Derogatory Or Not?

[smartecosse]

It has been suggested in another thread that calling someone from Australia an Aussie is exactly the same as calling someone from Pakistan a Paki and that this is not derogatory in any manner and that the "racism" angle exists solely in my mind.

I am interested to find out what others think.........

[pitrevie]

It has been suggested in another thread that calling someone from Australia an Aussie is exactly the same as calling someone from Pakistan a Paki and that this is not derogatory in any manner and that the "racism" angle exists solely in my mind.

I am interested to find out what others think.........

Put Pat Condell into google, he does an excellent video clip on racism. The most overused and abused word in the English language.

If you accot find the link to his site let me know he does some wonderfully entertaining video clips.

Edited June 7, 2007 by pitrevie

[November Rain]

Yes, it's racist. It's not the same as calling an Australian, "aussie", because the connotation is different. The word "Aussie" is used in a friendly way. I've never heard the word "Paki" be used in a way that wasn't hostile, dismissive or downright derogatory. Therefore it is racist.

[Tywais]

From Answers.com

Pak·i (păk'ē) pronunciation

n. Chiefly British Offensive Slang., pl. Pak·is.

Used as a disparaging term for a person from Pakistan or neighboring countries or for the descendant of such a person.

[sukanyacondo]

Got to agree with Rain Ive not heard anyone call a Pakistan person "Paki" and mean it in a nice way, typical is "Bloody Paki" etc

Brits Aussies, Kiwis maybe because they shared a similar origin from the Uk (Maoris aside) sounds friendly or maybe just having a slight "dig" at them. Sometimes when meant in a better way theyll say "Asian" but really "Paki" should have no intended meaning just of Pakistan origin. There is Yank though too.

[solo siam]

The problem isn't only with how harsh the word sounds etc... but the fact that its used to describe people who are not even from Pakistan. Its a derogatory word used for anyone of Indian decent and is based on COLOUR and not REGIONALITY. That to me is racist, because they could be born in the UK or Australia and still be referred to as a Paki purely based on skin colour/look.

For example, if someone is from Australia and they are called an Ozzy, no problem, however if they look like they are from Indian descent and are called a Paki (Even though they were born and bred in Australia) then obviously thats a problem.

[lazeeboy]

The problem isn't only with how harsh the word sounds etc... but the fact that its used to describe people who are not even from Pakistan. Its a derogatory word used for anyone of Indian decent and is based on COLOUR and not REGIONALITY. That to me is racist, because they could be born in the UK or Australia and still be referred to as a Paki purely based on skin colour/look.

For example, if someone is from Australia and they are called an Ozzy, no problem, however if they look like they are from Indian descent and are called a Paki (Even though they were born and bred in Australia) then obviously thats a problem.

the paki term is used not only to define pakistani,also indians ,and in the uk thais would be put in this catorgory too ,anybody of a dark skin is called this,normally from your 40-50 year olds ,youngsters were brought up along 2nd generation pakistanis and are less inclined to say this word ,most have freinds that are english pakistani.........

[bendix]

Of course it's derogatory. It's not the importance of the word itself, it's the inference of the user. And when someone uses Paki it's usually meant offensively.

In fact, some words can be either offensive or non-offensive, depending on who uses it. I'm not sure if I'm breaking forum rules here, but historically when whites have used 'nigger' it's to be offensive. But the black population have appropriated it, almost ironically. When they use it, it's 'supportive and filial' about each other.

[sukanyacondo]

Then there is the Inida /Pakistan conflict, in my local shop (Indian owned) he once mentioned the "Bloody Pakis" to me. These were "his words" so they use it also in a derogatory fashion too.

[Sir Burr]

Paki is definitely a derogatory word and anybody caught using it is obviously a racist. Absolutely no room on this forum for people like that.

[blatanttroll]

woudl agree with a couple of the posters that maybe a lont time ago it was not but in the current language calling a person a paki is offensive

[Jimjim]

I equate it to Brits calling Americans "Yanks". It's not quite the nicest thing to say.

[Phil Conners]

What about when black people call themselves niggers as heard in countless rap songs and movies?

[Phil Conners]

I equate it to Brits calling Americans "Yanks". It's not quite the nicest thing to say.

I don't think most british speaking people put any negative feelings into the word Yanks - it's just a short and convenient way of saying "a person from USA". What else would you be called? American? USA is not the only American country you know. Now when they start calling you Septic you might want to raise an eyebrow

[Jingthing]

Yanks don't see Yank as offensive at all (well unless they are New York Mets fans). I dare say they rather like it because so many Yanks are Anglophiles. Also, we use it ourselves, Yankee Doodle Dandy. Most don't even know about the term septic but if they did, they wouldn't like it. We are also called gringos which can be mildly offensive. On the poll question, I don't see how anyone could have said it is not an offensive term. Is it so hard to say Pakistani?

Edited June 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[chinthee]

Yes, I agree Paki is derogatory. Some years ago, I bought & wore a multi-coloured silkish shirt and even in a remote Russian town, someone jokingly told me I looked "like a Paki," so this is widespread.

Regarding the "n" word and similar, there is a huge debate in America about this issue now. Several white "shock jocks" (offensive talk show DJs) have been fired and one very high profile national one was recently fired for referring to some mostly black basketball females as "nappy-headed Hos." He came under fire from the black community, and the issue was then raised "what about all the rappers?" These use the n word ho word and biatch etc., with impunity. Some blacks have stated that it is ok for blacks to use those terms because they understand the context, but not for whites. Others have called for a complete ban on those words in music.

endless issue, not just for Pakistanis.

[Jet Gorgon]

Oh, they do so, Phil. Yank is the Brits' word for "how did they beat us those a*holes and they are so uncultured and where's my tea and news of my slaveshop factory in India."

I've been called Honky (US), big nose (China), ugly foreigner (Japan), foreign devil (HK), and who knows what because I am white. Oh, well. I'm ordered to suck it up because I am white.

[Etrigan]

It is a racist term because it doesn't refer exclusively to people from Pakistan. Indians, Bangladeshis, and Sri Lankans, who have nothing at all in common with Urdu speaking Pakistan are also labelled with this term.

To equate the term with Ozzy, Geordie, or Jock is nonsense and you know it.

[Sir Burr]

Oh, they do so, Phil. Yank is the Brits' word for "how did they beat us those a*holes and they are so uncultured and where's my tea and news of my slaveshop factory in India."

I've been called Honky (US), big nose (China), ugly foreigner (Japan), foreign devil (HK), and who knows what because I am white. Oh, well. I'm ordered to suck it up because I am white.

It's a well known fact that only white people are racist.

[Dakhar]

Actually, I am from North America,USA, and I don't not like the term Yank. Funny thoug, I thought an Austrailian would like the term "Ausie." To me, the term holds character, a symbol of independence, fortitude and strenght.

For example, some folks called me a Cajun when I was growing up. Which by blood line I am, by culture I am not.... I have French in my viens, but my family was not part of the French Canadains that were tossed out of Canada. But when I was called a Cajun I took that as a compliment. Now a Coon AS* well, it did not upset me, but I felt it to be a little on edge to me. Cajuns take their culture pretty seriously, I once had a cajun girlfriend that wished I was cajun to the bone such as her. Ultimatley I was not cajun enough for her, and we parted as friends. Fun people, & great food.

Funny about the Afro Americans, yes they do call themselves the "N" word, and so did the Vietnamese where I grew up. I thought that to be really weird, an Asian, considering himself to be African? I don't get it?

[Dakhar]

Oh, they do so, Phil. Yank is the Brits' word for "how did they beat us those a*holes and they are so uncultured and where's my tea and news of my slaveshop factory in India."

I've been called Honky (US), big nose (China), ugly foreigner (Japan), foreign devil (HK), and who knows what because I am white. Oh, well. I'm ordered to suck it up because I am white.

Good stuff & I have to agree.

[highchol]

It is a racist term because it doesn't refer exclusively to people from Pakistan. Indians, Bangladeshis, and Sri Lankans, who have nothing at all in common with Urdu speaking Pakistan are also labelled with this term.

To equate the term with Ozzy, Geordie, or Jock is nonsense and you know it.

farang

[Jingthing]

Alot of Vietnamese kids grew up in African-American areas and shall we say, absorbed the culture. Lots of white kids as well. Its a bit bizarre. Rap/hip-hop is also a fashion thing. I can see how some Yanks might not like the term Yank, but it is almost never a fighting word. It is probably mostly seen as archaic anyway, harkening back to WW2. Now if you are a small guy would you really say the P word we are talking about to a big, muscled rough looking guy from Islamabad? I didn't think so.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Jingthing

[Losangels]

How about calling Japanese as Jap, that is derogatory.

However quite a few Thais call Japanese "Yun" which can be seen as derogatory.

[Dakhar]

Alot of Vietnamese kids grew up in African-American areas and shall we say, absorbed the culture. Lots of white kids as well. Its a bit bizarre. Rap/hip-hop is also a fashion thing. I can see how some Yanks might not like the term Yank, but it is almost never a fighting word. It is probably mostly seen as archaic anyway, harkening back to WW2. Now if you are a small guy would you really say the P word we are talking about to a big, muscled rough looking guy from Islamabad? I didn't think so.

Yea, Jing Jing

That pretty much sums it up.... where I grew up the Vietnamese were mostly Shrimpers, my generation not really, but their parents were. Any how, the those that called themselves the N word were very HIP HOP, basically the same here, without the moped.

I dated a few Vietnamese girls in my day, so I spent time in their neighborhoods, and even time on their shrimp boats. Great people, I still have fond memories of one of those girls.... WOW

She was actually a Cambodian Chinese, that grew up in a Vietnamese neighborhood. She spoke Vietnamese, and she really identified herself as Vietnamese. A little pocket rocket she was, complete with a South East Texan accent. Talk about irony....

[LinkPopularity]

Paki is definitely a derogatory word and anybody caught using it is obviously a racist. Absolutely no room on this forum for people like that.

so those people should be discriminated ?

and then that's ok ?

[November Rain]

Oh, they do so, Phil. Yank is the Brits' word for "how did they beat us those a*holes and they are so uncultured and where's my tea and news of my slaveshop factory in India."

What are you on about, Jet? Firstly, I agree with Phil. The term "Yank" is not usually used in a derogotary form by Brits. He's absolutely right in the fact that Brits would usually use "Septics" if they meant to be rude.

What did America beat us in? The War of Independence? I think you'll find that most Brits don't harbour any ill-feeling about that one I'd even go so far as to say many of us are very happy that we don't have responsibility for the US.

Don't know about any other Brits on the forum, but I'd swap the cup of tea for a glass of wine or a Leo anyday. And it's not slaveshop factories we have in India any more (think a lot of American companies do quite well on the sweatshop front, too!), it's call centres.

Edit - typo

Edited June 7, 2007 by November Rain

[farang prince]

I equate it to Brits calling Americans "Yanks". It's not quite the nicest thing to say.

I don't think most british speaking people put any negative feelings into the word Yanks - it's just a short and convenient way of saying "a person from USA". What else would you be called? American? USA is not the only American country you know. Now when they start calling you Septic you might want to raise an eyebrow

Does that mean I can call a Brit a "limey"?

[November Rain]

^^ Why not? Is that meant to be derogatory? I've never thought it was, particularly. Am I wrong?

[farang prince]

Actually, I am from North America,USA, and I don't not like the term Yank. Funny thoug, I thought an Austrailian would like the term "Ausie." To me, the term holds character, a symbol of independence, fortitude and strenght.

For example, some folks called me a Cajun when I was growing up. Which by blood line I am, by culture I am not.... I have French in my viens, but my family was not part of the French Canadains that were tossed out of Canada. But when I was called a Cajun I took that as a compliment. Now a Coon AS* well, it did not upset me, but I felt it to be a little on edge to me. Cajuns take their culture pretty seriously, I once had a cajun girlfriend that wished I was cajun to the bone such as her. Ultimatley I was not cajun enough for her, and we parted as friends. Fun people, & great food.

Funny about the Afro Americans, yes they do call themselves the "N" word, and so did the Vietnamese where I grew up. I thought that to be really weird, an Asian, considering himself to be African? I don't get it?

Dakhar, you have just elevated yourself on my admiration scale. I love Cajuns. "Les Bontons Roulon." You are a unique people and I love you to death. Few of these posters have any clue what we are talking about. That is the remarkable nature of the USA -- our diversity.

Edited June 7, 2007 by farang prince