genuinely does have a double consonant. I also insist on transcribing 'ban' as แบ็น, because แบน is 'bairn'. Correspondences are messy for vowels in this area. (I transcribe British English.)

[RamdomChances]

Richard, you are obviously a very intelligent man and are thecnacally exelant when it comes to writen thai and its routes ie Sanscrit, Pali ect.

I feel most people are'nt really interested in the origines of words, and are posting for a little help, trying to show how clever you are is fine (and i think you are) but why not try to put things into simple language.

I may also be wrong on this but have you read snowleopard"s posts do you really think that he did not know the answer to the question before he asked it!! or was mabye trying to show a point.

The best teachers are the ones that get their point across simply and clearly.

[Richard W]

I feel most people are'nt really interested in the origines of words, and are posting for a little help,...

I'm not the only one here with an interest in the origin of words, but I admit it is a minority interest. What do you suggest - a further splitting into, say, 'Practical Thai' and 'Thai Linguistics'? There will, of course, be cross-connections. Some questions of grammar would probably belong in the latter - e.g. a discussion on the compounding of Sanskrit words in Thai. A discussion on the parts of speech in Thai could wind up in either. So could a discussion on how to identify Thai letters.

trying to show how clever you are is fine but why not try to put things into simple language.

...

The best teachers are the ones that get their point across simply and clearly.

Putting things simply is hard work!

I may also be wrong on this but have you read snowleopard"s posts do you really think that he did not know the answer to the question before he asked it!! or was mabye trying to show a point.

I believe Snowleopard was inviting a discussion on transcribing English into Thai to help Thais pronounce English, with particular emphasis on 'th'.

When he asked whether I could read Thai, both a simple 'yes' and a simple 'no' would have been misleading. He may have been implying that I should devote my energy to learning the Thai alphabet well enough not to need transliteration or transcription - that needed answering.

[Richard W]

My recollection is that the voiced TH sound of English is normally represented by ด - the underlining alerts the reader to the fact that this is not the Thai sound. Some dictionaries also do that with ก and จ, not to make a distinction, but to remind the reader that the English sounds are different to the Thai sounds. I think underlining is standard with ซ ('zo zoo' ).

My recollection is at fault!

For voiced 'th' (as in 'the'):

• Se-ed's Modern English-Thai Dictionary uses ธ with a dot under it according to the legend, but it's missing in the body of the dictionary, so it does not distinguish the 'th' of thin from that of 'this'!
  
• Kamol's English-Thai Dictionary (a pocket dictionary, published by Thai Watthana Panit) italicises ธ
  
• A larger, earlier edition (1971) from the same company, but not saying "Kamol's", uses underlined ธ.
  

They all use plain ธ for the 'th'of 'thin'.

I shouldn't have contradicted Meadish Sweetball. Sorry.

[bina]

whats wrong with a bit of brain boggling? linguistics is fun;

richard how do you know also hebrew ling. etc? not the worlds most useful language but lots of thais running around sort of speaking it, its actually quite funny to see me in thailand speaking hebrw/thai with ex workers from here.

spent two days trying to figure out who 'wichara' is, turns out its 'visilak' after being mangled from english to hebrew back to english.... thought the guy didnt exist....

just makes me work harder trying to learn to read thai and give up the transcripting. im leaving post'em s everywhere at work with the thai word written on it then sompong tells me how to say it and i look at it and remember it; u know, to yen on the fridge, etc.

[Richard W]

richard how do you know also hebrew ling. etc?

Mathematicians can run short of symbols; the head of Pure Maths famously resorted to using Japanese kana symbols in one lecture! (The current Astronomer Royal takes a different approach - he is said to use phi for everything. More precisely, small phi frequently has several diferent meanings in the same equation!) Mathematicians already know א, so I thought it might be worth learning the other 21 letters.

[snowleopard]

The English TH sounds cannot be represented accurately by Thai letters since these sounds do not exist in the Thai sound system. The only way would be to phonetically qualify and describe the sound value of these letters to learners, just like you tried to do, Snowleopard.

I have noticed that many Thai lexicographers and textbook authors use ธ (thcc thong) to represent the voiced and unvoiced lisps in English "the" and "thing".

Hej där Meadish Sweetball,

Jag har läst några av dina poster och tycker att du verkar ha bra förståelse för det Thailändska språket!

Jag har också sett att de använder "ธ" i uppslags-verken för Engelska "TH" men det blir ju helt galet och oförståeligt när dom stackars Thailändarna forsoker att ut-tala det gruturala "Indo-Europeiska" språket på det viset!

Har du några smarta förslag på hur man kan skriva och förklara dom två "TH"ut-talen för de Thailändska Engelska eleverna?

Om Richard W. ser den här posten,och har så mycket paranoia att han faktiskt försöker översätta den till Engelska,så får han nog ett linguistiskt "krupp" anfall på kuppen!

Jag har varit ute och pumpat i mig några Guinness öl idag så det är nog därfor jag fick sån överväldigande lust att skriva lite på Svedaliska!

Får se hur reaktionen blir!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[snowleopard]

whats wrong with a bit of brain boggling? linguistics is fun;

richard how do you know also hebrew ling. etc?  not the worlds most useful language but lots of thais running around sort of speaking it,

Shalom!

Hava-nagila,hava-nagila wel-mech maha!

Hava-na ra-nena,hava-na ra-nena!

Koh Hai Chok-dee na krahp

Snowleopard.