Russian and Ukrainian tourists in Thailand beginning to face financial transaction and travel problems due to sanctions, invasion

[Boomer6969]

10 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Holding individuals responsible for the actions of their governments is short-sighted, misguided, and frankly ignorant.

I hope you didn't mean that to sound as bigoted as it came out in print.

Food for thought: https://www.intellinews.com/putin-s-popularity-slips-slightly-to-65-but-2020-crises-burnished-the-government-s-image-199362/

 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, pagallim said:

Pre pandemic, virtually daily direct flights from all of the major Russian cities to Phuket including those furthest away such as Moscow and Saint Petersburg.   Looking at todays arrivals and departures (Phuket), I can only see Irkutsk and Vladivostok.

Presumably they will also have to pay their bills with hard currency as well. I hope that the aircraft imprest has lots of $. I have a feeling that if the fuel, landing and parking fees are not paid that the aircraft can be legally impounded until the fees are paid. The problem with that is that the longer the aircraft is impounded, the more the parking fees will be, plus interest as well

[billd766]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

The Russians just started a new service this week. I presume all these Russian tourists had a round trip ticket. Isn't that part of the Thai Pass, unless Thailand is giving Russians a special deal? So return home is paid for.

But whose airline did they fly in on? There are very few airlines flying in and out of Russia now and I doubt if Aeroflot or whatever have any aircraft capable of a return flight from Russia without being refueled. In addition most Russian flights are banned, certainly from the EU and UK airspace. I suppose they could fly via China and refuel there both ways.

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe you could supply the forum with pictures of these good hearted Russians holding up their Ukraine flags and end the war placards in any demonstrations for us all to see ? 

Lots of Russians in London demonstrating with Ukrainians against Putin so I read (BBC?)

[david555]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

The Russian Oligarchs are buying it up. 

1 crypto profits ......

problem to make it to money ..... so yes.... also frozen in a kind ...., i know crypto is your darling type of asset , but gov. are working on it ..... at least my home country banks are reluctant to take  crypto money to accept it as heavy money laundering fines await them ....,

 

sorry to pierce your dream ????

Edited March 2, 2022 by david555

[Adumbration]

15 hours ago, internationalism said:

with all different sanctions and blocks thailand will have to find new ways of trading

No need to find new ways.  They will just rely on the old.  Graft, corruption and under the table payments.

[JackGats]

12 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Maybe you could supply the forum with pictures of these good hearted Russians holding up their Ukraine flags and end the war placards in any demonstrations for us all to see ? 

I read today or yesterday Russians have been demonstrating in Bangkok alongside Ukranians.

[Cocobeach]

15 hours ago, smedly said:

are you for real, western countries are providing them with tools to defend themselves, if you have a problem with that then you are part of the "problem".     #####

Sanctions came a little too late. Russians should be sanctioned before the invasion. But I do agree that the Western counties are providing tools. But what German did in the beginning by just providing helmets was a disgrace. 

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, OmegaRacer said:

Yes, he's for real and quite right. There have been agreements in place to keep countries as buffer zones between Russia and the West (Churchill to Stalin at Yalta and Potsdam in 1944-45 first and NATO to Yeltsin in the 1990s in return for accepting the reunification of Germany). However, these concessions have been pretty much ignored, leading to Putin to lash out.
Not that I condone any of his actions, but it would be wise to consider all points of views before pointing fingers. The world ain't all neatly black and white, despite what some people think.

And making the Russian tourists here scapegoats for their president's action is exactly the shortsighted and irrational-emotional reaction that got us in this mess in the first place.

Unfortunately nobody consulted these buffer zone countries.  With few exceptions they don't trust Russia and want to align themselves with the west.

 

Russia's behavior is driving its neighbors to seek a defensive alliance for protection.  Russia's reaction to their western tilt justifies their fears.

[Albert Zweistein]

12 hours ago, Chiang Mai Will said:

Yes, and 

 

I don't suppose Thailand banned any Russian banks! Not in their financial interest -- and b - - - -r any moral interest!

 

I see even the greedy Swiss financial institutions are 'considering' freezing Russian bank accounts!

 

Many on this site are criticising the Russian people for the Ukranian invasion. I don't suppose many educated Russians support Putin's actions. Repressive states: Russia, China, Belarus, Thailand, Burma feed their public political propaganda and give them no choice in their countries actions.

When CC companies block their cards it's worldwide.

The Swiss don't consider they did freeze Russian bank accounts.

Wrong, many educated Russians do support Putin's actions, I have daily discussions with them on whatsapp.

[StraightTalk]

15 hours ago, AndrewL said:

I think it's pretty clear that Russia was/is a military threat to Ukraine and Ukraine's desire to get into NATO is well justified.

I think it's obvious that Ukraine's desire to get into NATO isn't justified at all - It is a comedy of errors miscalculated by a comedian.

[Stargeezr]

Hearing how much the Russian Ruble has lost in value, must be hurting the visiting Russians that are in Thailand.

  Just think of losing 30 percent of the UK currency, or the US dollar, and you are on a vacation somewhere else in

the world. I would be rather worried. I just wonder how much longer the Rich Russian people will support Putin?

  Their country is being more isolated every day.

[jacko45k]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:56 AM, Asquith Production said:

Russians should be made as uncomfortable as possible then maybe they will see the rest of the world are not going to stand for actions brought about by there leaders.

Yes, although it would be seen as extreme to punish innocent citizens overseas....... Ukrainians are being made to feel far more uncomfortable in their own country by Russian military persons. 

[Henryford]

2 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

Hearing how much the Russian Ruble has lost in value, must be hurting the visiting Russians that are in Thailand.

  Just think of losing 30 percent of the UK currency, or the US dollar, and you are on a vacation somewhere else in

the world. I would be rather worried. I just wonder how much longer the Rich Russian people will support Putin?

  Their country is being more isolated every day.

I have lost 40% of the UK currency, since 2006.

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts and replies removed

[Dont confuse me]

23 hours ago, Conquerbrqvilok said:

Why all this hate to Russians ?have you ever been there? people are civilized, cities are clean and the life quality is better than eastern Europe, Russians are people of dignity unlike Ukrainians they are good on asking charity  

 

Actually I have been with my ex Russian wife. Maybe I went to a different Russia, not so much clean as empty, most of the men including my in laws were drunkards.

So let agree to differ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Albert Zweistein]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:10 AM, Thaijack2014 said:

You might be surprised how little trouble you might get. I don't think that a leader who acts like that finds much sympathy from his countryman. I think that guy betrayed his own country by leading innocent people into a war that nobody wants. On the other hand..... our western leaders are not much better. They didn't invade, but as far as I have learnt they ignored all agreements from before by insisting to militarize the Ukraine against Russia.

Militarize Ukraina against Russia ? I think you are from a different planet. Ignoring all agreements ? Putin always does.

[Chiang Mai Will]

11 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

When CC companies block their cards it's worldwide.

The Swiss don't consider they did freeze Russian bank accounts.

Wrong, many educated Russians do support Putin's actions, I have daily discussions with them on whatsapp.

That's a shame that many of your educated Russian friends support Putin invading the Ukraine with thousands of troops and huge military resources -- bombing and destroying and killing civilians!

 

If I were you I'd choose my friends better! I would want nothing to do with people who support such aggression against innocent people!

[Albert Zweistein]

4 hours ago, Chiang Mai Will said:

That's a shame that many of your educated Russian friends support Putin invading the Ukraine with thousands of troops and huge military resources -- bombing and destroying and killing civilians!

 

If I were you I'd choose my friends better! I would want nothing to do with people who support such aggression against innocent people!

Where did I mention "friends " ? Reading seems difficult for many people on AN.

[daejung]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:52 AM, smedly said:

are you for real, western countries are providing them with tools to defend themselves, if you have a problem with that then you are part of the "problem".     #####

What he wants to say, I think, is that if Russia is reponsible for this agression  and war, no doubt about that,  the west speaking of extending NATO to the east was a red line to them.

[Danderman123]

16 hours ago, Henryford said:

I have lost 40% of the UK currency, since 2006.

I am so sorry for you. But the point is that the Ruble crashed in one day, whereas your currency lost value to the Baht over many years. 

 

 

[heybruce]

22 hours ago, StraightTalk said:

I think it's obvious that Ukraine's desire to get into NATO isn't justified at all - It is a comedy of errors miscalculated by a comedian.

Russia has invaded Ukraine and yet you claim that Ukraine had no need to join a defensive alliance to prevent such an invasion.

 

That's not stretching reality, that's denying it.

[StraightTalk]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Russia has invaded Ukraine and yet you claim that Ukraine had no need to join a defensive alliance to prevent such an invasion.

 

That's not stretching reality, that's denying it.

There would not be an invasion if previous agreements had been honored.

USA's J Baker’s gave assurance not to move one "inch eastward" - this is well documented https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/about
USA and NATO have broken this and other promises ever since the SU ceased to exist.
The Russian have reason to be <deleted>-off and the invasion is justified - which wasn't a spur-of-the-moment decision. Ukraine's comedian honcho together with USA and NATO thought Putin was bluffing... gross miscalculation on their part. Oh well.

[Scott]

5 minutes ago, StraightTalk said:

There would not be an invasion if previous agreements had been honored.

USA's J Baker’s gave assurance not to move one "inch eastward" - this is well documented https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/about
USA and NATO have broken this and other promises ever since the SU ceased to exist.
The Russian have reason to be <deleted>-off and the invasion is justified - which wasn't a spur-of-the-moment decision. Ukraine's comedian honcho together with USA and NATO thought Putin was bluffing... gross miscalculation on their part. Oh well.

Your link does not lead to anything that supports your assertion about assurance.  Please post a correct link.  

 

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, StraightTalk said:

There would not be an invasion if previous agreements had been honored.

USA's J Baker’s gave assurance not to move one "inch eastward" - this is well documented https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/about
USA and NATO have broken this and other promises ever since the SU ceased to exist.
The Russian have reason to be <deleted>-off and the invasion is justified - which wasn't a spur-of-the-moment decision. Ukraine's comedian honcho together with USA and NATO thought Putin was bluffing... gross miscalculation on their part. Oh well.

You actually do not know that.......as it was zero movement of Nato into Ukraine occurred, and still has not. Interesting you used the expression of 'The Russian'... singular, as I believe that is where the problem lies. 

[Scott]

It would appear that there was no agreement surrounding NATO expansion concerning Ukraine:

 

“The bottom line is, that’s a ridiculous argument,” Mr. Baker said in an interview in 2014, a few months after Russia seized Crimea and intervened in eastern Ukraine. “It is true that in the initial stages of negotiations I said ‘what if’ and then Gorbachev himself supported a solution that extended the border that included the German Democratic Republic,” or East Germany, within NATO. Since the Russians signed that treaty, he asked, how can they rely “on something I said a month or so before? It just doesn’t make sense.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/09/us/politics/russia-ukraine-james-baker.html

 

There was an agreement, but it contained nothing about Ukraine never joining NATO or any similar provision.   But what was agreed to was the Budapest Memorandum, in which the newly independent Ukraine gave up 1,900 nuclear warheads in exchange for a commitment from Moscow “to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “to refrain from the threat or use of force” against the country.

 

 

[StraightTalk]

53 minutes ago, Scott said:

Your link does not lead to anything that supports your assertion about assurance.  Please post a correct link.  

 

Here you are.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early
[quote]
 U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials[...]

Baker assures Gorbachev that “neither the president nor I intend to extract any unilateral advantages from the processes that are taking place,” and that the Americans understand the importance for the USSR and Europe of guarantees that “not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.”

[...]the U.S. secretary of state three times offers assurances that if Germany were allowed to unify in NATO, preserving the U.S. presence in Europe, then NATO would not expand to the east.
[unquote]

And
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2022/02/14/how-americas-broken-promises-may-lead-to-a-new-cold-war/

[quote]
Putin: “They played us, simply lied.

Facts on the ground, even broken promises, cannot easily be undone, and the ground of international relations is littered with broken promises. Welcome to Cold War II.
[unquote]

 

 

[sandyf]

On 3/2/2022 at 4:10 AM, internationalism said:

there is a large trade between thailand and russia, ukraine - that includes also armaments to thailand. But it's mostly export from thailand. Agricultural products, especially winter time. 
with all different sanctions and blocks thailand will have to find new ways of trading

I don't see much of a problem there, every chance China could become a conduit for ASEAN nations. Almost certain Putin had already told Xi so I can see a huge east/west split on the horizon.

 

A new cornerstone of relations between China and Russia is a statement that some Western officials say is effectively a Sino-Russian nonaggression pact. It was released by Beijing and Moscow on Feb. 4, when Mr. Xi and Mr. Putin met before the opening ceremony of the Beijing Winter Olympics. The statement said the countries’ friendship “has no bounds.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/26/business/china-russia-ukraine.html

[mtls2005]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:18 PM, billd766 said:

But whose airline did they fly in on? There are very few airlines flying in and out of Russia now and I doubt if Aeroflot or whatever

 

Additionally, the major GDSes (SABRE, Amadeus) have stopped issuing tickets on Russian airlines.

 

Boeing has terminated support agreements with Russian airlines.

 

 

There is a weekly service on S7, just introduced last week. to Krabi from Novosibirsk.

 

 

TAT welcomes S7 Airlines’ new weekly service between Russia’s Novosibirsk and Thailand’s Krabi

 

https://www.tatnews.org/2022/02/tat-welcomes-s7-airlines-new-weekly-service-between-russias-novosibirsk-and-thailands-krabi/

 

 

 

 

[Scott]

6 minutes ago, StraightTalk said:

Here you are.

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early
[quote]
 U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials[...]

Baker assures Gorbachev that “neither the president nor I intend to extract any unilateral advantages from the processes that are taking place,” and that the Americans understand the importance for the USSR and Europe of guarantees that “not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.”

[...]the U.S. secretary of state three times offers assurances that if Germany were allowed to unify in NATO, preserving the U.S. presence in Europe, then NATO would not expand to the east.
[unquote]

And
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2022/02/14/how-americas-broken-promises-may-lead-to-a-new-cold-war/

[quote]
Putin: “They played us, simply lied.

Facts on the ground, even broken promises, cannot easily be undone, and the ground of international relations is littered with broken promises. Welcome to Cold War II.
[unquote]

 

 

There was indeed discussion between Mr. Baker and the Soviet leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev in the months after the fall of the Berlin Wall about limiting NATO jurisdiction if East and West Germany were reunited, no such provision was included in the final treaty signed by the Americans, Europeans and Russians.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/09/us/politics/russia-ukraine-james-baker.html