jeffrosner Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Mr. Rosner enjoys Fred Reed Fred on Everything Mr. Rosner has been reading Fred for years. This writing deserves wide dissmination on ThaiVisa. Comments welcome: Fred Reed Their Own Self Half-Assed in Haggledom Economic Laws for the Real World June 9, 2007 Why are Third-World countries poor, while those in the First World aren’t? (The phrase “third world” is a tad shaky, embracing as it seems to Taiwan, Thailand, and Mexico, and also Haiti and Zaire. We will use it for convenience.) The standard explanation in the Third World is that the West, chiefly the United States, exploits them, buying their raw materials and selling them manufactured goods. Everything is someone else’s fault. The reasons I think are otherwise. The advanced nations will exploit anyone they can, but this hasn’t kept Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Argentina, and many other countries from prospering. Start with corruption. In many poor countries, virtually everything is for sale. You can bribe the cops to get out of a ticket or bribe them to beat up an enemy, bribe a general in the army to overlook illegal logging, bribe anybody to do anything. The result is that really the country barely has laws, which means that you can never be sure of your legal ground. Businesses need predictability. Corruption exists in advanced counters, but there is less of it, and it tends to take organized form, as in campaign contributions, affirmative action, and seats of boards of directors after leaving office. Suspected Economic Law: The easier it is to bribe a working-stiff cop, the poorer the country. Sheer governmental inefficiency has much to do with it. When I was in Taiwan many years ago, when the country was first developing, I talked to an American businessman about Asia. Taiwan, he said, had Enterprise Zones, fenced regions with buildings and utilities in place. You signed one document, brought in your machinery, hired workers, and started production. In Thailand, he said (it may no longer be true) you had to negotiate for months with the Interior Ministry to get land, then months with the Labor Ministry, then months, then months, meanwhile bribing everybody right and left. I’ve got the names of the ministries wrong, but you get the point. Suspected Economic Law: Prosperity varies inversely with the time between beginning negotiations to open a factory and getting first product. While inefficient government retards economic progress, it doesn’t follow that countries with inefficient governments will always be poor. Industry in the United States has been so productive that, although the government is worse than useless, the country can withstand it. A serious obstacle to prosperity is Half-Assedness, a quality not widely recognized in econometrics but well known to experienced travelers. Half-Assedness is a curious mixture of just not giving a ######, lack of ambition, little interest in academics, and sometimes something that looks like lethargy. You go into houses and never see books. A man will start a garage to repair cars for a living. He won’t think of expanding and owning a chain of garages. His family has enough to eat, so why do more? The young, though they could pursue school beyond some pre-high school level, don’t. They marry early instead of establishing themselves first. They live in the present, whereas people in rich countries have one foot in the future. An American thinks college, grad school, career. He is going somewhere, or trying to. He may not adhere to his plan, but he has one. An element of Half-Assedness is a slack attitude toward maintenance. People who could easily afford nineteen cents for a brake-light bulb don’t. They throw trash in the streets. Potholes go unprepared for years. Suspected Economic Law: National income is inversely proportional to the amount of trash in the streets. Another aspect of Half-Assedness is an incapacity to attach importance to time. This comes in two flavors, wholesale and retail. At the wholesale level, an American thinks, “Oh my god, I’m thirty and haven't made partner.” A Third-Worlder lacks any sense of urgency. He sees existence as a period through which one passes instead of an interval in which one does things. At time’s retail level, Third-Worlder’s think that four o’clock means anywhere from five-thirty to not at all. It isn’t rudeness or inconsideration. If you do it to them, they won’t be offended. By contrast, an American reporter, say, knows that if his nine-o’clock interview happens at nine, the one at eleven will be possible, and the business lunch will come off on time, so that he can hit the computer by three and file at five. It works. Americans show up ten minutes early and wait. In the Third World, writing the same story would take three days instead of one. Suspected Economic law: Per capita income correlates with the average number of minutes by which people miss appointments. In the Third World there is a different attitude to commerce. An American businessman is likely to give a new client a good price, or at least the going price, in hopes of acquiring him as a regular customer. If in the Third World a European gets a haircut without asking the price, he will be charged eight dollars when the correct price is four dollars. He will never come back. This is normal third-world economics—gouge the customer to the max without thought of the future. The practice is encouraged by the reliance on haggling in poor countries. I have sometimes wondered whether this doesn’t make tricking the customer more important than having a good product. Suspected Economic Law: Countries that bargain have less money than those that don’t. The what-me-care attitude can be, to an American, incomprehensible. You want a roof job that would cost several thousand dollars, a lot of money in many countries. The workmen promise to come the next day to give you an estimate. They don’t show. You call, and they say, well, my car broke. Next day, same thing. They got to your town but couldn’t find the house. And so on. So you go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot or some similar First-World enterprise and get the job done. Another element of Half-Assedness is, depending on your politics, cultural or inherent, but unmistakable. Some populations just aren’t very bright, or at any rate don’t seem to be. Sub-Saharan Africa, though rich in resources, is pea-turkey poor and not improving. Arab countries, even when awash in oil money, do not establish First World societies that could survive without oil. In South America the white countries, such as Chile and Argentina, could be in Europe. The highly Indian countries, as for example Bolivia and Peru, would be basket cases if they could afford the basket. Suspected Economic Law: The more European or East Asian blood, the more money. That’s Fred on economics. Lynch mobs may take a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Jeff, the relevance to Thailand seems tenuous or incidental, but I've got other irons in the fire, and will let someoby else decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowthai Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 National IQ's Country Average IQ GDP Predicted GDP Hong Kong 107 20,763 19,817 Korea, South 106 13,478 19,298 Japan 105 23,257 18,779 Taiwan 104 13,000 18,260 Singapore 103 24,210 17,740 Austria 102 23,166 17,221 Germany 102 22,169 17,221 Italy 102 20,585 17,221 Netherlands 102 22,176 17,221 Sweden 101 20,659 16,702 Switzerland 101 25,512 16,702 Belgium 100 23,223 16,183 China 100 3,105 16,183 New Zealand 100 17,288 16,183 U. Kingdom 100 20,336 16,183 Hungary 99 10,232 15,664 Poland 99 7,619 15,664 Australia 98 22,452 15,145 Denmark 98 24,218 15,145 France 98 21,175 15,145 Norway 98 26,342 15,145 United States 98 29,605 15,145 Canada 97 23,582 14,626 Czech Republic 97 12,362 14,626 Finland 97 20,847 14,626 Spain 97 16,212 14,626 Argentina 96 12,013 14,107 Russia 96 6,460 14,107 Slovakia 96 9,699 14,107 Uruguay 96 8,623 14,107 Portugal 95 14,701 13,589 Slovenia 95 14,293 13,588 Israel 94 17,301 13,069 Romania 94 5,648 13,069 Bulgaria 93 4,809 12,550 Ireland 93 21,482 12,550 Greece 92 13,943 12,031 Malaysia 92 8,137 12,031 Thailand 91 5,456 11,512 Croatia 90 6,749 10,993 Peru 90 4,282 10,993 Turkey 90 6,422 10,993 Colombia 89 6,006 10,474 Indonesia 89 2,651 10,474 Suri name 89 5,161 10,474 Brazil 87 6,625 9,436 Iraq 87 3,197 9,436 Mexico 87 7,704 9,436 Samoa (Western) 87 3,832 9,436 Tonga 87 3,000 9,436 Lebanon 86 4,326 8,917 Philippines 86 3,555 8,917 Cuba 85 3,967 8,398 Morocco 85 3,305 8,398 Fiji 84 4,231 7,879 Iran 84 5,121 7,879 Marshall Islands 84 3,000 7,879 Puerto Rico 84 8,000 7,879 Egypt 83 3,041 7,360 India 81 2,077 6,322 Ecuador 80 3,003 5,803 Guatemala 79 3,505 5,284 Barbados 78 12,001 4,765 Nepal 78 1,157 4,765 Qatar 78 20,987 4,765 Zambia 77 719 4,246 Congo (Brazz) 73 995 2,170 Uganda 73 1,074 2,170 Jamaica 72 3,389 1,651 Kenya 72 980 1,651 South Africa 72 8,488 1,651 Sudan 72 1,394 1,651 Tanzania 72 480 1,651 Ghana 71 1,735 1,132 Nigeria 67 795 -944 Guinea 66 1,782 -1,463 Zimbabwe 66 2,669 -1,463 Congo (Zaire) 65 822 -1,982 Sierra Leone 64 458 -2,501 Ethiopia 63 574 -3,020 Equatorial Guinea 59 1,817 -5,096 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrosner Posted June 10, 2007 Author Share Posted June 10, 2007 Mr. Rosner wonders out loud "What's your point?" Mr. Rosner also looked for the source but couldn't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang prince Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Mr. Rosner wonders out loud "What's your point?"Mr. Rosner also looked for the source but couldn't find it. I enjoyed Fred's column. I don't agree with all of it but there is plenty food for thought in what he says. However, Mr. Rosner, your habit of referring to yourself in the third person is very irritating and pompous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrosner Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share Posted June 11, 2007 Mr. Rosner validates Farang Prince's upset and acknowledges same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendix Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larvidchr Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 It is a psychiatric condition, allthough in this case I dont think it is very serious Kind regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbt71fa Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Mr. Rosner wonders out loud "What's your point?"Mr. Rosner also looked for the source but couldn't find it. Mr. Rosner, most people in the explotive U.S. think you're a tad daft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naka Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) Mr. Rosner. What brilliant insight ! As someone who has spent most of the last forty years living and working in the third, and sometimes, places I would consider the fourth world I loved your post. It expresses many of my thoughts over those decades, but sadly, was unable to put into words as you so eloquently did. Again sadly, you will get a lot of negative responses here from the PC mob who consider themselves to be world travelers and experts on foreign culture. All this based on a lifetime in their own country plus a couple of years in Thailand (if any) spiced up with a holiday or two in Brighton, Ibiza, Miami, or wherever. Half-Assedness ! Yea, I remember that well. In one country where I worked for many years my engineers would would be proud because they reported a problem to me. Hey ! these people were being employed to fix these things. What you said initially is correct ... poor countries are populated by lazy people. Naka. Edited June 11, 2007 by naka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Jeff, is that you in the avatar, or a very pompous Jack Benny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 National IQ's Country Average IQ GDP Predicted GDP Hong Kong 107 20,763 19,817 Korea, South 106 13,478 19,298 Japan 105 23,257 18,779 Taiwan 104 13,000 18,260 Singapore 103 24,210 17,740 Austria 102 23,166 17,221 Germany 102 22,169 17,221 Italy 102 20,585 17,221 Netherlands 102 22,176 17,221 Sweden 101 20,659 16,702 Switzerland 101 25,512 16,702 Belgium 100 23,223 16,183 China 100 3,105 16,183 New Zealand 100 17,288 16,183 U. Kingdom 100 20,336 16,183 Hungary 99 10,232 15,664 Poland 99 7,619 15,664 Australia 98 22,452 15,145 Denmark 98 24,218 15,145 France 98 21,175 15,145 Norway 98 26,342 15,145 United States 98 29,605 15,145 Canada 97 23,582 14,626 Czech Republic 97 12,362 14,626 Finland 97 20,847 14,626 Spain 97 16,212 14,626 Argentina 96 12,013 14,107 Russia 96 6,460 14,107 Slovakia 96 9,699 14,107 Uruguay 96 8,623 14,107 Portugal 95 14,701 13,589 Slovenia 95 14,293 13,588 Israel 94 17,301 13,069 Romania 94 5,648 13,069 Bulgaria 93 4,809 12,550 Ireland 93 21,482 12,550 Greece 92 13,943 12,031 Malaysia 92 8,137 12,031 Thailand 91 5,456 11,512 Croatia 90 6,749 10,993 Peru 90 4,282 10,993 Turkey 90 6,422 10,993 Colombia 89 6,006 10,474 Indonesia 89 2,651 10,474 Suri name 89 5,161 10,474 Brazil 87 6,625 9,436 Iraq 87 3,197 9,436 Mexico 87 7,704 9,436 Samoa (Western) 87 3,832 9,436 Tonga 87 3,000 9,436 Lebanon 86 4,326 8,917 Philippines 86 3,555 8,917 Cuba 85 3,967 8,398 Morocco 85 3,305 8,398 Fiji 84 4,231 7,879 Iran 84 5,121 7,879 Marshall Islands 84 3,000 7,879 Puerto Rico 84 8,000 7,879 Egypt 83 3,041 7,360 India 81 2,077 6,322 Ecuador 80 3,003 5,803 Guatemala 79 3,505 5,284 Barbados 78 12,001 4,765 Nepal 78 1,157 4,765 Qatar 78 20,987 4,765 Zambia 77 719 4,246 Congo (Brazz) 73 995 2,170 Uganda 73 1,074 2,170 Jamaica 72 3,389 1,651 Kenya 72 980 1,651 South Africa 72 8,488 1,651 Sudan 72 1,394 1,651 Tanzania 72 480 1,651 Ghana 71 1,735 1,132 Nigeria 67 795 -944 Guinea 66 1,782 -1,463 Zimbabwe 66 2,669 -1,463 Congo (Zaire) 65 822 -1,982 Sierra Leone 64 458 -2,501 Ethiopia 63 574 -3,020 Equatorial Guinea 59 1,817 -5,096 I thought anything under an IQ of eighty was considered an actual (dictionary definition) idiot. I thought your average street mutt had an IQ of sixty. So deducted from the above listed national IQ's (which I don't for one second believe) almost the whole of Sub-Saharra'n Africa are brainless. I reckon I'd check another source. Soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naka Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 So deducted from the above listed national IQ's (which I don't for one second believe) almost the whole of Sub-Saharra'n Africa are brainless. I reckon I'd check another source. Soundman. Ok Soundman, give us another source ! Ever been there ? ... Do tell. Naka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 So deducted from the above listed national IQ's (which I don't for one second believe) almost the whole of Sub-Saharra'n Africa are brainless.I reckon I'd check another source. Soundman. Ok Soundman, give us another source ! Ever been there ? ... Do tell. Naka. What part of my post suggests I have been to Africa? Please be so bold as to enlighten us all..... Soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frikkiedeboer Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Mr. Rosner enjoys Fred Reed Fred on EverythingMr. Rosner has been reading Fred for years. This writing deserves wide dissmination on ThaiVisa. Comments welcome: Fred Reed Their Own Self Half-Assed in Haggledom Economic Laws for the Real World frikkie enjoyed fred reed's post and agrees with everything he posted. i wonder why there are so many people who make excuses and apologies and allowances for the non-performance of third world countries, when the reasons for it are so blatantly obvious. "half-assedness" certainly describes it perfectly. i ,for one, look forward to fred's next publication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave111223 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I do agree with much said however do find some statements odd: Industry in the United States has been so productive that, although the government is worse than useless, the country can withstand it.Based on what critea are they "worse than useless"You go into houses and never see books. A man will start a garage to repair cars for a living. He won’t think of expanding and owning a chain of garages. His family has enough to eat, so why do more? The young, though they could pursue school beyond some pre-high school level, don’t. They marry early instead of establishing themselves first. They live in the present, whereas people in rich countries have one foot in the future. An American thinks college, grad school, career. He is going somewhere, or trying to. He may not adhere to his plan, but he has one. I dont read many books, does this make me any less of a person? When most knowledge or entertainment in this day and age can be aquired through alternative media. Maybe some people place more value in relaxation or family than wealth and power; surely this is just a personal preference and not a personality flaw. Just because someone is ingrained with the process of "Go to college after highschool" does this necessarily mean they know why they are going to college or have a "plan"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frikkiedeboer Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 (edited) I thought anything under an IQ of eighty was considered an actual (dictionary definition) idiot. I thought your average street mutt had an IQ of sixty. So deducted from the above listed national IQ's (which I don't for one second believe) almost the whole of Sub-Saharra'n Africa are brainless. I reckon I'd check another source. Soundman. i was born in south africa, and was shocked by the information posted. at i first wanted to make a negative reply, but after thinking about it for a while,it made sense,and answered many questions. i would not doubt the credibility of this information, and tend to agree: most of the population of sub saharan africa falls into the "brainless idiot" category. look at the likes of one Robert Mugabe, who would make an average street mutt look like a genius in comparison, and you will know why the average is so low. i think that the figures must have been taken from a rather recent study, though, and would have liked to have had a chance to compare it to a study made, say, before the mass exodus of those less brainless people who saw the writing on the wall and emigrated from this region-those who were fortunate enough to be able to. Edited June 11, 2007 by frikkiedeboer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 i was born in south africa, and was shocked by the information posted. at i first wanted to make a negative reply, but after thinking about it for a while,it made sense,and answered many questions. i would not doubt the credibility of this information, and tend to agree: most of the population of sub saharan africa falls into the "brainless idiot" category. look at the likes of one Robert Mugabe, who would make an average street mutt look like a genius in comparison, and you will know why the average is so low. i think that the figures must have been taken from a rather recent study, though, and would have liked to have had a chance to compare it to a study made, say, before the mass exodus of those less brainless people who saw the writing on the wall and emigrated from this region-those who were fortunate enough to be able to. Whilst not discarding you comment about the "brainless idiot" Robert Mugabe (Didn't he attend Oxford?), I would like to add.... I have met quite a few people from South Africa now living in Australia & not one of them seems to be nearly half as intelligent as a person from Hong Kong as the above report would seem to suggest. Cheers, Soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 From some site specialising in IQ calculations: What does the IQ scale measure? What is an average score? How high can an IQ be? Here are some answers to these and other questions. First of all, the concept of IQ was developed by either the German psychologist and philosopher Wilhelm Stern in 1912, or by Lewis Terman in 1916, depending on which sources you consult. Intelligence testing was first done on a large scale before either of these dates. In 1904 psychologist Alfred Binet was commissioned by the French government to create a testing system to differentiate intellectually normal children from those who were inferior. Thus the IQ scale called the "Binet Scale," (and later the "Simon-Binet Scale") was developed. Sometime later, "intelligence quotient," or "IQ," entered our vocabulary. Lewis M. Terman revised the Simon-Binet IQ Scale, and in 1916 published the Stanford Revision of the Binet-Simon Scale of Intelligence (also known as the Stanford-Binet). The following scale resulted for classifying IQ scores: IQ Scale Over 140 - Genius or almost genius 120 - 140 - Very superior intelligence 110 - 119 - Superior intelligence 90 - 109 - Average or normal intelligence 80 - 89 - Dullness 70 - 79 - Borderline deficiency in intelligence Under 70 - Feeble-mindedness Normal Distribution of IQ Scores 50% of IQ scores fall between 90 and 110 70% of IQ scores fall between 85 and 115 95% of IQ scores fall between 70 and 130 99.5% of IQ scores fall between 60 and 140 Cheers Soundman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I found the article to be well thought out and obviously based on some real life experience. I was disappointed at the end whoever where he made an argument for intelligence based on blood. Pretty muddy water there and the worst sort of racism (master race delusions). The rest of his arguments found culture to blame, and I agree with that. As far as the IQ post was concerned, without a source, it is just the opinion of a ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrosner Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share Posted June 11, 2007 Jeff, is that you in the avatar, or a very pompous Jack Benny? WELL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Jeff, is that you in the avatar, or a very pompous Jack Benny? WELL! Let's see what I recall without checking: his wife was Mary, his butler was Rochester...were they from Milwaukee? Not relevant to Thailand, after all. And I fear that attempts to make it relevant will cause Thai-bashing. Topic closed. Better luck next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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