Windows Vista Basic Vs. Xp Professional

[junkofdavid2]

I'm currently on Windows XP Professional (fake I think, installed by IT City when I had it fixed there, and I can't find our company's original CD bought by previous manager).

I'm thinking of buying a new laptop (Toshiba) which supposedly comes with free gEnuine Windows Vista Home Basic.

Will I still be able to use Windows Vista Home Basic for the same stuff?

I download a lot of videos in different formats (WMV, mpeg, .DAT, etc.), I play forex and watch JAVA charts, use Adobe photoshop, and do some graphic stuff.

Most importantly, I OPEN MANY WINDOWS AT A TIME (up to 20).

1) Will I have a problem if I shift to Windows Vista Home Basic?

2) Does Windows Vista Home Basic come with MS Word, Excell, Power Point, Front Page, Media Player, etc. or do I have to buy that separately?

3) Feel free to add anything else..

[cdnvic]

You would need a copy of MS Office to get those features, although OpenOffice will suffice. It's all I ever use.

Give it a try:

http://www.openoffice.org/

[nikster]

Will I still be able to use Windows Vista Home Basic for the same stuff?

I download a lot of videos in different formats (WMV, mpeg, .DAT, etc.), I play forex and watch JAVA charts, use Adobe photoshop, and do some graphic stuff.

Most importantly, I OPEN MANY WINDOWS AT A TIME (up to 20).

1) Will I have a problem if I shift to Windows Vista Home Basic?

2) Does Windows Vista Home Basic come with MS Word, Excell, Power Point, Front Page, Media Player, etc. or do I have to buy that separately?

3) Feel free to add anything else..

- JavaCharts / ProphetCharts work under Vista, you just have to download the latest Java from www.java.com

- Vista includes Media Player, but none of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, FrontPage - you either have to buy that separately or use OpenOffice. Same as in Windows XP, really.

Get loads of memory, as much as you can. Vista needs it. 1GB is bare minimum, I would recommend 2 or 4. 4GB kits -2x2GB - are just over $200 in the U.S. right now - they have come down in price dramatically since the start of the year.

You will need it when running many apps at the same time, especially heavy hitters like Adobe (anything) or Java.

And... use Firefox...

As for the title of your post "should I shift" - you don't really have a choice when buying a new laptop. Unless Toshiba offers an XP version specifically it would be too much trouble to manually collect all the drivers for the hardware, and it may just not work that well in the end anyway.

Edited June 16, 2007 by nikster

[Jockstar]

You would need a copy of MS Office to get those features, although OpenOffice will suffice. It's all I ever use.

Give it a try:

http://www.openoffice.org/

Are they pretty much the same thing? Do you get Powerpoint etc etc.?

[cdnvic]

OpenOffice has a version of everything Office has except Frontpage which can be covered with Kompozer.

http://kompozer.sourceforge.net/

I'd advise anyone thinking of switching to try Oo alongside Office for a while to make sure it works for everything you need.

[Jockstar]

The reason i ask is. That when my PC had a virus and i had to install XP again. I never had any CDs for MS Office or the likes. So instead of downloading a dodgy copy. If this is as good and free then i'll use that.

[Florin]

I guess the easy thing would be to use Vista Basic, but I think it's a hideous beast...Vista Home Premium at the minimum is required for a decent user experience, otherwise imho you'd be much better off with XP.

[astral]

See this related topic.

[Firefoxx]

I've just had the dubious pleasure of setting up two Sony laptops for some relatives. Vista Home Premium was pre-installed, so I really had no choice for the OS, and there were no XP drivers available. This seems to be the trend, since the brand new (latest model, Santa Rosa) Benq notebook that I bought also had Vista-only (and only x86, not 64-bit) drivers. I really didn't like the experience. A lot of programs that I was used to installing just didn't have Vista versions out yet, and other programs didn't work, period. Others worked very strangely, and all in all it was a headache. It reminds me of XP when I first tried it, and also reminded me of why I try not to use an OS that has been released for less than a year. Basically, a lot of re-learning how to do things, where things are, conforming to the new style, giving up old programs/ways, etc. etc. etc.

Well, at least for my new desktop computer, the components still had XP drivers (but Vista drivers were available), so I'm still enjoying XP there. But, with the amount of new hardware that doesn't support XP anymore, it seems like Vista will be inevitable for many.

So, if you can, put it off (the switch to Vista) for as long as you can.

[cdnvic]

What programs didn't have Vista versions? I haven't had to deal with any yet that couldn't be run in compatibility mode.

[britmaveric]

So far used Vista for a few weeks and I'm impressed. It takes time to get used to, but I think overall a better product than XP.

[Lucifer]

Will I still be able to use Windows Vista Home Basic for the same stuff?

I download a lot of videos in different formats (WMV, mpeg, .DAT, etc.), I play forex and watch JAVA charts, use Adobe photoshop, and do some graphic stuff.

Most importantly, I OPEN MANY WINDOWS AT A TIME (up to 20).

1) Will I have a problem if I shift to Windows Vista Home Basic?

2) Does Windows Vista Home Basic come with MS Word, Excell, Power Point, Front Page, Media Player, etc. or do I have to buy that separately?

3) Feel free to add anything else..

- JavaCharts / ProphetCharts work under Vista, you just have to download the latest Java from www.java.com

- Vista includes Media Player, but none of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, FrontPage - you either have to buy that separately or use OpenOffice. Same as in Windows XP, really.

Get loads of memory, as much as you can. Vista needs it. 1GB is bare minimum, I would recommend 2 or 4. 4GB kits -2x2GB - are just over $200 in the U.S. right now - they have come down in price dramatically since the start of the year.

You will need it when running many apps at the same time, especially heavy hitters like Adobe (anything) or Java.

And... use Firefox...

As for the title of your post "should I shift" - you don't really have a choice when buying a new laptop. Unless Toshiba offers an XP version specifically it would be too much trouble to manually collect all the drivers for the hardware, and it may just not work that well in the end anyway.

Make sure your motherboard can take 4GB. Some have a maximum of 2GBor even 1GB...eek

[cdnvic]

If your mobo is that limited you're probably best off not going to Vista as the processor is probably too slow, among other bottlenecks.

[monty]

What programs didn't have Vista versions

I have Hauppauge MediaMVP's, which require to have a service running, installed from the Hauppauge driver CD.

Simply doesn't work, look like it's running but nothing works...

AFAIK you can't run services in compatibility mode...

[CBinParadise]

There's another important aspect to the Vista versus XP question:

We are all locked in to Microsoft -- we are compelled to use it's Operating Systems, Office software, and to buy new, expensive hardware when MSFT tells us to (witness what Firefoxx describes below).

Vista will increase that lock-in. MSFT wants you to buy new devices (whose drivers only exist on Vista) because MSFT is determined to move from desktop/laptop computing to Entertainment computing.

So, to please record producers and movie studios, Vista's new devices and drivers implement Digital Rights Management that will restrict (even further) what you can do with the new computers you bought.

Take Firefoxx's advice --- put off Vista as long as you possibly can. Take the advice of the poster who suggested trying OpenOffice. If you can afford it, buy a Mac (the transition is not as difficult as you may think, and your driver problems go away with Parallels). If you are technical, consider Ubuntu or other free Operating Systems.

This time we have some choices (not terribly attractive, but they're there). If you buy Vista those choices will go away forever.

I've just had the dubious pleasure of setting up two Sony laptops for some relatives. Vista Home Premium was pre-installed, so I really had no choice for the OS, and there were no XP drivers available. This seems to be the trend, since the brand new (latest model, Santa Rosa) Benq notebook that I bought also had Vista-only (and only x86, not 64-bit) drivers. I really didn't like the experience. A lot of programs that I was used to installing just didn't have Vista versions out yet, and other programs didn't work, period. Others worked very strangely, and all in all it was a headache. It reminds me of XP when I first tried it, and also reminded me of why I try not to use an OS that has been released for less than a year. Basically, a lot of re-learning how to do things, where things are, conforming to the new style, giving up old programs/ways, etc. etc. etc.

Well, at least for my new desktop computer, the components still had XP drivers (but Vista drivers were available), so I'm still enjoying XP there. But, with the amount of new hardware that doesn't support XP anymore, it seems like Vista will be inevitable for many.

So, if you can, put it off (the switch to Vista) for as long as you can.

[junkofdavid2]

I'm aware of the problems associated with Vista still being "untested" or that some programs are not yet adapted to it.

The issue is this.

Vista is "later" than XP.

However, Professional is "higher" than Home Basic.

If I shift from XP Professional ("older but higher") to Vista Home Basic ("lower" but "more advanced"), will I still be able to do the same stuff I was able to do?

(Use similar programs and do many things at a time...)

Edited June 17, 2007 by junkofdavid2

[Firefoxx]

The answer to that is "probably". Vista Home basic doesn't have the perks of the other editions, but many of those perks aren't really necessary to work, and can be replaced by 3rd party programs (as long as you can find programs that work on Vista).

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/...ons/choose.mspx

I still say stick to XP. Wait for a while for Vista to mature, then make the move, unless you're forced to (by buying new hardware). "Newer" isn't necessarily "better", and newer also means adapting, change, new problems, etc. If you have no *need* for Vista, don't. The few "new" things in Vista really aren't worth it.

[cdnvic]

I'd have to disagree. I kept XP on a partition but don't really need it. Vista is far and away a superior product. It runs smoother, boots faster, and is better designed.

[PMK]

I recently bought a Toshiba Satellite that came with Vista Basic. If it has the Vista sticker on it and you buy from a reputable shop, I think you can rest easy about the legitimacy of the Vista software. If you want to be absolutely sure, make them do a clean install from the supplied DVD and in front of you. It is all automated - just takes a fair amount of time. Then go online and see if it downloads updates okay.

I am not a Vista fan (to put it mildly) but can't locate W2K or XP drivers for the wireless adapter and some other things - I doubt there are any, so I am stuck with it. It does run everything I used on XP though, and it seems like suppliers are very quick to release drivers - printer drivers, for example, for Vista.

Peter

I'm currently on Windows XP Professional (fake I think, installed by IT City when I had it fixed there, and I can't find our company's original CD bought by previous manager).

I'm thinking of buying a new laptop (Toshiba) which supposedly comes with free gEnuine Windows Vista Home Basic.

[cdnvic]

I recently bought a Toshiba Satellite that came with Vista Basic. If it has the Vista sticker on it and you buy from a reputable shop, I think you can rest easy about the legitimacy of the Vista software. If you want to be absolutely sure, make them do a clean install from the supplied DVD and in front of you.

Try this list:

http://www.microsoft.com/thailand/cleanshop/

[A_Traveller]

I recently bought a Toshiba Satellite that came with Vista Basic. If it has the Vista sticker on it and you buy from a reputable shop, I think you can rest easy about the legitimacy of the Vista software. If you want to be absolutely sure, make them do a clean install from the supplied DVD and in front of you.

Try this list:

http://www.microsoft.com/thailand/cleanshop/

It is worth noting that the OP said he had work done at IT City, which is 'on the list' and was under the impression that they provided him with Ah AH Jim Lad software.

Regards

[cdnvic]

If you got a bogus copy from a Cleanshop program outlet then contact MS and it will be dealt with.

[CBinParadise]

junkofdavid: I just realized that the following never got posted. Sorry to go on a rant about Vista before answering your questions. Here's what I originally wrote:

I'm thinking of buying a new laptop (Toshiba) which supposedly comes with free gEnuine Windows Vista Home Basic.

Will I still be able to use Windows Vista Home Basic for the same stuff?

I download a lot of videos in different formats (WMV, mpeg, .DAT, etc.), I play forex and watch JAVA charts, use Adobe photoshop, and do some graphic stuff.

Most importantly, I OPEN MANY WINDOWS AT A TIME (up to 20).

1) Will I have a problem if I shift to Windows Vista Home Basic?

2) Does Windows Vista Home Basic come with MS Word, Excell, Power Point, Front Page, Media Player, etc. or do I have to buy that separately?

The new Tosh will probably come with a trial version of Office 2007 (which includes Word, Excel, and Powerpoint but NOT Frontpage). You are probably currently running Office 2003 or possibly Office XP. When the trial runs out, you'll have to buy the whole shebang -- quite an expensive deal if you buy the real stuff. Office 2007 is quite different from your current version --- there's quite a learning curve. The poster who advised you to try the free Opedn Office alternative to Microsoft office was giving you good advice.

Frontpage runs on Vista but not very well, see http://www.realtime-vista.com/news/2007/05...patibilit_1.htm

for details.

Media Player either comes bundled with Vista or can be downloaded from www.microsoft.com), depending on the Vista Flavor. I don't have Home, so I'm not sure.

The videos you play should not be a problem UNLESS you access "premium content" also known as High Definition content. In that case, prepare yourself for a nightmare with Vista's premium content DRM.

Java under vista is still available from Sun.com. I can't tell what forex stuff you play. If you want good answers to your questions, describe your hardware and existing versions fully.

Adobe photoshop will probably run on Vista, DEPENDING ON WHAT VERSION of Photoshop you use. Older versions will not run, even under compatability mode.

Compatability mode is supposed to solve all these sorts of problems, however, a lot of people have had a lot of problems with it (whereas some people have had great success). See lifehacker.com/software/vista/how-to-run-pre+vista-programs-in-compatibility-mode-251492.php

for details.

Vista Home will undoubtedly be able to support 20+ windows --- subject only to the power of the hardware you are running on.

Bottom line: avoid Vista Home as long as you possibly can. There is another poster who recommends Vista strongly -- but he doesn't mention which edition of Vista he's running, on what hardware. A top of the line system will of course run nicely --- but there are better alternatives if you are going to shell out that kind of cash.

Finally, the Vista is newer but XP Pro is higher question is not meaningful (although I completely understand why you are concerned about this). It's just not a question that has a meaningful answer.

I faced the exact same issues you did: I wanted a faster notebook, but I also wanted my existing software, just exactly as I had it set up, with no surprises. I wound up buying a Mac Intel notebook, and running Parallels Desktop, which allowed me to run XP (and all my old software) in a virtual machine on the Mac. All my driver problems went away, and the relief at being out of the Microsoft treadmill was indescribable.

Hope this helps...

[Firefoxx]

Seeing if Vista downloads updates is not really a good indication of whether the install was legit or not. Even a evaluation copy of Vista (which is totally legit, but won't work in the long run) will do everything correctly for 30 days. Then you'll need to activate. There are also pirate copies of Vista out there that are pre-patched, and will actually install an activated Vista (no activation, no expiry, no nothing, updates fine). So, no. The best way is probably to check underneath the notebook. If Vista is included with the notebook, there will be a sticker there that has a MS hologram strip on it (or you should get a manual/installation guide which has this sticker).

[aznyron]

There's another important aspect to the Vista versus XP question:

We are all locked in to Microsoft -- we are compelled to use it's Operating Systems, Office software, and to buy new, expensive hardware when MSFT tells us to (witness what Firefoxx describes below).

Vista will increase that lock-in. MSFT wants you to buy new devices (whose drivers only exist on Vista) because MSFT is determined to move from desktop/laptop computing to Entertainment computing.

So, to please record producers and movie studios, Vista's new devices and drivers implement Digital Rights Management that will restrict (even further) what you can do with the new computers you bought.

Take Firefoxx's advice --- put off Vista as long as you possibly can. Take the advice of the poster who suggested trying OpenOffice. If you can afford it, buy a Mac (the transition is not as difficult as you may think, and your driver problems go away with Parallels). If you are technical, consider Ubuntu or other free Operating Systems.

This time we have some choices (not terribly attractive, but they're there). If you buy Vista those choices will go away forever.

I've just had the dubious pleasure of setting up two Sony laptops for some relatives. Vista Home Premium was pre-installed, so I really had no choice for the OS, and there were no XP drivers available. This seems to be the trend, since the brand new (latest model, Santa Rosa) Benq notebook that I bought also had Vista-only (and only x86, not 64-bit) drivers. I really didn't like the experience. A lot of programs that I was used to installing just didn't have Vista versions out yet, and other programs didn't work, period. Others worked very strangely, and all in all it was a headache. It reminds me of XP when I first tried it, and also reminded me of why I try not to use an OS that has been released for less than a year. Basically, a lot of re-learning how to do things, where things are, conforming to the new style, giving up old programs/ways, etc. etc. etc.

Well, at least for my new desktop computer, the components still had XP drivers (but Vista drivers were available), so I'm still enjoying XP there. But, with the amount of new hardware that doesn't support XP anymore, it seems like Vista will be inevitable for many.

So, if you can, put it off (the switch to Vista) for as long as you can.

This October Imac new O/S called the LEOPARD will be out I have been using windows since I first bought a PC now I am switching to Imac my qusetion is were is a honest authorize dealer of Apple PC in Thailand I did a search and only came up with one in Singapore I found a authorize REseler which ads more to the price and I would not be sure if I would get all the perks Imac offers on a new PC and the newest O/S as for Vista I installed home basic upgrade on my pc did not register it I was not at all happy with it but that was my choice maybe othere will love it

[CBinParadise]

There's another important aspect to the Vista versus XP question:

We are all locked in to Microsoft -- we are compelled to use it's Operating Systems, Office software, and to buy new, expensive hardware when MSFT tells us to (witness what Firefoxx describes below).

Vista will increase that lock-in. MSFT wants you to buy new devices (whose drivers only exist on Vista) because MSFT is determined to move from desktop/laptop computing to Entertainment computing.

So, to please record producers and movie studios, Vista's new devices and drivers implement Digital Rights Management that will restrict (even further) what you can do with the new computers you bought.

Take Firefoxx's advice --- put off Vista as long as you possibly can. Take the advice of the poster who suggested trying OpenOffice. If you can afford it, buy a Mac (the transition is not as difficult as you may think, and your driver problems go away with Parallels). If you are technical, consider Ubuntu or other free Operating Systems.

This time we have some choices (not terribly attractive, but they're there). If you buy Vista those choices will go away forever.

I've just had the dubious pleasure of setting up two Sony laptops for some relatives. Vista Home Premium was pre-installed, so I really had no choice for the OS, and there were no XP drivers available. This seems to be the trend, since the brand new (latest model, Santa Rosa) Benq notebook that I bought also had Vista-only (and only x86, not 64-bit) drivers. I really didn't like the experience. A lot of programs that I was used to installing just didn't have Vista versions out yet, and other programs didn't work, period. Others worked very strangely, and all in all it was a headache. It reminds me of XP when I first tried it, and also reminded me of why I try not to use an OS that has been released for less than a year. Basically, a lot of re-learning how to do things, where things are, conforming to the new style, giving up old programs/ways, etc. etc. etc.

Well, at least for my new desktop computer, the components still had XP drivers (but Vista drivers were available), so I'm still enjoying XP there. But, with the amount of new hardware that doesn't support XP anymore, it seems like Vista will be inevitable for many.

So, if you can, put it off (the switch to Vista) for as long as you can.

This October Imac new O/S called the LEOPARD will be out I have been using windows since I first bought a PC now I am switching to Imac my qusetion is were is a honest authorize dealer of Apple PC in Thailand I did a search and only came up with one in Singapore I found a authorize REseler which ads more to the price and I would not be sure if I would get all the perks Imac offers on a new PC and the newest O/S as for Vista I installed home basic upgrade on my pc did not register it I was not at all happy with it but that was my choice maybe othere will love it

There are two honest Apple dealers that I know of personally. One is in Phuket and the other is in BKK, in Siam Paragon on the third floor (I think). Both of these guys start off expensive, but can be be negotiated with. They know their stuff. Let me know if you need more help in finding either one.

[sjaak327]

I really have to laugh at the MS rants on this thread, and then people want to revert to Apple, excuse me, but that's the manufacturer who locks it's operating system to their own hardware !

I mean, you cannot run OSX LEGALLY on non Mac hardware. Of course you can easily, but not legally.

[CBinParadise]

I really have to laugh at the MS rants on this thread, and then people want to revert to Apple, excuse me, but that's the manufacturer who locks it's operating system to their own hardware !

I mean, you cannot run OSX LEGALLY on non Mac hardware. Of course you can easily, but not legally.

You're missing the point entirely.

Yes, when you decide to run MacOS, you have a very limited choice of hardware. But once you buy that platform, there is nothing that forces you to stick with apple for your NEXT purchase, and in the Mac world there certainly has never been a situation in which people are FORCED to upgrade their computers into a mode where drivers and apps start falling over faster than you can prop them up --- exactly the situation that Firefoxx and others on this thread have encountered with Vista.

I run Vista native and Win XP on the Mac. Vista is by FAR the most troublesome --- any time I try to accomplish some real work on Vista, I find myself fighting computer problems instead of making real-world progress. While writing this, I just discovered that my router's flash upgrader won't run under Vista. Typical. It runs fine in XP on MacOS.

What version of Vista are you running by the way? And when's the last time you used MacOS?

[sjaak327]

I really have to laugh at the MS rants on this thread, and then people want to revert to Apple, excuse me, but that's the manufacturer who locks it's operating system to their own hardware !

I mean, you cannot run OSX LEGALLY on non Mac hardware. Of course you can easily, but not legally.

You're missing the point entirely.

Yes, when you decide to run MacOS, you have a very limited choice of hardware. But once you buy that platform, there is nothing that forces you to stick with apple for your NEXT purchase, and in the Mac world there certainly has never been a situation in which people are FORCED to upgrade their computers into a mode where drivers and apps start falling over faster than you can prop them up --- exactly the situation that Firefoxx and others on this thread have encountered with Vista.

I run Vista native and Win XP on the Mac. Vista is by FAR the most troublesome --- any time I try to accomplish some real work on Vista, I find myself fighting computer problems instead of making real-world progress. While writing this, I just discovered that my router's flash upgrader won't run under Vista. Typical. It runs fine in XP on MacOS.

What version of Vista are you running by the way? And when's the last time you used MacOS?

You clearly have a short memory, remember the move from OS9 to OSX, all of a sudden Mac users where forced to either buy upgraded versions of their programs, or using the dreadfull Classic OS to run their programs, the XP-vista upgrade problems are peanuts compared to that.

Again, I have been using Vista for quite a while (from Beta 2 onwards), first as "secondary OS" but now as first OS, XP has been completely removed. Sure people will have some minor problems but in general I was able to run all of my apps on Vista 32 (I admit that Vista 64 was more of a challenge, mainly because Cisco didn't upgrade their VPN client to be able to run under vista 64).

I will never go back to XP, not because it is a bad os, simply because on my hardware, Vista runs faster, as an added bonus I have improved security, some eyecandy and some additional applications not in XP.

Another step back into memory lane, I seem to remember that upgarding from win95 to WIN2K was more troublesome then the current upgrade.

I indeed fail to see how Microsoft would be able to force anyone to use their software, or upgrade to Vista. Again they have a far better understanding of backwards compatibilty then Apple, (I know it came at a price.) and it will be interesting to see if Microsoft will adopt the same principles when they will skip 32 bit version of their main OS. That might be a very big upgrade indeed.

I currently run Vista Ultimate 32bits, Used Mac OSX 10.4.3 (on an NON mac pc) yesterday.

[CBinParadise]

I really have to laugh at the MS rants on this thread, and then people want to revert to Apple, excuse me, but that's the manufacturer who locks it's operating system to their own hardware !

I mean, you cannot run OSX LEGALLY on non Mac hardware. Of course you can easily, but not legally.

You're missing the point entirely.

Yes, when you decide to run MacOS, you have a very limited choice of hardware. But once you buy that platform, there is nothing that forces you to stick with apple for your NEXT purchase, and in the Mac world there certainly has never been a situation in which people are FORCED to upgrade their computers into a mode where drivers and apps start falling over faster than you can prop them up --- exactly the situation that Firefoxx and others on this thread have encountered with Vista.

I run Vista native and Win XP on the Mac. Vista is by FAR the most troublesome --- any time I try to accomplish some real work on Vista, I find myself fighting computer problems instead of making real-world progress. While writing this, I just discovered that my router's flash upgrader won't run under Vista. Typical. It runs fine in XP on MacOS.

What version of Vista are you running by the way? And when's the last time you used MacOS?

You clearly have a short memory, remember the move from OS9 to OSX, all of a sudden Mac users where forced to either buy upgraded versions of their programs, or using the dreadfull Classic OS to run their programs, the XP-vista upgrade problems are peanuts compared to that.

Wrong. Here's 2 pages describing the overall state of Mac backwards compatability. If you need to you can switch from OS X BACK to OS 9 and then back to OS X AGAIN --- twenty times a day --- without loosing anything. Or as you said, another alternative is to use Classic mode without rebooting. About 25% of Mac users are still running one or the other of these options, five years after OS X was introduced.

Try switching from Vista back to XP today. As many posters have pointed out, it's difficult or impossible because hardware they were forced to buy doesn't come with XP drivers. I am sure that running XP will be a real challenge in about two years. Classic WAS dreadful --- unless you had a piece of hardware or software that needed it --- then it was a lifesaver.

The pages:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106667

http://lowendmac.com/misc/07/0402.html

I will never go back to XP, not because it is a bad os, simply because on my hardware, Vista runs faster, as an added bonus I have improved security, some eyecandy and some additional applications not in XP.

You DON'T have added security in Vista --- unless your BIOS supports TPM, in which case you bought a little additional security for a TON of serious DRM problems. Sure your Vista machine runs faster --- it probably has a lot more hardware to run on. I'd be grateful to hear about the applications that run on Vista but not XP --- I haven't heard of anything significant. Bottom line: Vista users pay a lot for a little eye candy.

Incidentally, it won't be long before Vista closes the door completely on systems running pirated or "illegal" or "unsupported" configurations (like the 10.4.3 system you used yesterday). That's WHY Microsoft is forcing this upgrade on you now.

Another step back into memory lane, I seem to remember that upgrading from win95 to WIN2K was more troublesome then the current upgrade.

I indeed fail to see how Microsoft would be able to force anyone to use their software, or upgrade to Vista.

You fail to see how MSFT could force anyone to use their software???? Try this: Intel introduces the microprocessor, IBM puts it into the first PC, which is hugely successful in businesses, gaining market share (which creates what economists call a network effect). Microsoft, in a brilliant marketing move, arranges for you to pay for a copy of MSFT software when you buy ANY Intel PC --- even if you're not going to use the PC to run Microsoftware. Later, force people to pay for NETBIOS using the same scheme. Now you ARE actually paying for and using MSFT software, like it or not, every time you run an INtel chip OR an Intel clone.

You fail to see how MS could force a change to Vista ???? Try this: MS forces all its third party software developers and hardware device vendors to create Vista-compatible products (or face severe licensing and branding penalties). Exempt Office 2007 from the penalties, as a bonus. Enforce a new bus-management standard for premium content, and get Intel and AMD to support the new standard. Sit back and wait for 3rd party vendors to realize they must create expensive new forms of their software or devices in order for them to be Vista compatible. Watch as XP computers disappear from shelves, and people are forced to buy the ones that come with Vista.

Also, read your own sentence again abut memory lane again --- it was right before your "I fail to see" sentence. the upgrades from Win95 to Win98 and then to WinNT and Win2K each provided MAJOR improvements in OS functionality. So people went to the trouble of upgrading, because their efforts were rewarded in the form of significantly improved OSes. The move from XP to Vista rewards MS far more than it does customers, which is why MSFT is using the whip this time, instead of the carrot.

Edited June 19, 2007 by CBinParadise