400k Baht What Should I Do ?

[astral]

Put the money in the bank and apply for a Retirement Visa,

if you are 50 or older.

[marcklein]

What kind of business you advice to do with this kind of budget?

small risk.

steady income.

I have a beer bar up for sale for exactly 400000 THB. The ROI is 30 - 40% and the bar has had only 3 owners (incl. me) in the last 20 years. Avarage monthly net profit is 400 to 500 US$ have had some months where it has been over 1000US$ but this is above avarage and does not happen to often. The risk is fairly small. The bar is not the usual ladies bar but I have 2 girls working there, it is roughly 30 meters from the next hotel, right in front of the entrance. There are rooms, kitchen, bathroom/toilet on the second floor. The rental costs are only 6000 THB per month.

the idea with the motorbikes is a bad one for Pattaya, have just seen 2 people go doen the drain because of low season, so forget get is my advice.

<<email removed>>

[bkkmadness]

What kind of business you advice to do with this kind of budget?

small risk.

steady income.

Absolutely none. Also to get business visa you need 2 million baht and employ 4 Thai so just go figure....

Hi there, just intersted in the buisiness visa thing. I have a Thai company which i used to buy a house, but next year i intend to start a small buisiness with my Thai wife - so does that mean i have to have 2 million tied up and employ 4 thais in order for me to be able to work in our own buisiness?

thanks

If u are married I am sure you only need to show 1m Baht......but the ratio of Thai employees is correct to my knowledge

But I could be wrong!

If you really want to know ask Sunbelt Asia

You don't need to employ 4 Thai employees to set up or work in your own business, do a search on this and you'll see a lot of Sunbelt's posts confirming this.

[blizzard]

im intrigued. if its not a bar with the usual ladies what kind of bar is it.

sorry your numbers dont add up. if its such a moneymaker why you sell so cheap?

Edited July 3, 2007 by blizzard

[Heng]

you could become a small time money lender to the local low paid farangs,

By far this is the most profitable (legal, as long as it's under 15% a year interest) thing you can do with such a small amount of startup capital. Your money works for you 24-7, 365 days a year.

Would advise doing this in the LOS though, as most farangs don't have collateral, and you probably wouldn't be able to navigate the contracts required at the land department, etc.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Heng

[thai4u]

u talk about bars and ladies..really not my "cup of tea"..

the wife suggest to borrow the village people on a 3% / month same the chinese mafia in the village..

she say it could be 2% and still its good profit..

what do u think?

(i'm talking about small amounts of 20-100K baht each).

*keep on mind that I already have business here that have nice income.

[puuchai299]

Taking away business from the mafia,now that could turn out very interesting,not sure about profitable though...

[bkkmadness]

the wife suggest to borrow the village people on a 3% / month same the chinese mafia in the village..

she say it could be 2% and still its good profit..

what do u think?

(i'm talking about small amounts of 20-100K baht each).

*keep on mind that I already have business here that have nice income.

Why bother going through all the hassle when you already have a nice income?

[thai4u]

just thought to make an Add on or a different small business and to use this kind of sum (400K) to lift me up to start a second small business.

[N47HAN]

You didn't just happen to come by this money yesterday in Phuket did you?

seconded

[blizzard]

nothing like going to sleep at night knowing you undercut the chineese mafia ...lol!

[N47HAN]

What kind of business you advice to do with this kind of budget?

small risk.

steady income.

I have a beer bar up for sale for exactly 400000 THB. The ROI is 30 - 40% and the bar has had only 3 owners (incl. me) in the last 20 years. Avarage monthly net profit is 400 to 500 US$ have had some months where it has been over 1000US$ but this is above avarage and does not happen to often. The risk is fairly small. The bar is not the usual ladies bar but I have 2 girls working there, it is roughly 30 meters from the next hotel, right in front of the entrance. There are rooms, kitchen, bathroom/toilet on the second floor. The rental costs are only 6000 THB per month.

the idea with the motorbikes is a bad one for Pattaya, have just seen 2 people go doen the drain because of low season, so forget get is my advice.

<<email removed>>

14000 baht a month profit, maybe me but dont seem a lot , no offence but wouldnt it be just as easy and cheaper to rent a place and turn it into a bar to obtain that turnover?

[Paul123456]

Lots of negative answers.

Pity.

That is a lot of money and you could buy an apartment or two for that and receive a steady income. Around 10%. And reasonably low risk.

Good luck. I have a similar question. Already doing the apartments, so was thinking of something different, but obviously here is not the place for the answers. Must only be for the super rich people here.

[JimsKnight]

No its not that, its just that these days there are very few places in the big cities of Thailand where 400k baht gets you much (bricks and morterwise). Look at the price of condos and houses. Seeing one for even a million baht is getting rare.

Investing in bars is a mugs game. I don't know your age but you seem to have the same mentality I had when I was in my late teens thru to early twenties, that is to buy fast for the short term bang and see whats next. Money is an easy thing to lose, especially when you chuck it into typical farang pursuits like bars and guesthouses etc.

A lot of the posters on this domain of the forum are mini-dragons / tiger investors / retirees and they can be quite wise folk. They've made their fortune and know what usually works and what usually doesn't. I nearly made a fck up on investing and if it wasn't for one of them throwing up a warning to me I'd of screwed up big time.

Patience is the key, low risk investments that guarentee ROI and medium risk shares (thai stocks) are possibilities.

If you want to risk it all for one throw of the dice then go ahead and descend into the sugar daddies playground of Pattaya. Good luck, we'll all be interested to know how you get on...

[Penkoprod]

Lots of negative answers.

Pity.

That is a lot of money and you could buy an apartment or two for that and receive a steady income. Around 10%. And reasonably low risk.

Good luck. I have a similar question. Already doing the apartments, so was thinking of something different, but obviously here is not the place for the answers. Must only be for the super rich people here.

Please can you point me (and others i suspect) to where one can buy "an apartment or two" for around 400,000 Baht that the OP refers to?

Penkoprod

[rainman]

May I suggest an internet business? For example, start selling on eBay. Nearly no up-front expenses.

[thai4u]

jimsknight, I dont agree with you AT ALL!

You mistake about few things:

-Old farang that no need to work to make income are smart ??maybe they were dum track drivers all their life and then at the age of 55 can let their back a break.. ??

-This method you try to represent that only BIG MONEY can lift u up to the next level is very wrong .. because everyone start from small to big AND THIS IS THE STEP I AM TALKING ABOUT.. ok ??I process the info and learn and check ALL POSSIBLITIES and then invest my money and go further.

- Your assuming that I am a stupid young falarg is so wrong that u even dont know how much you wrong..

I have business and I have more ambition then this ..

(sorry about the english..).

If someone here dont have wise and value information so dont post on this thread please.

*its much more easy to sit with a chang beer on pattaya beach road..thats for sure.

[marcklein]

i spoke of 34% return on profit, close to risk free and you guys seem to think its a bad business...

[JimsKnight]

jimsknight, I dont agree with you AT ALL!

You mistake about few things:

-Old farang that no need to work to make income are smart ??maybe they were dum track drivers all their life and then at the age of 55 can let their back a break.. ??

-This method you try to represent that only BIG MONEY can lift u up to the next level is very wrong .. because everyone start from small to big AND THIS IS THE STEP I AM TALKING ABOUT.. ok ??I process the info and learn and check ALL POSSIBLITIES and then invest my money and go further.

- Your assuming that I am a stupid young falarg is so wrong that u even dont know how much you wrong..

I have business and I have more ambition then this ..

(sorry about the english..).

If someone here dont have wise and value information so dont post on this thread please.

*its much more easy to sit with a chang beer on pattaya beach road..thats for sure.

Well I know a lot of farang in LOS who've earned a bunch of money from hard work and retired when they were 40 - 50 years old and are now living very comfortably. This is smart as the'll of invested the money wisely and are now reaping the benefits. This is smart.

I'm still in my 20s and enjoying life in LOS and Europe while building for the future.

It is you, my friend, who is giving out the wrong signals.

First you make statement on what should you invest 400k baht into. When some of us explain this is not enough to go on, you go into a sulk, finally explaining that the 400 k baht is an additional investment enterprise on top of existing business.

Now making money is sure a whole lot easier in the west than it is in the East, especially if you are a foreigner. Sure I don't doubt you must of had some success over in LOS but generally speaking money invested in Thailand needs to be more than 400k to make it work.

Now I was not calling you or assuming you are a stupid farang, where did I say this? I don't insult people as a rule on TV as this is against the rules and you are seeing things that aren't there.

That last bit about Pattaya was meant as a friendly joke, don't take that to heart.

But like I said, let us know how you get on out there.

This bit is not a joke - If you learn the english language properly then misunderstandings like what you've just made are less likely to happen.

400 k should do it! (That's a joke by the way)

[Jersey_UK]

My first reaction was that B400K was small money for a bizness in Thailand........but then I got to thinking that B400k in Thai terms is a fair chunk of money to many Thais (I do appreciate by no means all Thais).......indeed if someone was living on B10-15k a month (or even a bit more) it might take them 5 years (or even 10?) to save this amount of cash............but given the number of small (and mid) size Thai buisnesses around then I am figuring that many must start off with far less than B400k in the bank. Let alone with B1 Million.

Of course not to say that all Thai Business start ups survive or do more than be a small family business, rather than developing into enterprises with multi million baht profits.

Now, my thinking is that if a Thai person has the opportunity to create a business with less than B400K up front (let alone with B1M), then surely it is possible for a Farang to do as well as a Thai? - if he was willing to put the same hard work in, has a good idea and can recognise opportunities to develop the bizness and can judge and take a few risks........and also in the early days is either willing to spend money to live like a Thai or have other cash resources to part fund his additional Farang style living expenses, whilst the business grows into one that would support the lifestyle of a Farang. (Visa's and restricted occupations permitting, and accepting that both Thai and Farang will have different strengths and weaknesses).

It seems to me that many Farang are hung up on the concept that a business must include a freehold property, rather than looking at a rented property as also providing advantages from requring less up front capital, being easier to relocate if outgrowing the initial premises as well as having less cash at risk from a terminal failure. or Farang look to buy an existing business that already provides a Farang style income and being surprised that the price requested for a genuinely good business is very full.

Also it seem to me a somewhat risky move to create or run a bizness in any country (which trades locally) where you do not speak and cannot read & write the local language. Or if this is the case perhaps slightly less risky from a business success viewpoint if you have an able Thai partner (Married or not!) - but this of course also increases other risks! Although some folk in Farangland have been very succesful despite being illiterate, most in this category do not make the headlines as successful biznessmen. and I cannot think of any who also could not speak the local lingo. (excepting maybe some corner shop keepers?).

Exactly what sort of business could be started or bought and developed with B400K (or B1 million) is of course back to where OP started and after my long post I admit I do not have the answers! - but perhaps one of them is also not to get overhung up on the Farang market (just cos' you be a Farang), most of Thailand is.........Thai! Spending power may be lower per person on average, but their are more of them and they are likely to be a more reliable source of repeat custom and year round income..........of course you need to understand them / their market needs.........but who said running / creating a business was easy!

If the Settlement Visa thing goes t#ts up, then plan G (or is it H?!!) may involve giving the Missus B1M and a couple of years to see what she (and a bit of me) can do bizness wise in Thailand - for an equivalent business entry £££ level in Farangland I could not afford to lose the lot (and I would never risk investing at the equivalent £££ level not knowing the market place ,with nil language skills and being illiterate!) but in Thailand a total loss would be doable after a couple of years - even if it wasn't totally painless.

On the internet I know all the answers, I am also young, handsome, sexy and very £££ successful........kinda like in certain places in a certain country

[JimsKnight]

My first reaction was that B400K was small money for a bizness in Thailand........but then I got to thinking that B400k in Thai terms is a fair chunk of money to many Thais (I do appreciate by no means all Thais).......indeed if someone was living on B10-15k a month (or even a bit more) it might take them 5 years (or even 10?) to save this amount of cash............but given the number of small (and mid) size Thai buisnesses around then I am figuring that many must start off with far less than B400k in the bank. Let alone with B1 Million.

Of course not to say that all Thai Business start ups survive or do more than be a small family business, rather than developing into enterprises with multi million baht profits.

Now, my thinking is that if a Thai person has the opportunity to create a business with less than B400K up front (let alone with B1M), then surely it is possible for a Farang to do as well as a Thai? - if he was willing to put the same hard work in, has a good idea and can recognise opportunities to develop the bizness and can judge and take a few risks........and also in the early days is either willing to spend money to live like a Thai or have other cash resources to part fund his additional Farang style living expenses, whilst the business grows into one that would support the lifestyle of a Farang. (Visa's and restricted occupations permitting, and accepting that both Thai and Farang will have different strengths and weaknesses).

It seems to me that many Farang are hung up on the concept that a business must include a freehold property, rather than looking at a rented property as also providing advantages from requring less up front capital, being easier to relocate if outgrowing the initial premises as well as having less cash at risk from a terminal failure. or Farang look to buy an existing business that already provides a Farang style income and being surprised that the price requested for a genuinely good business is very full.

Also it seem to me a somewhat risky move to create or run a bizness in any country (which trades locally) where you do not speak and cannot read & write the local language. Or if this is the case perhaps slightly less risky from a business success viewpoint if you have an able Thai partner (Married or not!) - but this of course also increases other risks! Although some folk in Farangland have been very succesful despite being illiterate, most in this category do not make the headlines as successful biznessmen. and I cannot think of any who also could not speak the local lingo. (excepting maybe some corner shop keepers?).

Exactly what sort of business could be started or bought and developed with B400K (or B1 million) is of course back to where OP started and after my long post I admit I do not have the answers! - but perhaps one of them is also not to get overhung up on the Farang market (just cos' you be a Farang), most of Thailand is.........Thai! Spending power may be lower per person on average, but their are more of them and they are likely to be a more reliable source of repeat custom and year round income..........of course you need to understand them / their market needs.........but who said running / creating a business was easy!

If the Settlement Visa thing goes t#ts up, then plan G (or is it H?!!) may involve giving the Missus B1M and a couple of years to see what she (and a bit of me) can do bizness wise in Thailand - for an equivalent business entry £££ level in Farangland I could not afford to lose the lot (and I would never risk investing at the equivalent £££ level not knowing the market place ,with nil language skills and being illiterate!) but in Thailand a total loss would be doable after a couple of years - even if it wasn't totally painless.

On the internet I know all the answers, I am also young, handsome, sexy and very £££ successful........kinda like in certain places in a certain country

Jersey, theres wisdom in what you say and yeah I am in agreement with the Thais and being able to live frugally on a start up for low amounts. But for Farang it is different ball park. For a start its very difficult to live as cheap as a thai running a business . Work visas, permits and travel all automatically place you in a higher spending bracket than the thais. If you've got a missus this could also possibly be a financial burden. Also not having any local family ties to aid you in running the operation is a negative -

A lot of the small scale thai businesses are passed down from father to son / daughter (ultra low employee expenses / overheads, which is why they keep on going).

I think if you have the chinese mentality of low profit margins and long-term foward planning (ten years or so) AND speak and read fluent thai then its doable. But this begs the question of why go through a punishing test / crucible of a challenge just to prove a sub 500k baht business can work?

The money could be put to better use elsewhere.

It'd be interested to hear from people who might of already committed to doing a low investment, business start-up in Thailand and hear their story as my experience tends to be in the Diving industry, which differs slightly to the more run-of-the-mill mainland businesses.

[blizzard]

i love the sell on e bay approach. what he going to sell! every tom dick and somchai selling on ebay....lol.

[marcklein]

blizzard my numbers add up perfectly it is you that cannot count. you may be doing some business but I doubt you know the basics of good business and probably you dont even know how to calculate return on profit which is why you feel the numbers dont add up.

secondly, it is not a standard ladies bar because no customer takes a lady from my bar. The customers come from the hotel for drinks when they go out and usually have girl when they return for a drink before going to their hotel. We have customers who have been visiting the bar and hotel for more than 20 years. Thats what makes the bar and the business different to the avarage walking street beer bar.

[blizzard]

i give you the benefit of the doubt sir.

if your bar is such a moneymaker why dont you sell it to your girls. they would pay you off very quickly, no more than a few years and they would then becum thai elite.......lol.

you can guide them as a consultant so you make sure you get your money.

on the other hand your numbers still dont add up. seems like you trying to pawn off your busnit to another who wants long hours for nitnoi pay.

[Heng]

It seems to me that many Farang are hung up on the concept that a business must include a freehold property, rather than looking at a rented property as also providing advantages from requring less up front capital, being easier to relocate if outgrowing the initial premises as well as having less cash at risk from a terminal failure.

In my experience, it's the opposite... most farang that I know are 'hung up' on renting instead of owning their property outright... which is totally understandable for a lot of folks (potentially fly by night partners or spouse, limited cash resources, etc.). The downside being that you wake up each day in debt rent wise.

It's a necessity for some businesses -bars, restaurants, anything relying on convenient location / walk-in traffic-, and insignificant for businesses whose heavy cash flow make a few k a day in rent to pay meaningless, but not for say any number of wholesale businesses. Concerns about low and high seasons, slow sales periods, all melt away somewhat when you don't have that XX-XXXk prime location rent to deal with at the end of every month.

[kenk3z]

Invest in corrugated metal.

Ever been along the railroad tracks in Bangkok? There are a lot of shacks set up on a relatively low investment basis. You don't have to worry about buying or renting the land because its owned by the government. So take your corrugated metal and build a line of 10 nice shacks. Charge 10 Baht a night to flop, and an extra 2 baht to use the lavatory facilities (i.e. the railroad tracks).

BAM !!! Instant (Baht)Millionaire!

------

On a slightly more serious note, who gets to set up those tiny unsheltered drink stands on the BTS platforms? Usually one or at most two girls selling bottled or bagged drinks....

kenk3z

[marcklein]

i give you the benefit of the doubt sir.

if your bar is such a moneymaker why dont you sell it to your girls. they would pay you off very quickly, no more than a few years and they would then becum thai elite.......lol.

you can guide them as a consultant so you make sure you get your money.

on the other hand your numbers still dont add up. seems like you trying to pawn off your busnit to another who wants long hours for nitnoi pay.

blizzard for the last time if you take net profit which is 12 x 400 US$ = 4800$ a year and you take 4800$ / 12000$ investment = 0,4 x 100 and you left with a return on investment of (+-) 40%. When you look at the figures they do add up and there is no reason for anyone to doubt because we are talking figures and facts. Why I want to sell has nothing to do with the business and the reason why the girl will not buy the bar is because she is my girlfrind. And the reason why I dont want the bar is because we have a house in Isaan and I have nobody that will take care of the bar (in my interests) while I am not here and I am not going to live here for the 400 - 500$ the bar makes a month. For anyone that likes to live in Pattaya this is a different story.

Edited July 5, 2007 by marcklein

[garro]

I have a business idea which would cost relatively little to start up and could net a big profit for little work. I live in the bunnies and notice that there are lots of empty houses up for rent for less than 1,500 baht a month. I think there is a big demand among farang for this type of accomodation if they knew how to get it. Some people would be very happy with a holiday away from it all in the 'Real Thailand'. The Thai owner's have no idea how to attract Farang to their properties and so would be delighted with your sevices. You could charge a lot more than 1,500 month, You would also have a captive audience to rent motorbikes to and take on tours.

Your expenses would be perhaps an internet site and some advertisement expenses.

[Khun ?]

Any Farang that would want to live in a flop house for $50 a month you would not want to deal with.

Then again maybe a two man tent rental business may be the thing.

I have a business idea which would cost relatively little to start up and could net a big profit for little work. I live in the bunnies and notice that there are lots of empty houses up for rent for less than 1,500 baht a month. I think there is a big demand among farang for this type of accomodation if they knew how to get it. Some people would be very happy with a holiday away from it all in the 'Real Thailand'. The Thai owner's have no idea how to attract Farang to their properties and so would be delighted with your sevices. You could charge a lot more than 1,500 month, You would also have a captive audience to rent motorbikes to and take on tours.

Your expenses would be perhaps an internet site and some advertisement expenses.

[blizzard]

no offense sir but your bar is worth nothing.

why would someone pay you so they can work for 500$ a month. and thats after paying you off.

a silly farang would be better off teeching english than to buy your bar.

why buy yourself a lousy job, it dont make sense. you even say it aint worth your time at 500$ a month.

another proposal that i have to deny, sorry!

next. who wants to live in the bunnies! i wouldnt if you paid me.............lol. bad idea sir. location x 3 does apply in rental real estate.

Edited July 5, 2007 by blizzard