How Long, would it take a smart London Hackney-carriage Driver to learn All the Streets and Back-alleys of BKK, within a 15-mile radius of the Center of BKK? A month, a year, 18 months?

[GammaGlobulin]

Here is my New Year's Question, my Dear Friends, one about which I have been puzzling throughout lockdown in 2021....

 

Let us say that one, be he a "musher" or a "butter boy", finds himself or herself suddenly plopped down in BKK, then just how long would it take for an expert carriage driver, a true hack, to easily learn the lay of the land, in minute detail, and even better than most locals?

 

And further, let us stipulate, for argument's sake, that this driver had already had 25 years intensive experience on London's roads, during which time he/she had developed the part of the brain, significantly, which makes learning maps, as well as other spatial skills involving orientation, far easier.

 

Being a scientist at heart, one who loves questions involving learning, and one who misses my time at university researching mazes by running white furry things through them, I am interested in this question.

 

London hackney-carriage drivers are always polite, and always know where they are going, even if you might not.

 

Maybe this is one of the greatest things we have left, from the old world, the more gentile world, a world I miss.

 

The brain is a very plastic thing.

After 25 years driving in London, then would not BKK be a piece of cake?

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

As long as it would take them to find a GPS installer... 

[GammaGlobulin]

10 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

As long as it would take them to find a GPS installer... 

OK.

 

Let us further stipulate, for purposes of this discussion, that China had improved its anti-satellite missile capability, and had destroyed all GPS satellites in low-Earth orbit, high-Earth orbit, and everywhere.

 

Or, let us contemplate the very real possibility that increasing space junk had wiped out all satellite communications.

 

Then, in this case, under these conditions, can we please just reply to the question posed in the posting, above?

 

Happy New Year to you.

 

And, Happy New Year to everybody on TV.

 

Best

 

Glob

[robblok]

What is the point of it, the technology is available game over.

 

Not sure what you're trying to achieve. 

 

Your trying to get answer to a question that is not needed, is that not like trying to invent a square wheel while a round one is there already. 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

What is the point of it, the technology is available game over.

 

Not sure what you're trying to achieve. 

 

Your trying to get answer to a question that is not needed, is that not like trying to invent a square wheel while a round one is there already. 

 

 

Anyone visiting a new city, especially one having streets arranged in an irregular grid as complex as those found in BKK, usually finds it daunting to get their bearings.

 

Even more difficult is it to be able to drive around the city finding one's way, even after months, easily.

 

GPS is a very new technology that most people reading TV never had before the age of 50.

 

If you are implying that London taxi drivers no longer should need learn how to navigate without the use of GPS, maybe this is true.  However, this is not the question posed in this topic.

 

The question, as you can plainly see is....as stated above.

 

For one thing, I would suspect that these guys from London, after driving for 25 years without GPS, for example, must find it far easier to navigate in BKK.

 

And, might they also be better at navigation than most, even many taxi drivers here, or taxi drivers in New York City, or in Hong Kong, or, whatever the city might be?

 

 

 

 

[ColeBOzbourne]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

What is the point of it, the technology is available game over.

 

Not sure what you're trying to achieve. 

 

Your trying to get answer to a question that is not needed, is that not like trying to invent a square wheel while a round one is there already.

It's called a hypothetical question. People discuss them all the time, mainly for entertainment and just something interesting to talk about. Like, "What would you do if you won the lottery? If you could be any animal, which one would you be? If you had the powers of invisibility, what would you do?"

 

Then sometimes a grumpy party-pooper comes along and says, "None of those things will ever happen, why waste your time talking about it?"

[flexomike]

He better be fluent in Thai or it will never happen

[GammaGlobulin]

53 minutes ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

It's called a hypothetical question. People discuss them all the time, mainly for entertainment and just something interesting to talk about. Like, "What would you do if you won the lottery? If you could be any animal, which one would you be? If you had the powers of invisibility, what would you do?"

 

Then sometimes a grumpy party-pooper comes along and says, "None of those things will ever happen, why waste your time talking about it?"

Nay!

 

Are you suggesting that a thought experiment might be useful, in some cases?

 

a.  Schrödinger's cat?

b.  Or, some useless thought experiment showing that time moves differently for someone moving than for someone standing still?

 

Where would we be?

How would we even know where we are without GPS?

 

And, without the Theory of Relativity, then GPS would be impossible.

 

Sometimes, thought experiments are useful.

 

And, as stated originally, who cannot be convinced that London Cab Drivers are amazing...and also very polite...and also full of good humor?

 

There are many retired men who once navigated London, here, today, in Thailand.

 

Everybody knows this.

[Guest Isaanlife]

No New Years Parties?

[robblok]

8 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Anyone visiting a new city, especially one having streets arranged in an irregular grid as complex as those found in BKK, usually finds it daunting to get their bearings.

 

Even more difficult is it to be able to drive around the city finding one's way, even after months, easily.

 

GPS is a very new technology that most people reading TV never had before the age of 50.

 

If you are implying that London taxi drivers no longer should need learn how to navigate without the use of GPS, maybe this is true.  However, this is not the question posed in this topic.

 

The question, as you can plainly see is....as stated above.

 

For one thing, I would suspect that these guys from London, after driving for 25 years without GPS, for example, must find it far easier to navigate in BKK.

 

And, might they also be better at navigation than most, even many taxi drivers here, or taxi drivers in New York City, or in Hong Kong, or, whatever the city might be?

 

 

 

 

Ah a Brittain is better topic i get it. Thanks. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

It's called a hypothetical question. People discuss them all the time, mainly for entertainment and just something interesting to talk about. Like, "What would you do if you won the lottery? If you could be any animal, which one would you be? If you had the powers of invisibility, what would you do?"

 

Then sometimes a grumpy party-pooper comes along and says, "None of those things will ever happen, why waste your time talking about it?"

Eh there is a chance of winning the lottery, becoming an animal.. maybe if your a Buddhist.  The questions your talking about can be fun. But the taxi driver stuff, I really don't get it. Yes im a party pooper as i am a bit of a realist and use technology to make things easier. 

 

I rather find new ways to apply IT to make my life easier and think about them then going back in the past and think about how things would be done then. I think its a different mindset. But it explains why many here don't want smartphones. Im an outlier.

[robblok]

For the record, i was here when the GPS just made its entry and loved it at first it was not that useful. But still once something was saved it worked great. Now i cant live without it and it makes travel and driving a car far less stressful. 

 

Im an average driver at best and still prefer my GF to drive. But GPS makes it easier for me to drive so for me this is a strange question. Sorry if i did not reply within the questions parameters.

[GammaGlobulin]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

For the record, i was here when the GPS just made its entry and loved it at first it was not that useful. But still once something was saved it worked great. Now i cant live without it and it makes travel and driving a car far less stressful. 

 

Im an average driver at best and still prefer my GF to drive. But GPS makes it easier for me to drive so for me this is a strange question. Sorry if i did not reply within the questions parameters.

Excuse the question, but....

 

Let us say that the GPS were to suddenly fail...

 

Then, would not the average rodent be smarter than thee, in most cases?

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Excuse the question, but....

 

Let us say that the GPS were to suddenly fail...

 

Then, would not the average rodent be smarter than thee, in most cases?

If the GPS fails im big trouble, i know and accept that. That is why i check if my phone is charged and connection is working. But yea if like in your case there is hacking or a worldwide problem then sure it will be bad. But when something that big hits its smarter not to go somewhere. 

 

But yes im totally dependent on GPS, i admit it im a idiot when it comes to navigating and driving a car. GPS gives me a safe feeling makes me drive better (dont have to worry about where to go).

 

Most of you guys are probably a 10x better driver then I am I know my weaknesses and act accordingly.

[robblok]

@GammaGlobulin

 

I am more a practical guy who likes to think the other way around like how can i use apps or my computer to make my life easier make me more productive forget less and structure my life.

 

So your question of going back in time or having things fail baffled me a bit as i feel its not something i would do. I just like to improve instead of ponder over the past and what if's (unless relevant)

 

Sorry won't bother you anymore.

[simon43]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

For the record, i was here when the GPS just made its entry....

Slightly off-topic, but I used to design military GPS systems/circuits back in the 80's. I can't go into details or I would have to kill you......

[sanuk711]

I had a few friends Taxi drivers---not London, Asked them if they ever got lost,  they told that about 90% of their fairs knew the best route to where they were going anyway.

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Slightly off-topic, but I used to design military GPS systems/circuits back in the 80's. I can't go into details or I would have to kill you......

Certainly by now the knowledge you had back then is no longer that top secret so the reason to kill me would be for your own enjoyment.

[zzaa09]

How unexpected - comparing London to BKK. ????????

[StreetCowboy]

On 1/2/2022 at 8:52 AM, robblok said:

Eh there is a chance of winning the lottery, becoming an animal.. maybe if your a Buddhist.  The questions your talking about can be fun. But the taxi driver stuff, I really don't get it. Yes im a party pooper as i am a bit of a realist and use technology to make things easier. 

 

I rather find new ways to apply IT to make my life easier and think about them then going back in the past and think about how things would be done then. I think its a different mindset. But it explains why many here don't want smartphones. Im an outlier.

I think a taxi driver would fairly quickly learn which roads he could trust his GPS on, and which he could not.

 

I use Google Maps for planning my cycle routes, and I dread to imagine cars following some of the roads that Google Maps eventually picks out for me.

 

A colleague of mine learnt the hard way about the Waze Bodyshop.

As soon as the main road past our depot gets congested, there's an enterprising young man leaps on his motorbike, switches on Waze, and belts at 60 kph down the narrow lanes past his body shop in both directions.  Waze, ever-responsive and quick-reacting, diverts hundreds of motorists on this short cut, replete with scrapes and dents, right outside his forecourt.

 

People should have to demonstrate tolerant and placid driving before Waze diverts them onto back roads, but unfortunately, Waze is used preferentially by the impatient and agitated.

 

Give me a taxi driver who knows where he is going, rather than one who plays with his phone when he is driving, any day.

 

[StreetCowboy]

On 1/2/2022 at 3:28 PM, robblok said:

Certainly by now the knowledge you had back then is no longer that top secret so the reason to kill me would be for your own enjoyment.

He might just be not very good at explaining things, and eventually the tedium would get to you.
He's probably speaking from experience.

[Farmerslife]

London taxi drivers are required to know all the streets within a 6 mile radius of Charing Cross, it's called 'the Knowledge' . On average it takes about 3 to 4 years to master. 

If your London taxi driver was suddenly gifted with the ability to read and speak Thai then I would imagine it would take him a similar period to learn a 6 mile radius from say The Grand Palace or wherever you place your central point .   

[robblok]

25 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I think a taxi driver would fairly quickly learn which roads he could trust his GPS on, and which he could not.

 

I use Google Maps for planning my cycle routes, and I dread to imagine cars following some of the roads that Google Maps eventually picks out for me.

 

A colleague of mine learnt the hard way about the Waze Bodyshop.

As soon as the main road past our depot gets congested, there's an enterprising young man leaps on his motorbike, switches on Waze, and belts at 60 kph down the narrow lanes past his body shop in both directions.  Waze, ever-responsive and quick-reacting, diverts hundreds of motorists on this short cut, replete with scrapes and dents, right outside his forecourt.

 

People should have to demonstrate tolerant and placid driving before Waze diverts them onto back roads, but unfortunately, Waze is used preferentially by the impatient and agitated.

 

Give me a taxi driver who knows where he is going, rather than one who plays with his phone when he is driving, any day.

 

GPS is not a total replacement of paying attention, but it helps a lot. Yes for a bike it won't always work, the same goes when I am on my motorbike, even with the correct settings it can go wrong. But it still helps a lot for a total idiot like me.

 

I just don't really remember roads well, never have never will. Its all about knowing one's weaknesses and then finding a way to get past them. In my case GPS.  But in BKK there are some roads that change from one way to dual way depending on time. So it pays to keep your attention on the road and not blindly following GPS. But indeed, there are enough people who just follow it blindly.