Foreign Secretary Liz Truss

 

Bloc says it will not renegotiate agreement and threatens to take ministers to court for ‘damaging’ unilateral action

 

The EU is poised to launch legal action against the UK after ministers controversially claimed an emergency loophole allowed them to scrap post-Brexit checks and standards in Northern Ireland.

 

In a surprising admission, the UK government accepted that its new Northern Ireland protocol bill would mean it did not meet its obligations under international law.

 

However, it justified the move under a principle called the “doctrine of necessity”, claiming the protocol was causing “peril” to society and politics in Northern Ireland because of the threat to the Good Friday Agreement.

 

(more)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/13/uk-risks-brexit-eu-trade-war-as-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-is-published

 

 

 

The U.K is between a Rock and a Hard place .

The "Rock" being Ireland and  the "Hard Place" being Europe .

We either antagonise  the E.U or we antagonise the Irish .

There is nothing that we can do which will appease everyone 

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K is between a Rock and a Hard place .

The "Rock" being Ireland and  the "Hard Place" being Europe .

We either antagonise  the E.U or we antagonise the Irish .

There is nothing that we can do which will appease everyone 

The UK is in a difficult place (of its own making). It's certainly true that hard-line Unionists will not accept the current Protocol, but it's less clear that this is the prevailing view amongst the general public in NI. The majority of the Assembly and business leaders favour it.

 

I'm not normally in favour of referendums but one could be held on this issue. If the vote was in favour of keeping the Protocol, there would be enormous moral and public pressure on the DUP and its' allies to accept it. A 'Reject' vote would mean the EU would come under similar pressure to renegotiate.

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We either antagonise  the E.U or we antagonise the Irish

The parties who won the largest number of seats in the recent elections in the Ulster counties oppose this action on the protocols. 
 

“A majority of members of the Northern Ireland assembly – from Sinn Féin, the SDLP and the Alliance party – wrote to Johnson on Monday saying they could not support the move because it “flies in the face of the expressed wishes of not just most businesses but most people in Northern Ireland”.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/13/uk-risks-brexit-eu-trade-war-as-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-is-published?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K is between a Rock and a Hard place .

The "Rock" being Ireland and  the "Hard Place" being Europe .

We either antagonise  the E.U or we antagonise the Irish .

There is nothing that we can do which will appease everyone 

In my view, they should simply let NI people have a free vote as to whether they rejoin Ireland or stay part of the Boris Empire. NI seems to be going backwards so perhaps becoming part of Ireland again will resolve those issue with the EU of which Ireland is  part. Let's face it NI has not much going for it really has it ?  Missed out on qualification for the 2022 world cup,  George Best passed away a long time ago and even the Titanic sunk ????

14 minutes ago, Excel said:

In my view, they should simply let NI people have a free vote as to whether they rejoin Ireland or stay part of the Boris Empire. NI seems to be going backwards so perhaps becoming part of Ireland again will resolve those issue with the EU of which Ireland is  part. Let's face it NI has not much going for it really has it ?  Missed out on qualification for the 2022 world cup,  George Best passed away a long time ago and even the Titanic sunk ????

not as simple as that.

52 minutes ago, Excel said:

In my view, they should simply let NI people have a free vote as to whether they rejoin Ireland or stay part of the Boris Empire. NI seems to be going backwards so perhaps becoming part of Ireland again will resolve those issue with the EU of which Ireland is  part. Let's face it NI has not much going for it really has it ?  Missed out on qualification for the 2022 world cup,  George Best passed away a long time ago and even the Titanic sunk ????

They can have the vote if they want it  , if the people want it, they can have it .

But you would also have to ask the Republic what they want .

Quite a few of them don't want reunification  , happy and content the way they are and don't want the loyalists causing trouble for them 

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They can have the vote if they want it  , if the people want it, they can have it .

But you would also have to ask the Republic what they want .

Quite a few of them don't want reunification  , happy and content the way they are and don't want the loyalists causing trouble for them 

Not just the loyalists, the violent section of Sinn Fein of course never want anything other than an excuse to disrupt, maim and kill.

Edited June 14, 20224 yr by Excel

1 hour ago, Excel said:

Not just the loyalists, the violent section of Sinn Fein of course never want anything other than an excuse to disrupt, maim and kill.

Feeling nostalgic much? Or has there just been a drastic shortage over the past several years of excuses "to disrupt, main, and kill"{?

9 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

We either antagonise  the E.U or we antagonise the Irish .

There is nothing that we can do which will appease everyone 

We don’t need to appease anybody. Antagonising both of them is quite acceptable. 

Who created this mess I wonder?

Vienna Convention

Article 27
Internal law and observance of treaties

A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty.

Boris had the support of just over half his party in a recent confidence vote. Combine that with the seats occupied by Labor and there's no hope in hell of him being able to get any alterations through parliament.

 

I recently heard that Theresa May's 3rd attempt to get her Brexit deal passed was the biggest defeat in the history of UK government. Maybe Boris is after that record...

Even the johnsonite cabinet now admits it would be breaking international law over this issue

 

''In a surprising admission, the UK government accepted that its new Northern Ireland protocol bill would mean it did not meet its obligations under international law.''

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/13/uk-risks-brexit-eu-trade-war-as-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-is-published

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Even the johnsonite cabinet now admits it would be breaking international law over this issue

 

''In a surprising admission, the UK government accepted that its new Northern Ireland protocol bill would mean it did not meet its obligations under international law.''

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/13/uk-risks-brexit-eu-trade-war-as-northern-ireland-protocol-bill-is-published

Couldn't see where the UK Government confirmed any such thing in that article.

1 hour ago, Excel said:

Couldn't see where the UK Government confirmed any such thing in that article.

And yet it is what has happened...

Edited June 14, 20224 yr by Bluespunk

1 hour ago, Excel said:

Couldn't see where the UK Government confirmed any such thing in that article.

It seems the Government itself has taken steps to avoid confirmation on the matter:

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/minister-avoids-confirming-if-top-legal-advisor-was-consulted-on-northern-ireland-protocol-legislation

This Bill would give the government the power to stop applying parts of the protocol; the same powers that are already enjoyed by the European Commission.

 

Article 16 allows either party to not apply parts of the protocol if certain conditions are fulfilled, (these include economic, social or environmental difficulties or the diversion of trade).

However, the British government does not have the power to activate its Article 16 rights. It must ask Parliament to do so. The point of the Bill is to give the government the power.

The European Commission on the other hand, already has the power. It can unilaterally exercise its Article 16 rights ( it did in January 2021).

Those who have argued that the UK is “breaking international law” are wrong. The Bill gives the government to activate powers that are already provided in the Protocol.

 

There is one proposal that — if activated — could be argued to amend the protocol. It allows the UK government to remove the role of the European Court of Justice from having the final say. But the ECJ is by definition the court of one of the parties to any such dispute, so that arbitration would hardly be independent. Such an amendment would require the EU accept independent arbitration, the World Trade Organisation for example.

 

Certain far reaching media

 accounts ( Channel 4 for example) make wild claims about tearing up treaties, whereas the government is merely seeking the power to apply the protocol.

The government has chosen, no been forced, to confront the fact that the EU has never had any intention of resolving issues. They have never stopped going on about regulatory alignment and following EU SPS rules, and they (the EU) control the judicial process which would arbitrate such disputes.

 

Edited June 15, 20224 yr by herfiehandbag

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

There is one proposal that — if activated — could be argued to amend the protocol. It allows the UK government to remove the role of the European Court of Justice from having the final say. But the ECJ is by definition the court of one of the parties to any such dispute, so that arbitration would hardly be independent. Such an amendment would require the EU accept independent arbitration, the World Trade Organisation for example.

Could be argued? It's obviously in violation of the treaty. Whether or not it was fair is not the question. The UK agreed to that provision. And nothing in Article 16 or elsewhere allows them to unilaterally change that.

 

5 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Those who have argued that the UK is “breaking international law” are wrong

Those posters have no idea about international law or any of the matters they rabbit into about. They simply parrot each other after reading something from their Grauniad that was quoted by some lefty Boris hating self declared eggspurt. . 

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Those posters have no idea about international law or any of the matters they rabbit into about. They simply parrot each other after reading something from their Grauniad that was quoted by some lefty Boris hating self declared eggspurt. . 

Whereas those posters proclaiming that the UK government is in compliance with international law are fully qualified experts with degrees from the world renowned institution 'The University of Daily Express'.

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

Those posters have no idea about international law or any of the matters they rabbit into about. They simply parrot each other after reading something from their Grauniad that was quoted by some lefty Boris hating self declared eggspurt. . 

I quoted the Vienna Convention, to which the UK is a signatory.

 

Would you like to try and address that with some facts?

 

 

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I quoted the Vienna Convention, to which the UK is a signatory.

 

Would you like to try and address that with some facts?

 

 

Here’s a fact for you:

The Vienna Convention does not contain anything about The Withdrawal Agreement or The Northern Ireland Protocol. 
 

What you have done is cherry pick and quoted something that you think supports your position. 

3 hours ago, RayC said:

Whereas those posters proclaiming that the UK government is in compliance with international law are fully qualified experts with degrees from the world renowned institution 'The University of Daily Express'.

As opposed to self awarded honorary doctorates from the Garouniad school of blinkered lefty studies and misinformation. 
 

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Here’s a fact for you:

The Vienna Convention does not contain anything about The Withdrawal Agreement or The Northern Ireland Protocol. 
 

What you have done is cherry pick and quoted something that you think supports your position. 

Clearly you do not understand what Article 27 of the Vienna Convention means.

 

”Article 27
Internal law and observance of treaties
A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty. This rule is without prejudice to article 46.”

 

 

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

As opposed to self awarded honorary doctorates from the Garouniad school of blinkered lefty studies and misinformation. 
 

So you’ve got no facts to use in reasoned arguments then.

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Clearly you do not understand what Article 27 of the Vienna Convention means.

 

”Article 27
Internal law and observance of treaties
A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty. This rule is without prejudice to article 46.”

 

 

No. This is only your interpretation of what you hope would be the case to prevent Article 16 being invoked. 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So you’ve got no facts to use in reasoned arguments then.

See the facts above. Your interpretation does not matter.