400k Baht What Should I Do ?

blizzard · July 12, 2007

dude

it is more interesting trying to understand you!

ThaiWanderer68 · July 12, 2007

Just curious sgthai
How many white faces have you ever seen running a stall in Chatuchak market as you suggest? In anticipation of your answer, please don't tell me that means there's an opportunity either. lol

Dear Thaiwanderer68,

Please read my post properly before you make any silly comment that might back fire to you.

I've mentioned the word trusted friend or spouse.

You mean when a farang owns a stall he must be there to sell his ware???

So I guess the boss of starbuck is also serving coffee or the boss of fed ex is delivering the parcel himself?

I've also mentioned that one can just used his brain and let other do his work.

And hey we are talking about people who is interested in business or want to make some extra money but have very low capital.

Of course if one is rich he don't have to come in here to seek advice or enlightenment.

If money is aplenty one can just go to any management consultant and they will be able to invest in any business of their choice.

Please understand the topic of this discussion.

Sgthai

I asked my thai spouse as you suggested, but she didn't bite at the opportunity of working down the market. When I asked my trusted friends, they didn't find it interesting either. My 1 year old daughter smiled tho' and thought returns would be well within her income bracket. Though she did ask if I would stop her pocket money if she worked as that was higher.

I'd hardly compare running Starbucks to a stall on the market....Then again coffee to you guys on the market... there's an idea. I've got a coffee maker, some water and some coffee. Oh sorry, just checked my wife still isn't interested. My trusted friends neither. Even the daughter was scared because it was hot... Never mind

Edited July 12, 2007 by ThaiWanderer68

sgthai · July 12, 2007

SGTHAI
[/url]

To clarify a bit mor of what I meant about HDB and CPF among others, the following may be of interest, as you clearly know very little about your country's housing scheme. PERHAPS YOU COULD EXPLAIN WHY THE SINGAPORE GOVT WEBSITE TOTALLY CONTRADICTS YOU:

Let me expand :

http://askhdb.hdb.gov.sg/

Question: Q:What is CPF Housing Grant?

[ Home Seekers > Buying A Resale Flat > Buyers' Enquiries on > Financial Schemes ] A:The CPF Housing Grant is a housing subsidy to assist primarily first-timer citizen married couples to buy a resale flat from the open market. The grant can be used for the initial downpayment of to reduce the housing loan quantum for purchase of the resale flat.

Question: Q:How can I finance my new flat?

[ Home Seekers > Buying a New HDB Flat (e-Sales) > Financing your Purchase > Plan for the Purchase ] A:You may need to make part of the payment in cash and the rest with your CPF savings, and to take out a housing loan. For more information on housing loans, visit our 'Financing Your Home'.

Further on funding: "http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10201p.nsf/WP...ly?OpenDocument

"Eligibility Conditions for HDB Concessionary loan

HDB provides housing loans at concessionary interest rate to eligible flat buyers, subject to HDB's credit assessment and prevailing mortgage loan criteria....

Or there's the quote from sgthai:

"Our PAP govt does not subsidies for anything at all.

Not for school,not for medical,not for old folks home,not for hospital,not for the unfortunate etc."

I'll leave it to others to decide which one they prefer to believe: sgthai or Singapore Government website. From my perspective there's so many holes in a lot of what you've said it's hard to believe the rest.

Boy oh boy...you're really not shy and dare to even go and search the sg govt website and all to prove your point.

You are telling the whole world that you know better than a 47 yrs old Singaporean about his own country.

And you so call yourself an academic??? I'm really shock man !!!

Every literate person,businessman,politician and many others from all over the world knows that sg has got a tyrant govt and the lee regimes controlling the whole population except YOU !!!

The sg media is controlled and that is why they are ranked 146th in the world.

So whatever is written in the newspaper or govt website are just a facade.

I'm not going to argue anymore with you about singapore govt and it's policy as it is not the appropriate topic in this discussion.

Go read up this.. http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?...%3Fmsg%3D146282

This site consist of 95% Singaporean talking amongst themselves and complaining about how our sg govt abused the people.Go read it and understand more about the truth facts of our sg policy.

They come into this site is because the sg govt cannot touch them but if this site were to be in sg it will definitely be banned.

This site is registered in the state.

Some have also migrated to other country because of their frustration over our govt.

blizzard · July 12, 2007

so sgthai is saying some of these street stalls are controlled by the white man. is he a troll or what!

he should be a comedian!

AmericanGuy1066 · July 12, 2007

sgthai let me understand your argument:

1) You are a 47 year old Singaporean man. That means you know best, and you claim: "Our PAP govt does not subsidies for anything at all. Not for school,not for medical,not for old folks home,not for hospital,not for the unfortunate etc."

2) The Singapore Government website claims "The CPF Housing Grant is a housing subsidy to assist primarily first-timer citizen married couples to buy a resale flat from the open market" and "HDB provides housing loans at concessionary interest rate to eligible flat buyers".

3) People I know personally who were first time buyers have taken up these subsidies and concessionary rates on their first home and tell me it's true, and I've seen their apartments...or was I hallucinating?

So summarising:

On one hand you are a 47 year old Singaporean man who knows best. On the other the hand the government is extending loans and subsidies to people I know. Using your logic my deduction is that the Singapore government is not a 47 year old man who knows best, and people I know living in apartments bought with subsidies from the government are also not a 47 year old man.

Got it now> Thanks!

Where you legally born in Singapore? Or did the police just tell you it was OK to say so like your Thai businesses.?

One last question: Is your Singapore on the third planet from the sun, (called Earth) like mine? Because the 2 sound very different to me.

AmericanGuy1066 · July 12, 2007

sgthai.

BTW Don't spend too much time on the internet, your white buns made from cardboard will be burning...(See last page posts)

sgthai · July 12, 2007

BTW Small tip when you say you have your Thai nominees and Thai employees (who you don't pay), I hope you never insult them in the same way you seem to dismiss others on this board. You really wouldn't want any sort of tax audit on your business from what I've read. Employees, but not paying them only paying their NI? that will stick out a mile on your books.
BTW2 I loved the quote: "it is legal whatever you sell as long as the police say so..." lol. What happens when your friendly policeman moves on, or a sees you making money and decides he'd prefer the money is his own pocket instead and speaks to his native policeman.... lol

Each to their own though...

If you do not have a clear picture of whats happening,may i suggest you don't make any assumption my dear Thaiwanderer.

If I don't pay my emplyee salary then it is an insult to them but these people whom I am paying for their medical insurance is not working for me. They are self emplyed eg..hawker and they get free medical insurance from me by just providing me with their details.

And for your info..do not compare thailand police system from where you came from.

In sg we dare not even bribe a single authority but when one travel oversea and conduct small scale business in china,indonesia,philippines,myanmar,laos,thailand,malaysia or cambodia we will have to follow their unspoken rules if we want to survive.

This is an actual facts.

And all my business IS and ARE legal on paper in Thailand.

Even if it's illegal it is only semi illegal and nothing we cannot resolve in Thailand.

It's not just me ....most thai have been doing it since donkey years too.

We are not doing drugs,arms or killing people so relax guys.

But I guess you know better.......because you are smarter and knows thailand VERY WELL.

Edited July 12, 2007 by sgthai

sgthai · July 12, 2007

sgthai let me understand your argument:
1) You are a 47 year old Singaporean man. That means you know best, and you claim: "Our PAP govt does not subsidies for anything at all. Not for school,not for medical,not for old folks home,not for hospital,not for the unfortunate etc."

2) The Singapore Government website claims "The CPF Housing Grant is a housing subsidy to assist primarily first-timer citizen married couples to buy a resale flat from the open market" and "HDB provides housing loans at concessionary interest rate to eligible flat buyers".

3) People I know personally who were first time buyers have taken up these subsidies and concessionary rates on their first home and tell me it's true, and I've seen their apartments...or was I hallucinating?

So summarising:

On one hand you are a 47 year old Singaporean man who knows best. On the other the hand the government is extending loans and subsidies to people I know. Using your logic my deduction is that the Singapore government is not a 47 year old man who knows best, and people I know living in apartments bought with subsidies from the government are also not a 47 year old man.

Got it now> Thanks!

Where you legally born in Singapore? Or did the police just tell you it was OK to say so like your Thai businesses.?

One last question: Is your Singapore on the third planet from the sun, (called Earth) like mine? Because the 2 sound very different to me.

Oh my God ...you are really a very ignorant guy.You really make my toes laugh.

The subidies that is given to suitable candidates....are they in a form of cash???

The govt subidies like S$40,000 to any married couple when they purchased a flat from the govt if they allow their parents to stay with them are just nice to hear on the surface.

Eg...the price of a 5 room flat cost $350,000 and with the S$40,000 subidy so the couple only pays S$310,000 for their 5 room flat. And because of this you actually believe the sg govt did subidise the couple?.

My God...even a simple layman in Sg knows the govt jackup the bloody price of the flat so high and take credit in terms of subidy and of all person ...YOU ...an expat can be fool by their gimmick.

You are really making a fool out of yourself now even though you show sg govt link policy for all to see.

I shall not reply to you or that blizard guy anymore.

If both of you thinks that you know thailand,Singapore and running a small business in a Thailand well....then so be it.

I'm moving on. You have a long way understand how a chinese or a developing country works.

Edited July 12, 2007 by sgthai

sgthai · July 12, 2007

I really enjoyed reading this topic and learning how everyone from different country,culture and age group giving their own experience and opinion about doing business in Thailand.
I'm a chinese Singaporean in my late 40's and has been working and doing business in many countries especially in SE asia.

I, myself have been working in Thailand for the past 3yrs.

Many farang knows alot about legality and thai culture.

How about unspoken streets rules and regulation?

This can only be reveal to one if one actually gain their trust and confident.

Yes no one wants to live more poorly when one actually comes from a develop country.

But we can learn from the thais how they make their money from a small capital and together with our experience and knowledge we can improve on it thus elevating our standard of living in Thailand too.

And all it takes is to start a small business and make it grow.

Just use your brain and let others do your work.

Hi sgthai,

thanks for this post. I found it was one of the most interesting ones I have read on TV so far. The Chinese have a strong reputation for being shrewd businesspeople in SEA, so I found it very interesting to hear your opinions on starting a new business.

thanks! -CG

My pleasure lady

sgthai · July 12, 2007

Just curious sgthai
How many white faces have you ever seen running a stall in Chatuchak market as you suggest? In anticipation of your answer, please don't tell me that means there's an opportunity either. lol

Dear Thaiwanderer68,

Please read my post properly before you make any silly comment that might back fire to you.

I've mentioned the word trusted friend or spouse.

You mean when a farang owns a stall he must be there to sell his ware???

So I guess the boss of starbuck is also serving coffee or the boss of fed ex is delivering the parcel himself?

I've also mentioned that one can just used his brain and let other do his work.

And hey we are talking about people who is interested in business or want to make some extra money but have very low capital.

Of course if one is rich he don't have to come in here to seek advice or enlightenment.

If money is aplenty one can just go to any management consultant and they will be able to invest in any business of their choice.

Please understand the topic of this discussion.

Sgthai

I asked my thai spouse as you suggested, but she didn't bite at the opportunity of working down the market. When I asked my trusted friends, they didn't find it interesting either. My 1 year old daughter smiled tho' and thought returns would be well within her income bracket. Though she did ask if I would stop her pocket money if she worked as that was higher.

I'd hardly compare running Starbucks to a stall on the market....Then again coffee to you guys on the market... there's an idea. I've got a coffee maker, some water and some coffee. Oh sorry, just checked my wife still isn't interested. My trusted friends neither. Even the daughter was scared because it was hot... Never mind

haha....i thought i was a simple man thinking of a simple way to make money but you or your mind is even more simple.

Your spouse and trusted friends not interested means in general the whole population in thailand is not keen?

So mush so for a learn man....lol

Good ...keep up with the jokes.....each time you opened up your mouth without thinking twice makes me laugh and fall off my chair lol

AmericanGuy1066 · July 12, 2007

A little food for thought (not Chinese white cardboard buns tho').

I prefer this type of market to Chatuchak for my 400k:

30 Dec 2000

Aberdeen Growth Fund Price 7.5529

THB 400,000 =

USD 10,196 (@ 39.23)

11 Jul 2007

Aberdeen Growth Fund Price 46.4595

THB 2,460,485 =

USD 73,895 (@33.3 onshore rate)

or

USD 80,143 (@30.7 offshore rate)

Edited July 12, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

cmsally · July 12, 2007

A little food for thought (not Chinese white cardboard buns tho').
I prefer this type of market to Chatuchak for my 400k:

30 Dec 2000

Aberdeen Growth Fund Price 7.5529

THB 400,000 =

USD 10,196 (@ 39.23)

11 Jul 2007

Aberdeen Growth Fund Price 46.4595

THB 2,460,485 =

USD 73,895 (@33.3 onshore rate)

or

USD 80,143 (@30.7 offshore rate)

Slightly off subject, but this is one of many times I have see an Aberdeen Fund , quoted, does anyone have contact details of where I can get more info??

AmericanGuy1066 · July 12, 2007

Slightly off subject, but this is one of many times I have see an Aberdeen Fund , quoted, does anyone have contact details of where I can get more info??

http://www.aberdeen-asset.com/aam.nsf/thailand/home

In Thailand, they used to be based in Sathorn near Standard Chartered bank. In those days it was Nakornthorn Schroder. Fund Management ended up with Aberdeen. Standard Chartered bought Nakornthorn bank. I think they are still there.

PCA · July 12, 2007

A little food for thought (not Chinese white cardboard buns tho').
I prefer this type of market to Chatuchak for my 400k:

30 Dec 2000

Aberdeen Growth Fund Price 7.5529

THB 400,000 =

USD 10,196 (@ 39.23)

11 Jul 2007

Aberdeen Growth Fund Price 46.4595

THB 2,460,485 =

USD 73,895 (@33.3 onshore rate)

or

USD 80,143 (@30.7 offshore rate)

Hi American guy,

whats so good about those funds and what kind of returns do you expect?

Regards

cmsally · July 12, 2007

Thank you for your reply. I just looked at their website, couldn't find long term historical data, but growth rates look fairly reasonable for the growth fund. Anything I am missing?

AmericanGuy1066 · July 12, 2007

Weblink is as follows:

http://www.aberdeen-asset.com/aam.nsf/thai...mp;pricesprices

You can get historical prices, but not sure how far back they go. As mentioned the company reorganised. I've held these throughout the period mentioned and prices are from my own records that I keep in Excel for each m/e. Below are some more. But pls note I don't always take on the exact day, but they are close enough:

31-Dec30-Jun31-Dec30-Jun31-Dec30-Jun31-Dec30-Jun31-Dec30-Jun31-Aug31-Dec30-Jun31-Dec31-Jan28-Feb31-Mar30-Apr31-May30-Jun31-JulPricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePricePrice2000200120012002200220032003200420042005200520052006200620072007200720072007200720077.55299.4669.478313.923614.046418.067328.103125.811326.922429.463931.736334.052435.100438.609236.401938.05138.367139.982642.19343.193746.4595

AmericanGuy1066 · July 12, 2007

sorry it doesn't cut paste so well. prices for those dates

7.5529/

9.466/

9.4783/

/13.9236

/14.0464

/18.0673

/28.1031

/25.8113

/26.9224

/29.4639

/31.7363

/34.0524

/35.1004

/38.6092

/36.4019

/38.051

/38.3671

/39.9826

/42.193

/43.1937

/46.4595

AmericanGuy1066 · July 12, 2007

Hi American guy,

whats so good about those funds and what kind of returns do you expect?

Regards

PCA

What I was saying is that for every 400k you/I put in in Dec2000 it is now worth 2.4mio 6.5 years later in July 2007. That is past performance. i.e investment increased 6 times over. In dollar terms because of the exchanege rate movements it is even higher at 7-8 times.

Please bear in mind this is past performance, and no guarantee of the future. What do I personally expect in next 5 years?. Some years you may lose money, like 2004. Some you may gain a lot like 2003. Overall in 5 years from now I expect to double my money again. i.e my expectation is 400k now will at least double to 800k by 2012. (i.e annualised return on investment of at least 15%) That's my view. But it's a risk, and it may not pay off. I may lose a little money but it's worth the risk in my view.

Continuing the story... every THB 400k I put in in 2000 is now worth THB 2.4mio. I expect it to rise to THB 5mio+ by 2012, with a few rollercoaster rides along the way.

The reason Thai mutual funds have an advantage comapred to beating average indices in my view is that the market is much narrower. It's easier for the expert fund managers to pick the winners and ditch the losers. eg in the UK most of the FTSE100 (top 100 stocks) are quality companies. In Thailand in the top 100 there are some obvious dogs/losers so it's easier to differentiate between good and bad. i.e Aberdeen in Thailand have an easier job than Aberdeen in UK for picking winners.

Also Thai economy is much less developed than the UK or US, so there is much more room to grow from such a low base

Edited July 12, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

sgthai · July 19, 2007

EUREKA!
I finally have it. A way to talk like with like some of you guys on entrepreneurial businesses practices. It fits perfectly with Canadiagirls quote about "shrewd Chinese businessmen", JimsKnight's quote about the Chinese being "10-50 years ahead" in the way they think, and Sgthai's grassroots Chinatown solutions.

It's a perfect answer to this thread. I reckon it would cost under THB 10k to set up. Read on...

First I must confess it wasn't my idea. I saw it first on BBC World TV this morning (Thu12Jul). Basically an entrepreneurial businessman in China found a way to cut costs on making those white buns, which I think are a type of dimsum. Instead of using meat he was using cardboard treated with industrial solvent - much cheaper and you can pick up waste off the streets - perfect for BKK. He was then selling the buns among others to (get this please...!) his "friends and neighbours" among others. Tho' he wasn't eating them himself for some strange reason.

So go for it. Chinese white dim sum buns with cardboard treated with solvent instead of using meat. There'll be plenty of customers down the market. I guess this could be extended to shredded cardboard + bleach instead of papaya in somtam, the possibilities are endless Chinese style with your friends and family as key target customers.

Combine this with sgthai's "as long as the police say it's OK" rule, and setting up companies, and who knows before long you could have a franchise like Yakult or 7/11

Beijing TV 'faked cardboard buns story'

Beijing (dpa) - Chinese police have arrested a television reporter who is accused of fabricating a story claiming that a stall in Beijing had used cardboard as a substitute for pork in steamed buns, state media said on Thursday.

The reporter, identified only by the surname Zi, allegedly prepared the cardboard-based filling for the buns himself for the Beijing TV programme, which was aired last week by national broadcaster China Central Television, the two television stations said.

The allegations contained in Zi's programme were widely reported by domestic and foreign media, following a series of scandals over tainted food in China in recent months.

The Beijing municipal government issued a statement saying "investigations had found an employee surnamed Zi with Beijing Television fabricated and directed the sensational programme for higher audience ratings," the official China Daily said.

"Zi is being held under criminal custody," the newspaper said without saying what charges Zi might face.

China has previously convicted and imprisoned scores of people for spreading false rumours about health and other issues via the Internet or mobile telephone text messages.

Zi claimed to have found a vendor in Beijing's Chaoyang district who had mixed softened cardboard with pork fat to form the filling for the traditional buns, which are called baozi.

He used a hidden camera to film the man, but his report apparently did not allege that the problem of substituting other ingredients for pork was widespread.

The government statement said Zi had "provided all the cardboard and asked the vendor to soak it," the newspaper said.

The Beijing government said that its inspectors had examined baozi sellers across the city following Zi's report but found no similar problems.

Beijing TV apologized for "failing to check the authenticity of the report" and said it would "punish editors involved and make efforts to improve professional ethics of its staff."

Hey Mr AmericanGuy,

Looks like you're not a very smart man afterall.So much so for your chinese bun business story.The chinese reporter make up the story and you actually can believe it.

Same as what you believe in whatever our sg govt or media say.

Young man,let this be a learning process for you,doesn't mean being an academic makes you a smartman.

Experience in life plays and important part.You don't find these in your school books.

Hope you learn from this experience.Don't believe everything that is written or reported by the press.

So much so for your comments on chinese bun business theory.

Now who got the last laugh? lol

B-BOY · July 19, 2007

Good one sgthai, the one who laughs last laughs longest, 555555

AmericanGuy1066 · July 21, 2007