Bride Price And Hiv

[dominique355]

doubt that a Thai would pay any sinsod in this situation ,

a face saving way maybe to show an amount which is to be returned immediately .

I was under the impression that normally the sinsod is returned either to the bride or even to the husband. Mine was given to my wife, she still has the gold.

Could your (future) wife do the same and use it for her health cost?

In my opinion TH 100'000 is plenty. We all are no millionaire (at least not in US $)

[lingling]

Please,do not bring any children into this world,and doom them to this suffrage.

Children's suffrage? What will they think of next? Women's suffrage? I'm strongly opposed to that.

Edited June 7, 2007 by lingling

[chinthee]

By way of reference, (and I'm sure many more TV members than me know more about this), but I know a Thai couple, both good friends, both from what you would legitmately call "Hi-So" families. He is a well know TV personality, and she comes from a quite wealthy family and her father was a high government official.

Her mother was absolutely difficult on the negotiation and they eventually settled on, I believe, around 1 million. This poor couple wanted to marry years before, but could not because he had to save like a dog for the sinsot.

It's hard to imagine the concept so ingrained in a culture, but the OP may have to do a work-around this, not simply just say no.

Of course, the arguments that he should just leave are out there, but love will probably win out. Better to be realistic and deal with the scenario as it exists.

[bkkmadness]

Damaged goods usually warrant a discount.

Soundman.

Man, that is COLD! But nonetheless, true.

It's not cold to call a girl with HIV damaged goods, it's just plain nasty.

[mellow1]

linglin, good catch.I wanted to say,that I wouldn't want to see children brought into the world only to suffer and dye of AIDs.(suffer).

[torito]

Damaged goods usually warrant a discount.

Soundman.

Man, that is COLD! But nonetheless, true.

It's not cold to call a girl with HIV damaged goods, it's just plain nasty.

Correct...and unnecessary.

[a2396]

Her parents do not know about her having HIV, only him and her 2 sisters.

Are the sisters infected? No? Hittable? If so, throw in one or both as 'warranty replacement'.

A nasty & unnecessary comment. Let's presume the guy really loves the woman and judging by his comments he does.

[soundman]

Damaged goods usually warrant a discount.

Soundman.

Man, that is COLD! But nonetheless, true.

It's not cold to call a girl with HIV damaged goods, it's just plain nasty.

Correct...and unnecessary.

Tut, tut, tut..

And if your girlfriend / wife came home HIV positive you'de all have only pleasant things to say?

Soundman.

[soundman]

Damaged goods usually warrant a discount.

Soundman.

Man, that is COLD! But nonetheless, true.

It's not cold to call a girl with HIV damaged goods, it's just plain nasty.

Correct...and unnecessary.

And just replying to the OP's question as to whether he should get a discount on his friends BP....

I think the comment should be self explanatory... It makes no referance at all to my feelings on the subject of HIV.

Or did you all forget the Op's question..

Soundman.

[November Rain]

OK I'll have a go at it.

Good of you to admit that it's not a friend but you that this topic is about.

But you have however started off on the wrong foot, and then you cannot blame us for having some negativity about this whole story.

Also seems to me that you are more worried over the dowry (or whatever) than about your physical and mental health, because believe me I have known a couple of friends with aids, it's not a walk in the park.

You must first ask yourself if you are up to being there for her for the rest of her natural life, and that you are not having misplaced compassion for her situation, because that might backfire in the most cruel way.

Anyway there's only one person that can answer your questions and that's you.

Be careful man.

my opinion for what it's worth.

good luck

Stan

The voice of reason! Thank you, onzestan.

Why is your first priority the payment or non-payment of Sin Sod, OP? Don't you think there are slightly weightier problems than that to consider? It's like all of the women in the world (and there are plenty, believe me) who focus so hard on their wedding day that they don't think of actually being married.

Your GF is HIV positive. That will be a huge, massive, gargantuan change in her life & yours. Address that first. Are you going to go to counselling together? How do you feel about the potential unlikelihood of children? How does she feel? Has she got a good medical regime planned, in conjunction with her doctors? Is she going to tell her family, at any point? There are a million things to think of & tackle. Sin sod doesn't even figure.

I wouldn't broach the subject of sin sod with your GF at this time, if I were you. She already feels very vulnerable. Everyone is giving poor Soundman a hard time about what he wrote, but he was just putting into words what you are conveying. Whether you mean it or not, you are essentially asking this forum if you should pay the same price for "damaged goods", as for what you thought to be "undamaged". Don't go there with your GF - you'll make her feel like sh!t.

Start tackling the real problem & forget about the "payment". When you both have a better handle on what this will mean to the rest of your lives, that's the time to tackle the BP question.

Good luck to both of you

[Dakhar]

Frankly, this thread/post is the most insane thread I have ever seen on TV.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Dakhar

[jdinasia]

Damaged goods usually warrant a discount.

Soundman.

Man, that is COLD! But nonetheless, true.

It's not cold to call a girl with HIV damaged goods, it's just plain nasty.

Correct...and unnecessary.

And just replying to the OP's question as to whether he should get a discount on his friends BP....

I think the comment should be self explanatory... It makes no referance at all to my feelings on the subject of HIV.

Or did you all forget the Op's question..

Soundman.

strangely <for me> I didn't think of what you said in anything but a cultural way. SinSod in a very traditional sense would treat any woman that had been married previously ... or had kids .... etc etc etc as damaged goods!

I tend to be a bit sensitive when talking about HIV/AIDS because I have an ex that died from AIDS and many many friends that did earlier in the pandemic. But I am a realist! I wouldn't run away from someone I loved that sero-converted but I would NOT choose to date someone that was HIV+ when we met. That makes a statement about me and my emotions and NOT about the other person!

[kankaroo]

My suggestion: Let them sort our their own lives.

Probably best.......

Wow, so sad, really sad.

If were I, I would move on. Maybe that makes me a wee little man.... but I would move on.

Sinsod, out of the question.

I hope you are getting yourself checked out. I am sure you know you have a long 3 month wait ahead of you. You can have a PCR test done, if you do not want to wait & if you trust the results. They are known for more false positives then they are false negatives. They run around 5K baht, that is ok though, you can just detuct that from the sinsod....

Kimosabi, I think we all have moments when we have a true test, and the choice we make at that moment will determine forever. You are at that point. Aint no way I would marry this person.... no way.

Your situation is a sobering one....

Very sobering indeed (and I've polished off a bottle of wine too). Kimosabi are you not afraid of catching it too ? How old are you if you don't mind me asking ?

In all honesty I do not know what I would do in your situation

[sibeymai]

Her parents do not know about her having HIV, only him and her 2 sisters.

Are the sisters infected? No? Hittable? If so, throw in one or both as 'warranty replacement'.

[Dakhar]

Three for the price of one type deal?

As I said before, the most insane thread thus far.

[MTW]

Maybe you could consider just not getting married, but live together and take care of your g/f, and then avoid this whole subject.

If you need to get married for a visa for one of you, for example, maybe you could get married privately, anywhere, and not have a party or some ceremony in her village, and that would also avoid the problem. Or in this case, her family can lie and say they got any amount they wanted, but there isn't any money to come up with and "show" since there is no public ceremony.

But even regardless of all of this stuff, you WILL need money to take care of this woman, or insurance that she can be a part of. Do you have the money or insurance? I haven't seen if you have said where you are planning on living.

However, in a practical sense, her family should be giving you money, not the other way around. If you weren't on the scene, who would be paying for her life and her medical care??? Them???

[peridot]

This is a big one, and you might do well to move slowly. Maybe don't rush into marriage, but see how the whole HIV thing settles with you both emotionally. You may be very different people after living with this together for a few months. Re-examine it when you both feel settled about it. Put the family stuff off for now. Let your girlfriend make up a story for her parents.

With drugs today, your girlfriend may well live as long as she would have without HIV, if she can afford them. I have heard they cost about 3,000 baht per month, but that is information from a year ago. But taking care of herself may mean that she cannot take care of her parents. Fortunately, she has sisters that can do that. The choice between self and family seems to be a big one for people living with HIV in Thailand. I have heard from Thai people that work in the HIV community in Chiang Mai that many people choose not to take drugs and die quickly so they don't bring as much shame on their family as an extended sickness would bring. But I also know from first hand experience that with drugs, exercise, good diet and good emotional support you can live a long happy life with HIV. Maybe not the same as a life without HIV, but not worse than many others with serious medical conditions. You learn to live with some limitations.

Although I would certainly hesitate to have a child who might lose it's mother early in life, it is certainly possible to have a child even if the mother is HIV positive. HIV is passed to a baby at birth or through breast milk. A C-section and bottle feeding can easily prevent HIV transmission from mother to child.

Protect yourself. HIV in the heterosexual community in Thailand (subtype-E) is more virulent than most HIV in the world.

I sincerely wish you the best with this. It will probably be an emotional roller coaster for a while, so take it easy on yourself and your girlfriend. Love is here now, marriage can wait. Let the love strengthen you both right now. Take the rest one thing at a time as it feels okay.

Edited June 7, 2007 by peridot

[qwertz]

Slightly off topic but relevant.

My late wife (not Thai) learned shortly after we married that she had kidney problems.

With good treatment, dialysis etc. she survived for 10 years but died before she was scheduled for an organ transplant.

The last 5 years were a slow road to heartbreak.

I couldn't just walk away from the problem but I would advise anybody to do just that if they're unsure whether they can handle the crushing responsibility and 24/7 care, leading to the inevitable terrible loss.

[issanpaul]

This is a big one, and you might do well to move slowly. Maybe don't rush into marriage, but see how the whole HIV thing settles with you both emotionally. You may be very different people after living with this together for a few months. Re-examine it when you both feel settled about it. Put the family stuff off for now. Let your girlfriend make up a story for her parents.

With drugs today, your girlfriend may well live as long as she would have without HIV, if she can afford them. I have heard they cost about 3,000 baht per month, but that is information from a year ago. But taking care of herself may mean that she cannot take care of her parents. Fortunately, she has sisters that can do that. The choice between self and family seems to be a big one for people living with HIV in Thailand. I have heard from Thai people that work in the HIV community in Chiang Mai that many people choose not to take drugs and die quickly so they don't bring as much shame on their family as an extended sickness would bring. But I also know from first hand experience that with drugs, exercise, good diet and good emotional support you can live a long happy life with HIV. Maybe not the same as a life without HIV, but not worse than many others with serious medical conditions. You learn to live with some limitations.

Although I would certainly hesitate to have a child who might lose it's mother early in life, it is certainly possible to have a child even if the mother is HIV positive. HIV is passed to a baby at birth or through breast milk. A C-section and bottle feeding can easily prevent HIV transmission from mother to child.

Protect yourself. HIV in the heterosexual community in Thailand (subtype-E) is more virulent than most HIV in the world.

I sincerely wish you the best with this. It will probably be an emotional roller coaster for a while, so take it easy on yourself and your girlfriend. Love is here now, marriage can wait. Let the love strengthen you both right now. Take the rest one thing at a time as it feels okay.

Perfect advice.

I do admire also the OP to hold his hands up. Good Luck.

[jdinasia]

Slightly off topic but relevant.

My late wife (not Thai) learned shortly after we married that she had kidney problems.

With good treatment, dialysis etc. she survived for 10 years but died before she was scheduled for an organ transplant.

The last 5 years were a slow road to heartbreak.

I couldn't just walk away from the problem but I would advise anybody to do just that if they're unsure whether they can handle the crushing responsibility and 24/7 care, leading to the inevitable terrible loss.

Been there and done that <on topic> and there's no way I would CHOOSE to do it again. Now if it happened <like I said above> that someone I loved seroconverted .... I wouldn't walk away .... but it would be a crusher for me emotionally! And I was not the primary caregiver or partner for my ex or any of the friends I have lost .... but still crushing even if you are only there for part of it, providing respite care!

[issanpaul]

Slightly off topic but relevant.

My late wife (not Thai) learned shortly after we married that she had kidney problems.

With good treatment, dialysis etc. she survived for 10 years but died before she was scheduled for an organ transplant.

The last 5 years were a slow road to heartbreak.

I couldn't just walk away from the problem but I would advise anybody to do just that if they're unsure whether they can handle the crushing responsibility and 24/7 care, leading to the inevitable terrible loss.

Been there and done that <on topic> and there's no way I would CHOOSE to do it again. Now if it happened <like I said above> that someone I loved seroconverted .... I wouldn't walk away .... but it would be a crusher for me emotionally! And I was not the primary caregiver or partner for my ex or any of the friends I have lost .... but still crushing even if you are only there for part of it, providing respite care!

Very Sad Thread, Also been there off Topic.Life as there say goes on,but my memory will NEVER FADE.

Good Luck to all in similar situations. ( Was my Deceased Thai Wifes Birthday today,somehow got through it today)

Never thought i could get throgh it but i did.

God Bless.

[keemao]

back to the OP's original question......................

write a cheque for 1,000,000 baht. Don't bank it or make it bounce if they do!!

normally sinsod or BP is a face issue, the parents will be looked at in high regard and you will also gain respect as the community expects a farang to be able to pay. Speak to the family about this, you will find they will agree to it.......if not, don't marry and save your dosh for the upcoming medical bills........you'll need it.

Best of luck.

[qwertz]

Apologies to the OP.

I didn't mention BP in my post because it didn't come into the question in my case.

As it shouldn't in yours.

If any BP is discussed, shouldn't it be them paying you for relieving them of a huge responsibility?

That should provide them with more than enough "face" IMO.

[britmaveric]

SinSod if done properly - should get your dosh back. THIS IS NOT A GIFT.... just for show. No matter what they tell you - THIS IS FOR SHOW!!!!! Million is way too much to boot.

As for HIV situation - with proper drugs/treatment - she can live a well/productive life.

[Jet Gorgon]

&lt;deleted&gt;? Except for Qwertz's comments, this is the worst combo of advice I have seen on the board.

First, Khemosabi, have you done a test for HIV? Please tell me you wore a condom if you had sex with the girl.

2) Do not pay a penny for BP, sir. You love the girl, fine. You will be rescuing her from a family who would otherwise throw her away for having this illness (ie, shut her in a back hut) and likely be paying for her meds for many years.

3) Are you sure you want to do this? Go away for two weeks, talk to friends and step back from the picture. PLEASE.

[Dakhar]

3) Are you sure you want to do this? Go away for two weeks, talk to friends and step back from the picture. PLEASE.

No go away forever.... it will work better for you in the long run.

If this woman really loved you, she would tell you to do the same.

[Jet Gorgon]

3) Are you sure you want to do this? Go away for two weeks, talk to friends and step back from the picture. PLEASE.

No go away forever.... it will work better for you in the long run.

If this woman really loved you, she would tell you to do the same.

Dakhar, I'm nicknaming you Echo.

[kenk3z]

You should consider that her family will first assume that it was YOU that gave her HIV. They will want to beat you or have you killed. That only costs about 5000 Baht in Thailand - life is cheap more than you might know.

Approach this situation very carefully.

kenk3z

Edited June 8, 2007 by kenk3z

[khemosabi]

First of all, thanks to all who express concern and offer advice.

I realize there is more important things to think about then the BP, but I needed to get information on the BP.

She wants (and I want her) to live with me, but her family says I must pay first and we must be married, but remember they don't know about her condition.

Now, since I know for sure she is HIV positive, I wanted to know what to say to her about the BP.

As to my age, I just turned 61 last month and my GF is 22. Yes I know big age difference, some understand but some don't.

It isn't my money she is after, because she knows I haven't got much now.

I believe I have won this young ladies heart. I can tell how she acts with me, the SMS's she sends me, the questions she ask me.

I came to Thailand to find a girl like her, minus the HIV of course. Funny thing is, all the other girls I've meet here I meet on the Internet before I left the USA. I meet my GF at one of the malls here in BKK. She was standing outside, waiting for her sister, so I just walked up and started to talk and here I am now.

As concerning having children, I had a vasectomy years age.

At times she would say to me "Time I sick you say bye bye", because she was not sure of my love. Now she has more faith in me.

She's a real sweetheart.

I think, I'm getting some useful advice here, thank you or should I say khorp koon krap?

[gburns57au]

People can live long lives with HIV unless it develops into AIDS, But apart from the cost involved it will be phsically and mentally demanding for you to support and care for this girl.

As for the BP.....the parents need to know about the HIV or they will be asking for top dollar. Talk to the parents and tell them that under the circumstances you are prepared to look after her and cover her medical costs if they forego the BP, However you are prepared to put up money for show on the condition it is returned to you. Then and it is upto you, you may feel like giving them a token amount.

Edited June 8, 2007 by gburns57au