Barbed Wire

[whitevan73]

Hi

Me and my wife are going to LOS in July and we need to put up a barbed wire fence. In this country (UK) you can buy a rachet to pull the wire tight. Can you buy these in Thailand or do i need to pack one in the suitcase? We will be in Khon Kean. We are also looking for a drilling divice that attaches to the back of a tractor. I can only explain it to be like a cork screw. It is about a foot wide by about 2 / 3 foot long and it drills holes for planting trees and fence post. Has anybody any ideas where we could hire or buy one of these?

Many thanks Paul n Da

[chownah]

We use a wrecker bar with claws on one end to stretch the barbed wire. I've never seen a wire stretcher here but the bar seems to work ok.

We have the augers around Chiangrai but don't know about Khon Kaen

Chownah

Edited June 2, 2007 by chownah

[Farma]

Slightly off topic. Ubon Wasuda had a sale on barbed wire the other week. 25 metre rolls for 201 Baht or 35 metre rolls for 249 Baht. I saw plenty of locals buying it.

Is this a good price?

[Gary A]

Most of the implement dealers have the augers. They are not expensive but it takes a tractor with a three point hitch and a PTO. Most of the farmers stringing barbed wire use a simple lever but there are also what we call come a longs available. They are a ratchet devise that has a cable on a ratchet spool that turns with a lever. Chain falls are also commonly available.

[chownah]

Slightly off topic. Ubon Wasuda had a sale on barbed wire the other week. 25 metre rolls for 201 Baht or 35 metre rolls for 249 Baht. I saw plenty of locals buying it.

Is this a good price?

Seems like I've been paying about 5 1/2 baht per metre for 65 metre rolls...I think they are 10 kilograms actually if I remember correctly....but they come out to about 65 metres and I have been paying about 350 baht per roll....but really I think its not very good quality and the galvanized coating is very thin.

One thing I've learned is don't leave a piece of barbed wire lying in a wet rice paddy for any length of time as the soil makes the water acid enough to strip off the zinc and corrode the wire really quickly...a couple of months in the water will produce several years of corrosion under normal conditions....at least that's the way it seems.

[Farma]

Thanks Chownah, Those rolls were selling like hotcakes. The in-laws followed the crowd and snapped up 20 rolls of the 35 metre wire to share amongst themselves. It will only be used as temporary fencing around some small trees to keep the cattle out anyway.

[whitevan73]

Thanks for that

We have not bought our wire yet so the wire info is usefull too. I have noticed that all the wire fences nr to our land are all just fastened on with the loose bits of wire, sticking out of the concrete post, the wire is not pulled tight. We have 6 rye to fence off 160m / 60m. What kind of spacing inbitween the concreate post whould you recomend? Taking into account that the wire will be pulled tight. The local biulding yard has offered to make 200 concrete post with 5 holes in each, so that we can feed the wire through instead of twisting on to the hook wire from the concrete post. the post would be 8ft long with 5 holes in each, one foot apart. They gave a price off 200 bht per post.

Paul

[Lickey]

We Just had a new fence done, 73 posts,5 wire, 6ft , 1 ft buried, 2 mtr spacings, 11 concrete corner support posts, 5 men 2 days {plus feeding them} 11,200 inclusive, bht.

This was towards end of dry season, and the ground {hand dug} was hard as hel_l,

On the other hand, we just planted 700+ banana plants, local tractor man with an auger as you descibe, done the holes 18in deep, 5 bht per hole, best bet, get a family member to find a tractor man with auger, prices do tend to rise if they see a falang,

Either way, i would think you are looking at 35,000bht + for the whole job, corners and gates ect slow the labour down,

[Maizefarmer]

Hi

Me and my wife are going to LOS in July and we need to put up a barbed wire fence. In this country (UK) you can buy a rachet to pull the wire tight. Can you buy these in Thailand or do i need to pack one in the suitcase? We will be in Khon Kean. We are also looking for a drilling divice that attaches to the back of a tractor. I can only explain it to be like a cork screw. It is about a foot wide by about 2 / 3 foot long and it drills holes for planting trees and fence post. Has anybody any ideas where we could hire or buy one of these?

Many thanks Paul n Da

Wire rachets are commonly availbe in most hardware type stores - cost: from Baht 500 - thru to around Baht 1200 (they're cheap things).

Tractor mounted augers - can be purchased likewise from most hardware stores. Just take in a picture of on one mounted behind a tractor and indicate the size you want. For post sinking 6" diameter will be fine (Thai words - "bra-mann hoek nill" meaning "about 6 inches "- they'll understand that) - make sure you get a Cat 1. Cat 1 is the rear 3 point hitch and spline size - which is what is found on 95% plus of all small and medium size tractors in Thailand - irrspective of whether it's a Kubota, Iseki or Yanmar tractor - it will couple to all of them.

Cost wise - expect to pay from around Baht 2400 - thru to Baht 5 000 - depending on depth and diametre of the augar. I would think 6"diameter x 4' depth willbe sufficient for your needs -then find a local small/medium tractor owner/driver to come along a sink the holes for you.

Wooden posts - well, they need no explaining: you find any thickness and any diameter - anywhere: just make sure they are dry, and then soak them in a trough or creaoste or even diesel (diesel does fine) for a few hours - or the ants and the rain will ruin them in a couple of seasons. And others have said - make sure the b/wire is galvanised else it will rust pronto pronto.

MF

[chuchok]

Hi

Me and my wife are going to LOS in July and we need to put up a barbed wire fence. In this country (UK) you can buy a rachet to pull the wire tight. Can you buy these in Thailand or do i need to pack one in the suitcase? We will be in Khon Kean. We are also looking for a drilling divice that attaches to the back of a tractor. I can only explain it to be like a cork screw. It is about a foot wide by about 2 / 3 foot long and it drills holes for planting trees and fence post. Has anybody any ideas where we could hire or buy one of these?

Many thanks Paul n Da

One of these?

[chownah]

Thanks for that

We have not bought our wire yet so the wire info is usefull too. I have noticed that all the wire fences nr to our land are all just fastened on with the loose bits of wire, sticking out of the concrete post, the wire is not pulled tight. We have 6 rye to fence off 160m / 60m. What kind of spacing inbitween the concreate post whould you recomend? Taking into account that the wire will be pulled tight. The local biulding yard has offered to make 200 concrete post with 5 holes in each, so that we can feed the wire through instead of twisting on to the hook wire from the concrete post. the post would be 8ft long with 5 holes in each, one foot apart. They gave a price off 200 bht per post.

Paul

I buy 2 metre fence posts with five holes and small grooves for 60 baht each...200 baht is way too much I think unless there is something very very special about these posts. We install the wire by inserting a small split of wood (usually bamboo) into the hole first and then drive in a nail and bend it over the wire when about 1 1/2 or 2 cm still protrudes. My uncle likes to get larger diameter nails and eliminate the wood insert but I think this might weaken the post as it puts alot of wedging force on the concrete...the wood is used to reduce the wedging force but it still seems to provide enough friction to hold the nail in.....the wood insert might not be necessary but anyway that is what I do.

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

Hi

Me and my wife are going to LOS in July and we need to put up a barbed wire fence. In this country (UK) you can buy a rachet to pull the wire tight. Can you buy these in Thailand or do i need to pack one in the suitcase? We will be in Khon Kean. We are also looking for a drilling divice that attaches to the back of a tractor. I can only explain it to be like a cork screw. It is about a foot wide by about 2 / 3 foot long and it drills holes for planting trees and fence post. Has anybody any ideas where we could hire or buy one of these?

Many thanks Paul n Da

One of these?

Yes - you can get the one above -from Borneo Technical Company Thailand Ltd -they have a big showroom/office down the bottom end of Sathorn Rd (going down Sathorn on the left hand side by the motorway flyover not far fromthe Holiday Inn)- but they ain't cheap - around Baht 4000 -5000!! (they're imported from Australia).

Below is a much cheaper option, and in many ways better in my opinion because they have a rachet mechanism - and cost around Baht 1200- and are much more commonly avalible. Again - print out the picture and take it into any decent hardware store - much easier than trying to explain it in Thai - and you'll find a load of uses for it as the cable is around 12m long (good for around 3 - 4tons of pull - more than you'll ever need)!

Wooden posts 6" x 9' - cost: Baht 110 (untreated - you'll have to treat yourself)

Concreate posts 4" square x 8' - cost around Baht 180 -Baht 220 (with holes in them for binding wire).

Concreate has advantages - last forever and so long as no short cuts have been taken i.e. correct mix, allowed to cure and have decent thickness of rebar (check the base to see how many re-bars are in and how thick they are (4 x 3/16"or similar should be fine), they'lllast for life and not likely to snap.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[stoneman]

Hi

Me and my wife are going to LOS in July and we need to put up a barbed wire fence. In this country (UK) you can buy a rachet to pull the wire tight. Can you buy these in Thailand or do i need to pack one in the suitcase? We will be in Khon Kean. We are also looking for a drilling divice that attaches to the back of a tractor. I can only explain it to be like a cork screw. It is about a foot wide by about 2 / 3 foot long and it drills holes for planting trees and fence post. Has anybody any ideas where we could hire or buy one of these?

Many thanks Paul n Da

One of these?

Yes - you can get the one above -from Borneo Technical Company Thailand Ltd -they have a big showroom/office down the bottom end of Sathorn Rd (going down Sathorn on the left hand side by the motorway flyover not far fromthe Holiday Inn)- but they ain't cheap - around Baht 4000 -5000!! (they're imported from Australia).

Below is a much cheaper option, and in many ways better in my opinion because they have a rachet mechanism - and cost around Baht 1200- and are much more commonly avalible. Again - print out the picture and take it into any decent hardware store - much easier than trying to explain it in Thai - and you'll find a load of uses for it as the cable is around 12m long (good for around 3 - 4tons of pull - more than you'll ever need)!

Wooden posts 6" x 9' - cost: Baht 110 (untreated - you'll have to treat yourself)

Concreate posts 4" square x 8' - cost around Baht 180 -Baht 220 (with holes in them for binding wire).

Concreate has advantages - last forever and so long as no short cuts have been taken i.e. correct mix, allowed to cure and have decent thickness of rebar (check the base to see how many re-bars are in and how thick they are (4 x 3/16"or similar should be fine), they'lllast for life and not likely to snap.

Maizefarmer..Great Information, as always.. Need some info about corner post set-ups...Can you buy the larger corner posts and the brace posts?

Stoneman

[Cuban]

...the post would be 8ft long with 5 holes in each, one foot apart. They gave a price off 200 bht per post.

I friend had a small production run custom made to a high standard, about 8-10 feet long, at 80 Baht each delivered to site. 200 Baht way too expensive.

[whitevan73]

Great info.

We are planting 2400 Krisana trees, this is the main reason for the auger. The trees will be about 180 cm high. The first pic i posted is from the krisana site which they use to plant upto 140 cm. I think that one is 50 cm wide. I suppose if the augers cost about 5000 baht each, the wifes family could rent them out.

If we sunk the concrete post 2 foot into the ground, would that be sufficent to hold them steady without concrete bedding in around the base? We will ask Da`s parents to shop around for a reasonable price for the post. Its a good job we dont need the post in the UK, they are about £15 each

[whitevan73]

Any ideas on spacing of the post? how far apart should they be. We will be using conrete, not wood.

Paul

[Maizefarmer]

Post spacing -I space 4 meters (12 foot) for my cattle fencing - as long as the post is well sunk and tight, a 1:2 ratio (below ground versus above ground i.e 3 foot in the ground, 6 foot above) - any then along those lines, give or take around 10% - 15% variation each way will be fine. The key here is to get as tight as an initial fit as is possible i.e use as small a hole as you can - then just throw in a slushy/wet cement mix (no stones needed in the mix) - start with a tight fitting hole, and you'll find all you need is a large shovel full per hole: as you push the pole in the hole, the mix will rise up the sides and full any gaps -and that really is all you need to do. Allow it to dry for 24hrs and it will fine.

While no need to concreate in all posts, concreating corner posts is a must - along with the 45degree corner supports - you'll understand why as soon as you hookup the cable puller!! No 45degree supports or no concreate and as soon as you tension the cable puller (which should be done from the corners - not along some point on the lengths), you'll quickly see why the corner verticals and 45 degree side support need to be c/created in!!

...and if for some reason you can't get a cable puller - use the tractor: drill a hole through the end post, thread the wire through, tie it to the 3 point hitch, put tractor in low range first gear and let clutch out slowlyyyyy ..... any mid size 25hp- 35hp will be able to provide sufficient drag to snap 3 to 4 core barbed wire - so go slow. Get it as tight as you wish, then hammer a bolt or piece of wooden dowling of a slightly larger diameter as the hole in the end post through which the wire was threaded - either will provide ample friction to retain the tension in the wire. Just remember for every 10 meters in length you are going to get around 1m - 1.5meters of initial stretch with cable or tractor strength pulling compared to what will be achieved with a couple labourers pulling for it to be real tight - so ensure the all post holes are sufficiently large enough for the barbs to pass through, if you are passing the wire through all the posts (which is what I would do). Thats the only hassle with concreate poles - they seldom make the holes larger enough to allow the barbs to pass through, where as with wooden posts, you can drillthem out towhatever size you want.

MF

Posta to support tres plants - well, its pretty much a vertical support: I wouldn't bother with anything more expensive than a wooden pole and a sand filled hole - thats my take on it, after all they aren't going tobe in place for ever. But if there a reason for it to be more supportive, then do whatever is required.

MF

[chownah]

I put mine at 4 metres apart and use three wires but the only thing I'm keeping out are a few slow roving cows which are easily deterred. Seems like the Thais often put the posts every 2 1/2 metres. My philosophy is that I can always add more posts later in places where there's alot of pressure on the fence. I have already put a fourth wire on the fence that is by the road just as an extra deterent.

Also, I put my posts 55 cm in the ground (2 metre posts) except for areas with exceptionally soft soils (mostly from being wet alot) where I put them in 60 or 65 cm. I'm in the north and have sandy clay soils ranging from heavy (low sand content) to moderately light (moderately high sand content).

Chownah

Edited June 3, 2007 by chownah

[Lickey]

So there you have it Whitevan, spacings from 2 to 4 mtrs, wood or concrete, 3 or 5 wire, tension from corner to corner, BW straight through posts, concrete posts from 90 to 220 bht, wood posts however treated will eventually fail, also, you being from the UK will know what i mean when i say that if i could buy concrete posts with a 45 degree, 1 ft on top of post for 2 extra wires i would, but i havent seen those here. As you know, its easy to climb over a straight BW fence, but these angle posts make it a one way thing.

Also be carefull of corner to corner tension, a careless tractor man who might hit your wire would possibbly pull over 1/2 corner posts, our fence is wire fixed at each post, so these wires would snap before any serious damage to the corner posts.

Another point is if your farming neighbours have cattle/buffalo/livestock, and they tore there hides on your BW fence, they might be after your hide, This happened to us last week, we had to put up another plain wire/concrete post fence of 25mtrs to stop cattle injuring themselves.

[chownah]

cows around here know what barbed wire is and don't go tearing their hide on the fence....its a none issue in my experience.....wonder what's up with Lickey's neighbors?.....people with cows don't like fences as it limits their free pasture so maybe its just a way to harass the fence builder and to try to get some money out of him....don't know.

[Lickey]

Chownah, you may remember from some of my earlier posts on this forum about a man called Mr Poo, yes that really is his nickname and he supplies all the cowshit for our farm, his grazing field adjoins our farm, the original BW fence with wooden posts had rotted away, and his cattle had made a path over it for fresh pastures, they really wernt hurting anything, but since we have raised salad beds, about 2 rai of sweetcorn, .5 rai of water melon, winged beans and various other stuff sprouting, you know, nice tender young shoots, cattle love this stuff and a hoof on a salad bed causes quite a mess!! So we put in the new BW fence, and Mr Poo is welcome to take any fodder he wants anytime, Anyway, getting to the point, Poo has a 3 month old calf, its a very good looking beast, fawn colour, stands nice, good rigid ears, walks like it has a pedigree, and wants 3k for it, and has never encountered BW, so to protect this lovely calf, i bought the materials and Poo suplied the labour free.

Must add that Poos farm is surrounded by very thick hedges, no BW,

Cheers, Lickey.

[ewelve]

Slightly off topic. Ubon Wasuda had a sale on barbed wire the other week. 25 metre rolls for 201 Baht or 35 metre rolls for 249 Baht. I saw plenty of locals buying it.

Is this a good price?

There is a good chance there will be some extra cheap barbed wire for sale around Kanchanaburi as the little bastards stole over a kilometer of mine last night, i do hope they come back for the rest as myself and my neighbour have arranged a bonus for them after all the poor chaps were working nights, bastards.

Ewelve

[brahmburgers]

I try to avoid fences and walls wherever possible. Remember that Hank Williams old country song "Don't Fence Me In" ? That's my mantra. Unless you have to use barbed wire (for protecting something?) try using thick galvanized wire without the barbs.

If you were a Thai, there would be zero consideration for any wire fence other than barbed, but you're not a Thai, are you? In the bigger picture of things, a Thai considers it absolutely essential to have barbed wires and/or cement walls surrounding every piece of land or house he owns - with no consideration for the concept of having an unfenced or unwalled property. Even though we may reside in Thailand, we don't have to adapt to every one of their cultural mandates.

[chownah]

My three wire barbed wire fence will stop a casually grazing cow.....the same three wire configuration without the barbs would not stop them at all.....they would lean on the wires while they stick their necks through to get that tasty clump of green on the other side of the fence and when that clump was consumed they would see another one a bit further in so they would push a bit harder until they could reach that clump and they would continue to push harder until either they climbed through the fence or toppled the fence. You can build a barbless fence to stop cattle but it takes much heftier posts planted much deeper and more strands of wire. The invention of barbed wire just made it cost effective to control cattle movements.

Chownah

[brahmburgers]

My three wire barbed wire fence will stop a casually grazing cow.....the same three wire configuration without the barbs would not stop them at all.....they would lean on the wires while they stick their necks through to get that tasty clump of green on the other side of the fence and when that clump was consumed they would see another one a bit further in so they would push a bit harder until they could reach that clump and they would continue to push harder until either they climbed through the fence or toppled the fence. You can build a barbless fence to stop cattle but it takes much heftier posts planted much deeper and more strands of wire. The invention of barbed wire just made it cost effective to control cattle movements.

Chownah

I agree that penning cattle in (or out) requires barbed wire rather than non-barbed wire. My earlier comment mentioned you may need barbed wire is you're "protecting something" - which could be a field of grass or whatever. Not everyone has cattle (on their land or next door) so not everyone needs barbed wire. The gist of my comments is: barbed wire is much too often used in Thailand, when a non-barbed fence or no fence at all would suffice. It's a matter of changing perspectives. In a not too dissimilar comparison: nearly every shop owner in Thailand (I'd say over 95%) has rolling steel louvers - even though in most cases they're unnecessary. Not to mention the eyesores and gross noise pollution each morning and evening. Barbed wires and cinder block walls, and gray steel doors throughout every part of Thailand - what type of image does that project? Practicality is one thing. Blind adherence to doing what everyone else does is another.

[whitevan73]

160 m of Da`s land is running along a road which has always got cows and buffalo passing by. Barbed wire is essentail.

[Maizefarmer]

Brahmburger - agreed - you have a point here - barbed wire is used far more liberally than neccessary.

With sheep and goats (does anything keep goats in!!) barbed wire on all strands - but for cows, no - the top strand normally is sufficient. Damage to the hides? - only if you have to many cows in too small a space - in which case barbed wire or not, you're going to be spending a lot of time putting your fence back up as theye just push it down. But with sufficient space, they seldom challenge it.

Best - a single strand of any plain wire with a pulse running through it will keep cows confined - and barbed wire should never be pulsed!

. The hassle with all fences is at the headland when ploughing - always gets in the way. Can't remember the amount of times I've dropped the Simba at night only to find half way down the filed I'm dragging 500yards of fencing with!

Farmers use it more so as land demarkation, than to keep animals in or out.

MF

[Lickey]

A little more reasoning for using BW, as i stated in a previous post, I would like to have the concrete posts with a 45degree angle at the top with 2 strands of BW running through this, same as any military base has. with these, facing outwards {away from land} it would be near impossible for passing robbers to get in, I know as well as all you do that they will get in if they want.

As it was before the new fence, we rekoned that 2 pick-ups and 4/5 blokes could get away with 2 tonnes of Papaya fruit, various electrical items like sub pump, booster pump, other things of value from the sawmill and store house.

Allthough putting a new BW fence up was not only to keep mr poos cattle in check but as a deterrant [albeit small] to potential robbers.

Besides Poos 3 mth old calf, he has 6 full grown cattle as well, who happily feed on his 3 rai, and as previously stated, none of the 3 rai has BW, just thick bush/tree borders, the secondary fence is plain wire and is placed 18 inches from the BW fence, we done this on an amicable agreement, I really dont want to see one of his prize possessions with a gashed eyeball ect.

So hes happy, im happy, and to have a happy neighbour is better than a bitter one i think you will all agree.

[fruity]

Just bought 20-35metre/5kg rolls, heavily galvanised in my regular supplier (of everything) in Buriram for 150 baht per roll, B3,000 for 20. Agreed, way too much barbed wire everywhere, however, it is a necessary evil when wandering wua are about

[Maizefarmer]

5kg for a 25- 30m roll - that sounds quite light (weight).

How high - 48" or 52" and any idea what gauge wire the strands are?

Not a big issue Fruity, just curious because you get barbed wire and you get barbed wire - some of it is very thin gauge and to ensure it lasts (if it is thin stuff), do a loop round each post - and U-Nail the loop cross-over point to the post (so if a section does snap you don't have the whole length dropping down, but just that section).

MF