Tell me your thoughts on the "emergency self defense" ED visa

[PadPrikKhing]

It's starting to look like a viable alternative to the Non-O and retirement extension, mainly because it doesn't require the huge money deposit. I wouldn't mind learning self-defense two nights a week, two hours each class. That sounds easy. I'd be looking at doing it in Chiang Mai. 

 

One thing that is still confusing about it is that the info I was looking at says that with this arrangement, you can leave the country for up to 30 days at a time, but I don't get how that works with the two nights a week requirement. Also, if I lived in Chiang Mai I would probably need to leave during the peak of smoke season 2023, and I wonder if I'd be able to do that with this visa.

 

Are there any pitfalls or drawbacks to this visa that you guys know of that I don't see yet? The info says that it's easy stuff and they don't put you through any gnarly physical training, which sounds good because I'm probably too old for that. But it'd be no problem to learn some gun disarm moves, eye-gouges, and things like that.

[tonray]

7 minutes ago, PadPrikKhing said:

But it'd be no problem to learn some gun disarm moves, eye-gouges, and things like that.

Can they teach you how to avoid document scrutiny at Immigration without serious injury ?

[skatewash]

You're never too old to learn some good eye-gouges, I always say.

[kingstonkid]

actually sounds like a good way to get out of the house and exercise

 

Any locations around pathum Thani

[LivinLOS]

The sudden availability and local red carpet treatment of this option. provided by the military base just sprung up, after the military took control of the country.. 

 

No connection of course, just random timing ????

[BritTim]

One thing to verify is the maximum length of time, consecutively, you are allowed to be in Thailand when using a Non Ed visa based on a non formal school. I believe it used to be true that you could not extend your stay, when using such a visa, past the 12-month anniversary of your arrival in Thailand.

[Tropposurfer]

9 hours ago, skatewash said:

You're never too old to learn some good eye-gouges, I always say.

I had heard on the grapevine that Soi 6 Pattaya was a great place to go and learn advanced techniques of this ... I hear the 'boys'? there are Masters 

[Maestro]

9 hours ago, PadPrikKhing said:

...One thing that is still confusing about it is that the info I was looking at says that with this arrangement...

 

It might help if you gave a link to the info you were looking at. 

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

I had heard on the grapevine that Soi 6 Pattaya was a great place to go and learn advanced techniques of this ... I hear the 'boys'? there are Masters 

I can well believe it. However, I do not think they teach formal courses which qualify for a Non Ed visa, and associated extensions of your permission to stay in Thailand.

[Mac Mickmanus]

15 hours ago, PadPrikKhing said:

It's starting to look like a viable alternative to the Non-O and retirement extension, mainly because it doesn't require the huge money deposit.

An agent can provide a retirement visa without the bank funds , would need to pay extra though , but probably cheaper than enrolling in a self defense course 

[PadPrikKhing]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

One thing to verify is the maximum length of time, consecutively, you are allowed to be in Thailand when using a Non Ed visa based on a non formal school. I believe it used to be true that you could not extend your stay, when using such a visa, past the 12-month anniversary of your arrival in Thailand.

Yes, this is what I need to look into. The website of one outfit that is selling this visa package (cmlocals.com) describes it as a thing that easily affords a year at a time, and they say that they'll handle all of the immigration drudgery for you (including accompanying you to the IO). They also imply that renewing and getting a second year is not a  big deal. So you can see why I'm suddenly attracted to this.

[PadPrikKhing]

8 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

It might help if you gave a link to the info you were looking at. 

True, sorry. It's https://www.cmlocals.com/emergency-self-defense/

Edited February 3, 2022 by PadPrikKhing

[PadPrikKhing]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

An agent can provide a retirement visa without the bank funds , would need to pay extra though , but probably cheaper than enrolling in a self defense course 

Believe me, I'm also considering that way as well. But it worries me because no one has been able to assuage my fears that doing it that way could result in suddenly being found out at any time and deported. You're right, this way is about 25,000 a year, and I see that the self-defense visa (at least if using this cmlocals.com as agent) costs about 38,000-40,000 a year, so quite a bit cheaper than the ED.

 

I'm trying to negotiate between my distaste for the idea of needing to park 800k in a bank, and going with the agent-enhanced no-deposit retirement visa but worrying all the time. Are you sure that there is no situation that could come up where some officer comes out of left field and demands to see the bank account holding 800k that backs my visa, and I'm unable to show one? Like, are you sure that can't happen to me as I'm re-entering the country from a jaunt to a nearby country? I realize that once I have the right visa in my passport, that's usually all anyone needs to see and they wouldn't question further... but is it one of those things where I could have an unlucky day and an immigration officer might just be "in a mood" and make such a demand for no real reason and catch me flat-footed? That's what I'm afraid of, and I'm looking for someone (preferably multiple someones) to convince me that that won't happen. If I can be convinced that won't happen, I'll definitely go for the agent-facilitated retirement-visa-without-the-bank-funds way.

Edited February 3, 2022 by PadPrikKhing

[PadPrikKhing]

17 hours ago, tonray said:

Can they teach you how to avoid document scrutiny at Immigration without serious injury ?

An excellent question, and quite aligned with the spirit of this post...

[mrwebb8825]

I have an "ED" course starting called "Do It Right and Legal" that will alleviate all the worries an agent brings, all the hassles of spending days on end searching for ways to game the system and offers a free exercise program to boot.

For the low low price of just 9,999 baht, a member of our staff will walk you to the bank and help your cheap azz pry your wallet open and deposit the required, legal amount of funds. If needed, we offer free role play practice beforehand for a nominal fee.

After completion of the banking class you will be relieved of the burden of carrying and caring for the bankbook as our friendly staff member will then take custody of said documents and even assist you with capturing them on your very own phone, again, for a nominal fee.

The next level of the course will require you to relax at home, by a pool or on a beach while a member of our staff sits with you and makes that all to painful phone call to your local IO and writes down a list of all documentation required for the visa extension you're currently qualified to possess. (for a nominal fee)

The 3rd level of the course involves deep, mental exercise as our friendly staff goes through the list and helps you to remember where you currently keep them. As this course progresses these documents will be collected and stored in your very own lock box complete with your name embossed in Italicized Script (gold plating extra) and again, for a nominal fee.

The final level of the course introduces you to the wonderful world of electronic devices such as Calendar. Teaches you in a simple, repetitive manner of gentle prodding how to use your very own finger to press Date, Time, Event and Reminder. (for a nominal fee)

Graduation Package! For the low low cost of just 19,999 baht we will phone you 10x 2 days before your due date, 10x the day before your due date and 10x in the early morning on the day you're due to get your lazy butt out of bed and go to the IO.

Upon request, a friendly member of our staff will arrive at 7am to go with you to make sure you don't hit any police boxes or pee on your Honda City in public on your way to the IO, again, for a nominal fee.

Welcome To Thailand and hope to see you soon!

[Freddy42OZ]

6 hours ago, PadPrikKhing said:

Believe me, I'm also considering that way as well. But it worries me because no one has been able to assuage my fears that doing it that way could result in suddenly being found out at any time and deported. You're right, this way is about 25,000 a year, and I see that the self-defense visa (at least if using this cmlocals.com as agent) costs about 38,000-40,000 a year, so quite a bit cheaper than the ED.

 

I'm trying to negotiate between my distaste for the idea of needing to park 800k in a bank, and going with the agent-enhanced no-deposit retirement visa but worrying all the time. Are you sure that there is no situation that could come up where some officer comes out of left field and demands to see the bank account holding 800k that backs my visa, and I'm unable to show one? Like, are you sure that can't happen to me as I'm re-entering the country from a jaunt to a nearby country? I realize that once I have the right visa in my passport, that's usually all anyone needs to see and they wouldn't question further... but is it one of those things where I could have an unlucky day and an immigration officer might just be "in a mood" and make such a demand for no real reason and catch me flat-footed? That's what I'm afraid of, and I'm looking for someone (preferably multiple someones) to convince me that that won't happen. If I can be convinced that won't happen, I'll definitely go for the agent-facilitated retirement-visa-without-the-bank-funds way.

I doubt very much that an immigration officer at a border entry point would ask to see proof that you had 800k in your account when the visa was issued.  First of all why would you be carrying your bank book.  Secondly, it is my understanding that the agents put 800k in your account in order to get your the retirement extension, so if you had your bank book on you (unlikely) and he asked (also unlikely) you'd be ok as the book would show the funds were in there at some point. 
 

[DrJack54]

6 hours ago, PadPrikKhing said:

Are you sure that there is no situation that could come up where some officer comes out of left field and demands to see the bank account holding 800k that backs my visa, and I'm unable to show one?

Would not happen. 

[mokwit]

I think with these kind of visas the question is whether it is being issued within "The System" or it represents freelancing by a lower level IO. In that case you could be vulnerable.

Edited February 4, 2022 by mokwit

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 hours ago, PadPrikKhing said:

Believe me, I'm also considering that way as well. But it worries me because no one has been able to assuage my fears that doing it that way could result in suddenly being found out at any time and deported. You're right, this way is about 25,000 a year, and I see that the self-defense visa (at least if using this cmlocals.com as agent) costs about 38,000-40,000 a year, so quite a bit cheaper than the ED.

 

I'm trying to negotiate between my distaste for the idea of needing to park 800k in a bank, and going with the agent-enhanced no-deposit retirement visa but worrying all the time. Are you sure that there is no situation that could come up where some officer comes out of left field and demands to see the bank account holding 800k that backs my visa, and I'm unable to show one? Like, are you sure that can't happen to me as I'm re-entering the country from a jaunt to a nearby country? I realize that once I have the right visa in my passport, that's usually all anyone needs to see and they wouldn't question further... but is it one of those things where I could have an unlucky day and an immigration officer might just be "in a mood" and make such a demand for no real reason and catch me flat-footed? That's what I'm afraid of, and I'm looking for someone (preferably multiple someones) to convince me that that won't happen. If I can be convinced that won't happen, I'll definitely go for the agent-facilitated retirement-visa-without-the-bank-funds way.

I dont think that its ever happened before .

They are legitimate retirement  visas issued by immigration 

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

I think with these kind of visas the question is whether it is being issued within "The System" or it represents freelancing by a lower level IO. In that case you could be vulnerable.

I would think that the money gets shared out among those higher up 

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I would think that the money gets shared out among those higher up 

The problems with visas were when it seemingly wasn't.

[TropicalGuy]

ED Visa benefits are no financials, any age , 30 day Multiple ReEntry, no need to attend classes & school acts as accountable sponsor/ agent.passport disappears for 2-3 wks at MinEd for their initial 12 month letter.Ensure school is reputable.  
 

no extn. beyond the 12 month validity though. some ReEntry beyond 30 days have been challenged by Border Imm. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

ED Visa benefits are no financials, any age , 30 day Multiple ReEntry, no need to attend classes & school acts as accountable sponsor/ agent.passport disappears for 2-3 wks at MinEd for their initial 12 month letter.Ensure school is reputable.  
 

no extn. beyond the 12 month validity though. some ReEntry beyond 30 days have been challenged by Border Imm. 

You are required to attend classes on Ed Visas .

The school can cancel your visa if you don't and they wont give  refund .

Immigration often check up on schools to make sure pupils are attending 

[TropicalGuy]

21 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I dont think that its ever happened before .

They are legitimate retirement  visas issued by immigration 

Yes, providing agent proves visa is on Imm computer & 90 day reporting done with Imm office on passport stamp, you are fully legal & “ bullet proof”.

[TropicalGuy]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You are required to attend classes on Ed Visas .

The school can cancel your visa if you don't and they wont give  refund .

Immigration often check up on schools to make sure pupils are attending 

I didn’t. Imm / Min Ed Check school registers which will show attendance whether actual or not. School ain’t going to ruin their reputation & entire revenue stream by not matching registers to visas or cancelling visas.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, TropicalGuy said:

I didn’t. Imm / Min Ed Check school registers which will show attendance whether actual or not. School ain’t going to ruin their reputation & entire revenue stream by not matching registers to visas or cancelling visas.

 

Some schools are genuine schools there to teach , they have a reputation for teaching students and people who just enroll to get visas are frowned upon .

  Other schools may have a reputation for providing visas without educating their students  

[TropicalGuy]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Some schools are genuine schools there to teach , they have a reputation for teaching students and people who just enroll to get visas are frowned upon .

  Other schools may have a reputation for providing visas without educating their students  

some schools do both…. in order to survive …. any ethical concerns invalid here…..it’s all just Business.

[PadPrikKhing]

21 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

I have an "ED" course starting called "Do It Right and Legal" that will alleviate all the worries an agent brings, all the hassles of spending days on end searching for ways to game the system and offers a free exercise program to boot.

For the low low price of just 9,999 baht, a member of our staff will walk you to the bank and help your cheap azz pry your wallet open and deposit the required, legal amount of funds. If needed, we offer free role play practice beforehand for a nominal fee.

After completion of the banking class you will be relieved of the burden of carrying and caring for the bankbook as our friendly staff member will then take custody of said documents and even assist you with capturing them on your very own phone, again, for a nominal fee.

The next level of the course will require you to relax at home, by a pool or on a beach while a member of our staff sits with you and makes that all to painful phone call to your local IO and writes down a list of all documentation required for the visa extension you're currently qualified to possess. (for a nominal fee)

The 3rd level of the course involves deep, mental exercise as our friendly staff goes through the list and helps you to remember where you currently keep them. As this course progresses these documents will be collected and stored in your very own lock box complete with your name embossed in Italicized Script (gold plating extra) and again, for a nominal fee.

The final level of the course introduces you to the wonderful world of electronic devices such as Calendar. Teaches you in a simple, repetitive manner of gentle prodding how to use your very own finger to press Date, Time, Event and Reminder. (for a nominal fee)

Graduation Package! For the low low cost of just 19,999 baht we will phone you 10x 2 days before your due date, 10x the day before your due date and 10x in the early morning on the day you're due to get your lazy butt out of bed and go to the IO.

Upon request, a friendly member of our staff will arrive at 7am to go with you to make sure you don't hit any police boxes or pee on your Honda City in public on your way to the IO, again, for a nominal fee.

Welcome To Thailand and hope to see you soon!

Sounds perfect! I'll have my lawyer call you.

[PadPrikKhing]

17 hours ago, mokwit said:

I think with these kind of visas the question is whether it is being issued within "The System" or it represents freelancing by a lower level IO. In that case you could be vulnerable.

Thank you. That is exactly the kind of nuance I'm thinking of. So perhaps the choice of agent who facilitates this is very key (I had already assumed that it would have to be a highly connected one).

[PadPrikKhing]

17 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Would not happen. 

You sound very confident of that... I like it.