Laughter, Tears, Confusion, And Hurt Feelings.

[oceanrover]

Hey SNGLIFE,

I do not live in Thailand yet as I have more than a few years before retirement, but I can agree with your assessment 100% based on what I have experienced thus far with construction in Isaan.

I have spent some time in other regions of the world where similar “Cultural Differences” were attributed to the level of workmanship or business practices. It is all hogwash. The children of some of those with “Cultural Differences” seem to do just fine when they move to another region and have the ability to change a little. I have some pictures somewhere of a 40 meter long 3 meter high wall built by local skilled tradesman in rural Mexico and the parallel wall built by a crew I hired from Mexico City. The difference was night and day upon completion. I can only imagine the disarray of the wall now ten years later that was built by the local skilled tradesman. It is funny that I often see TIT in the forums as an explanation for the way things are done or not done. It was always TIM in Mexico.

Cheers.

Mike in Seattle

[thomo]

...of lessons learned.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=131979

[qoute]Basically I have committed the past four years treating her like a queen ..... and taken her on trips and done whatever I could to make her happy and she has now just totally stabbed me in the heart as gratitude and has taken everything I own to the point I am now at the age of 44, penniless through trying to help and loving somebody and have to start a new life with nothing.

Once again people, any advice, besides you idiot....

How can such a sweet, innocent, loving person be so cruel to another human being after all I have willingly lost for her until now I have nothing?[/qoute]

Be happy and in control of all your finances and acquisitions.

Be happy and in control of all your finances and acquisitions.

Be happy and in control of all your finances and acquisitions.

[thomo]

...of lessons learned.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=131979

[qoute]Basically I have committed the past four years treating her like a queen ..... and taken her on trips and done whatever I could to make her happy and she has now just totally stabbed me in the heart as gratitude and has taken everything I own to the point I am now at the age of 44, penniless through trying to help and loving somebody and have to start a new life with nothing.

Once again people, any advice, besides you idiot....

How can such a sweet, innocent, loving person be so cruel to another human being after all I have willingly lost for her until now I have nothing?[/qoute]

Be happy and in control of all your finances and acquisitions.

Be happy and in control of all your finances and acquisitions.

Be happy and in control of all your finances and acquisitions.

[cooL_guY_corY]

i live in Khon Kaen some of the time, got some property up there with a buddy thru some friends of ours via land purchase and renewable 30 year leases. I think you will have a great time in Thailand if you dont invest all your time and money into one thing (or especially PERSON) I live in kk sometimes, more as a vacation place, i live in an apartment in bkk right now with my girlfriend, shes 25 and works full time, shes 3 years older then me and is self supportive, so its cool everyone is busy and independent. Isaan is an amazing place, with a lot of amazing people, but if you are a sucker or just really naive you will be dismantled in no time. I love what that guy said regarding the quote from HEAT, great movie and great quote, stick by that and you wont go wrong. never put someone in a position to f u ck you over, EVER. If you do it then you deserve it. good luck

Edited August 2, 2007 by cooL_guY_corY

[Bpraim1]

Cultural Differences: Stories of laughter, tears, confusion, and hurt feelings.

As I venture into "unknown" territory i.e. hoping to buy land (in my TGF's) name and build a house, I am learning there may be more cultural differences between the LOS and the West than I was aware of. One thing I am learning is how my understanding of "help" might differ from my Thai girlfriend, her parents, and all the people in her mooban. What have you experienced? Please share you stories of laughter, tears, confusion, and hurt feelings so other farangs and maybe Thai people too can better understand our cultural differences.

Thanks, Keoki

Confusion ? Different understandings ? In Thailand ? Surely you jest, sir.

Hi all.

We were "up country" recently and I soon figured out that my TGF's parents' – not sure how else I might refer to them – motorbike was needing repair. Seemed like not a big job as the shifter was not engaging. It seemed like it was stripped or needing a bolt to clamp it onto the spleen.

- Well I first asked if my ???? in-laws had any tools – ya see I have "wrenched" my own bikes in USA. Answer: no tools.

- Then I asked if they had taken it to a shop? Ans: YES five times.

- Of course my next question was a/b the shop standing behind their work i.e. guarantee. Ans. It worked when we left the shop….. but break again soon.

Well I was starting to get the picture, and did not have the time to check it out myself. I suggested a joint venture in purchasing another bike. That way I could ride and contribute to the family having transportation. Of course I was the only person to have any "cash" but it worked out. Well the shop only had one key for the bike – still can not figure that one out; and we could not find a place to have another key made.

Well we took the bike home, parked it and – ya know- kinda checking it out from afar.

Pa pa wanted to take it for a "spin" (he didn't go to buy it). Ok cool I thought; hope he likes the new ride b/c I didn't know what the "family" would do w/out any transportation.

Well now here's the surprise: In practically no-time seems like the bike was gone (Pa pa) had his ride, but now it seemed like everyone old enough to ride it – did. The bike certainly was not available when I thought a/b getting in some riding time before returning to BKK.

Of course being brought up in "the West" I'm thinking ownership or partnership (of the bike). I was not "mentally prepared" for this to be community property. So this "saga" of course led to my TGF and myself sharing thoughts a/b cultural differences and much more – stay tuned.

We're going back up country later this week, and I'm getting another key made.

Keoki,

I'm itching for more......

Please fill the rest in

[selftaopath]

My Thai girlfriend live and work in Bangkok Thailand and we go to Isaan to visit relatives, kick back etc. And I am learning more each visit.

This recent incident reeks of cultural differences which allowed me to again feel confused, and frustrate i.e. angry. I’ll be brief as to not “bore you.” However if someone could educate me I would be extremely appreciative.

My Thai girlfriend owns land – of course you can surmise who paid for it. A neighbor, whose land is adjacent to my um my girlfriends, wanted to dig a ditch allowing excess water from rice fields to drain away from the crops. The “chief” of the mooban said the trench could not go straight into an existing pond (b/c the water from the rice field might not be clean) LOL. The pond water is yellowish brown now. The remedy was to cut a trench across the front of my land. I was assured that drainage pipes would be installed and the dirt put back. To this I had no objection. Seemed kind of simple: dirt out, pipe in, dirt back in.

WRONG.

I saw the only enough pipe was installed to allow a small drive way into my land – woops- I mean my girlfriend’s land – This left a trench – kind of like a mote – on either side of the driveway for the entire length of the front of the land. I was livid. The explanation I got was, “the chief only had money for nid noy pipe.” It is unsure if or when he will purchase more pipes. Not to mention that the equipment to dig etc are now long gone.

Now here’s the kicker. I viewed the situation and noticed my dirt was missing? I found out from my girlfriend who was also shocked, that her mother’s sister e.g. aunt told the worker (who had a dump truck) to take my dirt to her house. ?????????

Well, maybe you can image my feelings. I’m from America and the definition there for taking something that does not belong to you is STEALING.

Can someone please explain what the Thai mentality is in this situation? And I honestly believe my girlfriend was not privy to any of this beforehand.

Ps. I realize I do not and can not currently own land in Thailand.

Thanks,

Keoki

[toptuan]

I too am living in Issan and found that I must leave quickly... not sure why I feel this way but I feel like my wife and I argue about too many household things in a house that is not ours (we live with her parents and sister with a baby; none of the adults work) ...time to move and see if this ship will float on it's own. Other reasons for moving are that it's WAY too frickin' hard to find a good ol' hamburger here....the biggest f/f chain here is KFC in Tessco....followed closely by Swensons....I think that about does it for large chains here...oh yeah, must not forget 7/11.

Well, at least it seems you've got your priorities figured out....

[toptuan]

My Thai girlfriend live and work in Bangkok Thailand and we go to Isaan to visit relatives, kick back etc. And I am learning more each visit.

This recent incident reeks of cultural differences which allowed me to again feel confused, and frustrate i.e. angry. I’ll be brief as to not “bore you.” However if someone could educate me I would be extremely appreciative.

My Thai girlfriend owns land – of course you can surmise who paid for it. A neighbor, whose land is adjacent to my um my girlfriends, wanted to dig a ditch allowing excess water from rice fields to drain away from the crops. The “chief” of the mooban said the trench could not go straight into an existing pond (b/c the water from the rice field might not be clean) LOL. The pond water is yellowish brown now. The remedy was to cut a trench across the front of my land. I was assured that drainage pipes would be installed and the dirt put back. To this I had no objection. Seemed kind of simple: dirt out, pipe in, dirt back in.

WRONG.

I saw the only enough pipe was installed to allow a small drive way into my land – woops- I mean my girlfriend’s land – This left a trench – kind of like a mote – on either side of the driveway for the entire length of the front of the land. I was livid. The explanation I got was, “the chief only had money for nid noy pipe.” It is unsure if or when he will purchase more pipes. Not to mention that the equipment to dig etc are now long gone.

Now here’s the kicker. I viewed the situation and noticed my dirt was missing? I found out from my girlfriend who was also shocked, that her mother’s sister e.g. aunt told the worker (who had a dump truck) to take my dirt to her house. ?????????

Well, maybe you can image my feelings. I’m from America and the definition there for taking something that does not belong to you is STEALING.

Can someone please explain what the Thai mentality is in this situation? And I honestly believe my girlfriend was not privy to any of this beforehand.

Keoki

First the generous gift of a motorbike, used by the whole village. Now, the slow realization dawns that you are being viewed as the town's new ATM (bold red font, above, my edit).

I would suggest that the bold print above would help you to educate yourself as to what's happening. If you string the above episodes together, and don't see a pattern--then you're in for a long, bumpy ride in Isaan.

As the earlier advice said---be cautious, and don't let your guard down.

Edited December 7, 2007 by toptuan

[blizzard]

is thread a replacement for mac b closed thread. only 3 pages i guess ill find out for myself............

KEOKI, i pray u not from hawaii................lol.

man i thought hawaiians were immune to this kind of nonsense..,... wrong again blizzard.

if u gonna buy yr gf land u might as well marry her and get it over with.

whos idea was it for u to buy land for yr gf? if it was yr gf's you in trubble. if it was yours u still in trubble.

Edited December 7, 2007 by blizzard

[selftaopath]

is thread a replacement for mac b closed thread. only 3 pages i guess ill find out for myself............

KEOKI, i pray u not from hawaii................lol.

Yes and from the Big Island. Do you have a crystal ball?

Aloha,

Keoki

[blizzard]

sorry dued

but like toptuan says the pattern is disturbing.

DONT HAVE KIDS TILL 10 YEARS AFTER LAST MAJOR PURCHASE PLEAse!

[ronthompson]

My Thai girlfriend live and work in Bangkok Thailand and we go to Isaan to visit relatives, kick back etc. And I am learning more each visit.

This recent incident reeks of cultural differences which allowed me to again feel confused, and frustrate i.e. angry. I'll be brief as to not "bore you." However if someone could educate me I would be extremely appreciative.

My Thai girlfriend owns land – of course you can surmise who paid for it. A neighbor, whose land is adjacent to my um my girlfriends, wanted to dig a ditch allowing excess water from rice fields to drain away from the crops. The "chief" of the moo ban said the trench could not go straight into an existing pond (b/c the water from the rice field might not be clean) LOL. The pond water is yellowish brown now. The remedy was to cut a trench across the front of my land. I was assured that drainage pipes would be installed and the dirt put back. To this I had no objection. Seemed kind of simple: dirt out, pipe in, dirt back in.

WRONG.

I saw the only enough pipe was installed to allow a small drive way into my land – woops- I mean my girlfriend's land – This left a trench – kind of like a mote – on either side of the driveway for the entire length of the front of the land. I was livid. The explanation I got was, "the chief only had money for nid noy pipe." It is unsure if or when he will purchase more pipes. Not to mention that the equipment to dig etc are now long gone.

Now here's the kicker. I viewed the situation and noticed my dirt was missing? I found out from my girlfriend who was also shocked, that her mother's sister e.g. aunt told the worker (who had a dump truck) to take my dirt to her house. ?????????

Well, maybe you can image my feelings. I'm from America and the definition there for taking something that does not belong to you is STEALING.

Can someone please explain what the Thai mentality is in this situation? And I honestly believe my girlfriend was not privy to any of this beforehand.

Ps. I realize I do not and can not currently own land in Thailand.

Thanks,

Keoki

What is/was the end result? I would have filled in the trench.

I did not realize this thread was still running, I have just read the last two pages.

I also wonder if "SINGLIFE" still is having such a difficult time with Issan people.

Those that seemed up-set a writer used speaking American instead of speaking English: grow up u know what he was writing about.

The world is what we make it friend, as they say stop and smell the roses life will be so much better.

[AYJAYDEE]

so what does a farang do all day while living in Issan?

I am all for dropping everything and heading up there but i am dreadfully afraid of being bored out of my skull.

if you cant imagine what you can do to keep yourself from boredom, i recommend you dont come

[AYJAYDEE]

FWIW,

Dealing with Isaan Thais is like dealing with any other "lower class" group of people in any other country. The only difference is language. Unless, of course, you speak it (as I do). Any long-term farang will tell you the same.

The "cultural differences" other than the standard religion, music, language, etc. is in your head. What is often thought to be a "cultural difference" by most farang is actually a CLASS difference. Recognize this, and the paradigm shifts almost immediately.

Think about it...in your country, if you were to deal with those at the lower (or lowest) class (date one, marry one, do business with one, hang out with one), you would immediately be able to distinguish and identify problems that come about due to differences in education, life experiences, values, etc. In Isaan, the language barrier masks all that and it is easier to just blame it all on "cultural differences".

When you learn the language, you realize that "Hey, it's not a cultural difference. My future father in law doesn't drink because it's the Thai culture...he really IS a drunkard and everyone in the village knows it - and knows that when I show up, all drinks are on me because I am trying to indulge his binge!" or "It's not a cultural difference, if you were a Thai guy, there is no way in hel_l she would expect that a new mini-mansion must be built for her...he (you) would be living with her at her parents' house and the dowry would be THB 20k, not THB 200k+". I could provide a LONG list of ways farangs screw THEMSELVES over...

So, when your home is not being built the way it ought to be built, you are dealing with an idiot builder. Period. There is no "cultural difference" excuse for some of the fok ups that happen. I mean really...if you were back in your country and your new trailer-park girlfriend rounded up a group of otherwise unemployed rednecks from around the trailer park to build your house (substitute any other transaction or activity), and they screw it up or otherwise delay it, what would you attribute that to? A cultural difference??? I think not.

Shift the paradigm to what you know, and you will find that Thailand and Isaan Thais make sense <giggle> or at least as much sense as people of the exact same class and situation in your home country would.

you seem to be ignoring the fact that, in spite of their lack of money, many isaan people are blessed with high moral standards, values,as well as a sense of honesty , decency and fairness. i find your generalizations offensive.

[AYJAYDEE]

Cultural Differences: Stories of laughter, tears, confusion, and hurt feelings.

As I venture into "unknown" territory i.e. hoping to buy land (in my TGF's) name and build a house, I am learning there may be more cultural differences between the LOS and the West than I was aware of. One thing I am learning is how my understanding of "help" might differ from my Thai girlfriend, her parents, and all the people in her mooban. What have you experienced? Please share you stories of laughter, tears, confusion, and hurt feelings so other farangs and maybe Thai people too can better understand our cultural differences.

Thanks, Keoki

I could not have found a better woman or family to marry into no matter where i looked in the world. they are as honest, morally upstanding, hardworking, loving, generous and delightful a family as one could ever hope to find. im sorry to hear so many sad stories and warnings about the need to distrust on this forum but i can assure you, it is possible to find real fulfillment and happiness here. i hope you do

[blizzard]

can you guys clue me in on how you find issarn women to marry........lol.

i cant imagine you guys set yrself up in issarn then go looking for gurl.

[AYJAYDEE]

can you guys clue me in on how you find issarn women to marry........lol.

i cant imagine you guys set yrself up in issarn then go looking for gurl.

thru friends is the best wayaltho one COULD actually just move up here, rent a place a sit back. dont worry, theyll find you in a real hurry

[ronthompson]

I could not have found a better woman or family to marry into no matter where i looked in the world. they are as honest, morally upstanding, hardworking, loving, generous and delightful a family as one could ever hope to find. im sorry to hear so many sad stories and warnings about the need to distrust on this forum but i can assure you, it is possible to find real fulfillment and happiness here. i hope you do

You are so right, some of us have found a wonderful wife and great family and others, I guess are just unlucky.

I consider my self to be a very, very lucky man I have the perrfect wife.

Sad that so many forangs have fallen on such hard times with their relationships.

[ronthompson]

can you guys clue me in on how you find issarn women to marry........lol.

i cant imagine you guys set yrself up in issarn then go looking for gurl.

Like most forangs I found mine in Bangkok she showed me Issan and I could not be happier

[Iambabababor]

WRONG.

I saw the only enough pipe was installed to allow a small drive way into my land – woops- I mean my girlfriend's land – This left a trench – kind of like a mote – on either side of the driveway for the entire length of the front of the land. I was livid. The explanation I got was, "the chief only had money for nid noy pipe." It is unsure if or when he will purchase more pipes. Not to mention that the equipment to dig etc are now long gone.

Don't let them piss all over you. It's your home, your money so be the boss! I would dam the trench until such time as the pipes are properly installed.If they need to drain the rice fields, they will do what is necessry. Let them know you mean business - they will eventually come to respect you!

[blizzard]

how much does respect cost?..........................oh my godness!

[Iambabababor]

I give one of my sister in laws 1500 for family food.

WHY?

She no doubt managed before you came on the scene! I wonder how much of this is spent on the fortnightly lottery, cards and tamboon?

And as for your alimony of $6000 a month (thats 200,000+bt), you must have been on a very good salary to have that settlement made against you. And your reirement pension must also be very good.

Just hope your young wife never finds out that she and her family are worth such a small % of your ex's worth!

[Martin]

"Like most forangs I found mine in Bangkok she showed me Issan and I could not be happier."

Ditto, for me; except it was Singapore, not Bangkok.

But ditto, too, on "...very, very lucky man...".

I now see how I could have been 'taken to the cleaners' by an unscrupulous Isaan woman.

I wouldn't recommend any 'newbie' to trust to luck.

Best is if you have a friend who has a clued-up wife who will have a chat with your 'date' and tell her husband what she thinks. He can then explain things to you, and you can decide whether there is any point in investing more time in progressing the relationship.

If a 'newbie' doesn't already have such a friend, he would be best to come up to any city in Isaan and spend some time getting to know it and experiencing its surroundings and meeting local farangs until he does make such friends.

Steer clear of the bars. Trying enquiring at the University about getting some help in learning Thai and/or going to any International School that you can find and discussing doing a bit of voluntary 'helping out' with conversational English are the sort of ploys that may bring some result.

There is no quick shortcut. "Act in haste. Repent at leisure.", unless you are very, very lucky.

Incidentally, the posting by 'SINGLIFE' where he talks about 'class differences' rather than 'cultutal differences' could have been more tactfully phrased, but he has a valid point.

Amongst women who were the sort of girls that we grew up amongst, we will be in with a chance of being able to 'evaluate' them. But we have very little chance of making a good evaluation of someone who doesn't share our language and cultural background.