Unexpected Cars

[WarpSpeed]

Take my work for it, it's a Tans Am or at least by the front fender side scoops it should be. lol I really like the 56 Bellaire. Where exactly is this place and what kind of prices do they have on these cars?

It's a very poorly converted something or other, if anything a late 60's Firebird dressed like a T/A but that rear end is not right, the rear window line is all wrong, it looks to be a front windshield from something else, they all had slotted rear tail lights it was a T/A trademark, those tail lights are off some Somchai's farm trailer, neither is the front valance nor the hood scoop, the rear end is way too low and too long which makes me think this car was converted from something else entirely and poorly done at that..

The lines are terrible, even in the pictures it is obvious that it has tons of bondo used to mold it..And the grills you're referring to are crap as well and not even close since the originals are all but flush with the body work. Anyone that pays 500,000b for that is a fool beyond all fools..

Edited April 21, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[stingray]

Take my work for it, it's a Tans Am or at least by the front fender side scoops it should be. lol I really like the 56 Bellaire. Where exactly is this place and what kind of prices do they have on these cars?

It's a very poorly converted something or other, if anything a late 60's Firebird dressed like a T/A but that rear end is not right, the rear window line is all wrong, it looks to be a front windshield from something else, they all had slotted rear tail lights it was a T/A trademark, those tail lights are off some Somchai's farm trailer, neither is the front valance nor the hood scoop, the rear end is way too low and too long which makes me think this car was converted from something else entirely and poorly done at that..

The lines are terrible, even in the pictures it is obvious that it has tons of bondo used to mold it..And the grills you're referring to are crap as well and not even close since the originals are all but flush with the body work. Anyone that pays 500,000b for that is a fool beyond all fools..

This is Thailand and today 500'k is a normal price for a project trans am (not restored one). I use to have a couple perfect ones 10 years ago from 350 to 700'k priserange (here in Pattaya), but times is changing now. For a nice Trans Am from the 70ties you pay over a million Baht today, if you beable to find one (including correct registraton and V8 engine). BTW, the rear window from the white "69" one is original like this, there is nothing changed. The good thing for Trans Ams you can get any parts at www.yearone.com

500'k isn't that bad, you put another 500'k into restaurations and for one Mill you have a perfect Trans Am. In US or Europe they cost also over 20'000 US. So 1 million for Thailand isn't a bad price. What other real sport car can you buy for 1 Mill?

The one below was mine:

Edited April 21, 2010 by stingray

[WarpSpeed]

I'm telling ya Stinger that ain't no T/A!! Nothing about it is right! Enlarge the picture as large as you can, click on it and then click on it again the lines are all wrong and it ain't about restoration, that car is junk and not even close to original I don't even think it started out as a Pontiac possibly..

I even provided similar comparison pictures to relate to it...Another example is that a real Pontiac or T/A trunk lid is about half the size of the one on that car, they had a trunk you'd be lucky to get a spare tire into..

Edited April 21, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Loz]

Id say it is a VERY lashed up Firebird. rear end butchered. front end full of filler. agree, the rear glass has been broken and replaced with a "close" fit. It doesn't line up at all well. but where would you get s 72 Pontiac rear window from in Thailand?

[WarpSpeed]

I'm telling ya Stinger that ain't no T/A!! Nothing about it is right! Enlarge the picture as large as you can, click on it and then click on it again the lines are all wrong and it ain't about restoration, that car is junk and not even close to original I don't even think it started out as a Pontiac possibly..

I even provided similar comparison pictures to relate to it...Another example is that a real Pontiac or T/A trunk lid is about half the size of the one on that car, they had a trunk you'd be lucky to get a spare tire into..

Stingray is correct.

It is a 1970-73/4 Transam (or Firebird with ad ons). The glass, door handles and trunk lid are correct. The rear lights, behind the original rear light fittings on each side in the body panels in a Firebird are 3 round holes. This car has removed the originals and fitted round lights in the rear panel. Trunk lids on all Firebirds including T/A are the same, and on this car the lock is correct. The bonnet scoop looks like an after market purchase or it's been raised up. The vents in the rear of the bonnet are there up till l think 1977 so not a f/glass job. Second gen Firebirds always look saggy at the rear. The exhaust tip is in the original position but l can't see the one on the other side. Look at the gap around the bonnet between the wings, typical GM build of the time

The car looks crap and has lots of filler but it is a Pontiac T/A or Firebird with ad ons, but not a Formula 400.

The white Firebird in a reference photo above is a 1968/9 first gen Firebird, totally different car.

Wait! How is Stingray correct or more over my being incorrect? My first post said it was possibly a crap Firebird underneath all of the crap bondo but it is likely not an original Trans Am!! You're confirming my post and my suspicions.. I just put the <deleted> pictures up for an example of what should be, not as a perfect example..

By the way all of the things you mention which you believe distinguish it can be bought in the aftermarket and installed as one would if they were trying to make a reproduction, but bottom line is the fact that you can not change the lines of the car and the finishing well to match and that is where the major discrepancies lie with this car, everything is very sloppy and improperly fitting and NO! GM's quality of the time was not that lacking and the pictures I provided prove that, as was their purpose..

Edited April 22, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[tb86]

What is "unusual" about these cars is that they (and many more not in the pics) belong to a single Thai person's collection.

thats my wifes uncle.... hes got a sick collection of lotuses, the dodge ram srt is pretty sick, hes kickin around in a nice new gtr dudes got more cars, than any one man should be allowed to have.. He usualy has one or two nice ones stashed at marina across from paragon as well.... Jealous much.. Not bad for a guy that grows flowers for a living

[WarpSpeed]

Oh <deleted> forget it! It's impossible to have an intelligent exchange with you.. Once again I've wasted the effort..

[stingray]

I'm telling ya Stinger that ain't no T/A!! Nothing about it is right! Enlarge the picture as large as you can, click on it and then click on it again the lines are all wrong and it ain't about restoration, that car is junk and not even close to original I don't even think it started out as a Pontiac possibly..

I even provided similar comparison pictures to relate to it...Another example is that a real Pontiac or T/A trunk lid is about half the size of the one on that car, they had a trunk you'd be lucky to get a spare tire into..

Stingray is correct.

It is a 1970-73/4 Transam (or Firebird with ad ons). The glass, door handles and trunk lid are correct. The rear lights, behind the original rear light fittings on each side in the body panels in a Firebird are 3 round holes. This car has removed the originals and fitted round lights in the rear panel. Trunk lids on all Firebirds including T/A are the same, and on this car the lock is correct. The bonnet scoop looks like an after market purchase or it's been raised up. The vents in the rear of the bonnet are there up till l think 1977 so not a f/glass job. Second gen Firebirds always look saggy at the rear. The exhaust tip is in the original position but l can't see the one on the other side. Look at the gap around the bonnet between the wings, typical GM build of the time

The car looks crap and has lots of filler but it is a Pontiac T/A or Firebird with ad ons, but not a Formula 400.

The white Firebird in a reference photo above is a 1968/9 first gen Firebird, totally different car.

Wait! How is Stingray correct or more over my being incorrect? My first post said it was possibly a crap Firebird underneath all of the crap bondo but it is likely not an original Trans Am!! You're confirming my post and my suspicions.. I just put the <deleted> pictures up for an example of what should be, not as a perfect example..

By the way all of the things you mention which you believe distinguish it can be bought in the aftermarket and installed as one would if they were trying to make a reproduction, but bottom line is the fact that you can not change the lines of the car and the finishing well to match and that is where the major discrepancies lie with this car, everything is very sloppy and improperly fitting and NO! GM's quality of the time was not that lacking and the pictures I provided prove that, as was their purpose..

Sorry, this was maybe my missunderstanding, because my limited english knowledge: I couln't find all the points "warp speed" mentioned, because i looked on the picture with the orange one. I thought you spooted them somewhere locally, therefore i also thought 5oo'k is a bargain. I didn't know you talked about the red one above your post. The red one (i know the car) it's a piece of crap and noth worth 500'k.

Rear or front windows for US cars, they can make in a factory in Nakorn Phatom. There they made my frontwindscreen for my Olds Cutlass in one week and it was a perfect job. Side windows on the doors, would be a problem, therefore i bought a "spare car" (junk one) for my oldsmobile. Just in case!

[stingray]

My little "collection" over the past years:

[stingray]

My little "collection" over the past years:

Cool. Memories eh.

Yes, and all in Thailand. It was much better 10 years ago. You could find almost everything. But today.........no way!

[INTJ]

Stingray, has the yellow TransAm in your picture been repainted red ?.....I think I know the current owner.

Also, what is the dark red car in picture no. 4 ? Looks nice.

Cheers

Edited April 22, 2010 by INTJ

[stingray]

Stingray, has the yellow TransAm in your picture been repainted red ?.....I think I know the current owner.

Also, what is the dark red car in picture no. 4 ? Looks nice.

Cheers

The dark red one was a 53 Benz "Adenauer" 4 door, convertible (99% all original), sold it to a German Museum, back to Germany.

The yellow TA is the "red" one now, correct. But the condition isn't the same anymore.

[WarpSpeed]

First off I'm glad to see no one took off with my OTT responses to T/A I was having a bad day and unnecessarily over-reacted, my apologies.

Having said that I still maintain, as now Stinger has also expressed that the T/A in question is 1)Either not a T/A at all and just a poor copy produced from something else or 2) a crap Firebird with a poorly done T/A skin and aero dressing over the top..

Stinger, thanks for you clarification...

[INTJ]

Stingray, that old Benz is beautiful, what is the value of that in Thailand ? I'd have thought it was worth much more than in Germany. I think I saw something similar in Auto Exchange recently, cream coloured.

True classic, not like the American thing next to it

Cheers

[A_Traveller]

Stingray, what was the TBird's year, same platform as the '76 Lincoln Mark IV which I had years ago, in the UK!

Regards

[Khutan]

quite a few old holdens down south. Saw an old Kingswood in BKK about a month ago....

I saw one about the same also. There has been a 1969 XW falcon parked up behind Imperial Samrong for a while.

The best I have seen is a 1963 Thunderbird parked in my old Condo, only ever saw it driven a few times.

[WarpSpeed]

Your mother never taught you when to just close your mouth and walk away did she? You just don't know when to back off and go home do you?? I'm guessing you get your arse kicked quite a bit..

I'll just leave it at that...

But seriously, l worked on Firebirds for 25 yrs as a hobby and this car interests me, love a pic from under the hood etc. Seems l miss my hobby.

And yet you still have not managed to recognize a fake? Pretty sad really, like a watch dealer who can't tell the difference from a Rolex and Rolek..

Not a single T/A of any year had those type of tail lights, they ALL had trademark slotted tail lights, pre 70's or later no matter even yours does, end of discussion.. Even Stinger told you it was a piece of junk and you still hold your ground, that's just a fool who's ego won't let him admit he's wrong and nothing more..

As for MG I couldn't give a rats arse, it's a British piece of junk no longer produced and not even the company in existence but a Trans Am is my territory!!

Edited April 23, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[stingray]

Stingray, that old Benz is beautiful, what is the value of that in Thailand ? I'd have thought it was worth much more than in Germany. I think I saw something similar in Auto Exchange recently, cream coloured.

True classic, not like the American thing next to it

Cheers

Personally i'm a american muscle car fan. The Benz is a complete different car, it's a Oldtimer. Trans Ams are fun you can use as a daily driver, if the weather is ok. It's just another kind of sport cars, in my opinion better than a Opel Manta a Prelude or Nissan SX, or what ever. I like the blubbering sound of a V8. They call them Muscle Car.

Anyway regarding the Benz: Cars like this can not sale in Thailand. Locals don't understand the true value of a classic car and how to take care. In Thailand i try to sell that car at least 6 months for 2.5 Mil Baht on the local marked and everyone (even some pattayas cheap charlie farangs) complained me about that high price for such a old car. But i'm Swiss and i also had some conections to European Car enthusiasts and clubs (in that time we didn't have Internet). So finally i cotacted some German who has connections with a Auto Museum and he came to Thailand, bought the car and exported it. I sold it to him for 120'000 DM paid in my Swiss account. (No have Eruo in that time, still was D Mark). There was a few Adenauer Benz at that time in Thailand. Most of them was Hard top, but i had the convertible. Today the car would be much more worth, but as you know, whe nyou dealing with cars, you can't keep them for your self.

[sticklee]

Yesterday in Chiang Mai, a pearl white Lotus Elise with red 'dealer' plates. The day before, another Mk. 1 Cortina. This one in red, white and blue, original interior. The second 4 door I've seen. The first is (was) for sale. Red and white advertised as 'restored, superb'. Not adjectives I would have used. I've heard of a 2 door done in Lotus colours.

[WarpSpeed]

Yeah right, I'm going down to Pattaya just to look up the VIN on some piece of junk T/A copy to see if it is original to settle this?? I didn't have a bad day until I put up a contrite and conciliatory post directed at you and instead of changing your tone or tactic you just keep bleating on and making dismissive, contentious and provocative comments.

It is worth it to me to stand up when someone isn't big enough to tone down their rhetoric and continues to brow beat and direct barbs towards me after I've been big enough to concede over-reacting a bit on another point, as you've just done in the post I referenced..

On another point, are you trying to contend that the sway bar is not a removable nor replaceable/changeable part?? What you're failing to understand is that the basis for any car being the chassis and the basic lines of the car are absolute and can not be changed without obvious outward fabrication, where as all of the parts you've mentioned can simply be bought, fabricated, removed or added to give you the perception of something being original.. If this was a T/A why would anyone change the most outwardly distinguishable part on it (slotted tail lights) if they were trying to keep it for it's future resale value or any other purpose for that matter?

Edited April 23, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[INTJ]

Do you need a hairy chest and a medallion to drive a Trans Am

[Rdrokit]

Ok guys here is the low down on that white Firebird. I did not want to put in my 2 cents as I was not 100% sure of my opinion so I sent the photo to an Pontiac/Oldsmobile restorer I know in the States. At the present he has a 1970 T/A and a 1969 Hurst Olds that are 100 point cars and he just sold a 1969 442 that was perfect. Here are his comments on the car,

That's a 1969 Pontiac Fire Bird with the optional Trans-Am package. color is correct and so are the stripes. The T/A option was just that an option. In 1970 it was not and option, it was a Trans-Am.

They made 600 and some change, only eight convertibles Trans-Am's were made, four 4-speeds and four automatics. Most of them were Ram-air III cars but some were Ram-air IV also, Very rare.

I do know Jim Wangers has one.

when I was in my teens I had a chance to buy one once put I didn't know what I was looking at and I passed on

Now back to the topice of the thread "Unexpected Cars" Here is a 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass you can see running around Korat during the day and parked in my driveway at night.

[WarpSpeed]

Ok guys here is the low down on that white Firebird. I did not want to put in my 2 cents as I was not 100% sure of my opinion so I sent the photo to an Pontiac/Oldsmobile restorer I know in the States. At the present he has a 1970 T/A and a 1969 Hurst Olds that are 100 point cars and he just sold a 1969 442 that was perfect. Here are his comments on the car,

That's a 1969 Pontiac Fire Bird with the optional Trans-Am package. color is correct and so are the stripes. The T/A option was just that an option. In 1970 it was not and option, it was a Trans-Am.

They made 600 and some change, only eight convertibles Trans-Am's were made, four 4-speeds and four automatics. Most of them were Ram-air III cars but some were Ram-air IV also, Very rare.

I do know Jim Wangers has one.

when I was in my teens I had a chance to buy one once put I didn't know what I was looking at and I passed on

Now back to the topice of the thread "Unexpected Cars" Here is a 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass you can see running around Korat during the day and parked in my driveway at night.

I'm not quite sure which "white Firebird" you're referring to, but I suspect you mean the one I pictured for my example. If that's the case I appreciate your confirmation of my understanding. Most of this debate has been over the junk red Firebird for sale in the previous pictures and why I'm certain if it is a T/A it is not original and may even be a fabrication of some kind to look like a T/A ...Your Olds is top stuff, nice color too, thanks for sharing..

[WarpSpeed]

Just got back from Pattaya, this is what happened to the rear lights, he said red shirts.

That particular year there was no distinguishing the base model tail lights from the T/A so unfortunately it still does not prove the case, but anyway this has grown tiresome and is too far off topic..

JFYI my last comment on the topic; I would still have found a way to have those reconditioned or as Stinger says purchased a new set from Year One instead of putting those crap trailer lights on the back of that car, to me that speaks volumes about the rest of the car and the care it got over it's life time..

Edited April 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[stingray]

Your mother never taught you when to just close your mouth and walk away did she? You just don't know when to back off and go home do you?? I'm guessing you get your arse kicked quite a bit..

I'll just leave it at that...

But seriously, l worked on Firebirds for 25 yrs as a hobby and this car interests me, love a pic from under the hood etc. Seems l miss my hobby.

And yet you still have not managed to recognize a fake? Pretty sad really, like a watch dealer who can't tell the difference from a Rolex and Rolek..

Not a single T/A of any year had those type of tail lights, they ALL had trademark slotted tail lights, pre 70's or later no matter even yours does, end of discussion.. Even Stinger told you it was a piece of junk and you still hold your ground, that's just a fool who's ego won't let him admit he's wrong and nothing more..

As for MG I couldn't give a rats arse, it's a British piece of junk no longer produced and not even the company in existence but a Trans Am is my territory!!

Sounds like you have had another bad day Warpy.

You still have NOT read my post regarding the rear lights PROPERLY. The ORIGINAL plastic tail lights, which were a one piece plastic unit, have been REMOVED and the HOLES in the rear panel have had round lights stuck in the holes. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW. God it's difficult.

IF., you want to know more about how to tell if it is a real T/A please contact me. I am sincerely not saying it is but the signs are there. To be getting on with, measure the sway bar/anti roll bar, if it is a T/A it will measure one and one eighth too one and a quarter inch (if l remember correct), if less not a T/A. Other than that, if left hand drive, the VIN code can be read through the windscreen in the top of the dash, drivers side. Let me know the code and l will look it up Warpy. Please calm down, it's not worth getting over heated or eeeer, stroppy.

U are correct, 78 or 79 models still hace a steelframe over the large plastic lenses and 3 inner holes each side, after 1979, they had only plastic lights, the before 79 was a better option, because could change the light bolbs from inside, true to the 3 round holes each side. 80ties model don't have the inner round holes anymore, have to remove the whole taillight from outside to getting to the light bolbs. Maybe Warp Speed had this model in mind.

Regarding the red junk, i think it was a Pontiac Trans Am, maybe a firebvird esprit only, where the put the spoilers on and changed the hood. How ever it is junk. About the Vin number you can't be sure, because many VIN numbers are changed. US Car import normally only until 1974. Later "black import" they used book, Vin number and registration plates from old Pontiacs, already existing in Thailand, becase in those earlier books was never mentioned about the model, firebird for exanmple. Only the brand, in this case Pontiac, and the VIN plates are exchanged. Those cars actually are illegal, but the authorities don't know. Therefore even Trans Ams from the 80ties with T Tops are registered as a 74 in the blue book. 74 not have T Top and body look a little diferent, specially the rear anf front end and the rear window was smaller. I never saw a late Trans Am in LOS with the correct Year of registration. Be avare when you buy a american car. The VIN Number and the year of registration have to be correct as the car.

[stingray]

Stingray, what was the TBird's year, same platform as the '76 Lincoln Mark IV which I had years ago, in the UK!

Regards

Yes, T bird was 1972, same chassis as the Lincoln Continental Mark 4 and 5 (until 76). Engine was a 429 cubic inches. Bought it fro 75'k that time but had to pay a 140'k back taxes and have to restor the car. spent almost 400 all thgether. Was a nice car.

[WarpSpeed]

maybe a firebvird esprit only, where the put the spoilers on and changed the hood. How ever it is junk. About the Vin number you can't be sure, because many VIN numbers are changed. US Car import normally only until 1974. Later "black import" they used book, Vin number and registration plates from old Pontiacs, already existing in Thailand, becase in those earlier books was never mentioned about the model, firebird for exanmple. Only the brand, in this case Pontiac, and the VIN plates are exchanged. Those cars actually are illegal, but the authorities don't know. Therefore even Trans Ams from the 80ties with T Tops are registered as a 74 in the blue book. 74 not have T Top and body look a little diferent, specially the rear anf front end and the rear window was smaller. I never saw a late Trans Am in LOS with the correct Year of registration. Be avare when you buy a american car. The VIN Number and the year of registration have to be correct as the car.

This is what I have been saying all along, thanks for the confirmation Stinger...But as well it has had serious work so much so that it has distorted the body out of proportion, it may have been seriously wrecked as well and they wanted to save it due to it's 'rarity'. I wouldn't even be sure the hood has been changed into a T/A maybe just a cut out Firebird hood it's that bad..

Edited April 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[stingray]

Sorry, the last time when i saw the car it was in Hua Hin, 2 years ago, not in Pattaya. Don't rember the dashboard, sorry. To rermove the VIN, you need only take out the instruments and the cover from them. Than yu remove the left air vent, losen up the sgrew from the dash a little vid on the left upper side and "voila"! Beleve me the car is not worth it. If you are interested, There is a firebird at :

http://www.one2car.com/CarInfor/cardetails...90288&row=2

It's junk too, but not so junk. It would be good enought for a restauration. But it's not a Trans Am. Price is 990'k (I called them).

[WarpSpeed]

As well the windshield can be removed without too much difficulty, it's done all the time..

[WarpSpeed]

That Bird is in much better shape but still couldn't part with 900,000 for it though..