Selling Por Bor Tor 5 land

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 11/12/2021 at 5:16 PM, CharlieH said:

I would recommend a conversation with your local Land Office.

 

Get it from the "Horse's Mouth" so to speak.

Por Bor Tor is not managed by the land office. It is the amphur and Tessaban, or called Subdistrict administration office (SAO) Nothing is on computer. It is a small piece of white paper, which has the name of the person, You can spend a full day looking at books to find an owner. Maybe the improved, last time I did that was maybe 4-5 years ago.

 

Contracts are simply made by people and often signed by Poo Yan Baan ro show some authorities. Taxes are paid yearly and the tax documents is what you get from Tessaban or amphur, in huge books, to verify who is actually owner and it is a manual search for very long long. There is so misinformation about PBT5 that I will try to summarize.

 

What is Por Bor Tor 5? (ภ.บ.ท.5) (hereinafter PBT5)

 

Por Bor Tor  5 stands for "local maintenance tax" or commonly known as "grass tax". Therefore, PBT 5 is just a document certifying that the land occupant has paid the tax to the local government authority, which is the Subdistrict Administrative Organization (SAO). The SAO is responsible for collecting and recording the tax payment and issuing the PBT 5 document to the taxpayer as proof.

 

PBT 5 is not a land title document as it is not issued by the Department of Lands. The SAO also does not have the authority to verify land.  You can apply for a Sor Kor 1 that could eventually be a title deed but you never knew what it is will be granted,
 

Key things to know about land title documents to avoid being cheated before deciding to buy or sell. So you must check the owner by the poo Yai baan or the local authority (SAO)

 

PBT 5 originated several decades ago during a period when there was insufficient farmland for the population. This led people to occupy vacant land or clear forests for cultivation and to have proof referencing their land use. Paying the local maintenance tax allowed them to obtain PBT 5 document as evidence of that land occupation.

 

Therefore, the key characteristic of Sor Por Kor Thor 5 land is that it does not have any title deed from the Department of Lands certifying possession or ownership.

 

PBT 5 land can be bought and sold but it is different from normal land transactions with title deeds. The buying and selling of PBT 5 land is only a transfer of the rights to possess the land from one person to another. It does not give anyone ownership rights over that land. The ownership is to the government,

 

The transfer of possessory rights is done by changing the name of the local maintenance tax payer from the seller's name to the buyer's name. This is processed at the SAO where the SAO officer will sign as a witness. There are no fees or taxes charged for the transfer

 

What are the risks of buying BPT  5 land?

Since PBT 5 land is not under the certification of the Department of Lands, there is a risk that the land may already be possessed by someone else, may be public land, reserved forest, mangrove forest or national park, or could be located within military zones. The holder of the PBT 5 document has no rights to contest government reclamation of that land. These risks have to be accepted.

 

However, checking with the Forest Department and the military will reveal whether the land is forest or military land. Checking with the Land Department will reveal if the land belongs to someone else with ownership rights. This helps reduce the risks of land reclamation. The information needed for checking is the map coordinates and survey number specified on the PBT5 document.

 

In addition, there is a risk that the purchased PBT 5 land size may differ from what is stated in the document. PBT 5 documents state the approximate area as declared by the land occupant, not as surveyed and calculated according to the Department of Lands' technical and precise mapping principles. If surveyed in the future to issue a proper land title document, the area could be reduced from what is stated in the PBT5.

 

Can BPT 5 land apply for title deeds?

BPT 5land can apply for title deeds when the government issues a notice BPT 5  occupants to convert their documents. The BPT  5 will serve as supporting documents for issuing the title deeds, provided the land is not located within forest, military or private land owned by others.

 

The buyer can request the seller to apply for issuance of land title deeds under the Land Code Act to verify that the land can indeed be issued title deeds when the government calls for it. This can be checked at the land office where the land is located.

 

Can houses or buildings be constructed onPBT 5 land?

The occupant can construct houses or buildings on BPT 5 land by applying for construction permission from the SAO. With the SAO's construction permit, they can then apply for a house number from the village headman. With the house number, they can apply for household registration at the district office. Once registered, electricity and telephone services can be applied for.

 

How to apply for construction permit

What documents are needed to apply for construction permit?

 

Can structures on PBT 5 land be mortgaged?

Buildings and structures on Sor Por Kor Thor 5 land can be mortgaged but the mortgagor must also be the owner of those buildings/structures, according to the laws governing mortgages. The mortgagor must be the owner of the property being mortgaged, which includes any permanent improvements fixed to the land. Banks will normally refuse a mortgage to what I know and this land can not be seize and sell in auction like a Chanotte.

 

There  are Supreme Court decisions about PTB5:

 

Supreme Court Ruling 15551/2010

The disputed land bought and sold was empty land (BPT 5). The land owner only had the right to possess. According to the contract, the two defendants delivered the disputed land to the plaintiff and the plaintiff paid the price to the two defendants on the day the contract was made. Therefore, according to the Civil and Commercial Code Sections 1377, 1378, the plaintiff obtained the right to possess the said land. The sale and purchase agreement of the disputed land was therefore a complete outright sale and purchase agreement. The plaintiff and the two defendants had no further duties to perform under the contract. Therefore, the plaintiff's act of surveying the land boundary for possession and utilization was not an obligation associated with the sale and purchase agreement of the disputed land. The objection and obstruction of the two defendants refusing to allow the plaintiff to survey could not be construed as the two defendants breaching the contract causing damage to the plaintiff. Therefore, the plaintiff had no power to sue the court to order the two defendants to survey the boundary of the disputed land or to return the land purchase price.

 

Supreme Court Ruling 7740/2012

The disputed land only had the right of possession. The plaintiff seller made a contract with the two defendant buyers that the disputed land price was 1,500,000 baht and would transfer the PBT 5 document to the two defendants. The two defendants had made a deposit payment to the plaintiff in the amount of 730,000 baht according to the sale and purchase agreement or deposit agreement in printed form, with details filled in according to the form, just to serve as evidence. But in actuality, the true intentions of the plaintiff and the two defendants was to make a contract for the sale and purchase of the right to possess the disputed land, because the disputed land had no documents indicating any rights, only the right to possess by occupation. Therefore, the right to possess could be transferred to each other by delivering possession of the occupied land according to Civil and Commercial Code Section 1378. When the plaintiff delivered possession of the disputed land to the two defendants, it was deemed as complete performance under the contract. The two defendants were therefore obliged to pay the remaining price to the plaintiff. And when the two defendants failed to pay the remaining amount, instead of the plaintiff suing to enforce payment under the contract, the plaintiff filed this lawsuit to evict the two defendants. And the second defendant filed a counterclaim asking the plaintiff to return the land price received in the amount of 730,000 baht. In this case, it is deemed that both contracting parties mutually agreed to terminate the sale and purchase contract of the possessory right to the disputed land. Each party to the contract must restore the other party to the original position according to Civil and Commercial Code Section 391 paragraph one.

 

The court viewed that the buying and selling of PBT5 5 land was the trading of empty land with only possessory rights, which could be delivered without needing to register, and PBT 5 was not considered a document of title. Lawsuits for money back could be filed in case of breach of contract, but there was no authority to sue to enforce land surveys for issuance of title deeds.

 

Recommendations from Kritsada Law Firm regarding land purchases: Land with title documents should be purchased, of which there are two types:

 

Title deeds, meaning documents issued by government agencies to certify ownership rights over the land. These include chanote (Nor Sor 4), plot map (Nor Sor 3 Kor), possessory certificate (Nor Sor 2), and certificate with the text "has made benefit" (Nor Sor 1).

Possessory certificate (Nor Sor 3), meaning documents issued by government agencies to certify the right to possess the land, but does not certify ownership of the land.

 

If it is necessary to buy and sell PBT 5 land, what should be done?

 

It is recommended that the buying and selling be done at the Subdistrict Administrative Organization (SAO) because there will be officials as witnesses. This differs from cases of buying and selling land with title deeds, where the law requires it to be done as a written instrument and registered before the competent official.

 

If you will buy such land, the following information should be checked:

1. Check the location coordinates and survey page number of the land stated in the local maintenance tax payment receipt. Ask the SAO officer for advice.
2. When you know the details from 1., the next important step is to take those coordinates or survey page number and check with the Forestry Department or the military in that area, in order to find out whether the PBT 5 land overlaps with forest land or military land.

How to apply for title deeds?

If checked and found not to overlap with forest or military land, the chance of the land being reclaimed by the state is low, and title deeds may be applied for, but it must be in residential areas of medium to large communities. For rural farmlands that have evidence of long-term agricultural use (simply put, in community zones), when the government issues a notice for people to apply for deeds, application can be made. Individual applications cannot be made except when the government has already announced it but someone didn't have money to pay fees, forgot, or was busy, then application can be done afterwards. But it cannot be applied for before the government's announcement.

 

If the land has been surveyed with issuance of Nor Sor 3 or other documents, not as forest land, and adjacent lands have title deeds or Nor Sor 3, but PBT 5 tax payment receipt was filed, title deeds can be issued. You can check at the Land Office on survey maps for issuing deeds whether your land is in the area that can be issued deeds.

 

Please, do note that PBT5 has rare information in English so do not use what is above without my consent for another website or whatever. I tried my best to explain but it is kind of difficult and never as clear as NS3 or Chanotte. This is not even on our website yet. I just make a search to provide info for the OP.

 

i rarely deal with these. Only in rural areas, often in divorce cases. Prices are much cheaper than Chanotte but there are more risks.

 

 

 

 

[Hummin]

On 11/13/2021 at 10:37 PM, Chris.B said:

That is very expensive, I was expecting you to say something around 40,000 baht a rai.

All depending on location, and how its been used and cultivated. Fruit trees etc. 

 

Many villages is built on PBT 5 Land only. 

[Hummin]

On 11/12/2021 at 5:22 PM, Toolong said:

Hi userabcd, 

 

Thanks for the links. I actually recall reading them all before and unfortunately not finding the answer about re-selling restrictions etc. I've pretty much exhausted most of the 'findable' links & forums. 

Maybe that means no re-selling restrictions exist, who knows? ????

 

I agree with you that to know for certain, we should enquire at the land office, but I'm always amazed at how informed and knowledgeable people are on this site, so I was hoping someone might say.......'Yeah, I know all about it! Been there, done that!'

 

Thanks, ????????

Are you sure your wife have done the name change already? The Ampur doesn't do them frequently, and it can be years between every time they do for every sale been done. 

 

PBT 5 Land is just a paper, that proves the holder have the right to it. 

[sirquest007]

20 hours ago, sirquest007 said:

Yes, many horror stories of people losing many millions.

 

Divorce is always messy, no matter what country.

 

The best advice is always, never invest more then you can walk away from. 

 

A land lease of 10 years, you pay the rent upfront, or at least a large portion.

There won't be an increase in 10 years.

 

Simply put..

With DIY a reasonable house is 5-600.000 thb.

 

Our IKEA kitchen, bathtub, water filters, solar and air conditioning units already there.

 

Walls, roof, some windows, doors, plumbing and electric..

That doesn't have to cost that much.

Many materials we can reuse from our other house, without cannibalising too much ????

(Depending on how life develops, we might return to Udon)

 

If the rental costs are acceptable, in 4-5 years, the house construction is paid back, compared to renting similar space.

 

I don't mind renting, not at all.

Sadly most the houses we see are urban, not enough green and too many other roofs in sight.

 

The ones that have enough green and not too many roofs around...

 

So crappy insulated, electric consumption goes through the roof.

 

Even 10 solar panels (3500w) aren't enough to keep a 4*4 room at 27c..

(Daikin Inverter type high efficiency inverters)

 

What does one expect with 7-10cm thin walls 555..

 

Good to know it is allowed!

And yes, after the 10 years..

Might just need to pack up and start at a new location.

 

10 years...

That is a mighty long time ????

Apparently I can't edit anymore.

Our view :-)..

Way too many roofs in sight.

The average "village" or gated community, 13 in a dozen.

 

Ours is "luxurious".. there is at least some green and a small park.

 

But for someone used to be living out in the middle of nowhere... 

It's way too many people!

Way too many roofs ????