Eucalyptus Trees - Limit Damage

[fred1234]

IMHO, the Thai penchant for short term profit is the reason returns from eucalypt are so low.

10-20 years cycle with millable timber being the aim would I am sure be an extremely profitable operation, dependant on the species ,eucs dont start to bulk up until several years old,till then they are saplings reaching for light.

The logging ban in Thailand has caused building grade timber prices to soar, 30,000 baht seems to be the average that villagers around here pay for a tree of about 30-36 inch diam. suitable for house framing.

I recently paid 5500 baht for 15 8x1 inch rough sawn planks to floor a 10x10 foot Casa near the fish ponds ,which appears more lucrative than 800baht a tonne offered by the pulpwood sharks.

Even pulpwood plantations in Oz are 20 year cycles.

I am in favour of plantation timber farming,but only on land unsuitable for foodstuff production. Before the anti eucalypt boys jump on me consider resource utilisation.

As for cleaning up stumps after harvest,there are bulldozers available all over Thailand to make short work of removal and the stumps are a valuable saleable commodity for furniture and charcoal manufacture.

Hi ozzydom,

We're planting 100 rai of euca (on land not suitable for rubber) and I was initially told to expect something like 10,000-15,000 after 3-4 years (depending on the care, fertilizer and such). Which would be profitable (including the initial cost of buying the land).

30,000 per tree sounds better though How many years would it take to get to tree diameter of 30-36 inches, 10 or 20 years? After that, should you clear the land or can you let it grow again for the same period of time?

Any way, thanks for your post. I have yet to find a good source of information regarding euca timber farming on the internet.

Best regards,

Fred.

[ozzydom]

i ozzydom,

We're planting 100 rai of euca (on land not suitable for rubber) and I was initially told to expect something like 10,000-15,000 after 3-4 years (depending on the care, fertilizer and such). Which would be profitable (including the initial cost of buying the land).

30,000 per tree sounds better though How many years would it take to get to tree diameter of 30-36 inches, 10 or 20 years? After that, should you clear the land or can you let it grow again for the same period of time?

Any way, thanks for your post. I have yet to find a good source of information regarding euca timber farming on the internet.

Best regards,

Fred.

Fred 1234,if you do a search for Silviculture I,m sure you will find plenty of the type of info you require.

Plantation eucalypt need care and nurturing just as any crop does,especially if mill quality is your aim.A couple of things that are important to establish a good plantation.

1. Good species stock suitable for the tropics,e..Maculata and e..Ladocalyx are suited to rainfall areas less than 600 mm p/a,sourcing seed from Oz and prpogating them yourself is the shot,that way you know what your getting,No good expecting Mallee to grow into a millwood tree.

Deep ripping your land to about 75cm prior to planting out,no plant likes to get rootbound against a rockhard sub strata.

Weed control is as important as in any plant,weeds take up moisture and nutrients that your trees need.

You dont have to wait 20 years for a return,as high density planting allows you to thin out your non A-Grade trees at say 4 and 6 or 7 years , the idea is to only end up growing on your well shaped disease free trees to the larger size, when your thinning out your pulp grade trees you also prune your "keepers",this gives you a straight ,longer butt section.

From memory between 20 and 50 cubic metres per hectare per annum growth rate is what you can aim at.

Making your rows of a width to suit tractor access and 4 foot initial spacings would give you about 400 trees per rai,these you would thin out to about 100 per rai by year 7, the stumps can be treated with a mix of weedkiller and sump oil painted on the top of the cut , to stop them shooting stump , the white ants will devour them before your ready to harvest your milling grade trees.

You can then either clear fell or selectively harvest your trees over a couple of years ,Sawmillers will probably buy them standing paying you on a cubic metreage basis, with good timber being at a premium here you could put them up to the millers by tender thus getting the best price.

Cheers

Dom

[Joe Walshe]

i ozzydom,

We're planting 100 rai of euca (on land not suitable for rubber) and I was initially told to expect something like 10,000-15,000 after 3-4 years (depending on the care, fertilizer and such). Which would be profitable (including the initial cost of buying the land).

30,000 per tree sounds better though How many years would it take to get to tree diameter of 30-36 inches, 10 or 20 years? After that, should you clear the land or can you let it grow again for the same period of time?

Any way, thanks for your post. I have yet to find a good source of information regarding euca timber farming on the internet.

Best regards,

Fred.

Fred 1234,if you do a search for Silviculture I,m sure you will find plenty of the type of info you require.

Plantation eucalypt need care and nurturing just as any crop does,especially if mill quality is your aim.A couple of things that are important to establish a good plantation.

1. Good species stock suitable for the tropics,e..Maculata and e..Ladocalyx are suited to rainfall areas less than 600 mm p/a,sourcing seed from Oz and prpogating them yourself is the shot,that way you know what your getting,No good expecting Mallee to grow into a millwood tree.

Deep ripping your land to about 75cm prior to planting out,no plant likes to get rootbound against a rockhard sub strata.

Weed control is as important as in any plant,weeds take up moisture and nutrients that your trees need.

You dont have to wait 20 years for a return,as high density planting allows you to thin out your non A-Grade trees at say 4 and 6 or 7 years , the idea is to only end up growing on your well shaped disease free trees to the larger size, when your thinning out your pulp grade trees you also prune your "keepers",this gives you a straight ,longer butt section.

From memory between 20 and 50 cubic metres per hectare per annum growth rate is what you can aim at.

Making your rows of a width to suit tractor access and 4 foot initial spacings would give you about 400 trees per rai,these you would thin out to about 100 per rai by year 7, the stumps can be treated with a mix of weedkiller and sump oil painted on the top of the cut , to stop them shooting stump , the white ants will devour them before your ready to harvest your milling grade trees.

You can then either clear fell or selectively harvest your trees over a couple of years ,Sawmillers will probably buy them standing paying you on a cubic metreage basis, with good timber being at a premium here you could put them up to the millers by tender thus getting the best price.

Cheers

Dom

Very useful, clear and simple. Much appreciated.

[stateman]

After several cuttings you are then looking at over 1000 baht per rai to take the stumps out. That alone takes a big chunk out of any profit.

'd like to put in my 2cents worth on taking the stumps out.

Many years ago, I had to remove about 3 dozens huge trees from my family plot of 36rai to clear them for planting maize. Those were mature trees on the plot which came with the purchase, which we didn't want. I don't remember what trees they were. Each had a primary root as well as several secondary roots.

The poo-yai-baan suggested chopping the tree just above ground.

I didn't want to be stuck with the stumps after the tree removal. I hired 3-4 locals. I had the crew dug the soil adjacent to the tree, and maybe half-a-meter deeper, to expose the primary. Then chop the primary root to sever it. Thereafter the crew severed the secondary roots which branched out radially from the tree. I had the crew cut the secondary roots in an arc about 270degrees around the tree, leaving a quardrant where we didn't cut the root. I didn't want any accident from the tree falling on the work crew.

Pulling with a couple ropes which the crew tied to some high points on the trunk prior to the root chopping, the tree fell rather easily with the stump up and out of the ground. No tree stumps left to deal with, only what was left of the underground primary root which went vertically down. For some tree, we had to expose the covering soil to get to some secondary roots for further chopping.

The project went quicker than I anticipated. It's a successful experience.

I can't say it will work for your case, especially if you have hundreds to clear in a short time.

[stateman]

I have heard several times on ASTV5 (on the ขุดข่าว-ขึ้นเขียง program) by the 3 hosts who are all Ag grads. They said the best way to plant was to have a 3 phase program. Teak timber for 20-30 year term. Fruit trees for intermediate 4-7 year to begin harvest. Then ground vegetation for near term consumption and quick cash.

I wonder if any reader here has any similar experience to share.

[ozzydom]

I have heard several times on ASTV5 (on the ขุดข่าว-ขึ้นเขียง program) by the 3 hosts who are all Ag grads. They said the best way to plant was to have a 3 phase program. Teak timber for 20-30 year term. Fruit trees for intermediate 4-7 year to begin harvest. Then ground vegetation for near term consumption and quick cash.

I wonder if any reader here has any similar experience to share.

stateman,do you mean three distinct areas ie.one for silviculture,one for fruit and one for veggies,rice etc as in a diversified farm .??

[sibeymai]

Eucalyptus will take a good many years to produce usable bole of 30-36cm. If good quality it will fetch a premium price, but over a similar time frame (at least 20-25 years I guess) teak would probably give a better return, again subject to quality. If I had the choice of growing eucalyptus for 20-25 years or teak for 25-30 years I'd choose teak because the forecast return is much better.

Many eucalyptus plantations in Australia have rotations of minimum 20 years and there are a lot of new plantations being established now (growing trees is becoming fashionable since global warming has become such a "hot" topic) so there will be a vastly increased supply of good hardwood in 20-30 years. Overall though it shouldn't affect price too much due to ever increasing demand.

[stateman]

stateman,do you mean three distinct areas ie.one for silviculture,one for fruit and one for veggies,rice etc as in a diversified farm .??

I am not clear exactly what the recommendation was. It was mentioned that so many rai for teak, so many rai for fruits, and so many for veggies/cash crop, etc. Interesting that the hosts also mentioned that this also was what the King (of Thailand) recommended the farmers do, to get out of poverty. Example and income numbers were given. Basically the cash crop of different vegetables, etc. provides for daily needs, with extra cash from selling excess. Different fruits providing year round fruits to eat, and again for extra cash. Teak apparently will provide the windfall to enhance one's wealth. The teak maybe useful for an average person, but may not help much for a retired person!

Trying to think through on how to do it, I have mixed feelings, with no clear preference on how to do.

1. To have a stratified mixture by growing different species, emulating what happens in nature as in a tropical forest/jungle, it is probably most efficient in term of utilizing the land area. However, it may be rather difficult when you have to hop scotch to avoid other trees not yet ready for harvest to get to what you want. To clear cut the entire plot seems to be wasteful when the fruit trees may still be productive.

2. To have pure stand/monoculture planting implies a less than optimal use of land.

Maybe someone with real experience can chime in.

Eucalyptus will take a good many years to produce usable bole of 30-36cm. If good quality it will fetch a premium price, but over a similar time frame (at least 20-25 years I guess) teak would probably give a better return, again subject to quality. If I had the choice of growing eucalyptus for 20-25 years or teak for 25-30 years I'd choose teak because the forecast return is much better.

Sibeymai: I agree with you that I'd prefer teak over Eucalyptus. Few reasons: a. teak commands a good premium in Thailand for its termite-proof property - and its rarity. b. I have some questions about Eucalyptus - namely: whether the plant may be harmed by the loss of bark which seems to happen sometimes. Also I have read about some large Eucalyptus trees fell or branch torn during storm, but haven't read about that happening to teak. [Do both have similarly strong primary roots?] I don't have much experience about eucalyptus except having one huge one just outside of my residence door, and hope it will stay up while I live here! Someone who knows more about it can set me straight here.

[sibeymai]

Eucalyptus can drop branches, mostly during storm activity. Usually it will be a branch rather than the whole tree but these can be very large and heavy in a mature tree. The tree can become unbalanced afterwards and may fall completely, especially if the soil around the roots becomes waterlogged, but any tree can be felled by wind and storm in this way. Similarly, I've not heard of this with teak but it must happen from time to time.

Best not to have large branches overhanging houses, car spaces, or areas where people may frequent.

[fred1234]

i ozzydom,

We're planting 100 rai of euca (on land not suitable for rubber) and I was initially told to expect something like 10,000-15,000 after 3-4 years (depending on the care, fertilizer and such). Which would be profitable (including the initial cost of buying the land).

30,000 per tree sounds better though How many years would it take to get to tree diameter of 30-36 inches, 10 or 20 years? After that, should you clear the land or can you let it grow again for the same period of time?

Any way, thanks for your post. I have yet to find a good source of information regarding euca timber farming on the internet.

Best regards,

Fred.

Fred 1234,if you do a search for Silviculture I,m sure you will find plenty of the type of info you require.

Plantation eucalypt need care and nurturing just as any crop does,especially if mill quality is your aim.A couple of things that are important to establish a good plantation.

1. Good species stock suitable for the tropics,e..Maculata and e..Ladocalyx are suited to rainfall areas less than 600 mm p/a,sourcing seed from Oz and prpogating them yourself is the shot,that way you know what your getting,No good expecting Mallee to grow into a millwood tree.

Deep ripping your land to about 75cm prior to planting out,no plant likes to get rootbound against a rockhard sub strata.

Weed control is as important as in any plant,weeds take up moisture and nutrients that your trees need.

You dont have to wait 20 years for a return,as high density planting allows you to thin out your non A-Grade trees at say 4 and 6 or 7 years , the idea is to only end up growing on your well shaped disease free trees to the larger size, when your thinning out your pulp grade trees you also prune your "keepers",this gives you a straight ,longer butt section.

From memory between 20 and 50 cubic metres per hectare per annum growth rate is what you can aim at.

Making your rows of a width to suit tractor access and 4 foot initial spacings would give you about 400 trees per rai,these you would thin out to about 100 per rai by year 7, the stumps can be treated with a mix of weedkiller and sump oil painted on the top of the cut , to stop them shooting stump , the white ants will devour them before your ready to harvest your milling grade trees.

You can then either clear fell or selectively harvest your trees over a couple of years ,Sawmillers will probably buy them standing paying you on a cubic metreage basis, with good timber being at a premium here you could put them up to the millers by tender thus getting the best price.

Cheers

Dom

Thanks Dom. Lots of information! Also thanks for the Silviculture tip. I'm looking into this information now.

Best regards, Fred.

[chownah]

Just to clear up any possible misconception....teak is not rare in Thailand...it grows everywhere....the gov't sometimes gives away teak trees....the gov't has planted lots of them along roads and highways...its easy enough to go collect seedlings from under a mature teak tree and transplant them to wherever. Teak is not rare in Thailand.

[Gary A]

My wife has about a dozen teak trees planted in the two rai around our house. They are now about 11 years old and are at best about 6 inches in diameter.

My wife just bought about thirty 18 inch tall teak trees. She paid 2 baht each. I certainly wouldn't bother digging them up for 2 baht each.

And yes, we have volunteers growing everywhere. They are very prolific.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Gary A

[sibeymai]

Gary A, judging from what I've seen teak grows quite tall first before the trunk thickens. But 6 inches diameter after 11 years sounds like the lower end of the scale.

How much rain, if any, during the dry season ? Any fertiliser being used ? Do you know the PH of the soil ?

[Gary A]

Gary A, judging from what I've seen teak grows quite tall first before the trunk thickens. But 6 inches diameter after 11 years sounds like the lower end of the scale.

How much rain, if any, during the dry season ? Any fertiliser being used ? Do you know the PH of the soil ?

No, no fertilizer or special care. She planted them and forgot them. She planted more than that but some of them apparently died from lack of water. She likes them because the huge leaves provide some weed prevention.

[sibeymai]

Gary A, they'll still become large trees eventually, but take maybe 50% longer to grow than trees which are cared for. You'd be surprised what 5-10kg of buffalo manure twice a year will do. Water isn't a problem with trees of that age. Teak needs a dry spell to produce good quality timber.

[ozzydom]

The old saying "From little acorns mighty oak trees grow", is not quite the truth, in good practise Silviculture requires the collection of seed from selected high quality seed trees to ensure that only the best of the species is propogated and grown on.

Seeds from stunted ,misshapen parents do not grow into forest giants,in eucalypts. seed trees are usually selected by highly qualified forestry experts and marked with coloured tape and numbered for recording purposes , at the appropriate stage of pod development seed limbs are harvested (usually by shooting the limb off the tree with a .270w high powered rifle) and laid out on plastic sheets to ripen and shed their seed.

Eucalyptus seed is dissproportionate to the tree they grow into, being not much bigger than carrot seed.

The area I was involved in is very mountainous,and direct seeding was used instead of transplanting seedlings.The seeds were coated in a fertilizer then a coating of wax to resemble a small pea these were sown from aircraft then the forested area was burnt ,the wax melts leaving the seed in its fertilizer coat to germinate insitu.

[stateman]

Just to clear up any possible misconception....teak is not rare in Thailand...it grows everywhere....the gov't sometimes gives away teak trees....the gov't has planted lots of them along roads and highways...its easy enough to go collect seedlings from under a mature teak tree and transplant them to wherever. Teak is not rare in Thailand.

I will offer my opinion based on what I read, not what I actually know first hand - so bear with me if I am incorrect.

Please feel free to give your feed back.

I kept reading that through the last 3-4 decades, so much of Thailand's forests were chopped down, often with the co-operation of the officials who supposed to guard them. My wife had some first hand input from one such official who refused to be corrupted. He was threatened, shot at multiple times, and finally removed out of the area. The benefit are so large that it is very hard to stop the onslaught on these forests.

Though teak was so plentiful when I was young, I read that teak lumber is no longer available in any significant quantity, especially teak from Thailand. There were teak from Myanmar and Laos smuggled into Thailand. My wife's friend almost got into big trouble when they had a quantity of teak from Myanmar and the house was swarmed by many police and forestry people. I read that the last big patch of of teak forest is at Pa-Sak-Chol-Sit (north of Saraburi), the site which many politicians (especially from the last government) salivated to effect the chop down with the pretense of building a dam nearby.

Through the years, there were spurts of attempts to regrow them, under various campaigns, both by the government and the people. I have seen some smaller patches of teak trees, and I believe you'll see them at a lot of places. However, I understand that it is considered rare now, especially when teak timber is discussed. This implies there may be teak trees, but not mature ones in large quantity for timbering. I hope people who has the time and place to do it, will help grow them back.

Nowadays when there is flashflood after a rain storm, it is commonly cited that it was due to the forests being denuded. In the old time, in the north like CM, teak forest was everywhere.

[sibeymai]

Everyone outside BKK can do their bit to grow trees, especially teak. It requires almost no care (at least after the first few years) and will grow anywhere in Thailand.

So many times I see all the cleared areas up country where just a handful of trees would make a big difference. If everyone with a few square metres of space planted a tree it would be a huge accomplishment. Especially in Isaan where the continuing deforestation will further reduce rainfall in the area.

On this forum I'm probably preaching to the converted....but I'll bet that for all of us living upcountry in villages and farms there are vacant areas where we could easily plant a few more trees.

[chownah]

Just to clear up any possible misconception....teak is not rare in Thailand...it grows everywhere....the gov't sometimes gives away teak trees....the gov't has planted lots of them along roads and highways...its easy enough to go collect seedlings from under a mature teak tree and transplant them to wherever. Teak is not rare in Thailand.

I will offer my opinion based on what I read, not what I actually know first hand - so bear with me if I am incorrect.

Please feel free to give your feed back.

I kept reading that through the last 3-4 decades, so much of Thailand's forests were chopped down, often with the co-operation of the officials who supposed to guard them. My wife had some first hand input from one such official who refused to be corrupted. He was threatened, shot at multiple times, and finally removed out of the area. The benefit are so large that it is very hard to stop the onslaught on these forests.

Though teak was so plentiful when I was young, I read that teak lumber is no longer available in any significant quantity, especially teak from Thailand. There were teak from Myanmar and Laos smuggled into Thailand. My wife's friend almost got into big trouble when they had a quantity of teak from Myanmar and the house was swarmed by many police and forestry people. I read that the last big patch of of teak forest is at Pa-Sak-Chol-Sit (north of Saraburi), the site which many politicians (especially from the last government) salivated to effect the chop down with the pretense of building a dam nearby.

Through the years, there were spurts of attempts to regrow them, under various campaigns, both by the government and the people. I have seen some smaller patches of teak trees, and I believe you'll see them at a lot of places. However, I understand that it is considered rare now, especially when teak timber is discussed. This implies there may be teak trees, but not mature ones in large quantity for timbering. I hope people who has the time and place to do it, will help grow them back.

Nowadays when there is flashflood after a rain storm, it is commonly cited that it was due to the forests being denuded. In the old time, in the north like CM, teak forest was everywhere.

I would say that large stands of old growth teak are rare in Thailand especially when compared with how common they were 50 or 100 years ago. I would not say that teak wood is rare. It is expensive. Teak boards are not commonly available at lumber stores but any store selling a wide variety of wood flooring will have teak flooring. The front doors on my house are teak and my house is not an expensive one....teak front doors are fairly common. The decorative panels in my front porch railing are made of teak and this is a common decoration in Thai homes. Also houses with the fancy trimmings usually have them in teak. Rich people are still building teak houses. Alot of temples have teak doors and carved teak shutters. Teak furniture is widely available. My brother in law built a house with large teak trees used as pillars for the front. These trees are big enough that if they were milled they would produce good quality boards.

I guess the use of teak in Thailand is about like the use of oak in the US. Large stands of old growth oak are rare (perhaps non-existant) and no one builds houses from oak but floors, furniture, trim, etc. are commonly available in oak. Oak is not considered to be rare in the US. It is expensive compared to soft woods though. Oak boards are not commonly available in lumber stores in the US.

[stateman]

I would say that large stands of old growth teak are rare in Thailand especially when compared with how common they were 50 or 100 years ago. I would not say that teak wood is rare. It is

expensive. Teak boards are not commonly available at lumber stores but any store selling a wide variety of wood flooring will have teak flooring. ........

I guess the use of teak in Thailand is about like the use of oak in the US. Large stands of old growth oak are rare (perhaps non-existant) and no one builds houses from oak but floors, furniture, trim, etc. are commonly available in oak. Oak is not considered to be rare in the US. It is expensive compared to soft woods though. Oak boards are not commonly available in lumber stores in the US.

I happen to know the owner of the enterprise which supply a lot of teak flooring in Thailand. His plants are in Laos and the timber resources are in Laos! Laos timber transformed into products. Lucky for the Thais to still have Laos timber available to them.

I am glad teak is still used for various housing components as you mentioned. Unfortunately teak wood lumber for entire housing construction is no longer a common thing, except for the rich.

I agree with you about large stands of old growth oak situation in the US. Such decline also happens to redwood and sequoia, as they fall prey to development. But they are still around and it is a joy to drive by the tall redwoods and the large sequoias. I hope they, as well as teak stands, will be standing for a long time.

I am glad folks in this thread are interested in planting these tall trees. I hope there is a lot more interest among all of us. It is not only good for personal finance, it is also good for mother earth!

[ozzydom]

Read a heartening story recently of a policeman.I think from Surin area who received an award from His Majesty The King.

The man spends all his spare time propogating and planting trees and shrubs along the roadsides in his area ,all out of his own pocket.

[Joe Walshe]

My wife recently purchased 200 rai with 2-3 year old eucalyptus trees on it. I have read many threads on the subject of Eucalyptus trees and would prefer to get rid of them. I am hoping to limit soil damage by fertilising several times a year and cutting trees when they reach maturity in 2 or 3 years. This is the first plantation of Eucalyptus trees so I'm hoping soils won't be too degraded.

Any ideas on;

How best to limit damage to soil?

How best to replendish soil, now and later?

What other type of trees to provide diversity and income?

we already have another farm with large fish ponds, Mangoes, coconuts, Cows, chickens and wide range of native trees. Wildlife, insects and edible plants thrive there.

hate to be a bore. But my original post had to do with limiting damage to 200 rai of land. Any comments on above would still be appreciated. Joe

[stateman]

Read a heartening story recently of a policeman.I think from Surin area who received an award from His Majesty The King.

The man spends all his spare time propogating and planting trees and shrubs along the roadsides in his area ,all out of his own pocket.

Seems like each country has their version of "Johnny Appleseed" - like John Chapman of the US.

[chownah]

My wife recently purchased 200 rai with 2-3 year old eucalyptus trees on it. I have read many threads on the subject of Eucalyptus trees and would prefer to get rid of them. I am hoping to limit soil damage by fertilising several times a year and cutting trees when they reach maturity in 2 or 3 years. This is the first plantation of Eucalyptus trees so I'm hoping soils won't be too degraded.

Any ideas on;

How best to limit damage to soil?

How best to replendish soil, now and later?

What other type of trees to provide diversity and income?

we already have another farm with large fish ponds, Mangoes, coconuts, Cows, chickens and wide range of native trees. Wildlife, insects and edible plants thrive there.

hate to be a bore. But my original post had to do with limiting damage to 200 rai of land. Any comments on above would still be appreciated. Joe

I don't know what kinds of damage the trees make so I can't comment on that but I can comment on how to build up the soil...but...exactly how to go about it depends on what else you intend to do with the land, how much work and resources you want to expend on improving the soil, how much water is available, and what is the quality of the soil you have to start with. Not knowing these things I can only offer very general advise...and that is to grow nitrogen fixing plants, usually legumes. How you grow them and which ones to grow depend on the things I just mentioned.

An example of how different expectations can call for different legume crops for soil improvement is that I have two particular legumes which I am developing for soil improvement. One of them is not very palatable to cows so I grow this in places and at times of the year when the cows have access to a plot of land because it is unfenced....because it is not very palatable they will not eat it and it will have a chance to grow before I plow it in to enrich the soil. I have another legume which cows love to eat and is very nutritious for them so I plan to grow this on plots of land and at the times of years when cows will benefit from eating this as well as improving the soil....in fenced plots so I can keep the cows out until the crop is ready for consumption and then I can let them in to eat it.

Chownah

[ozzydom]

My wife recently purchased 200 rai with 2-3 year old eucalyptus trees on it. I have read many threads on the subject of Eucalyptus trees and would prefer to get rid of them. I am hoping to limit soil damage by fertilising several times a year and cutting trees when they reach maturity in 2 or 3 years. This is the first plantation of Eucalyptus trees so I'm hoping soils won't be too degraded.

Any ideas on;

How best to limit damage to soil?

How best to replendish soil, now and later?

What other type of trees to provide diversity and income?

we already have another farm with large fish ponds, Mangoes, coconuts, Cows, chickens and wide range of native trees. Wildlife, insects and edible plants thrive there.

hate to be a bore. But my original post had to do with limiting damage to 200 rai of land. Any comments on above would still be appreciated. Joe

Joe, I think you are worrying unduly,instead of reading threads, look for scientific studies regarding silviculture and in particular growing eucalyptus as a plantation crop.

Studies have been done in Thailand and published by the relevant authorities .

Eucalyptus is usually planted on land that is of marginal value for growing food crops if this particular 200 rai fits this catagory then the eucalyptus is probably the most profitable crop to grow there.

What you eventually want to use the 200 rai for is paramount, remembering it may not be suited to other crops,Im sure the person who planted it did so after weighing up the pro,s and con,s.

Contrary to what you may read on threads ,eucalyptus do not poison your soil ,they are a large living plant and as such draw a lot of nutrition to grow, regular fertilizing replaces these nutrients.

Most soils in Thailand are already degaded so there is no reason to believe degredation will be any worse than after any crop.

If after harvest you dont wish to do a second sucker growth crop ,simply push the stumps into windrows to sell for charcoal manufacture, plough the land and leave fallow for a few months, then it depends on what you want to do from then on ,a crop of Ruzzi or Guinea as stock feed if your into cows.

Im not really in favour of sowing such a large area to legumes as it ties up the land for to long,legumes are great ,but their best use is when sowed between rows of existing plantings as a nitrogen fixer then turned under while green,this is practised where the use of highly nitrogenous fertilizers can effect fruiting.

My advise would be to ask the local Agricultural extension officer to pay you a visit and advise you on future uses for the land,their advise is free.

Cheers

Dom

[chownah]

If after harvest you dont wish to do a second sucker growth crop ,simply push the stumps into windrows to sell for charcoal manufacture, plough the land and leave fallow for a few months, then it depends on what you want to do from then on ,a crop of Ruzzi or Guinea as stock feed if your into cows.

Joe Walshe,

If you decide to do this I recommend instead of planting straight ruzzi or guinea that you look into a pasture blend containing legumes....it will produce a more nutritious pasture (I think) and will also add fertility and be better at improving the soil than a straight grass pasture I think.

Here is a good resource for finding out about grassland plants including ruzzi, guinea, and legumes:

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/Gbase/Default.htm

Chownah

[Joe Walshe]

If after harvest you dont wish to do a second sucker growth crop ,simply push the stumps into windrows to sell for charcoal manufacture, plough the land and leave fallow for a few months, then it depends on what you want to do from then on ,a crop of Ruzzi or Guinea as stock feed if your into cows.

Joe Walshe,

If you decide to do this I recommend instead of planting straight ruzzi or guinea that you look into a pasture blend containing legumes....it will produce a more nutritious pasture (I think) and will also add fertility and be better at improving the soil than a straight grass pasture I think.

Here is a good resource for finding out about grassland plants including ruzzi, guinea, and legumes:

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/Gbase/Default.htm

Chownah

Thanks Chownah. I imagine that info. will be useful for a lot of others also.