New Farm Pond

[Gary A]

They started digging my pond today. At about three meters down they started hitting some pretty big rocks and it appears that the water table right there is only a bit more than one meter down. Water started seeping in and just today there is nearly a third of a meter of water in it already. It is pretty obvious that the pond is not going to amount to much as I'm pretty sure it will go up and down with the water table. I downsized it from the one rai plan to a little more than a half a rai. At one place in the bank, water was actually squirting out. It's going to be just a big dug well. I had plans for a nice little recreation area but it appear it will simply be an irrigation pond.

[ozzydom]

They started digging my pond today. At about three meters down they started hitting some pretty big rocks and it appears that the water table right there is only a bit more than one meter down. Water started seeping in and just today there is nearly a third of a meter of water in it already. It is pretty obvious that the pond is not going to amount to much as I'm pretty sure it will go up and down with the water table. I downsized it from the one rai plan to a little more than a half a rai. At one place in the bank, water was actually squirting out. It's going to be just a big dug well. I had plans for a nice little recreation area but it appear it will simply be an irrigation pond.

It may not be all bad news Gary, the rocks can also be an indication of an ancient river bed which can be channelling water from surrounding areas,if it is you should not get huge variations of depth as you would if it is the actual water table.

Once the water settles a check of its quality will give you a good indication of what you have struck.

[Maizefarmer]

As Ozzydom suggested - check the quality: go round to your local freshwater/tropical fish dealer, and purchase a water quality test kit.

I use them to check my bore hole water every 6 months or so, or after there has been a load of rain or a long dry period. A decent kit will enable you to check all the following:

- Alkalinity

- Chloride

- Nitrate

- Nitrite

- Sulfate

- pH

-Sulfide

- Iron

.... I think that pretty much as much as you'll every need to check (???)

Not expensive - around Baht 330 - 470 (should be good for around 1year, or about 10 - 12 tests).

MF

[Gary A]

Thanks guys. I'll buy a water test kit and wait to see how high the water level gets. If the water is suitable for irrigation, it may work out OK. By the looks of the volcanic iron containing rocks, I expect the iron level to be VERY high. The water squirting out of the banks is as clear as tap water. Then there remains the mountains of dirt. I have had it piled along mainly one side and I hope it will be easy to give it away.

[Tilapia]

If you are planning to have fish in the pond, then you shoul use some of the soil to build a dam around the pond, around 0.5-1m high, specially if you want cat-fish.

Tilapia.

[Gary A]

If you are planning to have fish in the pond, then you shoul use some of the soil to build a dam around the pond, around 0.5-1m high, specially if you want cat-fish.

Tilapia.

I'm afraid that fish are out of the question. All the ponds in the area are frequently seined by thieves and ALL the fish are kept. They make that foul smelling pala from even tiny fish. One reason I wanted a deep pond is to prevent the seining and that would make harvesting crop fish difficult also. Most of the local ponds around this area are not much more than chest deep. It will be interesting to watch the water level during the dry season.

[Tilapia]

If you are planning to have fish in the pond, then you shoul use some of the soil to build a dam around the pond, around 0.5-1m high, specially if you want cat-fish.

Tilapia.

I'm afraid that fish are out of the question. All the ponds in the area are frequently seined by thieves and ALL the fish are kept. They make that foul smelling pala from even tiny fish. One reason I wanted a deep pond is to prevent the seining and that would make harvesting crop fish difficult also. Most of the local ponds around this area are not much more than chest deep. It will be interesting to watch the water level during the dry season.

I don't think your water level will drop much, where I'm located we have the ground-water 2-3 meters down, and my ponds never dry out at any time. Sad about the thieves, I have 2 Rottweilers there are looking for a new home, if you are interested.

Tilapia

[Gary A]

If you are planning to have fish in the pond, then you shoul use some of the soil to build a dam around the pond, around 0.5-1m high, specially if you want cat-fish.

Tilapia.

I'm afraid that fish are out of the question. All the ponds in the area are frequently seined by thieves and ALL the fish are kept. They make that foul smelling pala from even tiny fish. One reason I wanted a deep pond is to prevent the seining and that would make harvesting crop fish difficult also. Most of the local ponds around this area are not much more than chest deep. It will be interesting to watch the water level during the dry season.

I don't think your water level will drop much, where I'm located we have the ground-water 2-3 meters down, and my ponds never dry out at any time. Sad about the thieves, I have 2 Rottweilers there are looking for a new home, if you are interested.

Tilapia

No thanks to the dogs. I'd have a hard time training them to stay on the ten rai without any fence and being 3 1/2 kilometers from our home makes feeding them a bit of an inconvenience also. You may be right about the water level. There are VERY few bore holes in the area.

[Crushdepth]

If you want to annoy fish thieves, lay a coil or two of barbed wire in the pond (or around the edges if they use cast nets). They'll never get their net back.

Don't forget to drag the wire out before you try to harvest

[OOLEEBER]

If you want to annoy fish thieves, lay a coil or two of barbed wire in the pond (or around the edges if they use cast nets). They'll never get their net back.

Don't forget to drag the wire out before you try to harvest

Wow - I love that Idea. - thanks Crushdepth.

[Maizefarmer]

If you want to annoy fish thieves, lay a coil or two of barbed wire in the pond (or around the edges if they use cast nets). They'll never get their net back.

Don't forget to drag the wire out before you try to harvest

Wow - I love that Idea. - thanks Crushdepth.

Heres another idea - easier to take out come harvest time (what the hel_l - add the barbed wire as well!!)

Add some re-bar/broom sticks - stick them in the mud with the tops about 6" above the bottom of the pond (of course well below the surface of the water).

Break some bottles, epoxy broken pieces glass to the along the edge of the sticks facing in towards the center of the pond (they always drag the net from the centre to the edge). A half dozen lengths will spread round will do just fine - don't think I need explain what will happen to the net when they pull it in!!

MF

[RedBullHorn]

If you want to annoy fish thieves, lay a coil or two of barbed wire in the pond (or around the edges if they use cast nets). They'll never get their net back.

Don't forget to drag the wire out before you try to harvest

I zig-zag my double coil 5 meters from the edge of my pond hidden in the water...I caught 4

casting net so far ...My neighbours said they're all good expensive nets...Oh boy! They must be pissed!

[macb]

If you are planning to have fish in the pond, then you shoul use some of the soil to build a dam around the pond, around 0.5-1m high, specially if you want cat-fish.

Tilapia.

I'm afraid that fish are out of the question. All the ponds in the area are frequently seined by thieves and ALL the fish are kept. They make that foul smelling pala from even tiny fish. One reason I wanted a deep pond is to prevent the seining and that would make harvesting crop fish difficult also. Most of the local ponds around this area are not much more than chest deep. It will be interesting to watch the water level during the dry season.

I don't think your water level will drop much, where I'm located we have the ground-water 2-3 meters down, and my ponds never dry out at any time. Sad about the thieves, I have 2 Rottweilers there are looking for a new home, if you are interested.

Tilapia

How old are you Rotties send me a PM : Imay be interested if nor I know A Farang looking for his Pig Farm Security: Need your location and some History Age etc

Edited June 1, 2007 by macb

[bubbaba]

If you are planning to have fish in the pond, then you shoul use some of the soil to build a dam around the pond, around 0.5-1m high, specially if you want cat-fish.

Tilapia.

Why do you put a dam around the pond?

I recently had a large hold dug on our property so that we could use the dirt to back fill our yard where we are building a new home. Due to some heavy run off because of the recent heavy downpours I have many washed out areas around my pond/hole.

We want to turn it into a fish pond. For sure stocked with some cats. I know that I will need to use cement. Not sure of the process. I have been reading lately about ferro-cement. Is that worth considering. At best I can tell I am about 30 feet above the water table in this area. I have some water in the pond now because it storms a lot lately. Drought time comes I am sure it will be very dry with out cement or something.

What suggestions, instructions, advice can you offer. I welcome all. I live 13 kilometers south of Khorat.

[RedBullHorn]

If you are planning to have fish in the pond, then you shoul use some of the soil to build a dam around the pond, around 0.5-1m high, specially if you want cat-fish.

Tilapia.

Why do you put a dam around the pond?

My ponds and farm plots are in between two stream, my dams are all 1.8m high. Survived flash flood. 5 yrs back when i was rearing Big Ooi, when it rains, my cat fish will try to crawl out from the perimeter ...the surrounding dam help keep them at bay.

Edited June 1, 2007 by RedBullHorn

[Gary A]

If you are going to have a pond dug, start by getting an hourly price for the excavator. That's just a starting point. After that get a price for the completed project. They don't like to give a quote so you have to insist on the quote. They will definitely want to work by the hour. One major detail is that there are many different size excavators. Naturally a bigger newer machine will complete the job a lot faster. They were using a rather small Kobelco P120 machine for my pond. It started having mechanical problems and work was slowed considerably. If I had been paying by the hour I would have been quite upset. Now with the pond about 60 percent complete the excavator has died. The guy wanted paid in advance so he could have the machine repaired. I paid him a total of half. After the first day, I paid him 9,000 baht. After the breakdown, another 10,000. The total complete price is 38,000. For an extra 2,000 baht he is going to remove two large termite mounds and the small trees around them.

[Tilapia]

I have all my ponds done by a fixed m3 price, including 10 wheel truck to move the soil and a tractor to level it. The last pond I had done was 2 month ago, the size is 3.5 rai 5.600m2 and I paid 27 baht/m3.

Tilapia.

[Gary A]

I have all my ponds done by a fixed m3 price, including 10 wheel truck to move the soil and a tractor to level it. The last pond I had done was 2 month ago, the size is 3.5 rai 5.600m2 and I paid 27 baht/m3.

Tilapia.

It appears that it is costing me about 16 baht per cubic meter but I still have the mountains of dirt to contend with. I'm hoping someone will want the dirt and will haul it away. There is also a possibility that there is property nearby that has a dry pond and the dirt could be used to salvage that land. I should be able to buy land like that pretty cheap. I think it is taking about as long to move the dirt away from the pond as it is taking to dig the hole.

[Gary A]

I had originally posted that it was a Kobelco. It is actually a Komatsu.

[Tilapia]

I have all my ponds done by a fixed m3 price, including 10 wheel truck to move the soil and a tractor to level it. The last pond I had done was 2 month ago, the size is 3.5 rai 5.600m2 and I paid 27 baht/m3.

Tilapia.

It appears that it is costing me about 16 baht per cubic meter but I still have the mountains of dirt to contend with. I'm hoping someone will want the dirt and will haul it away. There is also a possibility that there is property nearby that has a dry pond and the dirt could be used to salvage that land. I should be able to buy land like that pretty cheap. I think it is taking about as long to move the dirt away from the pond as it is taking to dig the hole.

Yes it does, plus that you have to pay the baco again for loading it on the truck, and for the truck to haul it away, unless you can find someone to buy the soil from you. In most cases the people with the baco know who needs to back-fill some land, maybe they can help.

Tilapia.

[Maizefarmer]

###### -wish my top soil was that thick.

Thats a good profile for a pond you have there, Gary -the sides won't need much reinforcing, that whitish lower layer stays stable and holds water well - but on the subject of checking the water quailty: the ph is going to be real alkaline.

You may like to consider this: for the top section (where the top soil is) - cut it back another meter or so at around 45degrees angle with a flat bottom, so you have a kind of ledge, then fill the ledge with rocks so you have a wall about 70cm thick from the ledge to the top. Then cast a 6"x6" square rim at the bottom of the ledge, right up gainst the rocks (with some re-bar in it) - that will act as a lip to hold the stones up right in the wall as you fill the pond and it all settles. Will work great.

M

Edited June 3, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[Cuban]

I have all my ponds done by a fixed m3 price, including 10 wheel truck to move the soil and a tractor to level it. The last pond I had done was 2 month ago, the size is 3.5 rai 5.600m2 and I paid 27 baht/m3.

I am aware different locations and people will encounter different "deals" however my experiance is that in pond digging situations the pond owner get the hole dug for free while the person wanting the soil pays by the truck load. I've seen prices in the range 60 - 90 Baht per cubic metre of soil delivered to site, with cost of a bull dozer either included or extra.

I'm currently taking delivery of some fill at a lower price that locals have recently paid, based on higher volume and a shorter run from the pond to my land.

Are your diggers finding it hard to off load the soil dug or are they going a long way to dump it?

( Or making cash on both sides of the deal?

[Gary A]

I have all my ponds done by a fixed m3 price, including 10 wheel truck to move the soil and a tractor to level it. The last pond I had done was 2 month ago, the size is 3.5 rai 5.600m2 and I paid 27 baht/m3.

I am aware different locations and people will encounter different "deals" however my experiance is that in pond digging situations the pond owner get the hole dug for free while the person wanting the soil pays by the truck load. I've seen prices in the range 60 - 90 Baht per cubic metre of soil delivered to site, with cost of a bull dozer either included or extra.

I'm currently taking delivery of some fill at a lower price that locals have recently paid, based on higher volume and a shorter run from the pond to my land.

Are your diggers finding it hard to off load the soil dug or are they going a long way to dump it?

( Or making cash on both sides of the deal?

The dirt still belongs to me and none has been hauled away. The land is located about 3 kilometers from a paved road so it's not an ideal location. The dirt is there for the taking and if someone can make a few baht hauling it away and selling it, it's OK with me.

[Somtham]

I have all my ponds done by a fixed m3 price, including 10 wheel truck to move the soil and a tractor to level it. The last pond I had done was 2 month ago, the size is 3.5 rai 5.600m2 and I paid 27 baht/m3.

I am aware different locations and people will encounter different "deals" however my experiance is that in pond digging situations the pond owner get the hole dug for free while the person wanting the soil pays by the truck load. I've seen prices in the range 60 - 90 Baht per cubic metre of soil delivered to site, with cost of a bull dozer either included or extra.

I'm currently taking delivery of some fill at a lower price that locals have recently paid, based on higher volume and a shorter run from the pond to my land.

Are your diggers finding it hard to off load the soil dug or are they going a long way to dump it?

( Or making cash on both sides of the deal?

The dirt still belongs to me and none has been hauled away. The land is located about 3 kilometers from a paved road so it's not an ideal location. The dirt is there for the taking and if someone can make a few baht hauling it away and selling it, it's OK with me.

We just bought fill dirt last week at B800/truckload. It was hauled in from maybe 4-5km away.

rgds

[Gary A]

###### -wish my top soil was that thick.

Thats a good profile for a pond you have there, Gary -the sides won't need much reinforcing, that whitish lower layer stays stable and holds water well - but on the subject of checking the water quailty: the ph is going to be real alkaline.

You may like to consider this: for the top section (where the top soil is) - cut it back another meter or so at around 45degrees angle with a flat bottom, so you have a kind of ledge, then fill the ledge with rocks so you have a wall about 70cm thick from the ledge to the top. Then cast a 6"x6" square rim at the bottom of the ledge, right up gainst the rocks (with some re-bar in it) - that will act as a lip to hold the stones up right in the wall as you fill the pond and it all settles. Will work great.

M

I'll wait to see where the water level ends up before I do anything else. Since I have tilled everything except the wet corner I have been impressed with the soil. It appears to be quite fertile. My wife's aunt has planted some peanuts and corn as well as red peppers and something else that I don't recognize. It is all growing like gangbusters. That said, I'm glad I don't have to make any money. It's just a fun thing for me. The idea of a pond for recreation is totally lost on the Thais. I told them I wanted a pond shaped like a mango and it is turning out to be a perfect rectangle with very square corners. I explained that if a kid falls in that I don't want them to drown. The one finished bank is no more that 45 degrees. If someone falls into that pond they will struggle to get out. I may have a lot to do with the tractor pushing dirt back into the pond if the water level is high enough.

[chownah]

I've got an idea....probably a bad one.

Seems like you've got alot of dirt. Why not build a retaining wall....two walls actually that meet in a 90 degree corner so the inside of the corner faces the pond and the two wall go outwards and end up near the pond so that you have set of a rougly triangular area with retaining walls on two side and the pond as the hypotenuse of the triangle. Make the retaining wall about 3 metres tall and then fill in the triangle with the dirt...right up to the pond...you might even want to build a retaining wall along the edge of the pond (difficult to do but possible with some driven piles or other fancy engineering) too...or place some rocks to steepen up the slope...or build some stairs down to the pond...or some of all of the above...whatever. You would then have a nice 3 metre high platform of dirt with a nice drop down to the pond. Then on top of the retaining wall build a privacy wall...either low or high depending on how private you want to be or how much view you want to enjoy...and build a sala (purgola?)..plant some flowering trees or fruit trees or both and.....voila a little private garden in the sky. The Thais would think you were totally nuts until they saw what you had created and then I think they'd be impressed......of course this probably means that I am totally nuts but I think its a great idea.

Chownah

P.S. Ideally you would want to grow some coconuts around the pond somewhere and a lime tree so that you could catch a fish, pick a coconut and some lime and cook the fish in their juices right there in your garden in the sky.

Chownah

Edited June 3, 2007 by chownah

[Tilapia]

I have all my ponds done by a fixed m3 price, including 10 wheel truck to move the soil and a tractor to level it. The last pond I had done was 2 month ago, the size is 3.5 rai 5.600m2 and I paid 27 baht/m3.

I am aware different locations and people will encounter different "deals" however my experiance is that in pond digging situations the pond owner get the hole dug for free while the person wanting the soil pays by the truck load. I've seen prices in the range 60 - 90 Baht per cubic metre of soil delivered to site, with cost of a bull dozer either included or extra.

I'm currently taking delivery of some fill at a lower price that locals have recently paid, based on higher volume and a shorter run from the pond to my land.

Are your diggers finding it hard to off load the soil dug or are they going a long way to dump it?

( Or making cash on both sides of the deal?

In my case, I have used all the soil to back-fill other places of our land, but it seems not to easy for the contractors around here to find people willing to buy the soil, this year has been very slow, due to high fuel prices and the lack of cash money people has availible.

It looks like you got yourself a good deal

Tilapia.

[Gary A]

The pond is finished and I did do as Tilapia suggested and did build a dike around the pond. It is several meters from the actual pond bank and over a meter high. It is wide enough to drive on. I elevated a road from the farm access road to the pond and the majority of dirt is piled at the end much higher than that road to facilitate hauling some dirt out at a later date. I was disappointed that the pond ended up about 4 times longer than it is wide and it is rectangular rather than oval shaped. Maybe they are smarter than I am and did it for a reason. ??? To prevent any misunderstanding before they started, I gave them a mango and told them that I wanted the pond shaped like the mango. That DIDN'T happen. My wife had told them that if they did a good job she would give them four bottles of Lao Kao and two ducks. They didn't get anything other than an earful from her.

[Somtham]

The pond is finished and I did do as Tilapia suggested and did build a dike around the pond. It is several meters from the actual pond bank and over a meter high. It is wide enough to drive on. I elevated a road from the farm access road to the pond and the majority of dirt is piled at the end much higher than that road to facilitate hauling some dirt out at a later date. I was disappointed that the pond ended up about 4 times longer than it is wide and it is rectangular rather than oval shaped. Maybe they are smarter than I am and did it for a reason. ??? To prevent any misunderstanding before they started, I gave them a mango and told them that I wanted the pond shaped like the mango. That DIDN'T happen. My wife had told them that if they did a good job she would give them four bottles of Lao Kao and two ducks. They didn't get anything other than an earful from her.

Sometimes ya just gaotta stand there and watch and correct on the spot....or, maybe the excavator operator drank his own 4 bottles of lao kao and thought the pond looked like a mango sliced upin khao nieo ma muang. Who knows.

Send us a pic of the final pond if you have time.

rgds

[Tilapia]

The pond is finished and I did do as Tilapia suggested and did build a dike around the pond. It is several meters from the actual pond bank and over a meter high. It is wide enough to drive on. I elevated a road from the farm access road to the pond and the majority of dirt is piled at the end much higher than that road to facilitate hauling some dirt out at a later date. I was disappointed that the pond ended up about 4 times longer than it is wide and it is rectangular rather than oval shaped. Maybe they are smarter than I am and did it for a reason. ??? To prevent any misunderstanding before they started, I gave them a mango and told them that I wanted the pond shaped like the mango. That DIDN'T happen. My wife had told them that if they did a good job she would give them four bottles of Lao Kao and two ducks. They didn't get anything other than an earful from her.

Look at the bright side, now you dont have to worry that the pond will over-flow. I think the reason for the shape is, that the baco couldent reach long enough (side-ways) so instead of moving the dirt twice, he just made it longer. Serves him right to get an earfull......

Tilapia.