Elderly Dane Found Murdered In His Home

[wolfmanjack]

In the USA you can be held for 48 hours without any charges being made. this should allow enough time for the forensics team to check finger prints etc. As another poster said you can be held on suspicion of murder pending investigation if they think you are a flight risk.

Rubbish.

the police can detain you for interigation only. once the interigation is over they need to charge you. if they dont charge you you can go free untill they do charge you. in the USA you can not arrest someone with out charging them.

they can ask you "not to leave town" as you may be needed for further questioning, bu they dont keep you locked up unless the press charges.

in Thailand its the same. after your interview is over the police must have some evidence to press charges if they dont they need to let you go.

HighDiver,

I do not know where you are from but you do not know much about the USA legal system. This is a quote from the American Bar Association. If you do not know what that is i suggest you look it up.

How long may police hold suspects before filing charges?

If the police have probable cause to believe a person has committed a crime but have not yet brought formal charges, they may detain him or her in custody only for a short period of time (generally 24 to 48 hours). After this short period the police must release the person or bring formal charges and take him or her before a judge. However, he or she may be rearrested at a later date if the police obtain sufficient evidence.

you have proven my point exactly...

How have I proven your point ???? I said that the police in the USA can hold you for up to 48 hours without pressing charges. You came back and said RUBBISH. You also said that after the interrogation is over they have to either charge you or release you. Do you think any interrogation actually last 48 hours? I showed you where I was correct and now you are trying to say that we both are saying the same thing ?????

with out knowing anything about me you assume that i have no idea abou the US legal syatem. and this is the whole point that i was making. baseless assumptions.

however I totaly agree with you. you basicly quated what i said in the first place.

in the USA police can detain you and interigate you for up to 48 hours. not arrest, not lock up, and not jailed, they can only detain you for interigation. but once the interigation is over. and the police have no more questions for you then they bring formal charges or let you go. you dont sit around the police station waiting for the police to come up with new questions.

Sure you do. That is why they can hold you for up to 48 hours. So they can wait for forensics and check your alibi. Again do you think anyone goes through 48 hours of questioning? While you are being detained for 48 hours you sit in a jail cell except for when you are actually being questioned.

if they have new questions they can allways call you in again. it works the same in thailand.

Sure they can but the whole point of being able to hold them for 48 hours is to check the answers given in the initial interrogation and to wait for forensics reports to see if there is enough evidence to press charges. It is the only intelligent thing to do when someone is considered a flight risk in a murder case.

the point above was my response to the baseless opinion as to why the girl was realeased after interigation and not locked up.

We dont know why they released her it was not reported.

we do know from the report that she denies having anything to do with the case and the that police released her.

the police can still press charges and arrest her (lock up)in the future.

Sure they can if they can find her. no one let her of the hook yet. they just did not press charges yet.

if you read the original post you will see that some of the posters with out knowing the facts and based on this report have taken the liberty to make baseles assumptions and post judegement about the police and the girl. some have taken this liberty as far as analising the relations between them with out a shred of evidence.

there is a difference expressing views and thoughts based on facts and making one up.

I agree with you that some posters are the equivalent of a lynch party. I however I did not make any comment judging the girl. I only pointed out that the USA which has a constitution that guarantees the right of due process allows the police to detain you for 48 hours without pressing charges on the suspicion that the person has committed a crime. Would you agree that "probable cause to believe" would be the same as suspicion ?

The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. Then he was hit by the stick and he fell on the ground, hit the floor with his head which caused his death. The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.

The investigation team has collected all the finger prints as evidence and the forensic confirms that the Dane did not die by natural cause. But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.

The police was able to bring in Anong for questioning. She denies any involvcement in the death of her ex-husband. She was later released while the police awaits the forensic report in order to be able to to make an arrest based on solid evidence.

The above is quoted from the original post. It plainly states that the police suspect the woman of murdering the guy. It also states that they are waiting for the forensics report. Don't you think that it would have been justifiable for the police to detain her until the forensics report is finished so they can see if her DNA or finger prints are on the walking stick ??? As long as the detainment is for a relatively short period of ? Say up to 48 hours and no longer ??

[highdiver]

In the USA .

Rubbish.

the police can detain you for interigation only. once the interigation is over they need to charge you. if they dont charge you you can go free untill they do charge you. in the USA you can not arrest someone with out charging them.

they can ask you "not to leave town" as you may be needed for further questioning, bu they dont keep you locked up unless the press charges.

in Thailand its the same. after your interview is over the police must have some evidence to press charges if they dont they need to let you go.

HighDiver,

I do not know where you are from but you do not know much about the USA legal system. This is a quote from the American Bar Association. If you do not know what that is i suggest you look it up.

How long may police hold suspects before filing charges?

If the police have probable cause to believe a person has committed a crime but have not yet brought formal charges, they may detain him or her in custody only for a short period of time (generally 24 to 48 hours). After this short period the police must release the person or bring formal charges and take him or her before a judge. However, he or she may be rearrested at a later date if the police obtain sufficient evidence.

you have proven my point exactly...

How have I proven your point ???? I said that the police in the USA can hold you for up to 48 hours without pressing charges. You came back and said RUBBISH. You also said that after the interrogation is over they have to either charge you or release you. Do you think any interrogation actually last 48 hours? I showed you where I was correct and now you are trying to say that we both are saying the same thing ?????

no your intial post said "you can be held for 48 hours without any charges being made. this should allow enough time for the forensics team to check finger prints etc. As another poster said you can be held on suspicion of murder pending investigation if they think you are a flight risk"

and that is not the same as detaing for interigation or questioning. if they press charges they have to bring you before a judge with in 48 hours to detrmine bail or non bail. if you are interegated and there are not pressing charges you can leave.

so as you see its not same.

with out knowing anything about me you assume that i have no idea abou the US legal syatem. and this is the whole point that i was making. baseless assumptions.

however I totaly agree with you. you basicly quated what i said in the first place.

in the USA police can detain you and interigate you for up to 48 hours. not arrest, not lock up, and not jailed, they can only detain you for interigation. but once the interigation is over. and the police have no more questions for you then they bring formal charges or let you go. you dont sit around the police station waiting for the police to come up with new questions.

Sure you do. That is why they can hold you for up to 48 hours. So they can wait for forensics and check your alibi. Again do you think anyone goes through 48 hours of questioning? While you are being detained for 48 hours you sit in a jail cell except for when you are actually being questioned.

again you are wrong only if they arrest you by pressing charges they have the 48 hours. you know like in the police movies. they advise the suspect that he is arrested for murder... and read him his rights and then they have 48 hours. but if they dont press charges you can walk out.

if they have new questions they can allways call you in again. it works the same in thailand.

Sure they can but the whole point of being able to hold them for 48 hours is to check the answers given in the initial interrogation and to wait for forensics reports to see if there is enough evidence to press charges. It is the only intelligent thing to do when someone is considered a flight risk in a murder case.

only if they press chages or accuse you of something I think you are confusing pressing charges and with interigation and questioning.

the point above was my response to the baseless opinion as to why the girl was realeased after interigation and not locked up.

We dont know why they released her it was not reported.

we do know from the report that she denies having anything to do with the case and the that police released her.

the police can still press charges and arrest her (lock up)in the future.

Sure they can if they can find her. no one let her of the hook yet. they just did not press charges yet.

if you read the original post you will see that some of the posters with out knowing the facts and based on this report have taken the liberty to make baseles assumptions and post judegement about the police and the girl. some have taken this liberty as far as analising the relations between them with out a shred of evidence.

there is a difference expressing views and thoughts based on facts and making one up.

I agree with you that some posters are the equivalent of a lynch party. I however I did not make any comment judging the girl. I only pointed out that the USA which has a constitution that guarantees the right of due process allows the police to detain you for 48 hours without pressing charges on the suspicion that the person has committed a crime. Would you agree that "probable cause to believe" would be the same as suspicion ?

Yes I agree and as I said they only interigated her and let her go. We dont know why? it can be argued if she should have been arrested or not but as we dont know the facts its useless. maybe the police did not have a "probable cause to believe" that would demand arrest.

The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. Then he was hit by the stick and he fell on the ground, hit the floor with his head which caused his death. The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.

The investigation team has collected all the finger prints as evidence and the forensic confirms that the Dane did not die by natural cause. But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.

The police was able to bring in Anong for questioning. She denies any involvcement in the death of her ex-husband. She was later released while the police awaits the forensic report in order to be able to to make an arrest based on solid evidence.

The above is quoted from the original post. It plainly states that the police suspect the woman of murdering the guy. It also states that they are waiting for the forensics report. Don't you think that it would have been justifiable for the police to detain her until the forensics report is finished so they can see if her DNA or finger prints are on the walking stick ??? As long as the detainment is for a relatively short period of ? Say up to 48 hours and no longer ??

I dont know as i was not there and form the post it seems that the police have let her go as they did not have grounds for arrest. they did not publish what was her interegation or the reason they let her go. the post just said they released her.

as such the posts regaring the the police are wrong arresting her are baseles acusations.

I hope that the plice will find the guilty one and i hope that the process will be done properly.

.

[navajo]

This photo is the portrait of Paul During

taken from his Thai drivers license.

71 Year Old Dane Murdered in Chiangmai

CHIANG MAI: -- A 71 year old Danish resident of Chiang Mai in Northern Thailand, Paul During, was on 25 May 2007 found murdered in his home.

The Dane was found by the neighbours who earlier in the day had heard him fight with a woman, possibly a former girlfriend who had apparantly come back to ask for a car, he had bought in her name.

The body of the Dane was found in his one story house in Tatan south of the city centre near the Ping River which he had rented for the past three years.

He was found naked near the door to the terrace with a broken nose and the back of his neck was swollen. There was sign of blood in the house an there was blood and hair on a walking stick, which the police has taken as evidence.

Police Officer Tennik Jansee from ChangPeuk police station in Chaingmai investigated the murdered said that there was also a hole in the door of the Dane's bedroom and the keyhole was damaged.

The Nissan pick-up truck was found parked in the garage unlock, the cabinet in the front of the car was open. The police checked the license and the car belongs to Anong Chaiyawut, 52 years from Chiangmai.

According to neighbors the Dane has been living in this house for about three years with Anong and bought her the car. Later, Anong broke up with him and move in with another foreigner. After that, the Dane brought a woman named .June to live in the house with him. Before the incident, June had gone back to visit her birthplace and it was during her absence, that Anong came by and asked for the keys to the car. But the Dane refused to give it to her and they could hear they had a fight about this before there was suddenly silence.

The neighbor found it strange and went in to see and found the Dane lying naked on the floor, dead.

The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. Then he was hit by the stick and he fell on the ground, hit the floor with his head which caused his death. The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.

The investigation team has collected all the finger prints as evidence and the forensic confirms that the Dane did not die by natural cause. But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.

The police was able to bring in Anong for questioning. She denies any involvcement in the death of her ex-husband. She was later released while the police awaits the forensic report in order to be able to to make an arrest based on solid evidence.

- Scandasia 2007-05-26

[ThaiFelix]

So let me get this straight... if I get shooved off the 10th story of a building, and say I die. The cause of death will be ruled, that I hit my head on the concrete and thus died? But the fact that someone caused me to hit my head will not be labeled as murder??

######.. who needs a hit man..

The person who wrote the news article obviously has a good, but limited ability with English. Still it says :"The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. "

The bit that follows was poorly written, but it clearly states that she is suspected of murdering him.

It doesn't matter whether a Thai is suspected of murdering or attacking a farang, or a farang is believed to have murdered or attacked a Thai... On the ThaiVisa message board the Thai will automatically be guilty based on nothing more than a poorly written, second hand news article (and often even less evidence than that) and the farang will always be the victim or else he will have been justified in what he did because of provocation.

Of course On TV, almost all the articles reported involve Thai on farang violence. The daily reports in Pattaya of farang violence seem not to be newsworthy.

Why not more stories like this:

A young Scottish national was drunk and driving a Honda Jazz car around Pattaya on 1st April. At approximately 3.30 am he hit a Thai man who works as a garbage collector leaving the man scarred for life.

The Dongtan police received a report early on Sunday morning from staff from a 7-Eleven stores on Jomtien Beach Soi 13 that an accident between a car and a local garbage truck occurred in front of the store and there was someone seriously injured at the scene.

On arrival the team found that the Honda Jazz car, driven by drunken Mr. Gordon James McCarry, aged 24, from Scotland, smashed into the rear of the garbage truck when the injured was standing behind the truck collecting garbage.

The injured man was crying in pain. He is aged around 50 and could not give any statement other than cry. Both his legs were chopped off from the hit and he had lost a lot of blood. The team had to quickly bandage his legs together and sent him to the hospital.

As for McCarry; he could not give any statement either since he was completely drunk. The officers measured up to 211 milligrams percent in him, which is way over the limit of 50 milligrams according to Thai law.

Probably the response would be that the garbage collector was not collecting garbage in a farang approved manner.

In the proper TV style, I'll speculate that McCarry's family bought his way out of this by giving the poor man's family some pittance. I don't know that that's true, but making wild accusations based on personal prejudices is sure fun, isn't it?

Kaojai thank you! I thought I was alone out here. How many times have we read a news report and had the whole story turned around the next day. And the lynch-mob well....there's egg in ya face!!

My sincere condolences to the family....a tragic loss.

[navajo]

Possible facts:

1. neighbors heard yelling.

2. wifey pooh came back for the automobile and no doubt doubt demands money

3. Poor old hubby was no doubt murdered in his sleep after she banged him.

Is their sufficient motive...hmmmmmmmmmmmm/

4. Do they actually perform autopsys here?

5.Of course the way police reason based on the history of these types of cases, it must be a suicide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lets see if history repeats itself.

1. Farrang has a fight with Mrs. X bar girl; now his ole lady. She calls the police, he goes to jail, and is extorted for money by wife, police, his attorney, the prosecuting attorney, and the no doubt the judge; a 3 way split. wifey is no doubt out banging some

one new.

2. Mrs. Bar Girl beats the piss out a farrang during a domestic argument, pulls a knife and stabbs the poor s.o.b.

He calls the police on her, and he still goes to jail, and is extorted for money from the wife, police, his attorney,

the prosecuting attorney, and no doubt the judge; a 3 way split; wifey is no doubt banging someone new.

,

Now folks I ask you, whats wrong with this picture. Ans: The farrang lives in Thailand.

[ThaiFelix]

***But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.***

If you hit somebody with a stick and they hit the floor and die it is murder. What part of this is unclear?

So by corrolory...you push someone off the balcony is not murder as you did not kill them the fall did...

The medical investigation is used to determine Manner of death, i.e. Blunt Force Trauma and Cause Of Death i.e. Homicide. Not to protect her, but say she hit the man, blunt force trauma, but she did not hit him hard enough or without intent to kill him, yet when he fell THAT action caused him to die it could change how the case is prosecuted. Sure, it is still a homicide which basically means a human killing another human, but it can help or hurt her court case based on her intent. Thats based on the law in the States. I don't know if is the same in Thailand.

If you accidently hit a pedestrian while driving and they die because of their injuries, in essence you killed someone. Would you want it automatically prosecuted as a homicide? In fact it is vehicular homicide, you killed another human or caused their death, yet accidentally. I know it sounds messed up, but thats how they write the laws. So, thats why they have an investigation and collect evidence to prosecute the case.

Yeah that makes sense. Very well written/explained.

[navajo]

John1012,

Don't commit any more funds than you must, treat life here as simply benefitting from the advantages (cheap, sunshine, girls) and able to leave without loosing too much if one day it should be necessary.

The playing field is so anti-foreigner in all apsects of financial, social, and legal life that to move even 1 nest egg more than necessary from your home countries basket to Thailand is an unnecessary step too far.

Play them at their own game, as the more you either invest or gamble here the poorer you will eventually be in 95% of cases. Be clever.....think to yourself, if I was deported tomorrow could I live comfortably back home and could I accept the financial loss on assets and savings in Thailand? if the answer is always Yes, then you have it about right.

I would strongly advise anyone to wait and see reality before going head over heels bonkers. At every bend in the road there is a new reality or hoop to jump through. Clever people don't commit to Thailand, they just play here.

Very wise John

[navajo]

Case goes to trial:

1. wife pooh says neighbors didn't hear them arguing.

2. they were both watching one of those violent, knock me down, shootem up bang, bang Thai soap operas. thats what the

neighbors heard.

3. Hubby can't testify coz he is deader than a door nail.

4. Wifey pooh gets the car, gets the house, gets all the belongings and goes back to her old Thai lover and they live happily

ever after.

5. After 3 years of being together, he gets tired of her. she finds him with another thai lady. They both have a knock down,

violent fight and end up killing each other; a happy ending.

6. The police report calls it a double suicide.

[navajo]

I feel really sorry for the old guy that finished his life that way. RIP...

Which was the point of this thread that many have lost sight of. This poor man was bashed to death. Sad and awful. Avoidable? Maybe. But lets face reality, we have all made foolish choices and stupid mistakes. Hindsight is 20/20 and its easy to look at this poor man's life and death and say he should have known better.

When the sad fact is he paid for his mistakes with his life and an awful death. Condolences to his family.

[navajo]

She is free because she is Thai. The policeman that murded those British couple, he went free, and he because he is Thai and this is Thailand. My guess is there have been 1000s of cases like this, and there will no doubt 1000s more until the international media keeps getting hammered with stories like this. There are a lot of benefits about living here, but according to my list of benefits since I have been here, they do not outweigh the injustices here. And quite frankly, there are other countries other than Thailand that are indeed better in this asian region. What we have here is a kangaroo country, kangaroo laws, kangaroo police, and kangaroo courts.

[highdiver]

So let me get this straight... if I get shooved off the 10th story of a building, and say I die. The cause of death will be ruled, that I hit my head on the concrete and thus died? But the fact that someone caused me to hit my head will not be labeled as murder??

######.. who needs a hit man..

The person who wrote the news article obviously has a good, but limited ability with English. Still it says :"The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. "

The bit that follows was poorly written, but it clearly states that she is suspected of murdering him.

It doesn't matter whether a Thai is suspected of murdering or attacking a farang, or a farang is believed to have murdered or attacked a Thai... On the ThaiVisa message board the Thai will automatically be guilty based on nothing more than a poorly written, second hand news article (and often even less evidence than that) and the farang will always be the victim or else he will have been justified in what he did because of provocation.

Of course On TV, almost all the articles reported involve Thai on farang violence. The daily reports in Pattaya of farang violence seem not to be newsworthy.

Why not more stories like this:

A young Scottish national was drunk and driving a Honda Jazz car around Pattaya on 1st April. At approximately 3.30 am he hit a Thai man who works as a garbage collector leaving the man scarred for life.

The Dongtan police received a report early on Sunday morning from staff from a 7-Eleven stores on Jomtien Beach Soi 13 that an accident between a car and a local garbage truck occurred in front of the store and there was someone seriously injured at the scene.

On arrival the team found that the Honda Jazz car, driven by drunken Mr. Gordon James McCarry, aged 24, from Scotland, smashed into the rear of the garbage truck when the injured was standing behind the truck collecting garbage.

The injured man was crying in pain. He is aged around 50 and could not give any statement other than cry. Both his legs were chopped off from the hit and he had lost a lot of blood. The team had to quickly bandage his legs together and sent him to the hospital.

As for McCarry; he could not give any statement either since he was completely drunk. The officers measured up to 211 milligrams percent in him, which is way over the limit of 50 milligrams according to Thai law.

Probably the response would be that the garbage collector was not collecting garbage in a farang approved manner.

In the proper TV style, I'll speculate that McCarry's family bought his way out of this by giving the poor man's family some pittance. I don't know that that's true, but making wild accusations based on personal prejudices is sure fun, isn't it?

Kaojai thank you! I thought I was alone out here. How many times have we read a news report and had the whole story turned around the next day. And the lynch-mob well....there's egg in ya face!!

My sincere condolences to the family....a tragic loss.

I second that. thank you for your post.

kaojai seems to realy understand.

[qualtrough]

She is free because she is Thai. The policeman that murded those British couple, he went free, and he because he is Thai and this is Thailand. My guess is there have been 1000s of cases like this, and there will no doubt 1000s more until the international media keeps getting hammered with stories like this. There are a lot of benefits about living here, but according to my list of benefits since I have been here, they do not outweigh the injustices here. And quite frankly, there are other countries other than Thailand that are indeed better in this asian region. What we have here is a kangaroo country, kangaroo laws, kangaroo police, and kangaroo courts.

Sorry, the information I have seen is that he was found guilty and is in jail. If you have solid information showing that he was found innocent or is not in jail please share it with us.

1000s? Please do a little research and share info on 50 over the last couple of years. Good luck!

Edited May 29, 2007 by qualtrough

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

She is free because she is Thai. The policeman that murded those British couple, he went free, and he because he is Thai and this is Thailand. My guess is there have been 1000s of cases like this, and there will no doubt 1000s more until the international media keeps getting hammered with stories like this. There are a lot of benefits about living here, but according to my list of benefits since I have been here, they do not outweigh the injustices here. And quite frankly, there are other countries other than Thailand that are indeed better in this asian region. What we have here is a kangaroo country, kangaroo laws, kangaroo police, and kangaroo courts.

Sorry, the information I have seen is that he was found guilty and is in jail. If you have solid information showing that he was found innocent or is not in jail please share it with us.

1000s? Please do a little research and share info on 50 over the last couple of years. Good luck!

From the BBC in 2006:

"Off-duty policeman Somchai Wisetsingh, 40, was jailed for life last year, and on Tuesday lost a sentence appeal. But Ms Arscott's father said Wisetsingh's non-appearance raised suspicions he had already been freed.

Miss Arscott and Mr Lloyd's families have received reports that the policeman has been spotted outside Ratchaburi prison, western Thailand."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/5097332.stm

The article goes on to say Thai authorities insist he is still in prison but there has been no independent confirmation.

[meemiathai]

She is free because she is Thai. The policeman that murded those British couple, he went free, and he because he is Thai and this is Thailand. My guess is there have been 1000s of cases like this, and there will no doubt 1000s more until the international media keeps getting hammered with stories like this. There are a lot of benefits about living here, but according to my list of benefits since I have been here, they do not outweigh the injustices here. And quite frankly, there are other countries other than Thailand that are indeed better in this asian region. What we have here is a kangaroo country, kangaroo laws, kangaroo police, and kangaroo courts.

Sorry, the information I have seen is that he was found guilty and is in jail. If you have solid information showing that he was found innocent or is not in jail please share it with us.

1000s? Please do a little research and share info on 50 over the last couple of years. Good luck!

From the BBC in 2006:

"Off-duty policeman Somchai Wisetsingh, 40, was jailed for life last year, and on Tuesday lost a sentence appeal. But Ms Arscott's father said Wisetsingh's non-appearance raised suspicions he had already been freed.

Miss Arscott and Mr Lloyd's families have received reports that the policeman has been spotted outside Ratchaburi prison, western Thailand."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/5097332.stm

The article goes on to say Thai authorities insist he is still in prison but there has been no independent confirmation.

Why the UK government is not doing anything? I don't understand.

[epicstuff]

Thankfully, I married a Thai girl studying dentistry in Sydney. OK ... all dentists are sadists! My wife and I both know that .... but putting her career choice aside, she's a wonderful girl. And we manage to surround ourselves with beautiful people - friends and family.

yes, it's generally true, you marry a bar girl, and that's the package you get. In comparison; if a guy were looking for a live-in au-pair for his kids, you'd think he might do some research on the prospective gal. However, if a guy gets all excited for a young smiling miss, he tosses caution to the wind. On the other side of the equation, someone like Virgil finds a college-trained lass and marries her - there's still a chance she could leave him and take as much as she can in the process - as women from all walks of life are known to do. Plus, you can bet a man in Virgil's situation is paying daily for having his dream girl stay around - serious amounts of money going to her and her Thai family on an on-going basis. If the payments dried up, how much longer would she keep staying with the old guy?

No Brahmburgers, I don't pay and I don't take kindly to your opinion that I do. My wife's family is middle class and her parents are well educated. The whole family has a westernised outlook on Thai life. My wife does give money to cousins, etc and she hates it. In fact, we tend to travel abroad during Songkran and other festivals to avoid having to give handouts. I am gainfully employed in an international company here. Most of our savings are invested in Australia. My personal view: any ex-pat who is funding his wife's family is married to the wrong girl ... or stark raving mad ... or both. You should all stop paying. Right now. Would you pay if you were married to an American, English or Australian woman? Then why pay in Thailand? Because it is Thai culture? What about your culture?

There's a chance that ANY woman could leave ANY man ANYWHERE in the world. Neither of us married for money. We are both of similar economic standing. Both of us are tired of the stereotypical response that we must be paying money. It simply isn't true.

Oh, and as to being old Brahmburgers .... I'm 39 and my wife is 37. I don't know how old you are, but we don't feel that old.

Virgil, Out!

Ok I too am in a similar position to you I'm 39 my wife b37 , I too dont send money back to the family and am not expected to .. We're the lucky ones .

It doesnt mean those that do are stupid. more so it means you are ignorant of the cultruel values here. The whole society works on different values creating its own balance , those that live here who fight that balance will create problems for themselves. If they have any respect of the position their wife would be in if they're forced to abandon the traditional thai values. how wouldthey look and make there family look? their place in society and the respect given to them from piers.

[sriracha john]

So let me get this straight... if I get shooved off the 10th story of a building, and say I die. The cause of death will be ruled, that I hit my head on the concrete and thus died? But the fact that someone caused me to hit my head will not be labeled as murder??

######.. who needs a hit man..

The person who wrote the news article obviously has a good, but limited ability with English. Still it says :"The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. "

The bit that follows was poorly written, but it clearly states that she is suspected of murdering him.

It doesn't matter whether a Thai is suspected of murdering or attacking a farang, or a farang is believed to have murdered or attacked a Thai... On the ThaiVisa message board the Thai will automatically be guilty based on nothing more than a poorly written, second hand news article (and often even less evidence than that) and the farang will always be the victim or else he will have been justified in what he did because of provocation.

Of course On TV, almost all the articles reported involve Thai on farang violence. The daily reports in Pattaya of farang violence seem not to be newsworthy.

Why not more stories like this:

A young Scottish national was drunk and driving a Honda Jazz car around Pattaya on 1st April. At approximately 3.30 am he hit a Thai man who works as a garbage collector leaving the man scarred for life.

The Dongtan police received a report early on Sunday morning from staff from a 7-Eleven stores on Jomtien Beach Soi 13 that an accident between a car and a local garbage truck occurred in front of the store and there was someone seriously injured at the scene.

On arrival the team found that the Honda Jazz car, driven by drunken Mr. Gordon James McCarry, aged 24, from Scotland, smashed into the rear of the garbage truck when the injured was standing behind the truck collecting garbage.

The injured man was crying in pain. He is aged around 50 and could not give any statement other than cry. Both his legs were chopped off from the hit and he had lost a lot of blood. The team had to quickly bandage his legs together and sent him to the hospital.

As for McCarry; he could not give any statement either since he was completely drunk. The officers measured up to 211 milligrams percent in him, which is way over the limit of 50 milligrams according to Thai law.

Probably the response would be that the garbage collector was not collecting garbage in a farang approved manner.

In the proper TV style, I'll speculate that McCarry's family bought his way out of this by giving the poor man's family some pittance. I don't know that that's true, but making wild accusations based on personal prejudices is sure fun, isn't it?

Kaojai thank you! I thought I was alone out here. How many times have we read a news report and had the whole story turned around the next day. And the lynch-mob well....there's egg in ya face!!

My sincere condolences to the family....a tragic loss.

Shame that you and following posters missed this response to KaoJai from earlier in the the thread...

So let me get this straight... if I get shooved off the 10th story of a building, and say I die. The cause of death will be ruled, that I hit my head on the concrete and thus died? But the fact that someone caused me to hit my head will not be labeled as murder??

######.. who needs a hit man..

It doesn't matter whether a Thai is suspected of murdering or attacking a farang, or a farang is believed to have murdered or attacked a Thai... On the ThaiVisa message board the Thai will automatically be guilty based on nothing more than a poorly written, second hand news article (and often even less evidence than that) and the farang will always be the victim or else he will have been justified in what he did because of provocation.

Of course On TV, almost all the articles reported involve Thai on farang violence. The daily reports in Pattaya of farang violence seem not to be newsworthy.

Why not more stories like this:

A young Scottish national was drunk and driving a Honda Jazz car around Pattaya on 1st April. At approximately 3.30 am he hit a Thai man who works as a garbage collector leaving the man scarred for life.

Next time, consider trying something like this:

1. Locate Search option in upper, right hand corner

2. Type in a Key Word from the article... for example, in this case, the accused's name: McCarry

3. Read the results

4. Join in the discussion

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1141694

Probably the response would be that the garbage collector was not collecting garbage in a farang approved manner.

You'll look a little less silly if you do a simple search before slagging off on the forum... If you read that thread, I think you'll find that there was a large amount of outrage appropriately expressed there.

Edited May 29, 2007 by sriracha john

[wolfmanjack]

She is free because she is Thai. The policeman that murded those British couple, he went free, and he because he is Thai and this is Thailand. My guess is there have been 1000s of cases like this, and there will no doubt 1000s more until the international media keeps getting hammered with stories like this. There are a lot of benefits about living here, but according to my list of benefits since I have been here, they do not outweigh the injustices here. And quite frankly, there are other countries other than Thailand that are indeed better in this asian region. What we have here is a kangaroo country, kangaroo laws, kangaroo police, and kangaroo courts.

Sorry, the information I have seen is that he was found guilty and is in jail. If you have solid information showing that he was found innocent or is not in jail please share it with us.

1000s? Please do a little research and share info on 50 over the last couple of years. Good luck!

From the BBC in 2006:

"Off-duty policeman Somchai Wisetsingh, 40, was jailed for life last year, and on Tuesday lost a sentence appeal. But Ms Arscott's father said Wisetsingh's non-appearance raised suspicions he had already been freed.

Miss Arscott and Mr Lloyd's families have received reports that the policeman has been spotted outside Ratchaburi prison, western Thailand."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/5097332.stm

The article goes on to say Thai authorities insist he is still in prison but there has been no independent confirmation.

I am told that some prison "wardens" allow the wealthy to pay another thai (and the warden) to take their place in prison. Any one else know anything about this ?

I also know one falang that went to dinner with a police officer while he was supposed to be sitting in jail. Also this guy had a cooler full of beer and a girl come sleep with him every night in his jail cell. This one I know for a fact. I saw it with my own eyes when I visited him in jail.

[meemiathai]

Thankfully, I married a Thai girl studying dentistry in Sydney. OK ... all dentists are sadists! My wife and I both know that .... but putting her career choice aside, she's a wonderful girl. And we manage to surround ourselves with beautiful people - friends and family.

yes, it's generally true, you marry a bar girl, and that's the package you get. In comparison; if a guy were looking for a live-in au-pair for his kids, you'd think he might do some research on the prospective gal. However, if a guy gets all excited for a young smiling miss, he tosses caution to the wind. On the other side of the equation, someone like Virgil finds a college-trained lass and marries her - there's still a chance she could leave him and take as much as she can in the process - as women from all walks of life are known to do. Plus, you can bet a man in Virgil's situation is paying daily for having his dream girl stay around - serious amounts of money going to her and her Thai family on an on-going basis. If the payments dried up, how much longer would she keep staying with the old guy?

No Brahmburgers, I don't pay and I don't take kindly to your opinion that I do. My wife's family is middle class and her parents are well educated. The whole family has a westernised outlook on Thai life. My wife does give money to cousins, etc and she hates it. In fact, we tend to travel abroad during Songkran and other festivals to avoid having to give handouts. I am gainfully employed in an international company here. Most of our savings are invested in Australia. My personal view: any ex-pat who is funding his wife's family is married to the wrong girl ... or stark raving mad ... or both. You should all stop paying. Right now. Would you pay if you were married to an American, English or Australian woman? Then why pay in Thailand? Because it is Thai culture? What about your culture?

There's a chance that ANY woman could leave ANY man ANYWHERE in the world. Neither of us married for money. We are both of similar economic standing. Both of us are tired of the stereotypical response that we must be paying money. It simply isn't true.

Oh, and as to being old Brahmburgers .... I'm 39 and my wife is 37. I don't know how old you are, but we don't feel that old.

Virgil, Out!

Ok I too am in a similar position to you I'm 39 my wife b37 , I too dont send money back to the family and am not expected to .. We're the lucky ones .

It doesnt mean those that do are stupid. more so it means you are ignorant of the cultruel values here. The whole society works on different values creating its own balance , those that live here who fight that balance will create problems for themselves. If they have any respect of the position their wife would be in if they're forced to abandon the traditional thai values. how wouldthey look and make there family look? their place in society and the respect given to them from piers.

Well, I will pay even if I was married to an American, English or Australian woman if her family needs it. It is natural for me to do so. My wife does send money back to her family. Will you do that to your own mother? I am not sure though if the money is mine or hers. The money I have is ours, me and my wife.

I think I heard somewhere that Michael Owen bought houses for his family(brothers and sisters) in the UK. No?

So is that thing uique to thailand? Does Bill Gates give money to his parents?

[meemiathai]

Saddening that there's no local or national coverage of this news.

funny, i was just thinking the opposite: "why does every farang murdered in thailand merit headlines on thaivisa?"

plenty of thais are murdered in thailand each day, but nobody screams for their justice.

plenty of farangs are murdered outside thailand each day, yet nobody thinks each of those needs "national coverage" in other countries.

farangs in thailand... for some reason people think they're special.

I'm guessing that you are Thai for posting this, Did you not read who this forum is for ?

Scroll DOWN !

Thailand Expat Forum © 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 Thai Visa - thaivisa.com

THAILAND'S LEADING EXPATRIATE PORTAL

Post your "anti farang" comments to a Thai forum if your government allow you to do so !

this forum is indeed dedicated to the expatriate visiting or residing in thailand. its nice that there is a place to share ideas and thoughts with others.

no one has ever suggested that thailand is perfect, there is allways room for improvement however this is not a thai bashing forum. and some members are using this forum to spread racist anti Thai views, groundless accusations, baseless judgements and inflaming remarks about the Thai culture and thai people.

I will be very happy to debate any issue that I feel i can contribute to the disussion and we can even argue and . but there is no need to have offensive racist remarks or bashing remarks.

There are some members that just dont stop bitching and crying about how every thing is wrong with Thaialnd. nothing is good, everything corrupt and how the thai people are a bunch of infentile useless mob.

to those memebers who are not happy in thailand , I like others suggest. that if it is so bad then go to another country.

in any situation where you are a guest the minimum required is that you show respect to your host. if you dont like your host, his home, his culture, his way of thinking, or his way of life then LEAVE!!!

Very much agreed.

But it would be less fun or boring without the bashers. The anti-bashers will have no one to bash.

It is already quite difficult nowadays to find a thread I can whinge on the whingers here.

Im sick of this Thai Basher tag just because we stand up and voice our opinions. Sure, we love it here. yes, its sunny and lovely and mai pen rai etc etc blah blah blah.... Do we not have the right to express and highlight the obvious and clear wrongs in this sorry bloody country just because we are not born here? Should we ignore clear wrongs simply becasue its out choice to be here? The inteligence of posters here who seem to think some of us are 'Thai Bashers' can be qualified by your resounding and unified answer to this apparent negative attitude - if you dont like it, go home. How narrow minded and childish. Kinda like 'its my ball, im the captain'

Read some of the political debates going on in the news or general forums. Many posters there condem the current and (mostly) previous governments and managment of this country. I used to wonder why all the hippies out there did not jump on those threads and accuse posters of 'Thai Bashing' however now the reason is clear; the politics of Thailand are way too deep for you and you prefer instead to pounce on us folk who disagree with isolated injustices.

If you think you are reasonably critizing, you are being fair, then fine for me. No problem. No one is asking you to go home! I don't deny that there are a lot of negative things in thailand.

The ones we are calling to go home are those who: complain that the somtam lady does not speak english, complain about uneven pavements, says that all thai people are greedy and inmoral just because some are, mock on about everything that is thai, implying how superior their own culture is.....so on. (these are the thai bashers not those simply reasonably complaining!)

You are not denying that there are indeed a significant no. of these sort of arrogant farangs, are you, SKO?

[meemiathai]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...olk/6474569.stm

Bail extended in murder inquiry

A man arrested on suspicion of murdering five women in the Ipswich area of Suffolk has had his bail extended for three months.

Tom Stephens, 37, was arrested at his home in Trimley St Martin, near Felixstowe, on 18 December 2006.

It followed the discovery of the bodies of Gemma Adams, Anneli Alderton, Tania Nicol, Annette Nicholls and Paula Clennell between 2 and 12 December.

Steve Wright, 48, of Ipswich, has been charged with their murders.

So how is it different?

[Bagwan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/5097332.stm

Policeman of the Year? What did he do? Issue the most on the spot fines for imaginary offences?

Worried that he would escape? :D In chains? So the RTP couldn't foil any escape attempt?

[meemiathai]

Shouldn't the UK government be doing something if there is suspicion that the man has actually been freed?

Blame the UK government if they don't.

But of course if it is only rumours which we can hear all the time here on TV......

We don't lack rumours like these here on TV, do we?

[Ga-gai]

Poor old danish fellow. This story about his greedy wife really sucks.

I don't know the details in his case, where he found his wife in the first place etc. But it is really amzing how many farangs that actually do marries prostitutes and the lowest class women in this country. (not to mention what the officials at the immigration in BKK are thinking when they see those kind of couples) The average middle class thai really believes that farangs actually are crazy by marrying these kind of women. A decent thai male would NEVER marry a hooker. Would anyone of us actually marry a prostitute back in our own country? Never! But here in Thailand, it happens every day. Why?

As someone posted here earlier: -Stay away from the bargirls!

For many old, ugly, 3 broken marriages and hard-to-live-with male westerners coming here, the-easy-to-get prostituted women somehow seems to fullfill that dream of a young beautiful (and sexy) woman that they never would be able to have back in their own country. But it all comes with a price. She DO NOT love him! He will only end up with a private prostitute.

The womans mind here, is not very different from a womans mind anywhere in the world. What a nice young good looking woman really wants, is a nice and young good looking man (or husband). Just like back in our own countries. If she is very poor, she have to take the next step. Marry a not so young and nice man that at least are able to help up her living.

And for living here in Thailand? Well I've been living here for over 6 years now. I really love this country and it's people. Some of them are good, some are bad. Just because you one day happened to meet someone that's bad, it doesn't mean that the rest of the country is bad. But that is the way it is, in whatever country you live in.

In my opinion, Thailand is probably one of the nicest and friendliest country to live in, around this part of the world. I've been doing travels to South Korea, and believe me... You really wouldn't want to move there. The Koreans are more or less open rascists. A korean father would never like to see his daughter to marry a westerner. They are also rough, unpolite and have no problems with bursting out yelling at you, if they got tired of not understanding you. Wherever you go, you won't see a single friendly smile looking at you. Not even from the women. Taking the Seoul subway, is more or less like being on a funeral. And I'm not sure if the Korean police is less corrupted than the thai. They are probably only better on hiding it.

And they are very bad on english. The thais are better by far on speaking english.

I really can't describe the enormous joy and happiness I felt evertime, coming back to Thailand from the Korean journeys.

The most important key thing to feel comfortable here in Thailand, is to learn to speak the Thai language. Being able to speak fluent thai, you will also earn more respect. You will also get more friends. I've also noticed how goverment officials turns from being stiff and authorian, to being nice and friendly as they discover that you actually are able to conversate with them in their own language.

Living in this country without being able to speak the language, will always put you in the position of an alien being from another planet (or even a vegetable). It the same back in our own countries, living close to neighbours that doesn't speak our language. Hard to understand, respect or make friends with. They will always become aliens or other low class beings to you.

/Ga-gai

Edited June 2, 2007 by Ga-gai

[Ga-gai]

The language...

It is also a great feeling to manage things on your own here, without the "walking dictionary" wife of yours, who probably for long got tired of doing translation services on words and expressions that she don't understand anything of in either direction.

Ramind me of that guy who lives here, but can't speak a word of thai. His wife told my wife she's really tired of translating for her husband. They had a really big argue during an occasion when he wanted to put up a satellite antenna and reciever at his house. He wanted his porly educated wife to translate all technical terms and questions he had to the satellite TV guy, while she didn't understand anything of that. And when the satellite guy tryed to give answers in thai, the woman didn't understand what that guy was talking about either. How could she translate something from thai to english, when she even doesn't understand what that thai word means?

It all ended up in a big argue and fight between the frustrated woman and her equally frustrated husband, while the satellite guy where at their place. Needless to ask if that poor worker felt embaressed because of those two...

Well, well... Learn to speak Thai!

/Ga-gai

Edited June 2, 2007 by Ga-gai

[markokang]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

It might have something to do with economics. If the true numbers of farang murders were to be disclosed, and reported internationally, you can imagine the effect that would have on the highly lucrative tourist industry.

Yes.... "Thailand, hub of farang murders!"

I think your sentiments are that of many long term farang staying here... infuriates me too the way farang are treated by police... even worse if you are African though! Suprising how racialist this country is sometimes...

If it is so bad a place for Farangs. why don't you who are unhappy go back home? It amazes me that you stay in such an "aweful" place! I wish I could stay in Thailand! Let me take your place! If you hang out in the bars and seedy places, that exist everywhere by the way, what do you expect? What kind of quality people do you expect to find?

You dont know shit about me ###### so dont presume I hang out in bars just because its all you can do here!

Im stating a fact that exists here in Thailand, as in my job I deal with the police and the darker side of life in BKK on a daily basis. Your rediculous comment of "go home if you dont like it" is as immature as your dark glasses look on you! I love it here in Thailand but I can't mention a bad point about the place? I really hope you get to experience it sometime!

[markokang]

Possible facts:

1. neighbors heard yelling.

2. wifey pooh came back for the automobile and no doubt doubt demands money

3. Poor old hubby was no doubt murdered in his sleep after she banged him.

Is their sufficient motive...hmmmmmmmmmmmm/

4. Do they actually perform autopsys here?

5.Of course the way police reason based on the history of these types of cases, it must be a suicide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lets see if history repeats itself.

1. Farrang has a fight with Mrs. X bar girl; now his ole lady. She calls the police, he goes to jail, and is extorted for money by wife, police, his attorney, the prosecuting attorney, and the no doubt the judge; a 3 way split. wifey is no doubt out banging some

one new.

2. Mrs. Bar Girl beats the piss out a farrang during a domestic argument, pulls a knife and stabbs the poor s.o.b.

He calls the police on her, and he still goes to jail, and is extorted for money from the wife, police, his attorney,

the prosecuting attorney, and no doubt the judge; a 3 way split; wifey is no doubt banging someone new.

,

Now folks I ask you, whats wrong with this picture. Ans: The farrang lives in Thailand.

Yes they do perform autopsys here and they are done by professionals, I have worked with some of them before and believe them to be as qualified as any international professionals but remember its always up to the police who gets to have an autopsy.

[meibanfa]

Yes they do perform autopsys here and they are done by professionals, I have worked with some of them before and believe them to be as qualified as any international professionals but remember its always up to the police who gets to have an autopsy.

Therein lies the problem. The decision to conduct an autopsy should rest with a coroner. Having the police make the determination is a bit like having the fox guard the henhouse.

[Tony Clifton]

She is not involved in this case but if you search a bit, you can see that even forensics expert Dr Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand has had more than her share of conflicts with the police regarding autopsies and handling of murder cases.

[Flow]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

This is one reason why I am moving my family out of this country. This tragic incident is being handled as if it means nothing.

Also, the other day I was in my bank and a senior employee told me that he has personally seen 100 million baht in assets transferred from farangs to thai women. Those men can kiss all of it goodbye. Next to a slug, men are the most stupid beings on earth!

Married farang supporting their Thai wives finacially; I see nothing nothing wrong with that. Married men also supporting the entire family because the wify wants them too, that is outright stupid imo. Thais will quickly take advantage of the soft-hearted and very dumb farang and milk them dry. When the farang ultimately screams enough is enough, that is when the troubles begin.....

Farangs are treated like dirt in this country? Yes. the dumb farangs are. Because of their stupidity. Someone I know gives his ex bargirl wife's family a 3,000 Baht monthly allowance. <deleted>? lol - he said "to keep the peace". How stupid!

People: Man up !!!!!!!!!