Hong Kong Maids Get 33 Cents Per Day

[chinthee]

So 20K a month +++ is not acceptable? WOW!

too easy ...................

would you do it ??

Before you decide...you do have to wash BOTH cars EVERY day. Nobody in HK would be caught dead with a dirty car, so that is mandatory duty. Still want the job?

[SiriusBlack1]

I'm on the Bendix side of this debate too.

The phrase "minimum wage" tells you something important: if it weren't for the minimum wage, these maids would be making even less! and they'd still be queuing up for the job.

The word "exploitation" applies in cases of physical duress but when people are lined up to get the job, knowing exactly what they're getting into, the term does not apply. Don't like the terms? Go someplace else. Simple.

[Heng]

We have two maids, one a Thai and one from Laos with legal papers (20,000 Baht to register this year). The Thai gets 4,500 a month and the Lao gal gets 4,000. I think it's important though not to just look at the salary component:

-It's a secure job with virtually no possibility of getting laid off.

-It's virtually an 'all you can eat' room and board situation (just about every other profession out there... at the end of the day or week, you're going to have to think about groceries and how much you are going to spend... and for those who make around 5,000-15,000 a month, I'd imagine that it's a big deal where you probably have to look at the prices of things in the supermarket before buying...).

-You live somewhere that you could never afford to live otherwise; not to mention it's completely secure safety wise.

-You don't have to take the bus to go to work everyday. You wake up, you're there!

-You often get to go places that you could never afford to otherwise (we bring at least one housekeeper along with us on every domestic and regional vacation we take).

But back to the salary component, maids have a super high savings rate. Depending on the household, and certainly true for my own household, they have absolutely ZERO living expenses. Our gals have regularly saved 30-40,000 Baht a year. Sure it doesn't sound like much... but for example our previous maid "retired" (we replaced her with a Thai gal... really rare nowadays) after working for us for a short 8 years. She had acquired enough savings to purchase 2-3 rai -AND build a new house- back in Laos and is now a land/home owner/farmer and not even 30 yet.

It's all relative.

[Mid]

It's all relative.

and the Lao girl gets less , why ???

what hrs do they work , days off ??

[Humphrey Bear]

Maids in HK, Singapore (with expat employers) are getting the cream. Mostly Filipinas.

HK and Singaporean Chinese employers are more strict - usually more evening baby-sitting and getting the kids off to school in the morning - so up to 18 hours a day (some days).

In Japan they are getting paid reasonably, but are expected to work harder.

Malaysia - well KL - most are Indonesian because of the religious and language compatibility - but it is a prestige thing to have a Filipina.

Now we get to the Middle East - mostly Indonesian, Filipina and Bangladeshi. And there is not enough money in the world to pay for the abuse they receive from their local employers. (Not all employers, but a large percentage).

I have helped literally hundreds of Filipinas to get to their Consulates when they have managed to escape their employers.

So don't talk to me about HK or Singapore (having worked in both) as being exploitative. The real slavery and abuse is outside SE Asia and should be publicised world-wide.

[madjbs]

Agreed, And another thing is unless the maid in the middle east are from a rich country which is almost certainly not the case then they receive absolutely NO justice from the middle eastern governments.

There has been cases in the U.A.E of maids being raped by the employers and then being arrested and sent to jail for being pregnant while not married (they would never do this to white people or other Muslim races). If the employer is an Emerati then 99% of the time they won’t even be investigated. There has even been one or two murders which the government justified by saying that the maids were prostitutes and shouldn’t have been there so the Emerati didn’t break any laws at all. Now that’s real exploitation.

Edited June 6, 2007 by madjbs

[blizzard]

doesnt anyone know how to correctly spell fillypinos................lol.

[cdnvic]

Without minimum wages there would be abuses in any country, that's why they have these laws. How much more should these maids make? The more expensive they get, the smaller the group of potential employers gets, and then there are correspondingly less of these women who are able to work and support entire families back home. Then you have them back in their home countries where not only do they earn less money, but the increased supply of labour as these "exploited" people are rescued from oppression overseas pushes wages and standards down at home.

Nobody here tolerates abuse of employees. Punishment for doing so should be severe, and the abusers should not be allowed to employ domestic help again in the future. However noble the gesture though, making it more expensive to employ these women will only see more of them going back to the farms, the sweatshops, and the bars because less people will be able to afford them. Then you'll really see poverty, and/or abuse.

[Heng]

It's all relative.

and the Lao girl gets less , why ???

what hrs do they work , days off ??

Because she has higher fixed costs (as mentioned) and it also happens to be the going rate. You might be aware that different groups of people get paid different rates all over the world.... it's usually equivalent to whatever they are willing to work for.

They otherwise work the same "hours," although I've never bothered to calculate how many exact hours they work. If I had to guess, I would say they only work about 4-5 hours a day. There are no set days off, but they can request days off within reason (2-3 days a month).

??? ????

[Mid]

??? ????

with the courtesy of a reply , yes .....thanxs

with the rational , no

I'm also a doubting Thomas on your quoted hrs ,

however there's nothing to be gained by pursuing this further .

[jdinasia]

??? ????

with the courtesy of a reply , yes .....thanxs

with the rational , no

I'm also a doubting Thomas on your quoted hrs ,

however there's nothing to be gained by pursuing this further .

if he paid her registration 20k .... over 40 weeks .... well ... ooops she's paid monthly ....

but again

who are you or I to question it? employment is a 2 way street ... if the $$ isn't right for the work then an employee will walk etc

[JimsKnight]

Back in the 1990s the maids working in HK got a day off EVERY week without fail.

I know this because my old boss who was based in HK for 3 years would always go to the parks on a sunday because that was 'maids day' when they all hung out there, relishing the time away from the household chores.

I don't know if thats how it is now though...

[Heng]

??? ????

with the courtesy of a reply , yes .....thanxs

with the rational , no

I'm also a doubting Thomas on your quoted hrs ,

however there's nothing to be gained by pursuing this further .

No worries, I have plenty of free time.

What's irrational about it?

As for work hours... I'm sure those who lean towards the "exploitation" school of thought would say that their working hours begin when they wake up and end when they go to sleep... or maybe even not then because they are technically "on call" 24 hours a day. Total work hours = 168 hours a week.

Myself, I tend towards the belief that time waiting for the washer to complete it's cycle, or waiting for clothes to dry aren't "work hours." The bulk of their daily work seems to be mopping/wiping down the floors and dusting, doing the bathrooms that are in use, followed by laundry, and then all the minutes that make up washing dishes. They have no responsibilities outside the confines of the house. No automobile washing, no pet responsibilities, no cooking (except for maybe light snacks... we actually prefer and like to cook for ourselves). 4-5 hours a day. Some days we have parties, so it'd be more "work," more serving, extra dishes. Some days there is nothing to do. The Lao gal has fewer options workwise (but I'd imagine it's still better than whatever limited options she has back home), but the Thai has done the factory route and knows very well that she'll save a lot more working for us. I think some folks would like to imagine otherwise... but working for "low" wages isn't always the suffering they think it is.

??? ??

Edited June 6, 2007 by Heng

[Mid]

put your mind at rest Khun Heng ,

I don't doubt your well in the minority as one of the better employers when it comes to domestic maids ,

and yes , waiting for the washer is work .......................

[Heng]

put your mind at rest Khun Heng ,

I don't doubt your well in the minority as one of the better employers when it comes to domestic maids ,

and yes , waiting for the washer is work .......................

Well, that's debatable.... as waiting for the washer might entail chatting with friends or family back in Laos (they use the 99 Baht DTAC to DTAC promotion that allows them free calls 24 hours a day... it only works right along the border, but they do it), watching soap operas, etc. That may be "work," but if it is, we can argue than none of us ever stop "working."

As for how folks employ their domestic staff... I have yet to do a survey. From what I've seen through family and friends, I've only met a handful of household staff that appear a bit overworked, but nothing like abuse.

[Mid]

That may be "work," but if it is, we can argue than none of us ever stop "working."

now ,now ...............

an employee is engaged for a period of time ,

not their fault if the employer has inefficient utilisation of that said time .

[Heng]

That may be "work," but if it is, we can argue than none of us ever stop "working."

now ,now ...............

an employee is engaged for a period of time ,

not their fault if the employer has inefficient utilisation of that said time .

now now, Mid... we're talking about the definition of "work." As mentioned, they are engaged 24 hours a day year 'round, however they are not working when they are not under orders or duty to work.

It's no different than say when we (sometimes myself, usually my employees though) make our deliveries at the airport each morning. "Work" would be the time period when the product is delivered to the airport and handed over to our freight forwarder. It would not include the time period of 5-15 hours while the product was airborne enroute to the customer. One might include a few minutes of 'billable' time when one checks the product's current status/location. The same for the maid... the wait time for the washing machine is leisure time. If we were to define that time as work... those of us who have to deal with customers/suppliers, etc. worldwide, with products and funds in motion even as we sleep would never stop working according to your definition.

??? ??

[chuchok]

That may be "work," but if it is, we can argue than none of us ever stop "working."

now ,now ...............

an employee is engaged for a period of time ,

not their fault if the employer has inefficient utilisation of that said time .

now now, Mid... we're talking about the definition of "work." As mentioned, they are engaged 24 hours a day year 'round, however they are not working when they are not under orders or duty to work.

It's no different than say when we (sometimes myself, usually my employees though) make our deliveries at the airport each morning. "Work" would be the time period when the product is delivered to the airport and handed over to our freight forwarder. It would not include the time period of 5-15 hours while the product was airborne enroute to the customer. One might include a few minutes of 'billable' time when one checks the product's current status/location. The same for the maid... the wait time for the washing machine is leisure time. If we were to define that time as work... those of us who have to deal with customers/suppliers, etc. worldwide, with products and funds in motion even as we sleep would never stop working according to your definition.

??? ??

Now that did make me giggle Heng.Wait time for the washing machine??I suppose by using the analogy that you gave,that when the maid has to for a quick toilet break(half way through mopping the floor),that this time should also be called "leisure time"

[Mid]

they are engaged 24 hours a day year 'round

and there you have it .....................................................

[Heng]

That may be "work," but if it is, we can argue than none of us ever stop "working."

now ,now ...............

an employee is engaged for a period of time ,

not their fault if the employer has inefficient utilisation of that said time .

now now, Mid... we're talking about the definition of "work." As mentioned, they are engaged 24 hours a day year 'round, however they are not working when they are not under orders or duty to work.

It's no different than say when we (sometimes myself, usually my employees though) make our deliveries at the airport each morning. "Work" would be the time period when the product is delivered to the airport and handed over to our freight forwarder. It would not include the time period of 5-15 hours while the product was airborne enroute to the customer. One might include a few minutes of 'billable' time when one checks the product's current status/location. The same for the maid... the wait time for the washing machine is leisure time. If we were to define that time as work... those of us who have to deal with customers/suppliers, etc. worldwide, with products and funds in motion even as we sleep would never stop working according to your definition.

??? ??

Now that did make me giggle Heng.Wait time for the washing machine??I suppose by using the analogy that you gave,that when the maid has to for a quick toilet break(half way through mopping the floor),that this time should also be called "leisure time"

Well... that's why it's called a "break," isn't it?

[Heng]

they are engaged 24 hours a day year 'round

and there you have it .....................................................

Actually here it is again Mid..............................................

now now, Mid... we're talking about the definition of "work." As mentioned, they are engaged 24 hours a day year 'round, however they are not working when they are not under orders or duty to work.

It's no different than say when we (sometimes myself, usually my employees though) make our deliveries at the airport each morning. "Work" would be the time period when the product is delivered to the airport and handed over to our freight forwarder. It would not include the time period of 5-15 hours while the product was airborne enroute to the customer. One might include a few minutes of 'billable' time when one checks the product's current status/location. The same for the maid... the wait time for the washing machine is leisure time. If we were to define that time as work... those of us who have to deal with customers/suppliers, etc. worldwide, with products and funds in motion even as we sleep would never stop working according to your definition.

??? ???

[Mid]

semantics ,

their time is yours , where is their free time ???

they must still be at your beck and call not goofing off at the mall or down the park ....................

quit whilst your ahead khup .

[Heng]

semantics ,

their time is yours , where is their free time ???

they must still be at your beck and call not goofing off at the mall or down the park ....................

quit whilst your ahead khup .

Their free time is whenever they are allocated free time or happen to have free time... no different from any other job with days off or paid vacations.

And yes, they are allowed mall and park time. They have plenty of free time to watch tv, talk on the phone, roll around in the grass, etc. What I'm saying is that from a certain point of view, they likely have more freedom, lighter workload, and job security than a lot of people on this board.

If I quit whilst I was ahead, I'd not be able to get out of bed each day or night.

[Mid]

crap , plain and simple

employees are either at work or not ,

yours are expected to be at your beck and call 24 / 7 and be grateful for a break during the spin cycle ,

all for 4.500 and board .................

yep , excellent career choice .

[meemiathai]

Heng, while I agree it is not hard work to be sitting waiting for things to be done, like waiting for the laundries, but you can't say that they are not at work and are actually on holiday. They are still at work. They are still on standby mode. You are still using their time. It is a very strange way of thinking from you.

I suppose if I hire you to work in an office, make you work 1 hour and give you 2 hours break, but make you work 24 hours a day, what will it be like? Is it that I can say you only work 8 hours a day?

[jdinasia]

back to the topic .....

more than a little misleading! Hong Kong Maids ONLY get a .33 raise per day would be accurate ... but this title is just hogwash

[Heng]

employees are either at work or not ,

yours are expected to be at your beck and call 24 / 7 and be grateful for a break during the spin cycle ,

all for 4.500 and board .................

yep , excellent career choice .

Living at their workplace doesn't mean they are "at work."

They are "on call" 24 / 7 but as mentioned, like doctors, they aren't in surgery 24 / 7. Perhaps only about 4-5 hours a day. Instead of golf and a Heinekin, it's TV and a can of sardines.

And yes, it is indeed their choice. There are also maid/housekeeping businesses that employ maids on a day by day basis where they pay their own way outside of the workplace and live wherever they choose... some prefer that. Some prefer to live in.

[Mid]

employees are either at work or not .

edited to change the comma to a full stop ..............................

Edited June 7, 2007 by Mid

[Heng]

Heng, while I agree it is not hard work to be sitting waiting for things to be done, like waiting for the laundries, but you can't say that they are not at work and are actually on holiday. They are still at work. They are still on standby mode. You are still using their time. It is a very strange way of thinking from you.

I suppose if I hire you to work in an office, make you work 1 hour and give you 2 hours break, but make you work 24 hours a day, what will it be like? Is it that I can say you only work 8 hours a day?

hi there MMT, my point was not whether the work was hard or not. My point was that all forms of work have a standby mode. And it's more than just the hours worked, or remuneration paid that makes a job. I'm saying housekeepers often have unrealized benefits and advantages over other occupations at the same level.

I only work a few hours a day but technically am on standby 24 hours a day. Can I say I really work 24 hours a day?

[jdinasia]

Heng, while I agree it is not hard work to be sitting waiting for things to be done, like waiting for the laundries, but you can't say that they are not at work and are actually on holiday. They are still at work. They are still on standby mode. You are still using their time. It is a very strange way of thinking from you.

I suppose if I hire you to work in an office, make you work 1 hour and give you 2 hours break, but make you work 24 hours a day, what will it be like? Is it that I can say you only work 8 hours a day?

hi there MMT, my point was not whether the work was hard or not. My point was that all forms of work have a standby mode. And it's more than just the hours worked, or remuneration paid that makes a job. I'm saying housekeepers often have unrealized benefits and advantages over other occupations at the same level.

I only work a few hours a day but technically am on standby 24 hours a day. Can I say I really work 24 hours a day?

if you have to be at your office 24/7 ... you could claim it!

but comparing domestic help to office or factory help is pretty silly