Leaving Bkk On Us Pp And Reentering On Thai Pp...issues?

[Tonsils]

As background, I'm a dual citizen (Thai/US), who entered on a US PP a while ago. So after much time and numerous trips to immigration for one-year visas and address checks, I finally got a brand new, fresh Thai passport. This weekend, I'm leaving BKK for Europe and am planning to leave as an American. In two weeks, I plan on entering the country as a Thai citizen on a fresh passport.

After reading numerous posts on this forum, some people have said that this shouldn't be an issue. Others have posted about being denied being stamped in on the Thai PP. Another dual citizen at my work place has had the same issue. He left for Singapore (on US PP) and was not allowed in on a Thai PP, two days later.

Two questions:

1: Is it possible to get two separate stamps on departure (departure in both US PP and Thai PP)?

2: If I get pulled out of line at immigration to discuss how I left two weeks ago on one passport and am now reentering, can I insist that I get stamped on my Thai PP? Any tips on making sure this happens? I don't think I can say I got my Thai passport overseas, since they'll know I just left about two weeks earlier.

Sorry if this has been discussed thoroughly somewhere. I've had this problem going back two years ago when Don Muang wouldn't stamp my Thai passport while coming back from HK (I had left two days before on US PP)

Thanks! T.

[samran]

hi tonsils,

it is indeed a hard one to answer in the sense you are right that reports here are 50/50 in terms of who gets stamped in with no problems, and who doesn't.

1) I don't think this is possible, but ask and explian why you are doing it. You don't know until you ask.

2) Very possible as far as y personal experience goes. Back in the mid 90's when i first did enter on my Thai PP without an exit stamp, I did encounter an immigration official who refused to stamp me in on the Thai PP (this was down in Sadao on the Thai malaysian border). I insisted on seeing the duty officer who after some discussion on why I was entiltled to two passports nodded his head and commanded that I be stamped in as a Thai.

I think the key issue here is that the immigration officer at the desk who does the stamping job, is often very junior and without much discretion. The less experienced ones will basically not know what to do when they don't see a corresponding exit stamp and arrivals card already stapled into your passport. If they refuse you, my best advice would be to ask to speak to the superior, who should let them stamp you in, as is your right. Don't let them bully you.

I've advised quite a few others here via personal mail to do the same, and for those who have reported back to me, they have succeeded in getting in....but only after speaking to the big boss who can make things happen. One guy recently after an extended time in Australia has come back to live here full time and managed to do it. Another example is my mother, who in 2001 started coming and going on her Thai PP.

Your other option I suppose is simply to leave on your thai PP, enter Europe on your US PP, and then return on your Thai PP. As you will get a departure stamp in your Thai PP, you will have no issues with re-entry. I travel quite frequently doing the passport swap, and never a problem. The only down side I can see here is that as far as immigration are concerned, your immigration status in your US passport will remain outstanding.

All the best in what ever you do.

[Tonsils]

Samran,

Thanks so much for your help. I'll be sure to write up a report on what happens next. Thanks again, T.

[TerryLH]

"Your other option I suppose is simply to leave on your thai PP, enter Europe on your US PP, and then return on your Thai PP. As you will get a departure stamp in your Thai PP, you will have no issues with re-entry. I travel quite frequently doing the passport swap, and never a problem. The only down side I can see here is that as far as immigration are concerned, your immigration status in your US passport will remain outstanding."

Samran usually gives good advice, but I'd be wary of this one. Even he mentions a possible problem.

Worst case scenario, you leave and enter on Thai PP. Imm thinks you're still here as an American. You lose your Thai PP which shows you left the county, and they charge you with an overstay on the US passport.

Farfetched? Maybe, but why take the chance. Samran's first piece of advice seems the more reasonable way to go. Leave on US PP and reenter on Thai PP.

Good luck.

[Mahout Angrit]

My opinion based on the reply to this letter in the Phuket Gazette is that you should present both passports on your exit from Thailand thereby completing your visit as an american and starting your excursion as a Thai.

You could always ask the immigration dept exactly what you should do as you have two legal passports which you are entitled to so have nothing to hide.

[JimGant]

The wife left last Dec on her US passport, but also carrying a brand new Thai passport issued in Bangkok, which was not shown to Immigration upon exit. In January, we flew back to Thailand from the States, and she went to the "Thai only" immigration line with her virgin Thai passport. They did ask if she had her old Thai passport with her, which she did not, then, without further discussion, they stamped her in. She didn't even have to explain why there was no exit stamp. The only curiosity shown was in the passport itself, which was the new biometric kind and which had not been seen before by the Immigration Officer.

Just in case they had demanded to see her US passport -- then stamped her in on that -- I had it with me so that she could truthfully say she *didn't* have it with her. But they never even asked for it -- or about it.

What could be the worst case scenario? That the Immigration Officer got befuddled about the stampless Thai passport and had to call over a supervisor. I'd be close at hand to produce the US passport, if warranted. But by this time someone in the know about dual citizenship would be on top of the situation -- and having to enter Thailand on her US passport shouldn't have to happen. (But, of course, we are talking about Thai Immigration...........)

[samran]

"Your other option I suppose is simply to leave on your thai PP, enter Europe on your US PP, and then return on your Thai PP. As you will get a departure stamp in your Thai PP, you will have no issues with re-entry. I travel quite frequently doing the passport swap, and never a problem. The only down side I can see here is that as far as immigration are concerned, your immigration status in your US passport will remain outstanding."

Samran usually gives good advice, but I'd be wary of this one. Even he mentions a possible problem.

Worst case scenario, you leave and enter on Thai PP. Imm thinks you're still here as an American. You lose your Thai PP which shows you left the county, and they charge you with an overstay on the US passport.

Farfetched? Maybe, but why take the chance. Samran's first piece of advice seems the more reasonable way to go. Leave on US PP and reenter on Thai PP.

Good luck.

Actually, Terry, you are absolutely correct. I tried to show my hestitancy when I wrote it, but on reflection, it by fair is the worst options. I'm also glad Jim Gant has replied, showing a recent example. Others have appoched me as I've said, but unless they are willing to identify themselves, I'd rather not name them (even if I only know them by the log in Nic's anyway!)

Jim and Terry - cheers!

[Tonsils]

"Your other option I suppose is simply to leave on your thai PP, enter Europe on your US PP, and then return on your Thai PP. As you will get a departure stamp in your Thai PP, you will have no issues with re-entry. I travel quite frequently doing the passport swap, and never a problem. The only down side I can see here is that as far as immigration are concerned, your immigration status in your US passport will remain outstanding."

Samran usually gives good advice, but I'd be wary of this one. Even he mentions a possible problem.

Worst case scenario, you leave and enter on Thai PP. Imm thinks you're still here as an American. You lose your Thai PP which shows you left the county, and they charge you with an overstay on the US passport.

Farfetched? Maybe, but why take the chance. Samran's first piece of advice seems the more reasonable way to go. Leave on US PP and reenter on Thai PP.

Good luck.

Actually, Terry, you are absolutely correct. I tried to show my hestitancy when I wrote it, but on reflection, it by fair is the worst options. I'm also glad Jim Gant has replied, showing a recent example. Others have appoched me as I've said, but unless they are willing to identify themselves, I'd rather not name them (even if I only know them by the log in Nic's anyway!)

Jim and Terry - cheers!

Perfect. Thanks so much for all your help!

[Tonsils]

I just wanted to add a quick update. Two weeks ago, I left Thailand using my US passport. On the way out, I asked the immigration officer if I could exit with the US passport and also have my brand new Thai PP stamped out as well. He said no and just told me to show both passports when I get back, in order to be checked in on the THai PP.

This morning, I arrived in Bangkok and finally entered using my Thai passport. No problems at all. The woman at the desk just asked me to step out of line and talk to her superior officer, who scolded me slightly about using two passports and complicating their recordkeeping and computer data. But she eventually stamped me in! Yeh!

[Badbanker]

I also have 2 passport from different countries. It always really really confuses people who think that I am doing something illegal. When they see it is me in both they calm down a bit.

I once had an issue that I needed to get a stamp into my passport to show my itinery and begged the Swiss Immigration officer to stamp my passport. He grudingly complied and when I came back to Thailand I used this passport with the stamp which everyone was happy with.

Showing 2 passports in Thai tax offices does cause consternation and I would not advise it at all!

I would not tell Immigration any more than I have to.

Badbanker

[jimmym40]

I also have 2 passport from different countries. It always really really confuses people who think that I am doing something illegal. When they see it is me in both they calm down a bit.

I once had an issue that I needed to get a stamp into my passport to show my itinery and begged the Swiss Immigration officer to stamp my passport. He grudingly complied and when I came back to Thailand I used this passport with the stamp which everyone was happy with.

Showing 2 passports in Thai tax offices does cause consternation and I would not advise it at all!

I would not tell Immigration any more than I have to.

I know people have done it and are still getting away with it, using two passports. As everyone posted, there WERE questions asked at immigration upon entering/departing. And we all know that thai immigration is tightening the strings and will eventually realize that dual citizenship (US and Thai) is now illegal. I don't exactly, but my guess is at least 10 yrs ago, you could have dual citizenship. I checked this out with US Immigration and also my Thai wife checked with the consulate in LA. She was told if she gets a US passport, she must turn in all her Thai ID cards including her pp. This was just over a year ago. And as we all know, you talk to three different thais, and you get three different answers.

So, just a warning, be cautious. Requirements change rapidly...

[samran]

I just wanted to add a quick update. Two weeks ago, I left Thailand using my US passport. On the way out, I asked the immigration officer if I could exit with the US passport and also have my brand new Thai PP stamped out as well. He said no and just told me to show both passports when I get back, in order to be checked in on the THai PP.

This morning, I arrived in Bangkok and finally entered using my Thai passport. No problems at all. The woman at the desk just asked me to step out of line and talk to her superior officer, who scolded me slightly about using two passports and complicating their recordkeeping and computer data. But she eventually stamped me in! Yeh!

congrats!!

This will make at least one other member happy. Nordyls has had similar problems.

On a general 'I told you so note' on this issue, I've always maintained that the real reason that immigration didn't like stamping you in on a Thai PP (if you didn't have the corresponding exit stamp) was because it screwed up their record keeping system, rather than being an inherent problem with dual nationality laws. Insisting to be let in on the Thai PP just means they have to work that little bit harder!

[samran]

I also have 2 passport from different countries. It always really really confuses people who think that I am doing something illegal. When they see it is me in both they calm down a bit.

I once had an issue that I needed to get a stamp into my passport to show my itinery and begged the Swiss Immigration officer to stamp my passport. He grudingly complied and when I came back to Thailand I used this passport with the stamp which everyone was happy with.

Showing 2 passports in Thai tax offices does cause consternation and I would not advise it at all!

I would not tell Immigration any more than I have to.

I know people have done it and are still getting away with it, using two passports. As everyone posted, there WERE questions asked at immigration upon entering/departing. And we all know that thai immigration is tightening the strings and will eventually realize that dual citizenship (US and Thai) is now illegal. I don't exactly, but my guess is at least 10 yrs ago, you could have dual citizenship. I checked this out with US Immigration and also my Thai wife checked with the consulate in LA. She was told if she gets a US passport, she must turn in all her Thai ID cards including her pp. This was just over a year ago. And as we all know, you talk to three different thais, and you get three different answers.

So, just a warning, be cautious. Requirements change rapidly...

Jimmy40,

I suggest you take a look at the many posts on this issue. It is very certain that your wife was given extremely misleading advice, which was highly unfortunate.

Thai laws were last ammended in 1992 on this matter, which paved the way for allowing Thais to hold dual nationality. That was the last time the laws were changed, and now brings Thailand into line with most developed western nations on this issue.

A quick look at the website of the Thai embassy website in Washington DC will help allay your fears. It is no longer the case that a Thai lady has to give up her nationality if she naturalises as a foreigner.

[lopburi3]

Thailand, like the USA, does not have any law that allows dual citizenship. But they also do not have any law that prohibits it. So as a practical manner it is allowed. There has not been any recent change except for discussions specific to Malaysia due to the current border situation.

As for US Immigration don't know who you asked but there is no law against dual citizenship. The only restriction is that those with a US passport must use that passport to enter or leave the USA.

[jimmym40]

Thailand, like the USA, does not have any law that allows dual citizenship. But they also do not have any law that prohibits it. So as a practical manner it is allowed. There has not been any recent change except for discussions specific to Malaysia due to the current border situation.

As for US Immigration don't know who you asked but there is no law against dual citizenship. The only restriction is that those with a US passport must use that passport to enter or leave the USA.

Okay, there are going to be many variations of these "laws". As I know, you cannot always believe what you even see in writing about the thai laws because the people you come in contact with (at immigration) do what they want to do. My conviction is that you are only asking for trouble (at some point) if you use two passports to enter/leave the country.

I quit using the services on the thai consulate in LA because they always gave us a hassle for one reason or another. That's where we were told the wife would have to give up her thai identifications. So maybe, it is not illegal, but surely not know widespread to the thai immigration officials. Why would they question it? They maybe let you go, stamp both passports because we all know (those of us that been in Thailand for some time) that the thai people "always" take the easiest way out.

I think the law changes every time someone comes up to immigration and produces two passports - they make their own law up at the time.