Are Foreigners Still Welcome Here?

[ludosiam]

As far as feeling welcomed I believe you need to ask " by who ". I have been living in Thailand for 13 years. The country has gotten worse for greeting foreigners every year that I have been here. I believe the common man still looks at us with interest where the business man who has to compete sees us as a threat. Since the government is controlled by business they make it difficult for foreigners.

I wonder why a country like Thailand, not rich nor poor, requires a foreigner to earn 10 times the amount of a normal Thai person just to stay in the country as a non tourist. This is unless you are married, then it is only 5 times. I understand some of the other requirements but the money part is only about greed.

Many posts actually do point towards the difference between the ordinary citizen and the government. It well could be that we're being seen as a thread by some business-government persons. And the monetary aspect of a visa application is in my opinion morally and ethical unjustified as Thailand does not have a proper social welfare

[ilyushin]

Sure - I still feel welcomed.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

how many farang teachers are eligible?

Bet they could be counted on 1 hand...

From a salary point of view, only those working at some international schools are earning enough.

G

Teaching is exempt from the minimum salary rule. Which is why some schools pay 150 baht per hour.

[Fred Sanford]

Those with open wallet wads are always welcome but sadly those on tight budgets are getting a squeeze job

[vermin on arrival]

If you decide to live in a country other than your country of citizenship, there is always an element of risk to be asked/forced to move on.

I have lived outside of my country for more than 38 years and I am 'only' 52.

The rules change and you have to adapt or find an alternative. You also need to prepare for the alternative.

It is normal that a country has rules they seem fit to regulate foreigners.

The annoying part is that the rules are interpreted and applied differently but this can/is part of the way Thai's go about their daily lives and is not restricted to immigration rules.

Krub,

Yeah, it is normal that they set their own rules, but we don't have to like or agree with them(not that it means or affects anything, but at least we can gripe about it). Certainly, one has to be prepared for the worst in these cases and make plans for a possible relocation depending on ones' circumstances.

The constantly changing interpretations can be maddening, especially when done by different officials at the same post. Maybe the person in charge of the next line will apply the rule differently, but to use a cliche, TIT. It certainly applies to everything else here as well.

38 years as an expat, and only 52? Impressive.

[ludosiam]

Agree, changing immigration rules are annoying, and I am sure that the fact we on this board do not like it wont change anything. But bringing up this issue can raise some awareness withing the expat community to prepare accordingly. For me, I have decided not to keep investing in Thailand anymore but looking for some offshore account to be safe.

[terryp]

Remember Thailand is now a Country under Military Rule (that means Nobody Thai/Foreigner has any rights):

Why are so many of you blind to the fact that as Western Foreigners we have never been wanted here…except for what we could give….. money…experience…ideas

Remember all the joint venture projects in the 70’s/80’s , almost all were Foreign financed….built for free as Thailand was classed as a poor developing nation

Thailand has moved on dramatically from the 300,000 tourists a year in the 70’s

(Now around 11 million…Malaysia is around 28 million)

They rode the Western Gravy train very well…now their eyes are on the same from Asia (China, Korea, India, Russia etc)

The old adage still applies…. put your money on the immigration counter and promptly leave (Thailand)

Over the years have any of you genuinely felt as if Thailand has become more Foreigner friendly; excluding for monetary reasons…..you know the Wonderful Thai smile that is always given just before you have to give…

Yes I still live here, but I saw thro the cr”p years ago & with the baht/costs lately it’s really not worth it (Plenty of better locations/beaches/ in the World)…that is unless you are on the run or can’t buy a ticket out

[ludosiam]

In another topic and here as well it is mentioned that many regulations are being interpreted in several ways. I am sure that I do not want to rely on an officers good will to get another one year extension to be able to continue my business here!

[click2delete]

there was another thread not too long ago with the same poll that made the same mistake you have. Neither made a distinction between feeling welcome by the current government or feeling welcome by the people.

I still feel welcome by the thai people i am around and most others. I do not feel welcome by the government.

I think you should have this poll deleted and start a new one with the proper distinction of who you want to know we are getting the negative or positive feelings from.

that's correct, I started that thread. if you don't like it, why don't you start your own thread? From the Nazi style raids on the niran condos to the let me see your papers please stop this on the street, that thais are showing their very ugly side

Edited May 25, 2007 by click2delete

[The Dan Sai Kid]

oh dear

[ratcatcher]

Very interesting opinions and facts so far, thanks a lot for posting. 2 ironic facts have come up so far here: foreigners employed by the government actually very often do not qualify for the visa requirements set by the government as far as I understand. And the very people who do welcome us in our daily life have elected a government that seems to have an opposite opinion regarding foreigners.

An interesting topic, although we've been down this road before. This is not an elected government and,yes, there is a feeling among farangs that things ain't what they used to be. However, I am married to a Thai, live in a Thai neighborhood in Thonburi and have never felt unwelcome by the street Thais or those at, say, immigration. One poster pointed out that the government is trying to get of some of the more "undesirable" elements. Use your imagination as to who they may be.

From my experience, most expats married to Thai women and many with children and living either in the capital or up country are welcome in their communities as long as they abide by community standards. Most do and thus have few problems. They help support extended families and bring money into small communities.

It is highly unlikely IMHOP that there will be a farang purge, much like that in the 1970's by Ugandan despot Idi Amin, where he kicked out all the Indians that had been there for generations.

[Ave]

Yes, it's not clear whether the reference is toward people in general or the government.

My general feelings at the moment are: not so welcome by the new thai government. Usually welcome by thai people in most areas of Thailand, including big cities. Hat Yai and Pattaya are the only exceptions for me. I can sense some degree of coldness and sometimes even haste, especially between Thai males and farang people including females. It might just be the result of my own distorted perceptions. I believe that when we move to or visit another country or even continent we carry some personal luggage with us and sometimes we also forget to take in consideration the cultural differences that can cause friction and misunderstanding. There have been difficult times when I thought that most people were hostile and unhelpful and thought of leaving. But now that things are actually working out I feel in synch with almost everyone..mhh.. Acting modestly, respecting their ways and making an effort to communicate in their language rather than English helps hugely. In the end I think it's down to each individual's attitude to feel welcome.

[ThaiGoon]

Thailand has moved on dramatically from the 300,000 tourists a year in the 70’s

(Now around 11 million…Malaysia is around 28 million)

What?

http://www.world-tourism.org/facts/eng/pdf...s/Top25_ita.pdf

[Ijustwannateach]

To be fair, there are quite a number of teachers in my acquaintance who would qualify for PR under current rules if they wanted it. There would be quite a few more *if* they fully declared and paid tax on all the income they get through various kinds of extra hours properly- there's the rub.

Even based on salary alone, though, there are quite a number- and while I sadly am not among that number yet, I am a lot closer than I was 4 years ago, and have high hopes to join them before too many more years have passed.

"Steven"

[kratindaeng]

Do Foreigners spend a lot of money? Yes they do. Are Foreigners still welcome here? Yes. Simple.

[pop3]

It is highly unlikely IMHOP that there will be a farang purge, much like that in the 1970's by Ugandan despot Idi Amin, where he kicked out all the Indians that had been there for generations.

///////////////////////////////////////

Same as those in South Africa that lost their farms,

Shit happens, mabe I better sell the farm now ? Then again I could stick my head in the sand with the masses and pretend we have some rights here.

[JR Texas]

It is highly unlikely IMHOP that there will be a farang purge, much like that in the 1970's by Ugandan despot Idi Amin, where he kicked out all the Indians that had been there for generations.

///////////////////////////////////////

Same as those in South Africa that lost their farms,

Shit happens, mabe I better sell the farm now ? Then again I could stick my head in the sand with the masses and pretend we have some rights here.

JR Texas: Are foreigners still welcome in Thailand? If you mean by the government, I think that the answer is clearly no with regard to foreigners that are not rich. The visa and business rules reflect this narrow minded, ill-informed attitude.

Now the govt. seems intent on pulling the welcome mat from underneath rich foreigners that want to start small or large-scale businesses in Thailand. It is no coincidence that investment dollars and jobs are moving out of Thailand to more favorable places (e.g., Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, China).

In terms of tourism and the expat community, the government clearly does not want farangs to visit or live in Thailand that are not rich, thus excluding from the welcome mat 98 percent of the people that have been visiting Thailand over the years and 99% of the expats that are currently living here.

The "we do not want foreigners that are not rich attitude" is a terrible move by Thailand and is only hurting the economy. Compare Thailand's attitude with New Zealand, Australia and America..........all of which work hard to attract tourists from foreign countries that are not rich. Why? Because the vast majority of tourists are not rich!

Expats living here should be concerned. No doubt the visa bar will be raised further and the grandfathered laws will be abrogated after the increasingly geriatric expat community starts being perceived by the govt. as more of a burden than an asset. [At that point it will be interesting to see if the "I am better than you because I am have lots of money to get a long-term visa" crowd on this forum will change their tune.]

If you mean welcome by the Thai people, I would have to say that many Thai people still want farangs here--rich or not rich--but most Thais have always wanted our money more than they have wanted us. Thais are, in general, very xenophobic and ethnocentric (not unusual for any country today and the ruling elite want it that way as it prevents large-scale cooperation).

I think it is important to note that Thailand is (in theory) a democracy. That means that the people rule (in theory). At present, I do not see any outcry by the people to roll back the xenophobic, inhumane and economically destructive changes that have taken place to the visa/business rules over the past seven years.

So, what does that say about whether or not foreigners are welcome in the Kingdom? Personally, I would take a close look at other alternatives.........Thailand's star is no longer rising and the situation on the ground could turn explosive in the near future.

Good luck!

[ThaiGoon]

I guess you are in the 10% or so (according to the poll results in this thread) who are plaining to migrate then (while the majority, more than 60%, still feel welcomed.)

Adios, JRTexas!

Edited May 27, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[JR Texas]

The wording of the poll is a bit misleading:

Sure - I still feel welcomed

Less than it used to be

Not really, but I don't have a better option

Planning to migrate

"Planning to migrate" could be interpreted as {planning to migrate to Thailand" or "planning to move to Thailand."

I think you actually mean the precise opposite, "planning to leave Thailand" or "planning to migrate from Thailand"

Also, "not really, but I don't have a better option" is also a bit awkward. I might want agree with "not really" but I might have a better option.

Why not change this to:

Very welcome

Moderately welcome

Not welcome

Planning to migrate away from Thailand

[ThaiGoon]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

[Mid]

grant me the serenity

to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can,

and the wisdom to know the difference

[borracho]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

Why take this issue so personally?

I found JRT's post articulate while raising some valid points regarding living here. We should have our eyes open given the current changes occurring in the government.

I certainly don't think it's time to panic and "abandon ship". Nor is it time to let your personal emotions distort reality.

It's very unlikely an Idi Amin will happen here.

Thai society is a very mixed bag, things are stirred up a bit now as they are all over the world.

I'm afraid we are living in interesting times which I think require one to be dispassionate.

I'd prefer people spare us their alarmist hysteria or otherwise myopic perspectives.

[chuchok]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

You should read his post properly mate.seemed very fair to me.I suppose,that unless you are on the recieving end of government policy,you might find it bit hard to understand.It was not a slight against Thai people at all.

Why did you answer the post this way????

[lazeeboy]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

You should read his post properly mate.seemed very fair to me.I suppose,that unless you are on the recieving end of government policy,you might find it bit hard to understand.It was not a slight against Thai people at all.

Why did you answer the post this way????

were still here,the thai government are only trying to get rid of the farangs that work without work permits,ive just renewed my 1 year resident visa and it was no different from years gone by ,yes some are stil welcome.

[chuchok]

I think it exactly means that, "planning to migrate away from Thailand." JRTexas, I'm hoping that your dream of getting out of Thailand will come true soon. I'm rooting for you to get out of my country asap! That's from me personally.

You should read his post properly mate.seemed very fair to me.I suppose,that unless you are on the recieving end of government policy,you might find it bit hard to understand.It was not a slight against Thai people at all.

Why did you answer the post this way????

were still here,the thai government are only trying to get rid of the farangs that work without work permits,ive just renewed my 1 year resident visa and it was no different from years gone by ,yes some are stil welcome.

Yep,you got that right,some are still welcome.Don't kid youself that current policy is just to get rid of farang that don't have work permits etc.

[Maigo6]

Yes I still live here, but I saw thro the cr”p years ago & with the baht/costs lately it’s really not worth it (Plenty of better locations/beaches/ in the World)…that is unless you are on the run or can’t buy a ticket out

So what catagory do you fit into ?

[younghusband]

Very interesting opinions and facts so far, thanks a lot for posting. 2 ironic facts have come up so far here: foreigners employed by the government actually very often do not qualify for the visa requirements set by the government as far as I understand. And the very people who do welcome us in our daily life have elected a government that seems to have an opposite opinion regarding foreigners.

Those foriegners WILL be eligible for PR .... and find it easier than many to achieve

I'm not sure on what basis you make this assumption about PR.I am very familiar with the process and know of very few foreigners employed by the government who have achieved PR.Foreign teachers for example and presumably the majority in this category, although usually respected in their immediate communities, unfortunately don't have much status with the authorities in Thailand.They are regarded as essentially dispensable birds of passage and because the supply is so much greater than the demand they are rather poorly paid.That's why teaching is overwhelmingly a young person's profession for Westerners in Thailand, some of the middle-aged and older ones leading rather sad lives. I do know a few teachers however with PR and they generally have long term contracts at Thailand's most prestigious schools and universities and tend to be very well educated(Stanford,Brown,Cambridge and Yale graduates in the cases I know) and socially well connected.The typical successful PR applicant is however an established businessman earning a high salary, and is unlikely to be a member of this forum.I do recognise that my perception is a personal one and there may be many government employed farang out there with PR that I never come across.

[Krub]

The "we do not want foreigners that are not rich attitude" is a terrible move by Thailand and is only hurting the economy. Compare Thailand's attitude with New Zealand, Australia and America..........all of which work hard to attract tourists from foreign countries that are not rich. Why? Because the vast majority of tourists are not rich!

It is much easier for an average foreigner to be a tourist in Thailand than for a Thai to be a tourist in foreignland especially the 3 countries you singled out.

These 3 countries maybe dreaming of tourists but are certainly not making it easy for the potential candidates rich or poor

[grtaylor]

Why are so many of you blind to the fact that as Western Foreigners we have never been wanted here…except for what we could give….. money…experience…ideas

I would suggest that most countries now feel the same about foreigners . . . . .

G

Edited May 27, 2007 by grtaylor

[ludosiam]

Well, regarding getting a PR I actually do fulfill the written requirements about consecutive B - Visas and do have a good Tax record for this