Can a school force a minor to get vaccinate or threaten with expulsion?

[Scott]

The biggest risk from the vaccine seems to be a small bump in the number of children who get myocarditis after the Pfizer vaccine.  Myocarditis is known as an 'enlarged' heart and is inflammation in the heart muscle. It is usually caused by a viral infection.  It can, of course, be serious, but so far studies show it is short-lived in those receiving the vaccine.  

As scary as it is to give a child the vaccine and run this very small risk, it should be remembered that if the child actually contracts Covid, their chances of getting Myocarditis is 37X higher.  

 

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/08/31/covid-myocarditis-risk-children-083121

 

 

[DavisH]

At  my school, as porbably most others, vaccination is voluntary. They have been collecting names of students who will be vaccinated. Everyone in my son's class has signed up, except for him, as he had a shot 2 weeks ago. That is 17-18 y.o. I would say the vasy majority will be vaccinated, but standard protocols will still apply when students return. There is no plan to exclude unvaccinated kids, as far as can tell. They will need to accept the risk they take. 

 

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, DavisH said:

At  my school, as porbably most others, vaccination is voluntary. They have been collecting names of students who will be vaccinated. Everyone in my son's class has signed up, except for him, as he had a shot 2 weeks ago. That is 17-18 y.o. I would say the vasy majority will be vaccinated, but standard protocols will still apply when students return. There is no plan to exclude unvaccinated kids, as far as can tell. They will need to accept the risk they take. 

 

Sadly, it's not just themselves they are putting at risk. That's the problem.

 

Congrats on your son. As mentioned above, this is a war. The worst one we've been in during modern times.

[Sunderland]

On 9/6/2021 at 4:47 PM, Callmeishmael said:

When school opened last year, some of the Thai teachers sat all of the P4 - P6 students down and talked at them for about 1/2 and hour about wearing masks, washing hands, etc..  They then asked me to say a few words. 

First I asked the kids what would happen if they caught Covid.  When they answered "We would die", I replied that of course they wouldn't die, 10 year olds don't die of Covid.

Then I asked them how many of lived in the same house as their grandparents.  About 1/3 of them raised their hands.  I then told them that is the reason why they should wear masks and wash their hands.  Not to protect themselves, but to protect their grandparents.

There were no vaccines a year ago, but there are now.  Students should get vaccinated to protect their grandparents and their classmates grandparents.

I think you are right to a degree. But if students are vaccinated it should only be when a vaccine is 100% approved for use by the FDA. Jumping the gun as many did with Sinopharm is not the way to go. Careless? Potentially.

I agree that grandparents need protecting and the whole country should have insisted through their representatives in Parliament that all the old and vulnerable were vaccinated way ahead of politicians, hotel workers, cabin crew and so on. We all know this is the morally and ethically right way to tackle the problem, but it was not done here.

[thaitorrent1]

3 minutes ago, Sunderland said:

I agree that grandparents need protecting

Sorry but I don't it's their duty to protect themselves if they don't want to die.

stopping the whole world for few millions very old people is insane, and vaccinating the whole world for the same purpose is even worst !

 

[thaitorrent1]

On 9/19/2021 at 1:07 PM, Jeffr2 said:

Sadly, it's not just themselves they are putting at risk. That's the problem.

 

So funny ! I read some of your posts and it seems that you are a bright provaxxer who think that everybody should be forced to.

Governments must be happy to have people like you who know nothing, just repeats what some idiots publish, but agree with everything.

Luckily I don't have bright scientists like you in my family !

 

[Jeffr2]

18 hours ago, thaitorrent1 said:

So funny ! I read some of your posts and it seems that you are a bright provaxxer who think that everybody should be forced to.

Governments must be happy to have people like you who know nothing, just repeats what some idiots publish, but agree with everything.

Luckily I don't have bright scientists like you in my family !

 

Really bizarre post.

[Jeffr2]

18 hours ago, thaitorrent1 said:

Sorry but I don't it's their duty to protect themselves if they don't want to die.

stopping the whole world for few millions very old people is insane, and vaccinating the whole world for the same purpose is even worst !

 

Clueless. And selfish. Sad some are ok with throwing the old and sick under the bus.

[lucky2008]

No one can force anyone to do anything.   

 

They can threaten with expulsion but vaccines will never be made mandatory. 



 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

No one can force anyone to do anything.   

 

They can threaten with expulsion but vaccines will never be made mandatory. 

 

I’m not so sure... Its still somewhat of a grey-area regarding what will happen. 

 

My Son has attended two International Schools in Bangkok - part of the admission process for both was to submit vaccination records. IF there was a ‘required’ vaccination missing there would be a requirement for him to take it. 

 

But, once students are ‘already admitted’ it may be difficult to push those resistant to their children taking the Covid-19 vaccine to vaccinate. 

 

It will of course be easier to control new admission and ensure they are vaccinated. 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

On 9/23/2021 at 9:32 PM, thaitorrent1 said:

So funny ! I read some of your posts and it seems that you are a bright provaxxer who think that everybody should be forced to.

Governments must be happy to have people like you who know nothing, just repeats what some idiots publish, but agree with everything.

Luckily I don't have bright scientists like you in my family !

Well, by your comments you’ve removed all doubt that the word ‘bright’ could never be associated with you, as for your family, we can’t tell. ????

 

 

[lucky2008]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

 

I’m not so sure... Its still somewhat of a grey-area regarding what will happen. 

 

My Son has attended two International Schools in Bangkok - part of the admission process for both was to submit vaccination records. IF there was a ‘required’ vaccination missing there would be a requirement for him to take it. 

 

But, once students are ‘already admitted’ it may be difficult to push those resistant to their children taking the Covid-19 vaccine to vaccinate. 

 

It will of course be easier to control new admission and ensure they are vaccinated. 

 

That wouldn't ever fly in the US and I doubt that's going to happen here.

Most likely there will be a non-medical waiver available for parents to sign. 
 

[richard_smith237]

52 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

That wouldn't ever fly in the US and I doubt that's going to happen here.

Most likely there will be a non-medical waiver available for parents to sign. 
 

We're not in the US - individual freedoms and rights mean a lot less here and private businesses (i.e. internationals schools) can do what they want, unless the Ministry of Education actively legislate against exclusion of those who have not been vaccinated. 

 

 

What ’non-medical’ waver do you mean ?.....

.... do you mean something in the manner of ‘if their kids catch Covid-19 they will not hold the school accountable?'

 

 

Ultimately, I think the issue is simply too big and too difficult to handle and the issues such as this will gently dissolve into the background - Once vaccines for children are approved, schools will simply ‘ask’ parents to ensure their kids are vaccinated and hope that most do. 

 

------

 

The issue is similar to business ensuring employees are vaccinated. 

In the Middle East - an employee is given no choice - take it or leave it, no recompense.

In the US - an employees rights would come first - I imagine they can’t be pushed to do anything. 

Thailand falls somewhere in between.... I suspect it will be similar with schools. 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, lucky2008 said:

No one can force anyone to do anything.   

 

They can threaten with expulsion but vaccines will never be made mandatory. 



 

Vaccibes are already mandatory in a variety of cases. Where do you get your information from? Jeez.

[lucky2008]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

What ’non-medical’ waver do you mean ?.....

.... do you mean something in the manner of ‘if their kids catch Covid-19 they will not hold the school accountable?'

 

Thailand falls somewhere in between.... I suspect it will be similar with schools. 

 

 

Yes that's exactly the type of waiver I'm referring to. 

I think so too. 
 

[lucky2008]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Vaccibes are already mandatory in a variety of cases. Where do you get your information from? Jeez.

Definitely not where you get yours from. 

Stop spreading fear, jezzz 

 

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Definitely not where you get yours from. 

Stop spreading fear, jezzz 

 

 

 

 

Fear is what anti vaxxers like you spread. Along with misinformation.

 

Vaccinations have been mandatory in many cases for a long time.

[Scott]

I suspect that schools will be able to mandate vaccines if you wish to attend school in person.  The use of the word 'mandate' is tricky.  Students and teachers can't be mandated to get a vaccine, but they can be mandated to have one to work.  One school I know of fired 6 teachers when they refused to get vaccinated.  

Knowing Thai parents, students and culture in general, I'd say it is going to be very difficult to allow some kids to be vaccinated and others not if it is available.  I suspect parents who have their children vaccinated will be quite vocal about unvaccinated kids in the same classroom.  I suspect older kids will be less than thrilled about kids who are not vaccinated. 

 

My experience with this was with two young children who were HIV positive and applied to a school and young girl, 8 years old with cancer.  I have no idea how word even got out about the HIV status of these two children, I don't recall their exact ages, but they were around 6 or 7.  The parents protested en masse and threatened to withdraw their children.  The teacher refused to teach them and would quit if they were admitted.  They weren't admitted.

 

The second was a young girl with cancer and parents did the same, but a she was an existing student and there was a meeting held and a doctor came and explained that nobody was going to catch cancer from her.  She had to wear a face mask to protect her from infections and parents eventually relented.

 

[mtls2005]

15 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

No one can force anyone to do anything.   

 

Well, the regime has pretty much unlimited power through a series of decrees, laws and self-granted amnesty/immunity. 

 

And there are already a number of mandatory required vaccines for infants and children.

 

So yes, the regime can force anyone to do anything. Whether they choose to do so remains to be seen. I suspect they'll use the velvet glove first.

 

 

[placeholder]

On 9/13/2021 at 2:01 AM, LongTimeLurker said:

Which is contradicted by this report stating that nearly double the amount of double vaccinated die than unvaccinated.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/how-many-double-jabbed-people-are-dying-from-covid-151218361.html

 

In the winter of 2018/2019 'flu killed more than 50,000 people in UK in a 4 month period, more than Covid did in the same period, but nobody batted an eyelid then and I bet Covid has not killed that many in any 4 month period since it was invented.

Here's a quote from the article you linked to:

"The only reason the number of vaccinated people is higher is because more people have been vaccinated.

For example in unvaccinated people over the age of 50, 6.5% of cases resulted in death compared to 2% of fully vaccinated over-50-year-olds."

What your simplistic approach doesn't take into account is not only that most people have been double vaccinated, but the age breakdown of those who have been vaccinated. The younger someone is, the less likely they are to have been vaccinated. So the valid comparison would compare how, in a specific age range, the unvaccinated fare compared to the vaccinated.

 

The ONS analysis found that after adjusting for age, the mortality rate from Covid-19 among fully vaccinated individuals in the week ended July 2 was 0.2 per 100,000 people, an eighth of the rate among the unvaccinated. Age-standardized mortality rates allow statisticians to exclude the possibility that differences in age between vaccinated and unvaccinated people explain discrepancies in death rates between the two groups.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-study-in-england-shows-few-deaths-among-vaccinated-11631549453

[placeholder]

On 9/13/2021 at 2:45 AM, 2009 said:

No, I posted the actual infographic and chart and one of our mods deleted it, so I won't bother.

 

You are missing the point that most children's parents and teachers are at a very low risk for serious covid. For most people it is like a bad flu.

 

If someone is at risk of serious complications THEY should be vaccinated and/or THEY should stay at home. This includes at risk children, like children with asthma, for example.

they deleted it because you didn't include a link to the source.

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Definitely not where you get yours from. 

Stop spreading fear, jezzz 

To be more precise, the question actually should be where do you pull your information from? Stop spreading falsehoods.

 https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

[lucky2008]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

To be more precise, the question actually should be where do you pull your information from? Stop spreading falsehoods.

 https://ourworldindata.org/childhood-vaccination-policies

Let's try to stay on topic old-timer. 

We're talking about if a school can force a minor to get a Covid-19 vaccine. 

The CDC and Prevention Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices is not going to place a vaccine on the mandatory schedule until it's been deemed safe.  The FDA has not approved the Pfizer BioNTech vaccines, nor any COVID vaccines for the 12- to 15-year age group, nor any booster doses for anyone. 

We have an absolute right to refuse EUA vaccines.

 

[placeholder]

43 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Let's try to stay on topic old-timer. 

We're talking about if a school can force a minor to get a Covid-19 vaccine. 

The CDC and Prevention Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices is not going to place a vaccine on the mandatory schedule until it's been deemed safe.  The FDA has not approved the Pfizer BioNTech vaccines, nor any COVID vaccines for the 12- to 15-year age group, nor any booster doses for anyone. 

We have an absolute right to refuse EUA vaccines.

 

Well, it's male 12-15 year olds. Not all 15 year olds. 

 

And it's you who contradicted others who pointed out that vaccination requirements in general were a thing for children to attend school.

 

And if you're referring to the US FDA,  in fact it has approved boosters

1)For people aged 65 or older. 

2)People aged 18-64 at high risk for severe covid-19.

3)And those in institutional or occupational situations that put them at high risk of coming down with severe complications of covid-19 including severe covid-19.

 

And as for predictions, they're about events that may happen in the future. Difficult to know about that with certainty, unless, of course, you're a time traveler.

 

As for your contention that "we have an absolute right to refuse EUA vaccines", the Pfizer- Biontech is no longer an EUA vaccine for those aged 18 or older. 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, lucky2008 said:

Let's try to stay on topic old-timer. 

We're talking about if a school can force a minor to get a Covid-19 vaccine. 

The CDC and Prevention Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices is not going to place a vaccine on the mandatory schedule until it's been deemed safe.  The FDA has not approved the Pfizer BioNTech vaccines, nor any COVID vaccines for the 12- to 15-year age group, nor any booster doses for anyone. 

We have an absolute right to refuse EUA vaccines.

 

Don't post misinformation. Pfizer is not an EUA vaccine. And will be fully FDA approved for younger people soon. Hopefully, before the end of October.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Don't post misinformation. Pfizer is not an EUA vaccine. And will be fully FDA approved for younger people soon. Hopefully, before the end of October.

Facts, shmacts.

[lucky2008]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

As for your contention that "we have an absolute right to refuse EUA vaccines", the Pfizer- Biontech is no longer an EUA vaccine for those aged 18 or older. 

 

You are wrong too. 

I'll give you both some time to do some research. 

[Scott]

A post containing false or misleading information has been reported and removed.  

 

[Jeffr2]

41 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

You are wrong too. 

I'll give you both some time to do some research. 

Looks like you were proven wrong. Again.

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

You are wrong too. 

I'll give you both some time to do some research. 

Thanks for your generous grant of time. After some investigation, It looks like not only did we get it wrong about full FDA approval, but so did the FDA:

"Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the first COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty (koe-mir’-na-tee), for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older. The vaccine also continues to be available under emergency use authorization (EUA), including for individuals 12 through 15 years of age and for the administration of a third dose in certain immunocompromised individuals."

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine

I do grant you that I wrote the full approval was for 18 years and up, but it turns out it's for 16 years and up. Anyway, thanks for correcting us and the FDA. You might want to drop them a note informing them that they are mistaken.

 

As for boosters:

"Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration amended the emergency use authorization (EUA) for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to allow for use of a single booster dose, to be administered at least six months after completion of the primary series in:

• individuals 65 years of age and older;
• individuals 18 through 64 years of age at high risk of severe COVID-19; and 
• individuals 18 through 64 years of age whose frequent institutional or occupational exposure to SARS-CoV-2 puts them at high risk of serious complications of COVID-19 including severe COVID-19."

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-authorizes-booster-dose-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-certain-populations

Once again thanks for the corrections. Be sure to get on the FDA about this as well and save them from persisting in error.  I just hope that in the future the FDA will send you proposed versions of its press releases before they go ahead with releasing them and foolishly contradicting you.