Solar Energy

[Kan Win]

http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=28423

Science Ministry calls for promotion of solar energy

BANGKOK, June 23 (TNA) - The Science and Technology Minister Mr. Korn Dabbaransi yesterday called for the use of solar energy to replace electricity generated from oil, stressing the benefits both to the environment and to the national coffers.

Mr. Korn told industrialists to make the switch to solar energy.

He likes other government ministers as having been asked by the the Prime Minister Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra to find solutions to the oil price crisis,

Noting that Thailand now possesses the technology to produce its own solar panels, he said that solar energy could also be converted into heat energy, which, in turn, could be used to create a natural coolant effect to replace compressors in air conditioners; thus saving vast amounts of money.

The Ministry of Science and Technology has pledged to liaise with the Ministry of Industry to support the greater use of solar power within Thailand's industrial sector.

The Ministry of Industry itself is working on energy-saving plans, Mr. Korn also advocated the use of solar energy in hospitals, noting that solar power was already being used in Bang Lamung Hospital in the eastern province of Chonburi in order to wash and sterilize clothing.

The ministry is also in talks with the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (EGAT) to create incentives for ordinary householders to install solar panels, with any excess electricity bought back by EGAT to put into the national electricity system.

Saengsom Co. Ltd. and Cement Thai Plc, whose representatives met Mr. Korn yesterday, are likely to be the first companies to pilot the ministry's solar energy scheme.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I would be interested in this one.

Kan anyone “enlighten” me, re where to buy etc…. or should one wait until the price is right ??

[KevinN]

with the buy back it will make a lot more people try it,but you can forget reefers,air cons and large watt electric motors,even with large energy storage units[batterys] the size of the array will be almost cost prohibitive to run high energy uses. To run a normal house with the fore mentioned things you would have to have about 20 sq. wah array of high quality panels to maintain charge for your batterys.

Figure 1000 W at 220V =80 amp.draw for your inverter from a 12 V bank.

That is a lot of amps at the battery.

But if you do not have air con and just lights and fans and no reefer then an array of 4 high quality panels would spin your meter back more during the day than it would run foreword during the nite, but batterys and inverters are spendy.and most batterys are a pretty short lifespan unless you go into high cost Jars. which have a life expectancy of 50 years with reasonable care. Those are what I bought for my last solar system in the states.Each battery is 18"dia. 24" high and weigh 340 pounds.

[Kan Win]

Thank you KevinN for your prompt reply.

I do remember reading your comments on Thaivisa.com about this topic, but did not book-maker the URL or copy your writing on that Fred.

As I remember reading somewhere, that some of the components Kan be and/or are mined in Thailand and that the Thai’s have developed a much better Solar Panel than the Japanese, by 5% or so, some time back.

Still waiting to see which company will product these panels at a much cheaper price than imported ones.

What I do have Kevin is a couple or three air-cons, and the normal household things like a fridge for beer etc. Microwave unit, lights of course, Computer, T.V. and UBS, which is a must up-country, hot water heater ((a little one for the shower and for one sink. (Same heater)).

Qus..

With the space which I have around the house, nobody uses apart from the odd wild life, snakes, wild cats etc.., Kan one put these panels down on the concrete path which is there already ? and/or stand the panels against the walls of half of my house outside, as the sun rises at both of these sides but falls on only one side. Meaning, East side and North East side mornings and then the sun set West North side of my path. Sorry, but does that make any sense ? hope it does ?

One Kan build a semi cellar for the batteries to house them, so that is not a problem unless it floods, then would it be one ?

With that sort of an investment, when would you think one Kan Win ? or should one keep on being on the main “Grid”. With these Panels one should not have any power cuts then ?

Just me thinking out loud.

[george]

Solar panels are supposed to be attached to the roof, for obvious reasons (flooding, kids, dogs etc.)

[ka12345]

It can't just replace the current energy sources but solar energy (and protection from it) can still be put to use to reduce the need for fossil-fuel generated electricity.

Examples:

* Shower heaters - store hot water in a flat black tank on the roof. Not a silver colored cylindrical one that reflects away the heat. That will remove or reduce need for any 6kW boilers. (and no more shocks because the 'electrician' mixed live with ground).

* Slap a huge penalty tax on A/C installations in houses with no insulation and/or single glass windows. This is by far the biggest waste of energy in TH as almost all buildings lack insulation and almost all windows are just single glass. After a couple of years, the penalty tax can be scrapped as most homeowners will realize that insulating the walls will slash their electricity bills in half.

* Cool the outside heat exchanger of the AC with water instead of air wherever water is available (klongs, ponds, ground water...). The big cooling fans make sense if there is no water available, otherwise it takes a lot less energy to cool with water instead of air.

[KevinN]

KAN WIN Solar panels should be installed on the roof so they face the most sunny part of the day,they will not work if the sun is not shining directly at the face and it should not hit them at an angle,therefore to get max output,you need a solar tracker to keep them facing the sun and a rack adjustment for different times of the year to face the azimuth and zenith of the sun.

Hot water heaters can be built with your coils in a black lined box with a glass covered face,then water can be brought up to 350 deg. F. with a circulating pump to transfer heated water to an insulated tank for storage.

Insulated building blocks are not easy to find here and to get a contractor that even knows how to install insulation is a real job,and i couldn't find anyone that knows how to make thermal pane windows. But I did see some insulated blocks down at HOME MART the other day,do not know how efficient they are.

Eco-block is available in the USA but do not have them here,and they are listed as an international co. they will only deliver to a west coast port and to get them here is up to you,so that is about out.

I think that the news of Thai panels being more efficient is like the news of being the Detroit of the east,and a lot of other things you hear,you gotta show me.

But 4-6 amps per panel is about the max output of a panel is about as good as you will ever find,unless the panels are huge and that will not be but a few hours a day.

Even with a large bank of battery's.you will never want to draw down more than 20% of the banks rated storage cap. and like I said,I had phone jars,a 12V bank for just lights and a TV weighed 1 ton--6 batt.cells at 340 pounds per cell and would take a max of 200 amps charging rate.with a max capacity of 2000 amps hrs. I could have worked the bank harder,but that would cut down the life of the bank.

I only know what I have experienced,so i might be wrong on some things,but that is the info as of a few years ago,but you might be able to get better info from www.nwes.com,, and is owned by a guy named ROB in Bonners Ferry Idaho and he is the best and most honest dealer I know.

well I have to get to my volunteer job so will be back this evening.

[KevinN]

If you are interested,I can draw you up a set of plans to build your own solar tracker rack.

It is built to hold as many panels as you want and the panels run north and south and face and rotate east and west,you use a hydraulic cyl. to power the rack and freon for power, have your freon cyl. so that the suns moves,it hits the freon cyl and warms it,and the rack rotates til it is in the shade of a panel and stops and sets there til the sun is again on the freon cyl,then in the morning,you return to east facing panels or set up another power device to return it as the sun hits it.and it goes thru it again,,full power all day and as the seasons change,you tilt the rack to the suns zenith.

not very complicated,but keeps you busy thinking and building things to get more out of your solar array.

Now as to batterys, With golf cart or marine deep cycle batts.You can expect 2 or 3 years out of them,they will not last long,and with telephone jars or batts. built for solar power of homes,you will get many more years,but cost more,with the jars I had,I could expect about 50 years with reasonable good care,they were 12 years old when I bought them and had never had water added and did not gas below 15.3 volts on the bank,and I had my charging set at 15.

[Kan Win]

KevinN…

Thank you for your input and to you all on this Fred.

Alas, I shall wait and see what develops is our solar (panel) world.

Yours as always….

Kan Win

[stevehaigh]

so what does "Science Ministry calls for promotion of solar energy" really mean? any discounts or rebates on solar panels, etc?

in california, PG&E (the power company) buys back solar power in the day so you don't need batteries (but you have to be on the grid of course?).

does anyone know where can I buy solar panels, preferable in the Chiang Mai area or anywhere for that matter. how much would i expect to pay for say 1kW?

also, there was a mention of solar powered A/C without the need for electricity I think. how does that work, does anyone have a design or any experience?

thanks steve

[Khun Jean]

I am planning to build a house in the near future and want it to be as energy efficient as possible.

Have no plans drawn yet but am doing some reseach and thinking what i would like.

Sofar for heating and cooling i come up with the idea of using solarpower to pump water to the roof which will then evaporate and make the roof cooler.

Black coils to heat water and store it for later use.

Store water to cool the external heatexchangers of the airconditioners to be used at night.

Is it concievable to use a waterbasin on a higher level to be used as a "battery"?

Anyone have some information how big that has to be to supply enough energy for a small home. I hope i don't have to build a dam.

Is it a good idea to use 12 volt for the lighting inside the house or is that not possible because the wiring?

I am positive that in a country with so much "heat" there should be a way to use that "energy" somehow.

[KevinN]

The solar power system consists of 24 solar panels mounted in three passive solar trackers that use the sun's own heat to track it throughout the daylight hours. The direct current from the panels is routed to a commercially purchased power panel that contains several electronic components -- inverters that convert the direct current into alternating current to power the house and chargers that keep a bank of 32 high-capacity batteries charged up to power the house during the night and when weather conditions block the sun."

Now that is from somewhere else,but tells what is needed to run a home.

You could do without battery bank if you had grid power to use at night or cloudy weather, but that big a system would require an initial investment of $30,000+ for just panels and trackers.but you could run it back thru your meter to reduce costs to EGAT.

Using a water pool for a battery is not a very good idea as you will need a lot of water,at a high elevation to run a pelton wheel to generate the power needed at night and it is not feasible to take the power to pump the water up as that will take more power than you would realize from it. and you will need your panels to power your house.

Electric reefers are not practical on solar systems,always use propane fired heavy energy use appliances,such as reefers and cloths driers and cook stoves.