"lazy" Thais...

[Maigo6]

I would like to give 'Freaky The Bore' a few days work in Isaan, see how well he copes!

[torito]

its obviously ridiculous to suggest ALL thais are lazy as it is to say farang dont know the meaning of hard work,but does long hours=hard graft?

Agree with you 'uptou', but the huge difference for farangs is that if they work hard, they do it becuase the benefits are granted....

[Maigo6]

Agree with you 'uptou', but the huge difference for farangs is that if they work hard, they do it becuase the benefits are granted....

Agreed..........

I, like many other guys I know working in my field offshore work our <deleted> off, but the only reason we do it is for the very substantial rewards.

An Issan Farner will work physically much harder than I do, and will have no money to show for it at the and of the month, only he will not be hungry as will his family.

I'll be able to build a new house all paid for with 2 months wages, that's the difference.

So guys, don't judge people so easily, and think yourself lucky you were born with a western education and the opportunities that it brings.

Edited June 9, 2007 by Maigo6

[soundman]

Next problem are the enormously complex tax issues, carrying a huge overload of parasitic civil servants making employment more and more expensive to the disadvantage of both workers and employers.

Anyhow, here the situation is comparable to Europe under the industrialization - a bare minimum of laws that are hardly enforced, union leaders operating under threat against their lives, and benefits depending more on how individual employers deal with the issue. Some better, most unfortunately are still caught up in semi feudal ways.

Agreed that the leadership of some unions can make capitalists look left of centre whilst at the same time be spinning out the virtues of a workers state.

From my observations the civil servants of Thailand definately don't help chalk up the 48 - 59 hour weeks.

It appears they work five days per week from 8.30am to 4.30pm with a one hour lunch break.

In fact the bureaucracy in Thailand appears to be huge. I actually have two full time office staff just to keep up with the official red-tape here whereas in Australia it would have been one staff member who doubles as a receptionist, coffee maker & office cleaner.

Talk about un-productive.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Mid]

In fact the bureaucracy in Thailand appears to be huge. I actually have two full time office staff just to keep up with the official red-tape here whereas in Australia it would have been one staff member who doubles as a receptionist, coffee maker & office cleaner.

long time till a truer word will come along .

[canuckamuck]

You spoilt westerners don't know nothing at all.......................

Generalizations always end up laughable, or is that a generalization?

As a spoilt westerner, I have spent some time working jobs so exhausting I was sure my body would simply cease to function. And after 4 hours of sleep, get back up and go at it again. I’ve worked in meat lockers, oil rigs, and the family farm to name a few, and I will stack up what a healthy western lad can produce against any other. I am sure we would come out just fine.

That being said, I will say in Thailand I have seen both sides of the coin. I believe it depends on who’s butt is on the line when it comes to effort at work. I’ve seen more than my share of workers picking beard hairs in mirror or snoozing off the afternoon. But there are also those who either desperately need the job or are working for themselves. Those are the guys that put out. Lazy just doesn’t happen when you got your own farm, and farmers the world over are outworking just about anyone, and getting paid nothing for it. But hey they got to eat.

The answer here is to develop some long term vision. Start rewarding workers for integrity and commitment, and you will see the future get brighter for Thailand’s work force.

[Maigo6]

The answer here is to develop some long term vision. Start rewarding workers for integrity and commitment, and you will see the future get brighter for Thailand’s work force.

Nice one.

[wolfmanjack]

You spoilt westerners don't know nothing at all.......................

Generalizations always end up laughable, or is that a generalization?

As a spoilt westerner, I have spent some time working jobs so exhausting I was sure my body would simply cease to function. And after 4 hours of sleep, get back up and go at it again. I’ve worked in meat lockers, oil rigs, and the family farm to name a few, and I will stack up what a healthy western lad can produce against any other. I am sure we would come out just fine.

That being said, I will say in Thailand I have seen both sides of the coin. I believe it depends on who’s butt is on the line when it comes to effort at work. I’ve seen more than my share of workers picking beard hairs in mirror or snoozing off the afternoon. But there are also those who either desperately need the job or are working for themselves. Those are the guys that put out. Lazy just doesn’t happen when you got your own farm, and farmers the world over are outworking just about anyone, and getting paid nothing for it. But hey they got to eat.

The answer here is to develop some long term vision. Start rewarding workers for integrity and commitment, and you will see the future get brighter for Thailand’s work force.

As you said farmers the world over work hard to feed their families. I used to buck hay from sunup to sundown until i was old enough to work in the metal construction field. Pretty hard work there too. I used to be a worker so when i opened my own factory i tried to treat my workers as i wanted to be treated. they though it was great but bunkhun is not given to falangs. I tried many different approaches to try to increase productivity. None worked. All the while having meetings with the workers to try to find out what would work. Finally they told me that no matter what I did they were not going to work harder. I ended up just hiring more people. I am in Chiang Mai and not bangkok. I think that does make a difference.

As far as Unions are concerned, I belonged to one in the USA. My grandfather was an organizer back in the Carnegie steel mill days. I would love it if there was a union for my workers the same as what i belonged to. I could call the union and have them send trained workers for whatever I needed done. When that part of the job was over i could send them home. If they sent me a lazy worker i could call them up and they would talk to the worker. If he continued to be lazy the union would replace him with another worker. If i had this option I would be willing to pay triple what I am now because I know they would actually work the whole 8 hours they are here without me babysitting them. Now other unions are not operated in the same way. Some of the other unions insist that you keep lazy workers and hire 3 to do the same job as 1 should be able to do.I don't agree with this.

The laws are already in place. The labor laws here provide for better conditions than what i got by being in a union back home. They just aren't being enforced in the thai factories and other work places. I did not get sick pay and if i missed too many days of work i was replaced. Any way no one wants to hear me complain about how lazy my workers are and how the labor laws make the problem worse. i wish the gov would enforce the labor laws for ALL companies so the thai companies I compete with would go out of business.

[pampal]

I have had good and bad experiences with Thai workers.

some have been great working selflessly with high productivity and others have driven me crazy.

[soundman]

As you said farmers the world over work hard to feed their families. I used to buck hay from sunup to sundown until i was old enough to work in the metal construction field. Pretty hard work there too. I used to be a worker so when i opened my own factory i tried to treat my workers as i wanted to be treated. they though it was great but bunkhun is not given to falangs. I tried many different approaches to try to increase productivity. None worked. All the while having meetings with the workers to try to find out what would work. Finally they told me that no matter what I did they were not going to work harder. I ended up just hiring more people. I am in Chiang Mai and not bangkok. I think that does make a difference.

The laws are already in place. The labor laws here provide for better conditions than what i got by being in a union back home. They just aren't being enforced in the thai factories and other work places. I did not get sick pay and if i missed too many days of work i was replaced. Any way no one wants to hear me complain about how lazy my workers are and how the labor laws make the problem worse. i wish the gov would enforce the labor laws for ALL companies so the thai companies I compete with would go out of business.

I am hearing echo's of all the roads we have been down in the last five years of doing business in Thailand.

Catch up for a cold one whenever you're in town...

Cheers,

Soundman.

[frikkiedeboer]

I would like to give 'Freaky The Bore' a few days work in Isaan, see how well he copes!

actually, over three years hard work in isaan, including working in the cassava fields, to feed myself and my two small children after their mother and her family had cleaned out my bank accounts and thrown me out into the street, broke (with help from the local police)

even in the cassava fields, i never met a thai (male) who gave full input. the difference was, after i went home with my 120thb for the day's work, i used the money to feed my kids. the thai males blew it all on alcohol. every one of them, without exception. in isaan,the men only work when they need money for booze. it is left to the women to feed the families, and they serve and slave to keep these lazy,drunken pigs happy.

the thai males i came across only worked when they absolutely had to. exceptions to the "lazy" thai generalisation, were the women and some of the older men, who had spent their lives slaving to make a life for their families, only to spawn and end up supporting the generation of lazy,parasitic drunken no-gooders that exists in isaan today.

as far as (most) rural thai males goes, there is a total absense of anything approaching what could be called a "work ethic", life is too easy in isaan. in our countries, if we dont work, we starve. in thailand if you are too lazy to work,you can live indefinitely off the generosity of others, and never be judged for it. show me a hardworking male in a thai sweatshop, and i will show you an illegal immigrant!

i apologise to the thai males who do not fall into this category, but if you look around you, you will see why it is all too easy to make this generalisation.

freaky the bore

[JimsKnight]

The Asian typically work longer hours, they are more productive, hence European workers don't stand a chance in competing, unless its in some technical field the Asians can't do on a mass manufacturing scale.

[carnival1200]

generally i would agree with this.i'm impressed at how quickly they get buildings up here but if you look on any building site here you would probably see 5 times as many people doing the same job as would be in the uk.also the heat comes into play.

i was surprised to read a few years ago that the spanish worked the longest hours in europe.

I think quality - or lack of - plays a major part.  I seem to recall , not so long ago, a clerk of works type of guy (buidiing regs.) from Pattaya was murdered because he tried to do his job

[Dakhar]

To all the Farangs who think Thai people are Lazy...............you don't know jack <deleted>................

I would love to give you 5 rai of farmland, 2 Buffalo, a bicycle, and a freeking old run down shack and see how well you do feeding a Family of 4 - 5.

You spoilt westerners don't know nothing at all.......................

I will give you a scenario, it ain't freek all to do with Thailand, but it's an example of how you westerners think you are so superior.... Imagine this :

You awake to find yourself in the Amazonian rain Forest, what would you do, You would die !

Along comes an uneducated Native who has lived in the rain forest all his life, he is hunting and gathering to feed his family, this native never ever had an education, but he can survive in his surroundings, where as you could not!

So don't always think that you are so better than Thai people, cos I tell you something, if you were as adaptable as they were, you would enjoy your time in Thailand so much better, it's just that you cannot adapt!!

And that my friend, is your problem, not Thailands or Thai peoples, just yours!!

PS. I'm back !

Unless you throw in a hamock (Krytonite for the hard working Thai) the deal is off.

No seriously, I know there is a percentage that work hard and are not afraid to work, and for some ungodly reason work crazy hours, and don't even bother to think.... "Wait a tick, my labor is being sold.... this is a business transaction.... I sell my time and my labor.... I work over time.... you should pay me."

Our staff never think that through one bit. Yep, we are off to work again tomorrow (Sunday) but it doesn't really count as work because we have to travel 6 hours to the work site.... Savvy that? The Thai staff are thrilled.... me I am typically anoyed.

In America, it is more of a "if I do this for you boss, than this is done in return for me" here it is a "family" event when the staff aint even family. National Holiday? So what? The intire staff of over 100 people gather up and are bussed out to some cow pasture they call a resort..... and it is a BLAST for them...

Me I am thinking, wow, I could have been home doing my thing, with my time....

But I do have to say, they are far from organized, have a problem? Throw everything you got at it, eventually it will be resolved. Was the shotgun a Thai invention?

Well time for bed, early day tomorrow.

I dream of a 40 hour week schedule.... heck I dream of a schedule.

[torito]

You spoilt westerners don't know nothing at all.......................

Generalizations always end up laughable, or is that a generalization?

As a spoilt westerner, I have spent some time working jobs so exhausting I was sure my body would simply cease to function. And after 4 hours of sleep, get back up and go at it again. I've worked in meat lockers, oil rigs, and the family farm to name a few, and I will stack up what a healthy western lad can produce against any other. I am sure we would come out just fine.

That being said, I will say in Thailand I have seen both sides of the coin. I believe it depends on who's butt is on the line when it comes to effort at work. I've seen more than my share of workers picking beard hairs in mirror or snoozing off the afternoon. But there are also those who either desperately need the job or are working for themselves. Those are the guys that put out. Lazy just doesn't happen when you got your own farm, and farmers the world over are outworking just about anyone, and getting paid nothing for it. But hey they got to eat.

The answer here is to develop some long term vision. Start rewarding workers for integrity and commitment, and you will see the future get brighter for Thailand's work force.

'canuckamuck' I regard you as an exception to the rule. There are always exceptions and generalizations are unfair to them.

However, the point is, and I think you stated it in your last paragraph, that rewarding is the key factor. That is what I also indicated. You cannot judge willingness to work hard if there is no reward.

Farangs always see the horizont and the future with confidence. Thais do not see it, neither the opportunities, even if you put them on their face, because this is something alien to them. For westerner reward is a right.

[sukanyacondo]

You spoilt westerners don't know nothing at all.......................

Thats the whole point....They try in here to lecture about what hard work it is when they have no idea what it is all about.

The fact it is that developing countries people, Asian, Latinos, etc., work harder than the local wherever they go in the world to a developed country.

Work hard is a comparative statement. Farangs coming here would never work as hard as Thai working in their farang countries. Farangs have no idea what "work hard" means.

Erm thanks but up until a few years ago i worked 6 days a week 12 hours a day without any lunch breaks. Only now am I relaxing a bit by using the money i made on land investments.

So I do know what hard work is and my job is painting decorating tiling bath and kitchen fitting etc etc .

[tijnebijn]

I found out when paying Thais(when we talking about workspeed.......),paying them once an amount instead of everyday.I noticed very clearly when paying them everyday they will'chuj chuj' slowly on.When giving them money done for the job you will see that they speed up considerably.It is just a suggestion,it is also understandable,like this they can take the money when the job is done,and after the job is done take another job somewhere else,so more income!And the job I want them to do is finished quick,and they make more cash,and both are out better,the guy makes more cash then when daily paid and you are out cheaper ,cause they will take their time to finish any job.......Well it is just my experience.

[bina]

what is considered hard work?

my father in law considered hard work as work that u work at phyically, u did it well, and u got it done. he didnt consider office work, engineering, or teaching as hard work. i think however that those doing these jobs would consider that hard work also.

i work hard. physically and mentally (agricultural and tourism and yes i do my own goat yard mucking out, at my advanced age of 45). my (thai ) husband works hard but not mentally. his boss called the other day to say could i please explain to husband (language barriers here) that he wants my husband to 'enlarge his head' i.e. take on more responsibility, think about hwat he does, not just do the basics (they work as a team in lawn maintenance: mowing, pruning, irrigation, etc). i asked my husband and he says when he works he doesnt want to think. i.e. he prefers to pick fruit, cut flowers, or til the soil w/o putting in mental hours doing it or thinking about doing it better. he does the same for 11 shekels, or for 22 (minimum wage he's finally getting). he wants over time and will work it. but when offerred an extra job on the side at someone's house for extra cash, his answer was 'pom pakpon'. he's definatley not in the lazy thai male category, just not in the super protestant work ethic category either.

all the thai i know (and thats lots) work hard but not neccessarily always perfectly well: sometimes the methods could be improved and not basing that on their employers providing better tools. sometimes its just pure 'laziness' and no desire to do it (whatever the it is) perfectly, but to just get it done more or less. they work long hours, and dont sit on the side and scratch their balls, or chat on the cells phones, they work more rapidly in physical labour than we do (my son works along with thai workers in the cherry trees and on the cherry sorting line, 12 hrs every friday, and he comes home and falls over from tiredness) but they tend to not like complicated missions . its not even due to lack of education as i've met educated thai working in agriculture. its a mind think. they wont NOT do the job. but they will put in least amount of effort to get the job done. which is better than our local supply of labour which prefer to sit on the side and play with the cell phones, or do half a job, and get more money and complain.

someone mentioned career. my husband cannot understand why i put so much energy in my job when it doesnt effect my salary. that my job is part of me. for him, work is the means to the end only. and he will put in the least amount of energy to get the most result w/o being too lazy about it.

'picking beard hairs' LOL. .. i thought i saw that only here among a few workers (had a thai guy do that when he would finish with a particular job, instead of look for the next thing to do, would sit he would pick his beard hairs and wait for me to come along and tell him what next, even if he knew --- after all zoo work, animal feeding etc is a routine......

[meemiathai]

ha, ha ,ha, ha, ha ,ha, ha,hahahahahahahahahahah!- <deleted>! ever been to isaan??

frikkie

And of course, 'Freaky the Bore' could do such much better with the same tools.

Hey Freaky, while you are sat behind a PC feeling superior, many people in Isaan are working the fields trying to feed their families!

I don't think a lot of people here know where Isaan is. Isaan is the southern 3 provinces of thailand.

So what is it like in Isaan, frikin de balls?

[kmart]

Some really "productive" post-counts on here....

Get back to work you listless idlers.

[Mid]

Isaan is the southern 3 provinces of thailand.

[blizzard]

all i kjnow about issarn is if you ask a thai if they from issarn and they are not they are a bit insulted.

thai country music must come from issarn, hillbilly music............lol.

[wolfmanjack]

Just a personal observation. Most of the Thai that are not lazy work by the piece and the lazy ones work by the day.

[khunmarc]

That's easy, its just factored into the price of the finished product, which for you "the consumer" or "the ignornant socialist crusader" ends up being more expensive than without all those benefits.

This thread was started to point out how hard Thai workers work, & I'm refuting that (as a generalisation), by saying whilst they work long hours, they aren't necessarliy working hard or being productive.

Cheers,

Soundman.

Headline from somewhere else :

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/04/business/sweat.php

In a Thai border town, Burmese workers toil in penury

well thats life isnt it?? all them people in the rest of the world work for peanuts so we can have cheap goods at wallmart or its brit version tesco.....

why do you think bananas are $0.50 a pound??? if everyone in the world would get fair wages we could not afford opur life style in the West... no more trip to the sun and your thai gals would cost you ... well the same as you pay home !!!!!! that would at leat end the perverts from preying on poverty !!!!

[moonoi]

That's easy, its just factored into the price of the finished product, which for you "the consumer" or "the ignornant socialist crusader" ends up being more expensive than without all those benefits.

This thread was started to point out how hard Thai workers work, & I'm refuting that (as a generalisation), by saying whilst they work long hours, they aren't necessarliy working hard or being productive.

Cheers,

Soundman.

Headline from somewhere else :

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/04/business/sweat.php

In a Thai border town, Burmese workers toil in penury

well thats life isnt it?? all them people in the rest of the world work for peanuts so we can have cheap goods at wallmart or its brit version tesco.....

why do you think bananas are $0.50 a pound??? if everyone in the world would get fair wages we could not afford opur life style in the West... no more trip to the sun and your thai gals would cost you ... well the same as you pay home !!!!!! that would at leat end the perverts from preying on poverty !!!!

Actually Wallmart is in the UK.....its called Asda

Anyway my opinion having worked here for the last 2 1/2 years it that while Thais' work long hours, they do not work efficiently. On top of that you have a culture in the office where if one person stays late others will too..when I asked about this the reason I was given is because they thought that person might get a promotion before them because they do longer hours!!! I don't care how many hours they work. We have the same size team here as we had back in europe, however back in europe before the group was off-shored the work got done within a 9-6 working day. Here most people are putting 10 hours a day in and still not getting through as much work.

So for those of you that claim Thais' have better work ethics and work harder than westerners. In my experience this is not true.

On a positive note, they are getting much much better now

[highdiver]

Work is translated in the Thai language as ngan. The word is associated with a lot of activities; ngan boon (merit), ngan pee mai (new year celebration), ngan sob (funeral), ngan kathin (a kind of group merit-making), ngan tang ngan (marriage) etc. Most of ngan would be associated with fun. You will see Thais work very hard but also laugh and smile at the same time. However, many foreigners take the view that Thais are not serious or concentrated and were careless about their work.

The thais are doing what most forigenrs have forgoten. they work to live and not live to work as so many people in weastern countries.

[moonoi]

Work is translated in the Thai language as ngan. The word is associated with a lot of activities; ngan boon (merit), ngan pee mai (new year celebration), ngan sob (funeral), ngan kathin (a kind of group merit-making), ngan tang ngan (marriage) etc. Most of ngan would be associated with fun. You will see Thais work very hard but also laugh and smile at the same time. However, many foreigners take the view that Thais are not serious or concentrated and were careless about their work.

The thais are doing what most forigenrs have forgoten. they work to live and not live to work as so many people in weastern countries.

Thats the biggest load of twaddle I've read in a long time. Thais' are exactly the same as the rest of the world when it comes to wanting money, things etc etc. In fact in some ways they are worse.

What also contradicts your post is that back in europe most people work 9-6...occassionally some extra overtime. Here they do a minimum 10 hours a day, even when they don't have to.

Probably differant out in the sticks, but in BKK what you state just doesn't hold true.

[highdiver]

Work is translated in the Thai language as ngan. The word is associated with a lot of activities; ngan boon (merit), ngan pee mai (new year celebration), ngan sob (funeral), ngan kathin (a kind of group merit-making), ngan tang ngan (marriage) etc. Most of ngan would be associated with fun. You will see Thais work very hard but also laugh and smile at the same time. However, many foreigners take the view that Thais are not serious or concentrated and were careless about their work.

The thais are doing what most forigenrs have forgoten. they work to live and not live to work as so many people in weastern countries.

Thats the biggest load of twaddle I've read in a long time. Thais' are exactly the same as the rest of the world when it comes to wanting money, things etc etc. In fact in some ways they are worse.

What also contradicts your post is that back in europe most people work 9-6...occassionally some extra overtime. Here they do a minimum 10 hours a day, even when they don't have to.

Probably differant out in the sticks, but in BKK what you state just doesn't hold true.

please reads again.

i never said thais are not like others by working hard. they want things the same as every one.

I did say that in the Thai mentality work is associated even by the verbal term as something that they enjoy doing and they do so while smiling However, many foreigners take the view that Thais are not serious or concentrated and were careless about their work or presumed lazy.

[moonoi]

Work is translated in the Thai language as ngan. The word is associated with a lot of activities; ngan boon (merit), ngan pee mai (new year celebration), ngan sob (funeral), ngan kathin (a kind of group merit-making), ngan tang ngan (marriage) etc. Most of ngan would be associated with fun. You will see Thais work very hard but also laugh and smile at the same time. However, many foreigners take the view that Thais are not serious or concentrated and were careless about their work.

The thais are doing what most forigenrs have forgoten. they work to live and not live to work as so many people in weastern countries.

Thats the biggest load of twaddle I've read in a long time. Thais' are exactly the same as the rest of the world when it comes to wanting money, things etc etc. In fact in some ways they are worse.

What also contradicts your post is that back in europe most people work 9-6...occassionally some extra overtime. Here they do a minimum 10 hours a day, even when they don't have to.

Probably differant out in the sticks, but in BKK what you state just doesn't hold true.

please reads again.

i never said thais are not like others by working hard. they want things the same as every one.

I did say that in the Thai mentality work is associated even by the verbal term as something that they enjoy doing and they do so while smiling However, many foreigners take the view that Thais are not serious or concentrated and were careless about their work or presumed lazy.

Yes because its true and if you ask then about it they'll tell you the same! Its nothing to do with the word thats used to describe work

[Dakhar]

Trained an employee once to perform a specific task.

When it came time for her to perform that task, she said.... "I can't do it, I recieved training on how to do it.... but I figured I never would have to do it, so I did not bother to learn." We have trained around 40 people to do this type of work and I would say about 20% of them simply flat out refuse to do the task, and ask to be transfered to some type of clerk position.

PROGRESS we did fire one of them recently for this behavior. Wow, progress....