Ghislaine Maxwell found guilty

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Wasn't the main one 17 years old when she shagged Andrew. 

If that is a crime, then I need to be locked up as well.

Save a bunk for me.  As if have sex with 16-17 yr is a crime when 18-19-20, then I'm in deep sh!t also. 

 

And none were virgins.  When I was 18, a damn 12 yrs old wanting to have sex with me.  And no I didn't, as her father, and mine, would have damn near killed me.  Way too big an age gap.  Her much older sisters were fun to hang out with.  The whole family, all girls were a bit promiscuous.  I don't think the 12 yr old made to 14 as a virgin, and no, wasn't me.

 

Growing up in the hippie dippy era was excellent, and probably lots of things considered illegal now, well, parts of it.  Anal sex was illegal in probably half the states back then. 

 

Unmarried sex was still illegal in Virginia, USA, till 2005.  Many states didn't revise their 'same sex' laws until after 2010.

 

Still a few loopholes in the law in the USA, that could get one in trouble, if push came to shove.

 

"As of October 1, 2020, 15 states either have not yet formally repealed their laws against sexual activity among consenting adults or have not revised them to accurately reflect their true scope in the aftermath of Lawrence v. Texas. 

 

Eleven states' statutes purport to ban all forms of sodomy, some including oral intercourse, regardless of the participants' genders: Florida, Georgia, Idaho,

 

Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma and South Carolina. Three states specifically target their statutes at same-sex relations only: Kansas, Kentucky, and Texas.

 

Maryland voted to repeal its sodomy law on March 18, 2020. The bill became law in May 2020 without the signature of Governor Larry Hogan. While the original text of the bill intended to repeal both the state's sodomy law and unnatural or perverted sexual practice law, amendments from the Maryland Senate urged to solely repeal the sodomy law."

Edited January 2, 2022 by KhunLA

[BritManToo]

On 12/31/2021 at 11:39 AM, cmarshall said:

Really do try to grasp the concept of legal age to give consent.  I know it is difficult, but really the behavior of the legal minor has no bearing on the issue of consent since there is no legal consent for a minor which is established by statute not by behavior. 

Age 17 isn't a 'minor' in the UK where the alleged sex took place.

In the UK 16 year olds can get married and have children.

Way back when it supposedly happened the the age of consent was 13-15 in many EU countries.

Edited January 2, 2022 by BritManToo

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Age 17 isn't a 'minor' in the UK where the alleged sex took place.

In the UK 16 year olds can get married and have children.

Way back when it supposedly happened the the age of consent was 13-15 in many EU countries.

Prince Andrew faces allegations of 3 attacks, one of which was in the UK, the others where not.

 

The victim, a US Citizen, was trafficked for sex, the age of consent in the UK is irrelevant.

 

[cmarshall]

Since Maxwell was convicted of three counts of conspiracy and since she therefore must have conspired with other people, it would appear to be incumbent on the DoJ to indict those other conspirators who are still alive.

[GinBoy2]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:10 PM, worgeordie said:

Andrew ....next , 

regards Worgeordie

One wonders if his mysterious ailment of unable to sweat has suddenly resolved itself!

[brewsterbudgen]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Age 17 isn't a 'minor' in the UK where the alleged sex took place.

In the UK 16 year olds can get married and have children.

Way back when it supposedly happened the the age of consent was 13-15 in many EU countries.

17 is a minor in the UK if the sex is paid-for or forced, as is the allegation here. 

[brewsterbudgen]

14 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Wasn't the main one 17 years old when she shagged Andrew. 

If that is a crime, then I need to be locked up as well.

Yes you do, if, like in this case, the sex ypu had was paid-for and the victim forced or trafficked (and you still can be retrospectively if your victim wants to press charges).

[Saanim]

14 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Still a few loopholes in the law in the USA,

Not only loopholes, perhaps also changes in the law?  When it was not so serious for Jeffrey in 2008, but serious now? 

[TorquayFan]

The not very ladylike Ghislaine finds herself in the deepest mire. After a long time in apparently gruesome conditions in a US jail, Ms. Maxwell now finds herself facing a lifetime sentence, unless an appeal can be successful. The woman is obviously a spoilt rich Girl and a sleazebag and the complainants seemed genuine enough, (unlike a certain Ms. Giuffre and her money grabbing exploits against sleazebag Prince Andrew), but there seems to be something else, 'cleansing' or 'vengeful' going on here.

I cannot help but compare Ms. Maxwell's woes with the generosity shown to thousands of child abusing Roman Catholic Priests in the USA and around the World, as revealed in the 'Boston Globe' saga many years ago, (for just one example). Two wrongs don't make a right but the contrast is startling - over the decades with thousands of RC Priests abusing children, what would the number of similar offences be ? Thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands ? And the age of the victims - I suspect most of them were much younger than 14.

 

Giuffre is obviously on the make and Prince Andrew, another sleazebag, is in big trouble - this spirited righteousness is sweeping the USA. They've hammered Ms. Maxwell. Where was this spirit in 2002 ? Whilst the Epstein/Maxwell saga is a sorry story, we now have an almost hysterical witch hunt in pursuit of celebrity, despite much graver matters swept under carpets elsewhere. On a point of concern to a Brit, Prince Andrew is a dodgy character no doubt and I don't care if he is never part of the 'Royal' scene again. However, Ms. Giuffre was 17 at the time and made her choices to take the money and glamour - her actions now are money grabbing and malicious.

 

Talk of Ghislaine dying in prison is to me obscene - maybe many RC Priests might have deserved that.

 

[robblok]

27 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

17 is a minor in the UK if the sex is paid-for or forced, as is the allegation here. 

Shtt don't go into details these guys don't like that. That is exactly the problem he paid for it. In my country too if you pay for it your screwed if underage.

[DaLa]

The case against Prince Andrew is a private one , presumably because Giufre’s lifestyle has consumed her first instalment of blood money, either that or she’s still miffed she didn’t become a princess.

 

Regardless, the claim is processed in the US and if as I hope Prince Andrew refuses to settle out of court but she is awarded a financial settlement then this is how I see it being played out:

 

Prince Andrew does not hold any assets in the US, thus Bloodsuckers, Grabbers and Hush LLP on behalf of failed princess will make a claim through the UK courts via the Transatlantic Litigation process. Documents will be served with the heading:

 

           Regina v Prince Andrew Windsor

 

Now obviously the Queen never personally attends any case. She is represented of course by the CPS. Unfortunately no one at the CPS attends on her behalf and Queeni is too busy with the dogs etc. Prince Andrew Windsor turns up in court and the case is thrown out by the judge as the plaintiff didn’t present.

Bye bye Bloodsuckers enjoy your trip back to the US (cattle class I hope).

[BritManToo]

56 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

17 is a minor in the UK if the sex is paid-for or forced, as is the allegation here. 

Sorry can't get enthusiastic about a guy banging a 17 year old, no crime IMHO paid or not.

Princes, rock stars, movie stars, politicians are all doing it all the time.

Doubt any of them ever had to pay, although some 3rd party may be handing over cash.

 

As for his reputation, it's gone up in my opinion, I always thought he was gay.

[Chomper Higgot]

55 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yet to read anything remotely resembling 'forced or trafficked' ... 

... more like voluntary and consensual.  Having freedom to leave anytime they wanted, they just chose not to.

I suggest you take a read of the Maxwell case and then review the filing against Prince Andrew.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Sorry can't get enthusiastic about a guy banging a 17 year old, no crime IMHO paid or not.

Princes, rock stars, movie stars, politicians are all doing it all the time.

Doubt any of them ever had to pay, although some 3rd party may be handing over cash.

 

As for his reputation, it's gone up in my opinion, I always thought he was gay.

Maybe not a crime in your opinion, but the law disagrees.  

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Maybe not a crime in your opinion, but the law disagrees.  

American law disagrees, English law wouldn't be bothered.

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

American law disagrees, English law wouldn't be bothered.

You are wrong …. Again:

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/59A/2013-04-06#:~:text=[F159ATrafficking people for sexual exploitation&text=relevant offence%2C or-,(b)A believes that another person is likely to do,commission of a relevant offence.

[robblok]

48 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

American law disagrees, English law wouldn't be bothered.

Even Dutch law can be bothered im quite sure that they bother in the UK too. Its a crime. 

 

The problem is that with money involved people can be forced pimped out ect. We recently had a case of 16yo in the Netherlands who even faked her ID and said in court she wanted to do it for money. The guys still got convicted. 

 

Not sure how i feel about cases where they want to do it and even go as far as faking an ID. IMHO that should not be punished. But the court decided different.

[vinci]

they are using her as guinea pig, some one to put the blame on and for the distraction away from all the F boy that's including Trump and many high profile people, putting her away mission accomplish close and seal case and never to be talk again 

[roo860]

32 minutes ago, seedy said:

Agree. The treatment of the RC church is beyond obscene.

And did not Prince Charles also have many allegations of groping the staff made - but nothing ever done about that ? Maybe inherited !!!

Sorry, but I have no expectations that Andy will ever see court, ever pay a cent.

And will the taxpayers of Britain pay for his legal bills, like they pay for everything the royal family does ? Now, in 2022, that is obscene also.

"Accounts for the Sovereign Grant, which funds the Queen and her household’s official expenses, show the monarchy cost the taxpayer £67m during 2018-19 – an increase of almost £20m in the previous financial year"

https://britishheritage.com/royals/royal-family-cost-british-taxpayer

 

[roo860]

22 hours ago, TorquayFan said:

The not very ladylike Ghislaine finds herself in the deepest mire. After a long time in apparently gruesome conditions in a US jail, Ms. Maxwell now finds herself facing a lifetime sentence, unless an appeal can be successful. The woman is obviously a spoilt rich Girl and a sleazebag and the complainants seemed genuine enough, (unlike a certain Ms. Giuffre and her money grabbing exploits against sleazebag Prince Andrew), but there seems to be something else, 'cleansing' or 'vengeful' going on here.

I cannot help but compare Ms. Maxwell's woes with the generosity shown to thousands of child abusing Roman Catholic Priests in the USA and around the World, as revealed in the 'Boston Globe' saga many years ago, (for just one example). Two wrongs don't make a right but the contrast is startling - over the decades with thousands of RC Priests abusing children, what would the number of similar offences be ? Thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands ? And the age of the victims - I suspect most of them were much younger than 14.

 

Giuffre is obviously on the make and Prince Andrew, another sleazebag, is in big trouble - this spirited righteousness is sweeping the USA. They've hammered Ms. Maxwell. Where was this spirit in 2002 ? Whilst the Epstein/Maxwell saga is a sorry story, we now have an almost hysterical witch hunt in pursuit of celebrity, despite much graver matters swept under carpets elsewhere. On a point of concern to a Brit, Prince Andrew is a dodgy character no doubt and I don't care if he is never part of the 'Royal' scene again. However, Ms. Giuffre was 17 at the time and made her choices to take the money and glamour - her actions now are money grabbing and malicious.

 

Talk of Ghislaine dying in prison is to me obscene - maybe many RC Priests might have deserved that.

 

 

[GinBoy2]

I had no idea who this woman was until all of this surfaced.

 

But it's curious to me, a woman with multiple passports decided to hole up in New Hampshire.

 

It's almost incredulous that she thought money and status could protect her.

 

Epstein took the cowards way out, obviously knowing this time the game was up.

 

Maxwell on the other hand figured than money and status could get her through it, bad bet!

 

I've often despaired about the US justice system, but for once it redeemed itself, and money, status influence didn't win the day.

 

This manipulating woman, who groomed young vulnerable girls to a peodophile will never see the light of day again, and that's  a good thing

[Credo]

I see a lot of victim blaming in this thread, which is really quite sad.  Most of you might want to remember when you were 17-18 and how naive the girls who were 15-16 were?   Well, multiply that by many fold because they had rich, older people manipulating and grooming them.   

 

There have been several good documentaries on both Epstein and Maxwell.  There were also interviews with some of the parents.   In most cases, the parents were pretty much clueless and thought it was a kind, rich lady who was offering the girls various kinds of work.   They did not know, at least early on, that Epstein was in the picture.  Most appear to come from lower-income, working families.  

So, you have girls who are young enough to be easily manipulated and most were not involved in sexual activity until they had been properly groomed over time.   Maxwell was instrumental in grooming them for their eventual encounters.   Without what seemed to be a trustworthy adult woman, most of the girls would likely have had nothing to do with Epstein.  

 

 Epstein pleaded guilty and was convicted in 2008 by a Florida state court of procuring a child for prostitution and of soliciting a prostitute.  He served almost 13 months in custody, but with extensive work release, basically, he had to sleep at the jail.  It is alleged that during the days, he was engaged in sexual activity at his office, so not much of a sentence.  He also was not required to register as a sex offender. 

 

Ghislane had accusations of being a 'procurer' around that time, but did not face any legal action until 2015.   She was identified by Prince Andrew's accuser, Virginia Giuffre, who had been recruited by Maxwell when Giuffre was 15.  At the time, Giuffre was working at Mar-a-lago.  Guiffre was given specific instructions in how to perform oral sex on Epstein.   

 

There are numerous cases from underage girls against Maxwell as well as Epstein.  Some of these girls were flown to places such as his private island, New York and his ranch in New Mexico.   Guiffre, in addition to being sent to the UK for an alleged sexual encounter with Prince Andrew was also sent to Thailand to procure a 12 year old Thai girl and bring her back for Epstein.  She met her husband to be and did not procure the girl, instead opting to go to Australia, marry and have a family.

 

I fail to understand how anyone can make excuses for either Maxwell or Epstein.  They were seasoned adults who knew exactly what they were doing.  The girls were young, impressionable and groomed.   They were introduced to a cycle of victimization long before they were old enough to have any real idea of what was happening.

[seedy]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I've often despaired about the US justice system, but for once it redeemed itself, and money, status influence didn't win the day.

Don't put your despair away just yet ...

Sure she had $$$ - but the people with more made her the fall guy (girl ?)

Many big names involved - much more powerful than her.

Can you say 'Sacrificial Lamb' ?

[seedy]

39 minutes ago, Credo said:

I fail to understand how anyone can make excuses for either Maxwell or Epstein. 

Making excuses for paedos - despicable. As is blame the victim.

Maxwell lucky she did not do this in Latin countries - they know what to do.

[Chomper Higgot]

43 minutes ago, seedy said:

Making excuses for paedos - despicable. As is blame the victim.

Maxwell lucky she did not do this in Latin countries - they know what to do.

Clearly despicable and yet so many eagerly offer excuses, apportion blame or otherwise attempt to assuage the guilt of the perpetrators.

 

Why they choose do so is a question deserving an answer.

[Credo]

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Clearly despicable and yet so many eagerly offer excuses, apportion blame or otherwise attempt to assuage the guilt of the perpetrators.

 

Why they choose do so is a question deserving an answer.

The idea that Giuffre was after money, it should be noted that she never contacted the police. When she escaped Epstein's grip. While Giuffre was establishing her family in Australia, she was contacted by the Palm Beach Police who were investigating Epstein after a 14-year-old girl and her parents reported his behavior.  That was in March, 2005. 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Credo said:

The idea that Giuffre was after money, it should be noted that she never contacted the police. When she escaped Epstein's grip. While Giuffre was establishing her family in Australia, she was contacted by the Palm Beach Police who were investigating Epstein after a 14-year-old girl and her parents reported his behavior.  That was in March, 2005. 

There’s more criminality behind the leniency Epstein was given. If he properly been dealt with in 2005 non of his later crimes would have happened.

 

 

[ozimoron]

On 1/2/2022 at 11:51 PM, BritManToo said:

Age 17 isn't a 'minor' in the UK where the alleged sex took place.

In the UK 16 year olds can get married and have children.

Way back when it supposedly happened the the age of consent was 13-15 in many EU countries.

Many brothels in cities such as Manchester, London and Cardiff operate under the moniker of "massage parlours". Although the age of consent is 16 throughout the United Kingdom, it is illegal to buy sex from a person under 18 where the perpetrator does not reasonably believe they are 18 or over.

 

source: wikipedia

[SunnyinBangrak]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:27 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

I suggest you take a read of the Maxwell case and then review the filing against Prince Andrew.

 

Ms Maxwell is no doubt not a very nice person. Prince Andrew too. But what irks me, is she is the first person to have been convicted of trafficking minors when we are not told WHO she trafficked these minors too. And why are we not permitted to learn the names of the men she trafficked minors too? Could it be that they are the super rich, super connected high level politicians and media moguls that own the news outlets and control the MSM narratives? And other people above criticism such as the founder of a "fruity" sounding big tech company? Hmmmmmmmm

[audaciousnomad]

On 12/31/2021 at 3:05 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Post trial cometary by Informed commentators (ie those who have real experience of prosecuting serious crimes) suggests that the prosecution deliberately limited the prosecution case in order to make a clear and simple case before the jury.

 

Prince Andrew’s civil case brought by Virginia Giuffre is currently before the court. Immediately after the Maxwell verdict the judge in the Giuffe v Windsor case ordered that the Giuffe/Epstein settlement shall be unsealed on January 4th.

 

So now Maxwell can hear the clock ticking, she has to calculate if she wants to cut a deal and give up information in exchange for leniency against the possibility that January 4th will reveal information that undermines her own value to prosecutors.

 

There are other possibilities:

 

Prosecutors might already have all of Maxwell’s information, or prosecutors might not willing to do a deal with her.

 

The least likely scenario (imho) is prosecutors shutting down an investigation into such a high profile case with such widespread public interest.

And also...a certain mutant whose superpower is 'not sweating'...is probably sweating right now. #kryptonite ????