Free Will And Karma

[chownah]

Markwhite,

Thanks for clarifying everything.

Chownah

[Plus]

As a matter of fact there's a very interesting point you've noted that is a real pondering point.

Most people naturally feel they are free to choose one option over another.

In Hinduism the material world is known as maya - illusion, and it binds people through ego and karma. That's where the feeling "I'm responsible for my own actions" comes from - from the ego. Karma doesn't act on the soul, only on matter, but looking through the ego we percieve it as related to us. We can talk about roles of karma and free will only as long as we are under the influence of ego.

Once we are free from the ego, we are liberated from maya, and the discussion on free will loses all sense.

"In Hinduism, Maya must be seen through in order to achieve moksha (liberation of the soul from the cycle samsara) — ahamkar (ego-consciousness) and karma are seen as part of the binding forces of Maya. " - from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(illusion)

[lannarebirth]

Here's a quote you might like :

'Somehow we expect spiritual truths to be complicated, understood only be keen theological minds. The sayings from the Dhammapada show us just how un-intellectual it all is. What may seem like empty platitudes are accurate instructions for leading the best life imaginable.'

Well, that depends on what your definition of "is" is. Where would the challenge be if it weren't all parsed into meaninglessness?

[Douggie Style]

Here's a quote you might like :

'Somehow we expect spiritual truths to be complicated, understood only be keen theological minds. The sayings from the Dhammapada show us just how un-intellectual it all is. What may seem like empty platitudes are accurate instructions for leading the best life imaginable.'

Well, that depends on what your definition of "is" is. Where would the challenge be if it weren't all parsed into meaninglessness?

Be careful or I might trot out my book of well worn platitudes [sort of like hair extensions for the intellect ], the current favourite is>

life is always infinitely more complex than it appears on the surface

I don't know what it means but it is good at parties when the subject is beyond me or the cheese plate is disappearing. In conclusion it just demonstrates the limits of the human mind [page 3].

Seriously, there is some very interesting stuff in the previous posts, a lot is beyond my current readings, personally I feel the essence of good writing is to reduce jargon and simply concepts which is kind of what the quote was about.

look forward to reading some more on this thread..especially the differences between karma & dharma.....

[bankei]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this new article or not, but it may be of interest,

Peter Harvey

2007

"Freedom of the Will" in the Light of Theravāda Buddhist Teachings

Journal of Buddhist Ethics, Vol 14

http://www.buddhistethics.org/14/harvey2-article.pdf

[Plus]

65 page pdf file - who's going to read it?

Can you summarise his points?

[Samuian]

"Free will" is simply a more tangible sales pitch wrapper for "want".. "I will", "I wish", "I want"....I, I, I, me, me, me... is the foundation of "free will" isn't it?

If this "free will" is the result of an entity that thinks, perceives and acts as "I", me and mine...it can't be "free will", as it is conditioned by the desires of the "I".

Observing "free will" this way, it is quite clear that it will very well cause Kamma, as it isn't "free" or unconditioned action!

Conditions which cause the phenomenalworld to appear in its peculiar way. Each of them contains an element or seed of the other, and they cannot exist without each other.

Nor black, nor white, nor Ying, nor Yang, good or bad, hot or cold - the cosmic dance of duality... the whole is what counts - beyond that, there is no kamma!

"Na itti, na itti" neither this, nor that!

[sabaijai]

"Free will" is simply a more tangible sales pitch wrapper for "want".. "I will", "I wish", "I want"....I, I, I, me, me, me... is the foundation of "free will" isn't it?

If this "free will" is the result of an entity that thinks, perceives and acts as "I", me and mine...it can't be "free will", as it is conditioned by the desires of the "I".

Observing "free will" this way, it is quite clear that it will very well cause Kamma, as it isn't "free" or unconditioned action!

Conditions which cause the phenomenal world to appear in its peculiar way. Each of them contains an element or seed of the other, and they cannot exist without each other.

Nor black, nor white, nor Ying, nor Yang, good or bad, hot or cold - the cosmic dance of duality... the whole is what counts - beyond that, there is no kamma!

"Na itti, na itti" neither this, nor that!

Exactly.