How Can I Build A Cheap Shop On Someone Else's Land?

[Ulysses G.]

I've rented a vacant lot because it is in a perfect place to expand my current business, but I don't want to spend too much money on building a shop and I know next to nothing about such things. The shop needs to look clean and comfortable - not like a shack - but I want to build it as cheaply as possible.

What kind of materials should I use for a one story shop that is not quite the size of two shops side by side?

Edited June 25, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[stevemiddie]

Paper machier?

sorry. No idea. How long do you want the building to last for?

[chownah]

How hard do you want it to be to break into?

[Ulysses G.]

It should not fall apart for at least 10 years and I want it to be fairly difficult to break in. There will be little that thieves want - maybe a stereo or computer - but I've had a lot of problems with competitors destroying my property in the past.

[chownah]

corrugated sheet metal siding on the exterior and on the roof?

120 x 120 cm cement boards for interior finish?

using a sparse wood frame supported on precast concrete posts?

concrete floor?

concrete blocks are cheap too and can be used with the precast posts?

[Ulysses G.]

This may be a little too cheap for what I had in mind chownah, but thank you. It gives me a starting point and I didn't have ANY idea before.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[quiksilva]

How about a prefab office?

LGV Engineering

[chinthee]

If you want cheap, secure and portable you could consider a 40' ocean container. I know it sounds off-putting, but you could dress up the outside etc.. Problem is no windows. Lots of people using these like this now.

[Farma]

There will be cheaper ideas but this would be how I would build if I was in your situation. It would be secure and last a while. You could also work a deal with the land owner for lower rent as the building will be more then just a tin shack.

Concrete floor

Concrete uprights (I believe 4 metres between posts is the norm)

Steel roof frame (welded from C section steel)

Concrete blocks for walls. (Approx 5 Baht per block) Render and paint the walls.

Large roof tiles (approx 250 B per piece)

Wood batons to attach the tiles to the steel frame

Ceiling made from handing aluminium frame with fibre ceiling squares.

I would add in a toilet, hand basin and floor tiles. (Homepro has hand basin/toilet sets for 5,000 Baht) If the budget permits I would place staycool insulation on the ceiling.

Edit to get rid of a smiley.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Farma

[Ulysses G.]

The rental contract says that we can't take away any building that we put on the land, so I think that the container is out as far as moving it when out rental period is up.

A bathroom and sink is not needed as we have two shops side by side immediately across the street with two toilets and a bunch of sinks.

Farma's idea is closer to what I was looking for, but I'm not sure how much of the day the shop will be in sunlight and I don't want it to be uncomfortable. It is surrounded by taller buildings, but I noticed that yesterday there was sun on it from morning till about 2PM. I'm not sure how that changes depending on the time of year. Will ceiling made from handing aluminium frame with fibre ceiling squares and staycool insulation on the ceiling keep the place cool with a lot of ventilation?

[Ulysses G.]

Concrete floor

Concrete uprights (I believe 4 metres between posts is the norm)

Steel roof frame (welded from C section steel)

Concrete blocks for walls. (Approx 5 Baht per block) Render and paint the walls.

Large roof tiles (approx 250 B per piece)

Wood batons to attach the tiles to the steel frame

Ceiling made from handing aluminium frame with fibre ceiling squares.

A contractor offered to build us a one story 9 x 11 m building without the shutter doors, electric system, or floor tiles and using these materials for 220 thousand baht.

It is more than I really want to spend because I'm afraid the landlord will eventually jack up the rent so that we can't afford it if the building looks too nice, however, is it a fair price?

By the way, this will be used for an annex to a used bookshop. If I do it any cheaper, will it look too ugly to go inside?

Edited June 26, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Farma]

I can’t give an idea on what you’ve offered although it sounds about right. We’ve looked at a scenario like you mention a couple of years ago. The land owner didn’t want to sell the land and didn’t have the funds to build plus the lease didn't allow removal of the building at the end of the lease.

The land size was bigger and more materials were needed. Our costs were going to be a lot higher than you were quoted.

3 options were suggested at that time and before we agreed to rent the land. We ended up taking a different route.

1. We would build 3 shophouses and have the use of the prime shop (corner position and larger than the other 2) for free for the period of the lease. 10 years was offered.

2. The land owner would share the cost of building and we would pay rent slightly higher than land rental.

3. We would build ourselves and pay the usual land rent.

Regarding insulation, we’ve found the staycool was worth installing on the shop we bought.

[Ulysses G.]

Thank you for your imput and suggestions for materials. I have NO experience with this kind of thing at all, so it really helps a LOT!

[chownah]

Just a thought.....go out and find some cheaply made building...perhaps a house, garage, storage building, student dormatory, etc. and ask who built it and what they would charge....or find a building that meets with your specifications and then take a contractor there and ask them how much for something like that.

Chownah

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks for another good idea.

[SnakeBite]

Either make it like a mobile home on wheels or you could do the same kind of idea as that with 2 twenty foot containers and then dress up the outside to cover everything to look like a building. Seems your landlord is just out to get someone to spend loads on putting in a building that you can't take with you when you leave. I would find another property to rent that you could put a portable building on.

As far as windows go, they can be cut out of the sides of the containers to make windows or to put A/C in.

Edited June 27, 2007 by SnakeBite

[wolfmanjack]

And containers that are not fixed to a foundation would not be considered a building so you could take them with you without violating the lease.

How long is the lease ?? If it is 3 years or less then you could consider the container idea. If it is 10-30 years then consider the cost of the building as part of the rent.

[chownah]

have you considered a yurt?

[Ulysses G.]

Seems your landlord is just out to get someone to spend loads on putting in a building that you can't take with you when you leave.

That is corrrect, but I don't have much choice.

We started from nothing and built a thriving business in a part of town that had no bookshops. We did a lot of marketing and advertising and eventually our spot became the place to go for books.

Eventually, a parasitic neighbor - another bookshop - moved in right next door hoping to capitalize on our success without doing any work themselves. Unfortunately for them, they moved in on the side that was opposite to most of the customer traffic and most of the time they get very few customers. Who would move in behind another very successful business of the same type anyway?

Anyway, not being clever enough to move away and build their own business, they just sit there hoping to get in front of us somehow and were trying to get this plot of land when I outmaneuvered them and rented it instead.

The truth is that I want to expand so that we can carry more books and it is large enough and directly across the street from our main store and also there is no other place to rent on the other side in front of us, so it makes building worthwhile.

I still don't want to put too much money into it though.

What is a "yurt"?

Edited June 27, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[sleepyjohn]

What is a "yurt"?

It's a sort of a round Mongolian tent thing. What it lacks in permanency it just might make up in it's ability to attract the eye of the punter.....free advertising.

Actually might not be so very mad. I used to visit Santa Cruz CA most years which was the epicentre of the 198? earthquake. There was a great bookshop called the Santa Cruz Bookshop. It got flattened in the quake and for the next ten years it became the Santa Cruz Booktent. There's strong sun and strong rain there as well. U could have infra red detectors to turn on the lights/alarm if anyone goes near. Very cheap at B&Q. Haven't seen them here.....has anyone?

If not it sounds like you want exactly what they build everywhere......the cheapest possible....but a bit wider.

Edited June 27, 2007 by sleepyjohn

[chownah]

The yurt was sort of a joke but they are relatively cheap to build and portable actually.

Have you considered a teepee?

Lots of cheap bamboo poles available!!! Cover it with bufallo skins like the native americans used to do I guess.

or maybe you could put a teepee on top of a yurt!!!! that would be eye catching!!!

Have you considered that if you build a building there then when your lease is up the owner will open a book store?....and how long do you think it would take your landlord to break your lease and take over? Maybe I'm just paranoid.

Chownah

Edited June 27, 2007 by chownah

[Ulysses G.]

I'll probably go for something very simular to what Farma suggested.

Luckily, the lease is for a long time and Thai people don't usually have much luck with used book stores, so that is not a big worry.

I understand paranoia, but I have 6 other bookstores, so I am not that worried about competition. I just don't want the parasite who for many years has been vandalizing my property, destroying our advertising and spreading false rumors about me in order to damage our business to be across the street looking right in at us every day.

[cmsoulbrother]

Hi UG

Why don't you consider a natural building? They can be very cheap, will stay a lot cooler than most cheap concrete and metal style buildings, and can even be a point of interest attracting customers to your store.

I don't know if you've ever noticed the building I put up next to my restaurant (It has a grass roof, so it tends to blend in pretty well) but I built a 60 square meter home for about 40 000b, finished, plumbing and electricity included. I did earthbags, with a grass roof, but there are a lot of really interesting and even practical ideas that you might consider.

I don't know if you have any interest in this kind of thing, but if you do; stop by. I love this stuff, and would be happy to help in any way that I could.

John

Edited June 28, 2007 by cmsoulbrother

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks John

I didn't notice the other building, because I always wondered where your family lives. I'll walk by and check it out.

Please hide the BBQ ribs!